Tim: On this map, Although not shown Corinth is diagonally across the highway from Syracuse mainly on the south side of the curve. Corinth Estate (is or was) on the north side of the highway. Hope this helps, Vic Tim Anderson wrote: > Try the Grenada Road Map at > http://www.skyviews.com/grenada/grenadamap.html > I found Syracuse and Baillies Bacolet but not Corinth. Nevertheless, > this is the most detailed map I have found of Grenada on the web. > Corinth does appear on the Grenada map at > http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/nytmaps.pl?grenada > Tim > > On Wed, 28 May 2003 15:03:00 +0000 (UTC), ldanderson@sbcglobal.net > ("Lenora Anderson") wrote: > > >Thanks so much I hope I can find a map also. I have a question since this > >place is new to me... Is this a matter of plantations there , for spices > >and cocoa like the Dougalston Estate of ours in years past? Was this the > >main commerce in past origins? I am trying to find how Peter Doyle Brown > >started from there and was he always an agriculturist? so many questions... > >so little time! > >Lenora > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Alan and Maureen" <alanandmo@btopenworld.com> > >To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:43 AM > >Subject: Re: Corinthe Estate Grenada > > > > > >> Hi Lenora, > >> Corinth Estate is near the village of Corinth, surprisingly. If you take > >> the road south out of St Davids passing Maulti, the next village is > >Corinth > >> and Syracuse. If you reach Baillies Bacolet you have gone too far. > >> The last time we were in Gnda we bought a super map of the island for a > >few > >> dollars which shows all the estates. Probably available from The Grenada > >> Tourist Board or more specifically from the Lands and Surveys Dept, > >Ministry > >> of Agriculture, Lands, Forestry and Fisheries, Botanical Gardens, St > >> Georges. > >> Hope this is of some help, Alan. > >> > >> > >> > >> ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > >> all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at > >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > >> Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked

Hello CJ, I dont know if I can help you but if your U.E.L (United Empire Loyalist) kin came to Canada, I might. I live right in the heart of U.E.L. country and the records here are very well documented. The only thing is that if they went directly from the US to the Caribbean, there may not be a record here. But if they came to Canada and lived here any length of time , or belonged to any of the Loyal Corps. such as Jessups Rangers, then I may be able to get you some info. Let me know exactly what you are looking for. Tony Figueroa CJ <CaribbeanLegacy@aol.com> wrote: Does anyone have resources or data concerning American Loyalists coming to the Caribbean? I am specifically looking for ship names with rosters of the individuals on the ship and where they embarked and dis-embarked. I'd appreciate any guidance. CJ ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked Researching FIGUEROA,WHORMS, DEPASS, ABSALOM, INNERARITY, MARKS(MARQUES), RITCHIE from Jamaica, CARVALHO from Jamaica, Brooks --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

I stumbled across this last week, which may be of interest. I have no idea if the book is still in print. *********************************** Who Was Who 1897-1916: ALEXANDER, Arthur Harvey, b. 25 Feb 1843, Grenada, W.I. e. s. of Charles Alexander of Montreuil, Grenada, & Margaret Drysdale, y. d. of Andrew Douglas of Jodburgh N.B. m. 1867 Isabella, e. d. of Rev. James Gibson, D.D. of Avoch, Rosshire N.B. Died 29 Dec 1905. Author of "History of East Indian Immigration to Jamaica". Ernest M. Wiltshire Friends of the Barbados Archives 38 Inglewood Place, Ottawa, Ontario Canada K1Y 4C7

Lenora, I am not sure if it is you that was asking but my wife thinks Corinth Estate would have grown sugar cane, either for sugar or rum. Alan.

