Dear Jason, "All families", Tall order, but some background and we can refine our search. The Danish acquired St. C from the French in 1733, it took them several months after that to map the island, establish plantation plots and open for business. It took them a while to fill the island. L.M. Beck printed his map in 1754, and the list of plantation owners was done in 1767. Prior to 1733, you will have to French, Spanish, Knights of Malta, and Dutch records. Note. Some Planters on Tortola had second plantations on St.Croix. The Danish Government sent families from Germany, a few came from Barbados and "upper Islands" 1. In 1742, Peter Heyliger, Governor of St. Eustatius, and his brothers, and families are listed as having several plantations. Now to your question :), In the 'List of names of Inhabitants" all those names are listed, in a varity of spellings, As to the map. I can send you the list of plantation ownere, it is large 300 names. Ann ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jnlnjack@aol.com Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Estate two friends on St.Croix Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:51:31 EDT Dear Ms. Whiting, Did you mention that you have a circa 1700 St. Croix map? If you don't mind my asking, which map is this? I am researching all families of St.Croix prior to 1740s with the following surnames: RUAN-ROUAN-ROUAND/T RICHARDSON HEYLIGER BARNES DEWINDT GUMBS (among others) thank you, Jason Carpenter ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES What is a Mailing List? http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Hello, I am new to the list and noticed there are coordinators for different islands. Is there one for St Martin, or the French West Indian islands? I am also interested in the English islands of Anguilla and St Kitts. Thanks for any info you may have. J Lawrence Dean de Freitas wrote: > Listers, > > I'm pleased to announce that one of our very own has stepped up to take on > the USVI site. Please welcome Diane Ingino as our our newest Country > Coordinator. If you have any suggestions for the site, and wish to > contribute articles, links etc., please contact her through the List or > directly at dti@nyc.rr.com > > Dean > > P.S. Richard, I'm assurred that she doesn't use WebTV for her ISP. > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest.

Jeanine, If you visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/islands.html you can find out the status of our country web sites. The French Antilles has a Coordinator, but no website as yet. I also have links to Guadeloupe and Martinique on FranceGenWeb. Dean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanine Lawrence" <jalvel@earthlink.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:40 AM Subject: Coordinator for St Martin, FWI > Hello, > I am new to the list and noticed there are coordinators for different islands. Is there one > for St Martin, or the French West Indian islands? I am also interested in the English > islands of Anguilla and St Kitts. > Thanks for any info you may have. > J Lawrence > > Dean de Freitas wrote: > > > Listers, > > > > I'm pleased to announce that one of our very own has stepped up to take on > > the USVI site. Please welcome Diane Ingino as our our newest Country > > Coordinator. If you have any suggestions for the site, and wish to > > contribute articles, links etc., please contact her through the List or > > directly at dti@nyc.rr.com > > > > Dean > > > > P.S. Richard, I'm assurred that she doesn't use WebTV for her ISP. > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html >

Ernest, The List names of Inhabitants of the Danish Wwest Indies, 1650 -ca. 1825. 1 Hanschel, Tonnes Just born Lolland, citizen 11.3.1800 merchant ( I think thar might be Holland) 2 Hanschel, Hother census 1880 St. Th born St. Jan (34) judge 3 Hanscshel, Carl A.E.F. census 1846 St. Jan, born Denmark 1809, Judge living on 'Adrian' with his wife Johanna S. born Denmark 1814, If I run across any other names, I'll post. Ann ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Ernest M. Wiltshire" <murcot@synapse.net> Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: HANSCHELL, Danish Virgin Islands & Barbados Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:52:21 -0400 Has anyone ever come across the name HANSCHELL in their research on the Danish Virgin Islands? This is a prominent Barbados merchant family which I am researching as one of my cousins married into it. I have discovered that the first in Barbados, Valdemar A. HANSCHELL was born circa 1850, St. John, Danish Virgin Islands. I have not found out who he married (or where) or who his parents were, though I have found 3 children (born circa 1880) & their descendants in Barbados. I should like to hear from anyone who has knowledge o the family. Thank you. Ernest Ernest M. Wiltshire Friends of the Barbados Archives 38 Inglewood Place, Ottawa Ontario, K1Y 4C7, Canada ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

It is my own understanding of the history of the deCordova Collection and Museum that in contrast with the Isabella Stewart Gardner also a personal collector that he was unsuccesful in selecting pieces with wider than just personal appeal. The will was written in 1930 and the estate was probated around 1945. While the pieces in the Isabella Gardner Collection are in the same places on the same Museum walls as she left them scarcely any of deCordova's items were retained by the executors. The deCordova Museum owned items are relatively few and the items in exhibits are frequently borrowed from other museums. I did get the deCordova family relationships confused. I will see if I can get mine straight my grandmother was Amy Louise Burnett Bond the daughter of Charles granddaughter of Hiram Burnett and the grandniece of Joseph Burnett. Joseph's daughter Esther married George Peabody Gardner, their children were partly raised by Aunt Isabella Stewart Gardner. The families were once close my father and uncle visited them in boarding school.

