Let me add my welcome to you Chris. I am researching Ottley in Barbuda--talking about letting you get up to speed, I'm acting as if you landed with your feet churning!!! I know that George We(a)therill Ottley, Esq. was in Barbuda in 1809 taking care of the sale of property for a friend. Have you any info of Ottleys being born in Barbuda during that time, before or after? With the help of you and many others, I have gone a long way in my research, and have even photos of my gggrandmother, Elizabeth Downes from Barbados, and know that in 1853 she married my gggrandfather, Thomas Henry Taitt [born a slave at Foster Hall]. His mother was a Clarista Downes and his father was Henry Taitt, baptised in 1819 as an adult at Foster Hall Plantation, St. Joseph, Barbados. I have Taitt cousins right here in the Washington, D. C./Maryland area. I am still working on the Ottley, Grosvenor, and Hunt lines. Again, we are glad that you are back. Nevilla E. Ottley Dean de Freitas wrote: > Welcome back Chris! > > > On Friday, June 2, 2000, at 10:59 AM, christopher codrington wrote: > >> Hi listers >> >> After great travail (still ongoing) I now have a new internet >> connection and >> e-mail address and hope to hear from each of my much missed >> correspondents >> and associates from Carib-L >> >> Special thanks to all of you who have written me letters.....a few >> really >> touched me and I had a moment of "I did that??????) in a very special >> way....thanks >> >> Hey James! Hey WhaleWoman! Hi Dorothy Hi .....(senior moment dominant!) >> >> How are each and all? >> >> How goes the list? >> >> It will take time to come up to speed, but hope you all will indulge >> me in >> some catching up >> >> Kind regards to all >> >> ChrisCod >> > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > all messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Before posting a query, see if the question has already been asked > >