Thanks,, I "assumed it might be rum as they had that on the other plantations.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan and Maureen" <alanandmo@btopenworld.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:38 AM Subject: Corinth estate > Lenora, > I am not sure if it is you that was asking but my wife thinks Corinth Estate would have grown sugar cane, either for sugar or rum. > Alan. > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked

Sonja, That is a very good question..i dont' know how many copies, if any, of that book are still around. Maybe one of the listers can answer that one. Or you may try Adams Book Store in St Vincent. Edgar Adams or his staff may have some insight into that. The email address is: adamsbooks@caribsurf.com, phone: 784-457-2278, fax: 784-485-6945. If you get some positive feedback on this, please share the info with the list, since I know that several people were interested in the same publication. Re: your ancestors - did any of them come to America between 1892-1924? If so, you may be able to glean some family info from the Ellis Island site. I have made tons of connections to my Hazell relatives through that site. They moved around a lot more than we might like to give them credit for. These old Hazell names really have me going...so many Johns and Hercules...it gets confusing if you're not careful. the Daniel Hazell I have on my list was born in the 1870s and he had a brother (not father) named John. His grandfather may have been John also, but I still have to prove that one. I think that you should share your family query with the list again. I found that if I do that every now and again, that I get different responses. My last desperate plea brought a research angel to me from our treasured bank of knowledgeable and helpful listers and I'm so much more the wiser and I was able to fill in gaping holes of missing information on my tree. The search continues, Cheryl *************************** Hi Cheryl, An old email from you to the Caribbean-L list mentioned a "Fred Hazell who had his grandfather's book finished and published on the anniversary of J.H. Hazell and sons in 1945" - is this book available anywhere? Still looking for any info on gdad Daniel Hazell from Bequia, born around 1870 (as far as I know) - his dad's name was John Hazell, as you already know I have so very little to go on with. Took note of info in Cindy's email also.. Hercules being the name of one of my uncles, coincidence or else (smile). Thanks, Sonja _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Try the Grenada Road Map at http://www.skyviews.com/grenada/grenadamap.html I found Syracuse and Baillies Bacolet but not Corinth. Nevertheless, this is the most detailed map I have found of Grenada on the web. Corinth does appear on the Grenada map at http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/nytmaps.pl?grenada Tim On Wed, 28 May 2003 15:03:00 +0000 (UTC), ldanderson@sbcglobal.net ("Lenora Anderson") wrote: >Thanks so much I hope I can find a map also. I have a question since this >place is new to me... Is this a matter of plantations there , for spices >and cocoa like the Dougalston Estate of ours in years past? Was this the >main commerce in past origins? I am trying to find how Peter Doyle Brown >started from there and was he always an agriculturist? so many questions... >so little time! >Lenora >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alan and Maureen" <alanandmo@btopenworld.com> >To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:43 AM >Subject: Re: Corinthe Estate Grenada > > >> Hi Lenora, >> Corinth Estate is near the village of Corinth, surprisingly. If you take >> the road south out of St Davids passing Maulti, the next village is >Corinth >> and Syracuse. If you reach Baillies Bacolet you have gone too far. >> The last time we were in Gnda we bought a super map of the island for a >few >> dollars which shows all the estates. Probably available from The Grenada >> Tourist Board or more specifically from the Lands and Surveys Dept, >Ministry >> of Agriculture, Lands, Forestry and Fisheries, Botanical Gardens, St >> Georges. >> Hope this is of some help, Alan. >> >> >> >> ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >> all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ >> Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked

Of course Roger will agree that the ordeal described below in 1903, has to be seen in a context of medical misdiagnosis and incompetence of some doctors, while the one that correctly diagnosed and treated the patient saved the day. This has been a constant in the history of medicine, from its primitive origins to the present. We are told by the statisticians that there is probably 800,000 cases of medical mistakes in prescriptions in the US, with one-tenth that amount in the case of Canada. Cases are also legion of Medical mistakes during surgery, which has led to widespread medical malpractice litigation in the US and to a lesser extent elsewhere. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger McCracken" <sarsol@gippsnet.com.au> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:51 PM Subject: RE: Doctors of Physic and Surgery in the BWI This extract of a letter from Port of Spain, Trinidad dated December 1903 might add something to this subject. "We are just coming through a very trying and anxious time. Poor little Sheila had a fall from the steps and a day or two afterwards took ill with what we thought was the flue [sic]. We doctored her "a la creole" with rum & candle grease etc. but as she got no better we called in Pollonais who treated her for bronchitis & cured her. We told him she was complaining of pains in her left knee & thigh & told him of the fall but he pooh poohed the idea & gave us a harmless linament to rub her. She limped about the bed room for 2 days & took ill again. He came again with reluctance & said she had malaria. The pains in her leg continued very badly & she had a temp. all the time of 105o. Pollonais came once & never returned, and knowing he was in charge of the case, we could not call in another Dr. while he was supposed to be attending. Anyway, I could stand it no longer & called in Dr. Morolejo, who at once diagnosed it as paratyphoid "A" and "B" (2 sorts). The funny part was that altho' he was treating her for it, and the blood test showed she had it (according to Drs at least) yet he himself told me he was not sure she had it. Peggy told him about the fall (and also of another fall which she had outside, of which a policeman told her) but he also pooh poohed the idea of any dislocation & said that the leg was a case of infantile paralysis due to the typhoid & that she would have to be in splints for 2 years!! So he suggested a damned fool of a Dr. called Campbell - an apache - who had an electrical apparatus for treating paralysis & Peggy (being stunned at the news) did not tell him no, unitl when he returned 2 days after. But he said he had already made arrangements with Campbell to come & could not put him off. When the buffoon came he said "Oh, it's tuberculosis of the hip she has"etc. Etc. Even Morolejo himself refused to believe this. Amyway when Morolejo went down the Islands I left the case in Campbell's hands & Campbell did not turn up for 5 days although Sheila would screech for hours with pain. Peggy rang up his office and dispensed with his services. We called in Milne, who confirmed what Morolejo said, that is that she should be X-rayed. Unfortunately Dr. Arthur Reid was down the Islands also. But when he came up he X-rayed her leg & showed the greatest interest in the case. The X-ray showed what Peggy said was the metter all the time - a common dislocation of the hip; and Read gave us a long certificate showing that there was no disease at all of the bone, but a dislocation due to external injury. Next thing was an operation to put the leg in place. Drs. Scheult, Read & Milne performed it, but it was discovered that as such a length of time had elapsed, there had been "adhesions" i.e. A false joint was being formed, which the Drs were afraid to try and break down, because they might injure her bones, which, being an infant, were soft. The alternative was an operation with the knife, but they were loth to perform so delicate a job, which requires a specialist. So they suggested the "gradual extension" process, i.e. Weights tied to herlegs, over a pulley, in the hopes that the adhesions would break down & the bone would get in place, but a faint hope. Sheila's leg was ¾ inch shorter than the other. It was tried & when they came again to operate 3 weeks later they were over-joyed to find that their fondest expectations had been more than realized, that what they had longed for as possibly might happen, did in fact happen and that the thigh bone- though not actually inside the socket - was yet in the proper position for this to happen in time. The 3 of them were like school-boys over the result but they had to make assurance doubly sure by taking another X-ray picture & when this was taken, it was found that the bone was in position. But the trouble is, that Sheila is not to press or kneel on the floor for 3 weeks again, until the sinews are properly knit - and this is the hardest part, for when the poor little thing found that her foot was not tied down with weights, she refused to stay in bed any more. She now wanders about the house on her bum, with the aid of her 2 hands & we can push her about on her pram. The 3 weeks will be up in about 10 days time. Roger McCracken > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Saunders [mailto:Jim-Saunders@shaw.ca] > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 5:27 AM > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Doctors of Physic and Surgery in the BWI > > > Hi. Just to add a little imformation to the medical dicsussion. I > come from > a long line of doctors (I'm not one though) in the UK, BWI and Canada. The > proper training for doctors in the new world was limited to a very few > places and both the New World and Old World med schools were very > expensive. > It was common-place to apprentice to a doctor for a year or two > and then you > could set up your own practise. The flaw in that method was you could only > be as good as the doctor who taught you and the medical profession did not > begin to be controlled until the late 19th century, although > country doctors > were still apprenticed until around the turn of the century. > Jim > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island > bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 19/05/2003 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 19/05/2003 ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES What is a Mailing List? http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html