This information comes from P.D. Curtin's book, "Atlantic Slave Trade" p. 221. Obviously, this is not the only version available, but Curtin is a heavyweight on the subject (along with W.E.B. DuBois, R.R. Kuczynski, E. Donnan, Davies, H.S. Klein, etc) and I like the way the data is presented: PROJECTED EXPORTS OF THAT PORTION OF THE FRENCH AND ENGLISH SLAVE TRADE HAVING IDENTIFIABLE REGION OF COAST ORIGIN IN AFRICA, 1711-1810. Senegambia (Senegal-Gambia)* 5.8% Sierra Leone 3.4% Windward Coast (Ivory Coast)* 12.1% Gold Coast (Ghana)* 14.4% Bight of Benin (Nigeria)* 14.5 Bight of Biafra (Nigeria)* 25.1% Central and Southeast Africa (Cameroon- N.Angola)* 24.7% * The countries in parentheses are rough approximations to help you find the location on a modern map. Now I will try to relate the above regions to selected ethnic groups. I've collected this data from a variety of sources, and I can't vouch for all of them. The central question for me is always, "Were these people called by that name during that time in that place?" I don't know how to show the nomadic and semi-nomadic groups, but I included several below anyway. SENEGAMBIA: Wolof, Mandingo, Malinke, Bambara, Papel, Limba, Bola, Balante, Serer, Fula, Tucolor SIERRA LEONE: Temne, Mende, Kisi, Goree, Kru. WINDWARD COAST (incl. Liberia): Baoule, Vai, De, Gola (Gullah), Bassa, Grebo. GOLD COAST: Ewe, Ga, Fante, Ashante, Twi, Brong BIGHT OF BENIN & BIGHT OF BIAFRA Combined (sorry): Yoruba, Nupe, Benin, Dahomean (Fon), Edo-Bini, Allada, Efik, Ibibio, Ijaw, Ibani,Igbo(Calabar) CENTRAL & SOUTHEAST AFRICA: BaKongo, MaLimbo, Ndungo, BaMbo, BaLimbe, BaDongo, Luba, Loanga, Ovimbundu, Cabinda, Pembe, Imbangala, Mbundu, BaNdulunda Other possible groups that maybe should be included as a "Ancestral group" of African Americans, and in what region: Fulani, Tuareg, Dialonke, Massina, Dogon, Songhay, Jekri, Jukun, Domaa, Tallensi, Mossi, Nzima, Akwamu, Egba, Fang, and Ge. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Sara Weiss" <ksara@tesco.net> Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 00:37:01 +0100 From where do you get this information that slaves to the Caribbean were from other countries than Ethiopia? I was given this information from a lady working for the Zionist Federation of Gt Britain - she must have resourced this or wouldn;t have come out with such a bold statement surely? also you are quite wrong. When we went to Israel time and again we were asked by Ethiopian Jews there if my husband was Ethiopian. We were also stopped by and Ethiopian lady in Sussex who asked us to take her photo. I told her of our experiences in Israel and she said, "Yes, you look entirely Ethiopian." How do you work that out then, if you state that Ethiopia is too far inland. In Israel, the Falashas are known for their hard work, their cleanliness and their zeal for the Torah. This describes exactly my husband and his father! I went to an Ethiopian party there and was accepted as one of them, and this makes me wonder a lot about my own ancestry with the likeness between my husband and myself.# One last thing. Here in Morden there are a lot of Ghanains. I know some personally - many many of them look entirely Jewish and, to boot, they have many Jewish customs apparently. the same with Nigeria to an extent. The facial characteristics of Ethiopian Jews and Ghanains though, is not alike as far as I can ascertain. The Ethiopian look is quite long faced, pointed sort of chins and very almond eyes. They are frequently quite thin or lean, I never saw a fat Ethiopian. What do you think and can hyou answer my question about your source of information. Thanks for replying so quickly by the way! Sadie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nevilla E. Ottley" <clasebon@erols.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:44 PM Subject: Re: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries > Sara, > > An interesting letter. I am married to a Gentleman from Ghana, West > Africa. His father was also from Ghana, and his mother was a Cherokee > Indian and African American mix from North Carolina. An old African > relative of my husband met me some time ago, and saw a large photo of my > parents on the wall. His comment was "These people are Ghanaian." > > I smiled and said, "No, my parents are from Trinidad, and and my mom's > parents were from Barbados." (I was so naive at that time about genealogy). > > He responded: "Young lady, it doesn't matter where they were born, > their roots are from Ghana, their facial features and bone structure > resembles our people very much." > > Actually most of the slaves that were brought to the Caribbean were from > West African countries, including Ghana, Nigeria, the Gold Coast, Togo, > etc., not from Ethiopia (that country is too far inland). So who knows, > since many people tell me I resemble my husband, we may be related from > a couple of centuries ago. In genealogy, all things are possible. > > Nevilla E. Ottley > > Sara Weiss wrote: > > >I'll tell you something else. Although I am mad keen to find out my Jewish ancestry, possibly thro DNA - but unlikely according to Richard, thanks Richard for saving me time and trouble - I have two black ancestors too. > > > >Accounts for my very frizzy hair and love of music mayhaps! Reading "Roots" by Alex Haley has now, more than this website, made me start to wonder about them. One was a slave who bought his freedom - West Indies or America I do not know. The other was from the Caribbean but I do not know where. My husband and I are similar in looks and he and some of my children have the same features. His whole family are from Anguilla BWI and so one wonders if there is a Black connection . Are we descended from the same line. > > > >All slaves in the Caribbean came from Ethiopa - Christian ?Muslim and Jewish (Falasha). But, he is also Jewish, so we may have descended from the same person, way way back, in Israel. But then how could the appearance be so similar after 3,000 years!!! The black line is more probable. But the likelihood of my ancestors coming also from Anguilla is almost prepostrous. Who knows? You'd need to be rich to find out!! > > > >One just keeps these things under one;s hat but nothing much can be done to find out more - unless one is the subject of some far out TV documentary!!! > > > >However, I am just pleased to be part of all this, in a sort of 'inner' way. Know what I mean? > > > >Sara Weiss > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <richwyn@idirect.com> > >To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:44 PM > >Subject: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries > > > > > >>Richard Allicock sent you this MSNBC News Link: > >> > >>Message: > >>Sara Weisss re-appearane on the DNA Issue was quite timely. Here is an MSNBC account of some-one trying to use DNA to fill the gaps in his reearch. There is also a link to the African Genetics for Genealogy company, Afrigenesis for those who are interested. Richard > >> > >>** DNA tackles a familys mysteries ** > >>DNA testing is adding a scientific twist to the search for family roots, one of the worlds most popular pursuits. Follow MSNBCs Alan Boyle on the genetic trail. > >> > >>http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_email.asp?/news/682153.asp > >> > >>______________________________________________________________________ > >>Check out the hour's top stories on MSNBC.com <http://www.msnbc.com> > >> > >>MSNBC does not confirm the E-mail address of the sender of this MSNBC News Link. For your information, the sender's IP Address is: 207.46.245.18 > >> > >> > >>==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > >>For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > >> > > > > > >==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > >Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been asked on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can search the archives at http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. > > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES What is a Mailing List? http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Sara, An interesting letter. I am married to a Gentleman from Ghana, West Africa. His father was also from Ghana, and his mother was a Cherokee Indian and African American mix from North Carolina. An old African relative of my husband met me some time ago, and saw a large photo of my parents on the wall. His comment was "These people are Ghanaian." I smiled and said, "No, my parents are from Trinidad, and and my mom's parents were from Barbados." (I was so naive at that time about genealogy). He responded: "Young lady, it doesn't matter where they were born, their roots are from Ghana, their facial features and bone structure resembles our people very much." Actually most of the slaves that were brought to the Caribbean were from West African countries, including Ghana, Nigeria, the Gold Coast, Togo, etc., not from Ethiopia (that country is too far inland). So who knows, since many people tell me I resemble my husband, we may be related from a couple of centuries ago. In genealogy, all things are possible. Nevilla E. Ottley Sara Weiss wrote: >I'll tell you something else. Although I am mad keen to find out my Jewish ancestry, possibly thro DNA - but unlikely according to Richard, thanks Richard for saving me time and trouble - I have two black ancestors too. > >Accounts for my very frizzy hair and love of music mayhaps! Reading "Roots" by Alex Haley has now, more than this website, made me start to wonder about them. One was a slave who bought his freedom - West Indies or America I do not know. The other was from the Caribbean but I do not know where. My husband and I are similar in looks and he and some of my children have the same features. His whole family are from Anguilla BWI and so one wonders if there is a Black connection . Are we descended from the same line. > >All slaves in the Caribbean came from Ethiopa - Christian ?Muslim and Jewish (Falasha). But, he is also Jewish, so we may have descended from the same person, way way back, in Israel. But then how could the appearance be so similar after 3,000 years!!! The black line is more probable. But the likelihood of my ancestors coming also from Anguilla is almost prepostrous. Who knows? You'd need to be rich to find out!! > >One just keeps these things under one;s hat but nothing much can be done to find out more - unless one is the subject of some far out TV documentary!!! > >However, I am just pleased to be part of all this, in a sort of 'inner' way. Know what I mean? > >Sara Weiss >----- Original Message ----- >From: <richwyn@idirect.com> >To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:44 PM >Subject: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries > > >>Richard Allicock sent you this MSNBC News Link: >> >>Message: >>Sara Weisss re-appearane on the DNA Issue was quite timely. Here is an MSNBC account of some-one trying to use DNA to fill the gaps in his reearch. There is also a link to the African Genetics for Genealogy company, Afrigenesis for those who are interested. Richard >> >>** DNA tackles a familys mysteries ** >>DNA testing is adding a scientific twist to the search for family roots, one of the worlds most popular pursuits. Follow MSNBCs Alan Boyle on the genetic trail. >> >>http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_email.asp?/news/682153.asp >> >>______________________________________________________________________ >>Check out the hour's top stories on MSNBC.com <http://www.msnbc.com> >> >>MSNBC does not confirm the E-mail address of the sender of this MSNBC News Link. For your information, the sender's IP Address is: 207.46.245.18 >> >> >>==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >>For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ >> > > >==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been asked on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can search the archives at http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. > >