Daniel Hazel (one 'l') of Bequia is the name of the father Claude Hazel, who arrived at Ellis Island on the S.S. Saga from Barbados, April 30, 1917. Frances Hazel, Cordelia Davis, and Joseph Ollivierre, also of Bequia also arrived on the same ship, as did Owen Wallace. Claude Hazel was 23 and a seaman. His US destination was the residence of his brother Osman (or Orman) Hazel in Perth Amboy, NJ On Wed, 28 May 2003 07:12:40 +0000 (UTC), TamureTatay@aol.com wrote: >Hi Cheryl, > >An old email from you to the Caribbean-L list mentioned a "Fred Hazell who >had his >grandfather's book finished and published on the anniversary of J.H. Hazell >and sons in 1945" - is this book available anywhere? > >Still looking for any info on gdad Daniel Hazell from Bequia, born around >1870 (as far as I know) - his dad's name was John Hazell, as you already know I >have so very little to go on with. Took note of info in Cindy's email also.. >Hercules being the name of one of my uncles, coincidence or else (smile). > >Thanks, > >Sonja

Cindy, Some more references. Thanks for the comment on John La Grenade [others would be very welcome!]. One of my interests is the same - the flow of people from Galloway and NW England to the WI. John ST VINCENT: Le Gall, John, Esq, nd: JleG of St V marr a daughter of Dr Allan Maclean of Ayr & Isle of Mull; Le G not buried at Ayr - merely ref at Ayr [Ayr Auld Kirk MI]. Beattie, John, died 6 Feb 1804 age 21 'at Clare Valley, St V'; son of James B in Todhillwood [Canonbie Ch MI]. Robson, Christopher, died 16 May 1832 age 26 'on the Bostock Park Estate, St Vincent'; son of Arthur R [d June 1820 at Glinzierhall age 6..] [Canonbie Ch MI]. Alexander, James, died 29 May 1878 age 40 'late of St V'; son of Jas A, cabinet maker, Troon [d 27.10.67 age 76] [Fullarton Ch MI]. Calvert, John, died 1803 age 25 'at St Vincent'; son of John Calvert [d 12.1.1822 age 71] [Lancaster Par Ch MI]. McClean, James, died 12 July 1840 age 54 in St Vincent; son of James McC, farmer in Low Auchneel [d 15.3.1847 age 68] [Leswalt Ch MI]. Wilson, Thomas, died 30 July 1801 age 19 'at St Vincents'; son of Walter W of Cullate, Moffat [d 29. 3.1809 age 72] [Moffat Ch MI]. Maitland, George, died Sept 1809 age 49 in the island of St Vincent; son of Patrick Maitland 'late at Garthland' [d 17.8.1791 age 73] [Stoneykirk Ch MI]. Roy, Andrew, died 29 July 1871 age 32 'at St Vincent'; son of James R [d 12.7.1892]; bro David = Post Messenger to Straiton, Kirkmichael & Maybole [Straiton Ch MI]. McMillan, Daniel, died 1830c age 28 in St Vincent, WI; son of John McM [d 13.1.1835 age 88]; bro John = draper, Newcastle upon Tyne [d 5.7.1838 age 33 Whithorn] [Whithorn Ch MI]. Campbell, John [Mrs], gave birth to a son at St Vincent 1846 [Wigtown Free Press 1846; 12/03 1f]. Mackenzie, W, died 1863 at 'Kingston, St Vincent' [WFP 1863; 09/04 4g] ----- Original Message ----- From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:32 AM Subject: medical & old deaths > ... John, thank you for posting these deaths in Grenada from your > Scottish notes. I've been trying to pinpoint the number of > Dumfries-Galloway-Ayr crowd heading towards St. Vincent to Grenada for > awhile and these really help. Thanks. Just for a bit of trivia - John > La Grenade's father, Louis, was the first planter to have nutmegs > although a "white" planter was later given credit in 1843.

Hi Lenora, Corinth Estate is near the village of Corinth, surprisingly. If you take the road south out of St Davids passing Maulti, the next village is Corinth and Syracuse. If you reach Baillies Bacolet you have gone too far. The last time we were in Gnda we bought a super map of the island for a few dollars which shows all the estates. Probably available from The Grenada Tourist Board or more specifically from the Lands and Surveys Dept, Ministry of Agriculture, Lands, Forestry and Fisheries, Botanical Gardens, St Georges. Hope this is of some help, Alan.

Thanks so much I hope I can find a map also. I have a question since this place is new to me... Is this a matter of plantations there , for spices and cocoa like the Dougalston Estate of ours in years past? Was this the main commerce in past origins? I am trying to find how Peter Doyle Brown started from there and was he always an agriculturist? so many questions... so little time! Lenora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan and Maureen" <alanandmo@btopenworld.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:43 AM Subject: Re: Corinthe Estate Grenada > Hi Lenora, > Corinth Estate is near the village of Corinth, surprisingly. If you take > the road south out of St Davids passing Maulti, the next village is Corinth > and Syracuse. If you reach Baillies Bacolet you have gone too far. > The last time we were in Gnda we bought a super map of the island for a few > dollars which shows all the estates. Probably available from The Grenada > Tourist Board or more specifically from the Lands and Surveys Dept, Ministry > of Agriculture, Lands, Forestry and Fisheries, Botanical Gardens, St > Georges. > Hope this is of some help, Alan. > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked

I received correspondence from a man a few years ago who said his family now in Calcutta descended from a nonIndian carpenter from St. Croix who had settled in India.

Hi Cindy, You saw these memorials where? in the bequia anglican church? I didn't have this information so I have taken note of these people and hope that they tie in somehow. But if they didn't mix with the blacks at that time then they probably don't. I actually also found my grandfather's Hazell niece still living on Mustique so I've got to chat with her before it's too late. My source that led me to her says she is a wealth of information. She may be able to fill in some blanks for me. She should be in her 70s-80s now. I've been going crazy just trying to figure out who was the father of my great great grandfather Henry (George) Hazell. His baptizm appears on the slave list for July 31, 1831. His mother was a woman named Rachael and their owner was J.P. Hazell or could it be John L. Hazell. Funny thing is, Henry was baptized with the surname George. Hmmmmmm...makes me wonder what was really going on here. I have a type written copy of the original, so there could have been a typo in the middle initial for John Hazell. I'm going to see what information I can find in the London Slave Registry. When Cyril and Sydney Adams went to Philly to see their grandfather in 1914, that's the first and last I've bumped into anything concerning Henry George Hazell. He would have been 83 yrs old at the time. I'll let you know what returns I get from the T71. Yes, I did get the name Giraud from you. I remembered it and although it was a long shot, I thought I'd put it out there to Aline in Guadeloupe. I hate this groping in the dark feeling I'm experiencing right now, but I guess it's part of the territory. Wish I was living in London. The people at the PRO would get tired of seeing me.(smile) Thanks, Cheryl *************************************** Hi Cheryl, Did you get Giraud (Grenada) from me or are you on to something new? Also Carpenter Street is all I have for you .... I'd get a phone book and look up Adams, Hazell and Ollivierre and see if any of them have a Carpenter Street address. It was an Adams that gave me that info. If I see him in a couple of weeks I'll inquire further. In the meantime, I'm sure you have this, but I wrote it down anyway (Anglican Church, Bequia): In Loving Memory of John Hercules Hazell who died at the Island of Mustique. 22nd November 1886, and was buried at St. Georges Cathedral, Kingstown, aged 70. In Memoriam Hecules Hazell who died in September 1833 at the age of 84 years, and Elizabeth, his wife, we're among the early settlers in this island. Their son, Hercules Hazell died in September 1848 aged 63 years. and with his parents is buried in this Churchyard. Elizabeth, his wife, died in August 1869, aged 83 years and is buried in St. Georges Churchyard, Kingstown. This tablet is erected to their memory by John H. Hazell in 1876. IF you do the math, Hercules Hazell was born 1749 - won't be on these islands. Hope there's something new here. best wishes, Cindy _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Hi Cheryl, An old email from you to the Caribbean-L list mentioned a "Fred Hazell who had his grandfather's book finished and published on the anniversary of J.H. Hazell and sons in 1945" - is this book available anywhere? Still looking for any info on gdad Daniel Hazell from Bequia, born around 1870 (as far as I know) - his dad's name was John Hazell, as you already know I have so very little to go on with. Took note of info in Cindy's email also.. Hercules being the name of one of my uncles, coincidence or else (smile). Thanks, Sonja