Dear Sara, I have long been shouting in the wilderness, that slave ships/slaves did not arrive in the US via non stop cruses, but were first sold in in Caribbean. Seasoning is not something that is mentioned, or hardly ever mentioned when Slavery is discussed. That was a period of breaking the newly captured slaves. If they had the misfortune to survive the crossing, they were first broken in the islands. The misconception of the Triangle trade is that slaves were acquired in Africa, ships stopped in the Caribbean for provisions and rum and then proceeded to the US. The truth is , newly captured slaves were sold in the Caribbean, and 'Seasoned' slaves were bought, then taken to the US for resale. Every African American has an African Caribbean connection. Records show that that St. Thomas and Curacao were major Seasoning Markets, as the Dutch, owned plantation on these islands, and owned the Forts in Africa, and the ships they did not have to use a middleman. So the possibility of a caribbean connection is not that far-fetched. A Jewish connection is also possible as Brandenburg Company which managed these stations were started and financed by Portuguese Jews from Bergen and Gluckstadt. In genealogy one must keep an open mind and expected the unexpected. Ann ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Sara Weiss" <ksara@tesco.net> Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:04:05 +0100 I'll tell you something else. Although I am mad keen to find out my Jewish ancestry, possibly thro DNA - but unlikely according to Richard, thanks Richard for saving me time and trouble - I have two black ancestors too. Accounts for my very frizzy hair and love of music mayhaps! Reading "Roots" by Alex Haley has now, more than this website, made me start to wonder about them. One was a slave who bought his freedom - West Indies or America I do not know. The other was from the Caribbean but I do not know where. My husband and I are similar in looks and he and some of my children have the same features. His whole family are from Anguilla BWI and so one wonders if there is a Black connection . Are we descended from the same line. All slaves in the Caribbean came from Ethiopa - Christian ?Muslim and Jewish (Falasha). But, he is also Jewish, so we may have descended from the same person, way way back, in Israel. But then how could the appearance be so similar after 3,000 years!!! The black line is more probable. But the likelihood of my ancestors coming also from Anguilla is almost prepostrous. Who knows? You'd need to be rich to find out!! One just keeps these things under one;s hat but nothing much can be done to find out more - unless one is the subject of some far out TV documentary!!! However, I am just pleased to be part of all this, in a sort of 'inner' way. Know what I mean? Sara Weiss ----- Original Message ----- From: <richwyn@idirect.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:44 PM Subject: MSNBC News Link: DNA tackles a familys mysteries > Richard Allicock sent you this MSNBC News Link: > > Message: > Sara Weisss re-appearane on the DNA Issue was quite timely. Here is an MSNBC account of some-one trying to use DNA to fill the gaps in his reearch. There is also a link to the African Genetics for Genealogy company, Afrigenesis for those who are interested. Richard > > ** DNA tackles a familys mysteries ** > DNA testing is adding a scientific twist to the search for family roots, one of the worlds most popular pursuits. Follow MSNBCs Alan Boyle on the genetic trail. > > http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_email.asp?/news/682153.asp > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Check out the hour's top stories on MSNBC.com <http://www.msnbc.com> > > MSNBC does not confirm the E-mail address of the sender of this MSNBC News Link. For your information, the sender's IP Address is: 207.46.245.18 > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been asked on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can search the archives at http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

CENSI MVG

Patrice and DeRoche exist in Carriacou. > > From: "Nneka X" <cheryl_nneka@hotmail.com> > Date: Sat 14/Jun/2003 04:47 GMT > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Surnames Patrice, Cordice and Deroche > > Which other islands besides Bequia in the Grenadines were the surnames > Patrice, Cordice and Deroche most prevalent? Does anyone have a clue? I'm > researching into a connection with Ollivierres. I'd like to know if anyone > has access to the St Vincent courthouse? records. There is a will there of > one Joseph Ollivierre circa 1810-1815. He may have also gone by another last > name, but I'll have to find that out. Someone had seen the will before but > didn't get a chance to glean all the important information from it. This > will greatly help in the Ollivierre search to establish who the actual > patriarch of the Bequia Ollivierre families was. > > Thanks > Cheryl Hazell > Toronto, ON > Hazell Ollivierre Snagg Derrick Adams Bonadie > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been asked on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can search the archives at http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. > > > __________________________________________________________________________ Join Freeserve http://www.freeserve.com/time/ Winner of the 2003 Internet Service Providers' Association awards for Best Unmetered ISP and Best Consumer Application.

if possible I would like a copy of the survey or info on how to get it regards dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Watson" <family.watson@utoronto.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:02 PM Subject: Gavin Smith's 1815 Survey of Grenada Estates > I remember someone on the list once saying they had this list. I have most > of it, but I'm missing some from the very beginning, due to bad copying. > > I found the map that went with the list when I was last in Grenada, but it > was too fragile to make the journey north. > > Could whoever, if they read this, get in touch with me off list so that I > may ask them to fill in my blanks. It is only a few and would not be an > onerous task - I'm trying to clear up "things I've been meaning to d.' > > David Watson > david.watson@canada.com > > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. > >