Hi Cheryl, It was not at all unusual for some-one to carry a personal birth name and have a different one given at Baptism. This also happened in the British Colonies and right up to the 1920's and 30's. My father, my mother and my aunt found that they had different personal names at birth and christening when they applied for passports in the 60's. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nneka X" <cheryl_nneka@hotmail.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:12 PM Subject: Bequia Hazells I've > been going crazy just trying to figure out who was the father of my great > great grandfather Henry (George) Hazell. His baptizm appears on the slave > list for July 31, 1831. His mother was a woman named Rachael and their owner > was J.P. Hazell or could it be John L. Hazell. Funny thing is, Henry was > baptized with the surname George. Hmmmmmm...makes me wonder what was really > going on here. I have a type written copy of the original, so there could > have been a typo in the middle initial for John Hazell.

Hi Richard, This is a great idea. You have done a great job so far. Maybe now people who are researching East Indians in the West Indies can also link up with your site and contribute the names of the people on the ships, as well as the names of the people who went to the various plantations. You might want to add Genealogy Research relating to East Indians in the West Indies done so far. There is Shamsu Deen's Book for Trinidad. You might want to have a link to a review of it and his email. He might still have copies for sale too. Keep up the good work! Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard B. Shiva-Ram Cheddie" <Yuddh1@hotmail.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 8:44 PM Subject: Ship Transporting East Indians to St. Croix WEBSITE > www.geocities.com/yuddh1 > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > >

Does anyone have information regards Parish of St. David in Grenada??? I have a letter stating that our grt. grandfather , Peter Doyle Brown , was from Corinthe Estate- Parish of St. David...I am unfamiliar with this amd never see it mentioned on our site.. This is probably the begininng of my Brown lineage.. There is also mention a a George Leonard Brown, A George Maucauly Brown . I believe there were supposed serveral brothers of Browns emmigrated to Grenada.. We have been unable to define the exact location. Any suggestion wold be appreciated. Lenora

Thanks Tian,, now this brings up matters even more in my searches of the deFreitas family, as I now have deSouza, and other names such as Menendez., which I believed to be a surname of a family member. etc.. the possibilites are endless I see. And not nessarily "inherited" names. Lenora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tian Uddenberg" <tian@shaw.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 7:34 PM Subject: Naming patterns among Portuguese > Listers, > With permission of the writer, I am posting this short account of naming > patterns in Portugal at present. > The writer is D. Kleber, and it was posted at Madeira Exiles -L > I found it informative. > Tian > > In answer to the question: "Can someone explain a bit about Portuguese > naming patterns?" > D. Kleber replies: > > In Portugal/Madeira: > 1. Multiple surnames are common. Two or three is normal. One surname > is > odd. I don't know anyone with just one surname up here in Northern > Portugal. I have a 29 year old friend named Isabel Maria dos Santos > Barbosa > de Oliveira Lopes Pereira da Silva. (Pereira da Silva comes from her > husband.) Her family is from Lisbon. > > 2. If I am not mistaken, prior to 1920 it wasn't even a legal > requirement to > have a surname. (circa 1920 "Regulamento relativo à identificação dos > portadores de Bilhete de Identidade) That is, your legal name could > just be > MARIA... and nothing else. After 1920, once you either reached > adulthood or > requested an official document, you had to "choose" a family name. It > could > be any of the surnames that your family had carried and/or given you. > Using > the example above, you can see that if Isabel was one of your relatives > AND > the others had names like hers then you had many choices for your own, > personal family name: It could be Barbosa, it could be Barbosa de > Oliveira, > perhaps just Lopes, etc, etc. > > 3. It was, and is, common for mothers to give their children their > surnames > as well as their father's surname. Thus the usual minimum of two > surnames. > Often they also throw in some other favorite surname from a > grandparent. > > 4. Devotional names are popular, too. Maria das Dores (literally Mary > of > the Pains, one of my personal favorites), Ana de Conceição, Maria de > Jesus, > Maria dos Santos... These devotional names are used in addition to > surnames. > > 5. The de/do/da isn't really part of the name, unless it is sandwiched > between two other names. That is, "de Freitas" is officially just > "Freitas" > (But "Nunes de Viveiros" is officially "Nunes de Viveiros.") > > 6. Nowadays it seems that siblings up here in Northern Portugal > *USUALLY* > all have the same "main" (usually the father's?) surname, as well as a > few > other surnames which may vary between siblings. In the old days, > siblings > could, and did, have totally different surnames. That is, no common > surname > was required among all siblings. > > 7. UPON ENTERING AMERICA: (a) most Exiles chose to use just one of > their > surnames. Our "Nunes de Viveiros" became NUNES in America, even though, > on > Madeira, Nunes de Viveiros identified a very specific family group... > very > different from someone named just Nunes. (b) Sometimes the "de/da/do" > was > incorporated into the surname. DeFreitas = de Freitas. (c) And, of > course, > the spellings often changed considerably. > > This can all be very confusing but I hope that this helps somewhat. > > In a subsequent posting, the question was asked "Why would syblings of > the same family have different surnames?" > The reply from D. Kleber: > > I can only give you my opinion, because I don't "know" the > reason... > > In the USA, going back at least two centuries, you can often use a > single > surname to track your family. It was inherited through the fathers and > connoted (varying amounts of) familial importance. > Example: My grandfather, after a nasty property dispute, renounced his > family and changed his surname. This was considered the gravest insult > and > says a lot about the depth of dispute. Such was the power of a surname > in > the USA in the early 1900s. > > In Portugal, particularly prior to 1920, I get the impression that a > surname > was used to honor your relatives and/or bless a child. They were not > used > to "track" a family. You will definitely find siblings with different > surnames and you might even find that sometimes your Chris Nunes de > Sousa is > legally recorded as Chris Nunes or perhaps even Chris Sousa. It makes > things tougher for us budding genealogists but it's a lovely idea, once > you > get used to it. > > (I think I read somewhere--but I could DEFINITELY be wrong as I can't > find/quote a source--that you had to have a family link to any surnamed > used. That is, you could give your child a surname from a parent, > grandparent, perhaps great-grandparent but not some random surname. > Anyone > know more about this?) > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked

Hi Cindy, Thanks. I did know about scurvy and the British Navy, but did not even think that Lind was a Scot. Regards, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "cindy kilgore" <minke@wcvt.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 4:32 PM Subject: medical & old deaths > > > ... Richard, in case you don't know this title, i think you'd find it > interesting (and anyone else in the medical talk here) - Limeys by > Davis Harvie, Sutton Publishing, 2002. It's about the Scottish naval > surgeon, James Lind, and his discovery of a cure for scurvy. >