Welcome Back Chris, We have missed your wisdom & input to the various topics & look forward to future suggestions & advice. Cheers, merril Bourne, New Zealand

After about a month reading this list I have greatly increased the extent of my family knowlege in Jamaica and in England. I have been digging into both the 1901 and 1881 census (censuses?) and found lots on my English family. Is there a separate section for Jamaica that I haven't found yet? I have found no references to Jamaica at all. Only found traces elsewhere of Saunders (from Pembroke) and Phillippo (from Norfolk) in Jamaica. Jim Saunders

Which other islands besides Bequia in the Grenadines were the surnames Patrice, Cordice and Deroche most prevalent? Does anyone have a clue? I'm researching into a connection with Ollivierres. I'd like to know if anyone has access to the St Vincent courthouse? records. There is a will there of one Joseph Ollivierre circa 1810-1815. He may have also gone by another last name, but I'll have to find that out. Someone had seen the will before but didn't get a chance to glean all the important information from it. This will greatly help in the Ollivierre search to establish who the actual patriarch of the Bequia Ollivierre families was. Thanks Cheryl Hazell Toronto, ON Hazell Ollivierre Snagg Derrick Adams Bonadie _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

I was on the phone today promoting St. Croix as a weekly stopover for Universal Airlines. We have cheap jet fuel. We have a jewllery industry there that could further process Guyana gold, diamonds and precious stones. There are also efforts to develop woodworking. There is a only a small local Virgin Islands food market which could utilize crops from Guyana. The Guyana Telephone Service already belongs to a USVI corporation. In the history books it says that in the 1920s a few Cruzans moved to Guyana though I am not aware of specific examples.

Inspite of the title above, used mainly for archival purposes, I am going to say very little about the nutmeg or Grenada but more on Sir Joseph Banks (1743-1820) and his predecessors, because much of what Banks was credited with was more due to his predecessors and contemporaries efforts than his own, but his own was also substantial. We should point out that Banks was the son of a Lincolnshire Doctor and a Member of Parliament. Banks was brought up as the son of a rich man and went to Oxford in 1760 where he showed considerable talent for the natural sciences. He inherited his father's fortune in 1764 and put it to good use philanthropically helping others to do research and to help him to collect plant and insect specimens, and even supported anthropological research around the world. Nor was he himself untravelled. In 1766 he made his first trip to Newfoundland and Labrador bringing back a fine collection of plants and insects. He was also on Captain Cook's First Voyage (25th Aug.1768 - 12th June, 1770) to observe the Transit of Venus, on which much was observed and collected for Botanical and Horticultural purposes. In 1772 Banks went to Iceland with some of the same assistants he took on Cook's voyage, and returned by the Hebrides and Staffa. This was another scientific expedition. In 1781 he was ma! de a Baronet, in 1795 he received the Order of the Bath, in 1797 he was admitted to the Privy Council But in regard to Banks and the West Indies we have to locate his efforts and the efforts of others within the context of the History of Science and Agriculture, Botany and Horticulture in the Age of Enlightenment. No less a person than Sir Francis Bacon credited as the founder of the modern scientific method had proposed that nature should be tortured to reveal its secrets. Quite sadistic language to be sure, but scientific ends were preferable to the torture of people who revolted from economic and political hardship. To what ends should such a torturing of nature be put? Nothing less than the improvement and betterment of the needs of mankind. This was the union of science and practice in a fundamental sense long before Marx and the Marxists and socialist utopias, or Communist Utopias. The efforts of Sir Joseph Banks and others before him, contemporaneous with him, and others after him, can be situated in the the Age of Enlightenment, generally taken to be from 1715-1799. In typical British pragmatic fashion however, this Age of Enlightenment was expressed as the "Age of Improvement." Here again, I use the term British deliberately, because it was our unsung heroes the Scots who took the lead in such Improvement Ideology and Practice. Nor is that surprising seeing the limitations on the Scots in terms of land quantity and land quality, and property ownership. Whereas the English had lots of land to play around with, the Scots had far less arable land, and the little that they had, had to be improved to yield more and more and better and better crops. Meanwhile the English ever since the Norman invasion had to concentrate on Military and Naval defence, and to be able to project power across the channel to France. This is why Britain, mainly England, developed their Army and Navy whether it was in Naval Architecture or consantly changing its milirary technology to outpace changes in Military and Naval technology on the Continent. Self-defence and the projection of power determined English economic and political development, while attention to economics in its widest sense determined Scottish development. Hence it is no surprise that it was a Scotsman who wrote the foundation work of modern economics, namely Adam Smith and his "Wealth of Nations"; or that it was a Scotsman who set up the Bank of England; or that we find Scotsmen floating companies for colonisation and trade in the West Indies with the Scotland company and the Darien Company. The Scots also set the Improvement practical philosophy in train and this caught on! in England with a gusto by means not of the State, but through Clubs or Societies based on the Landed and Commercial (mercantilist) Interests. The Society that did the most in England, before and in co-operation with Sir Joseph Banks, was the Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufacture and Commerce, founded in 1754. Its predecessor was the short-lived the Anti-Gallican Society, founded in 1745, so named for being expressly anti-French, to France, its products and it culture. This was formed in 1745 "to promote British Manufactures, to extend the commerce of England, to discourage the introduction of French modes and oppose the importation of French comoditiies". Simialr mercantilist sentiments were sounded by the Society of Arts (the shortened title of the one above) in its first Volume of its Transactions in 1783, proposing to develop commodities within Britain and the Empire wherever they could to benefit Britain and the Empire, in terms of manufactures and agricultural commodities. These commodities had to be imported at great expense from foreign nations, so substitutoion with Colonial Products would be! nefit British commerce and "Navigation" (meaning shipping). It was a programme of import substitution expected to benefit both Britain and the Colonies. Banks had joined the Society of Arts in 1761. but as early as 1757, Banks was being praised for his researches on vegetables. By 1778, Sir Joseph Banks was President of the Royal Society and connected to Kew Gardens and with connections to the British Board of Agriculture. It is these two agencies that obscure the role of the Society of Arts which frequently made recommendations to Banks and the latter to the Board. In the case of the the Board and the promotion of the cultivation of new species, Scotsmen were not found lacking, in the persons of Sinclair a President of the Board before Lord Sommerville, and Lord Bute the King's First Minister.. But to get back to the Society of Arts, it was the first to offer premiums or prizes for the cultivation of desired species any-where in the empire. In 1758 the Society offered premiums/prizes for the cultivation of useful plants that can be grown in the then British Colonies of Georgia and the Carolinas. This set the precedent for a whole series of Imperial Prizes. It was the Society that encouraged the establishment of a Botanical Gardens in the Carolinas between 1758 and 1761, which in turn set the precedent for the establishment of other Botanical Gardens in the Empire. It was the Society of Arts which offered a premium/prize for the transplantation of bread-fruit from Tahiti to the West Indies; of cochineal insects to Jamaica from Spanish dominions; for growing hemp within the empire to meet the needs for ropes etc. in the British Navy. The very establishment of the Botanical Gardens in St. Vincent was owed to a premium/prize offered by the Society of Arts in 1762. The Society of Arts offered rewards to "any one who would cultivate a spot in the WEST INIDIES, in which plants, useful in medicine and profitable as articles of commerce might be propagated." The St. Vincent Botanical Gardens later became the center of Sir Joseph Banks' world-wide net-work for the transplantation. In 1763, the Society suggested that tea from China which was paid for with good money, might be grown in West Florida. The Society also advocated the growing of Sago in Georgia using techniques brought back from China. The Society also advocated the production of Silk in the colonies.. Sir Joseph Banks joined the Society of Arts in 1761, and was instrumental to the effort to transplant bread-fruit to the West Indies. After receiving a letter from the Governor of St. Vincent on the subject of Bread-fruit, Banks persuaded the Society of Arts to offer a prize for the transplantation of Bread-fruit to the West Indies in 1777. The prize was won by Capt. Bligh in 1793 after a voyage that was prompted and organised by Sir Joseph Banks. Banks became the President of the Royal Society, 1778, and had been around the world with Captain Cook on the first Voyage. While he was prepared to go on the second, and all was packed and arranged, Banks could not go. But it should be noted that on one of these trips, it may have been the first, (See Diaries of Capt. Cook) groves of a species of Nutmeg, (not Myristica), grown by natives in the New Hebrides, was examined. We can assume that specimens were also taken, as this was the purpose of the trip. Banks had even personally paid for his entourage of Botanists, and illustrators, to draw the species which they felt would perish on the journey. Even as President of the Royal Society Banks continued to prompt the Society of Arts, for by this time the Royal Society was concerned with the promotion of Science and "useful knowledge" and the Society with the "applied arts or what would later be called "technology." Banks prompted the Society of Arts to offer a prize for the introduction of Senna to Antigua in 1783. Banks also served as a liason between the Society of Arts and the outposts of Empire. The Society of Arts of Barbados was instituted with the help of Banks. The Society of Arts of Barbados wrote to Banks in 1781 asking for assistance to promote the aims of their Society which had been founded for the purpose of "discerning the usefull Qualities of the native Productions, Animal, vegetable & Fossil of Barnados. The Society of Arts of Barbados was given a gift of the volumes of the "Transactions" of the Society of Arts. Banks also conveyed to the Society of Arts the thanks of Dr. Thomas Dancer, Superintendant ! of the Jamaica Botanical Gardens, for an award in 1791. Banks stated that the award would encourage Dancer's exertions in regard to the cultivation of valuable spices and drugs committed to Dancer's care. In connection with the Board of Agriculture Sir Joseph Banks was advising the British East India Company about their station on St. Helena, outlining a programme of improvement that included new crops, gardens and enclosores. In 1787, to George Yonge, British Minister of War 1782-1794, who was responsible for St. Vincent, a military garrison at the time, Banks wrote advocating the transplantation of crops from the Botanical Gardens of Calcutta to the Botanical Gardens of St. Vincent. In the same year, in relation to Australia, Banks wrote to Governor Phillip, who was at the time in Rio de Janeiro Brazil collecting plants that Banks specified would be useful for the growth of the Colony of Australia. In 1799, Banks was asking the Board of Agriculture to help in the sending of seeds from Sumatra to the West Indies. It seems that the relationship was reciprocal between the Presidents of the Board and Banks. In 1799 Banks offered his opinons to the Lord Sommerville Pres. of the! Board on the dry mountain rice from Serinagur, received from the East India Company, as well as his opinons on the benefits of the introduction of succulent vegetables to the agricultural interest of Britain. Another President of the Board Lord Carrington in 1801, referred seeds to Banks, that had been presented by the East India Company. After examination Banks responded with suggestions as to which colonies in the empire would benefit most from the transplantation of the seeds. In 1803, Carrington again was seeking Banks' advice on which Botanical specimens recently received from Sumatra, would prove Desiderata in the West Indies. In 1807, Banks was pondering whah crops should be introduced to New Foundland. Banks was also instrumental to improvements in Britain but those we can leave alone. However we should say that Banks himself did practical work in regards to improving his own estates in Lincolnshire and Derbyshire. And what about Nutmegs? In 1794, Banks was offering to pay for the translation of a manuscript written by a Dutchman on Nutmeg cultivation. I must thank Neil and John Weiss for keeping the Nutmeg thread going until I could get back to it. In the meanwhile I was hoping to hear from Kew, (but have not), or David Watson on whether the crediting of Sir Joseph Banks with the introduction of the Nutmeg to Grenada in 1784 was in Dr. Groome's book. The words on the websites are identical and indicates some written source. I was also hoping that Edward Crawford might have been able to penetrate the Banks correspondence, or at least the index, to find any reference to Nutmegs and Grenada in 1784. Meanwhile Neil has brought forward some more information on the journey of the real Nutmeg Myrstica Officinalis from Cayenne via Trinidad to St. Vincent 1801 -1809, and mentioned the Society of Arts. John Weiss recently cautioned us on the fallibility of memoirs. However we have already established a time-line for the cultivation of Nutmeg in Grenada and thoroughly disproved any claim that Louis de La Grenade was the first successful cultivator of Nutmeg on Grenada. It is even stated on the La Grenade Foods website that he planted Nutmegs in 1773, but failed. So until we hear from either Kew, David Watson and Edward Crawford, I will give the last words to Joseph Banks. " .. it is by a Long Series of Experiments alone that the adoption of a new custom in agriculture can be established." Source for much of the above: "Joseph Banks and the English Enlightenment: useful knowledge and polite culture" pp.196-207. By Dr. John Gascoigne, Cambridge University Press. 1994

Dear Earl, You mention that the oldest ancestor you know was Henry (Fox) Campbell, and that he was from Scotland. He must have been a white Campbell then. What year are you talking about? Campbell is a Scottish name and I believe was and still is widespread in Jamaica. Obviously there are white Campbells still, and perhaps many more black Campbells now. I received years ago a list from Cindy Kilgore with more than thirty Campbell proprietors in Jamaica in 1810, three of them in St. Mary. No Henry Campbell there, but again, I don't know what period you are referring to. The Campbell family of my wife lived in Pimento Hill, that's near the coast in St. Mary, east of Port Maria. Jackson and Palmetto Grove are really somewhat removed from that place. I know from the marriage certificate of my wife's grandfather that he was married in 1898 and was then 24 years old. He would therefore have been born around 1874. I may or may not have found his baptism record. I also believe that his father's name was William Campbell and I have possibly a William Campbell born in 1841 at Whitehall, St. Mary. It remains more or less in the same area, but the evidence is not conclusive at all. As for going back to a slave owned by Harriett Campbell in 1821, that's a vey big question mark. If only I could find out where Bishop's Mount was, possibly not far from Pimento Hill, but it could also have been way down in St. Mary. There must be a way to identify that place! Good luck with your search. Jan Bousse boussejan@pandora.be ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Burrowes, Sr." <earl.burrowes@verizon.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:20 PM Subject: Re: SHAW and CAMPBELL of St. Mary > On 6/10/03 8:21 AM, "Jan Bousse" <boussejan@pandora.be> wrote: > > > In the 1817 slave register, T 71/33, she lists 47 slaves. The name of the > > property is not mentioned, but in the Almanack 1821 and subsequent editions, > > she is listed as the owner of Bishop's Mount, St. Mary. What struck me is > > that many of her slaves, mainly the African ones, have received a Christian > > name Campbell, which I suppose means that they were baptised, probably on > > the property. > > For a number of years I've been attempting to research the illusive > (maternal) CAMPBELL branch of my 'family tree' from the area around Jackson, > St. Mary. Oral history names the oldest ancestor as a Henry (Fox) CAMPBELL > -- the nickname "Fox" was for the color of his hair. Oral account also said > that Henry was from Scotland. > > Henry is said to have owned (and sold during his life time) property in/at > Palmetto Grove. He married a Elizabeth RAMSEY (mother's name WILLIAMSON -- > ancestors from England) of mixed race and they had six children (including > Ronald Alexander, Sylvia, Aubrey James, Leonard, and Mary. > > My mother (of mixed race, now 85 years of age and who grew up in St Mary) > recalls, as a child, references to black CAMPBELL and white CAMPBELL. Jan's > research seem to confirm oral accounts that the two 'camps' were descendants > of slave owners and slaves but not necessarily blood relations -- although > there were a number of those. > > Any assistance in tracing Henry CAMPBELL would be appreciated. > -- >

Priner Cottle was born in 1820. Married Olivia (1824) in St. George Parish, St Vincent in 1845. Their two daughters were Priscilla Cottle (1846) and Princess Sussanah Cottle (1857). All information welcome.

Good to hear that you have returned Codrington. Great news. Edward Crawford ______________________________________________________________ This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk.

It's so nice to have you back. I look forward to more on Caribbean/North American trading patterns. Tian

Hi Chris, We missed your presence and wisdom on the list. Real happy to have you back! Regards, Cheryl Hazell still researching Hazell/Ollivierre/Derrick/Snagg on Bequia _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Hi Chris: I'm glad to see that you're back on the List once more. Take care and keep us posted on your research. You may be interested to know that I am now involved iln Barbados research, on the HOLLINSED family, some of whom migrated to Jamaica near the end of the 19th century. All I can say is that for a small island Barbados sure has a lot of parishes! Good to see you back! Stay good! Dorothy

I remember someone on the list once saying they had this list. I have most of it, but I'm missing some from the very beginning, due to bad copying. I found the map that went with the list when I was last in Grenada, but it was too fragile to make the journey north. Could whoever, if they read this, get in touch with me off list so that I may ask them to fill in my blanks. It is only a few and would not be an onerous task - I'm trying to clear up "things I've been meaning to d.' David Watson david.watson@canada.com

Tally Ho Chris, Good to see that old Codpiece again!! Jim