Dear Ms. Whiting, Did you mention that you have a circa 1700 St. Croix map? If you don't mind my asking, which map is this? I am researching all families of St.Croix prior to 1740s with the following surnames: RUAN-ROUAN-ROUAND/T RICHARDSON HEYLIGER BARNES DEWINDT GUMBS (among others) thank you, Jason Carpenter

Hi Guy, You are very welcome. You have extracted the gist of what I had to say in regard to the issue of records. In another email I will try to suggest more formal considerations for the genealogically inclined that takes the over-all historical and demographic situation into account. Thanks for the links. Best regards, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Grannum" <guy@gcgrannum.freeserve.co.uk> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: Re: East Indian and Chinese Indentured Immigration W.I.

Hi David, Thanks for completing my education on the Nutmeg issue. I almost feel like planting some nuts in time for harvesting at my retirement!:)) Richard

Does anyone know of a Dr. Ferme from Haiti? he may have been aM.D. pr a magician or both My mother remembers my grandmother (who was born in Spanishtown Jamaica March 22 1900) telling stories of Dr. Fermes' visits and magic tricks.I have recently learned that my great grandfathers' name was Roland Theopolis Mathews. Anyone with any information would be appreciated. thank you , Pamela

Omar, "Forlovet" means engaged, as in "engaged to be married" or "fiance." The phrase probably calls for a signature before the actual marriage, so refers to the signatory as just "engaged." Jack

Thanks Dean will follows your instructions. Alba Dean de Freitas wrote: > Alba, > > You have to unsubscribe your old address and subscribe on your new > one. Instructions here: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/mailinglist.html > > Dean >

ANDREADRAMSEY@cs.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:a5.3b7d21d5.2c1fa86a@cs.com... > Free Women of Color from St. Croix 1831-1832. > Is there anyone who can help me with the following translation of Danish 'Frihed legitimeres ved medfi'lgemde Document?" The freedom is legitimized by the following/attached document > "Fosestec" ? No meaning > "Opholpotep" ? No meaning > "Omfrifost" ? No meaning > "Frigiven" Given free > "Funno'bt"? No meaning > "Ogtviet" No meaning > "Ugivt" No meaning > "Frommed og harnfra" ? (This column lists countries, including Africa) "Fremmed og hvorfra " Foreigner from > "Hvarlongo par Lamdett" ? No meaning If you need other translations try the newsgroup dk.videnskab.historie.generalogi where i think you can get more help. Michael B. Hardersdorf

Some-one pointed out that Indian names could also be formed by adding two names together, like Bhagat+Singh to get Bhagatsingh. This is quite true. I did not want to deal with this until we had gotten further into the history of East Indians in the British Colonies in the West Indies, as we were talking about Anglicisation and Creolisation of the names. The above example is more appropriate to observe outside of the process or situation of Anglicisation in which we will find more of the fracture of previously compounded names. I am also interested in this process not for academic purposes but also practical ones for genealogical purposes. In the absence of so much records, and also in some cases the presence of too many records, as in the case of too many persons with the same names, I am interested in being aware of the process of Anglicisation/Creolisation for the clues that names can give on the whereabouts of persons and in a situation where dating them might be ambiguous.. An indentured immigrant person could arrive with a name spelt one way on the ships manifest, arrrive on a plantation and imediately or within a few years have their name spelt slightly differently, depending upon who made the initial record and who kept the records for the next five and later three years. Some-one might even move to another plantation after one contract expired and get their name again spelt differently, by Englishmen, Scotsmen, Irish, and even Welsh and Cornish men, (all with their various county and regional accents) and not to forget the East Indian "Drivers" "Headmen" themselves. All of the foregoing would have a different ear, different levels of familiarity to East Indian names, different levels of education, different ways of spelling even in English. Then one can have one's children start attending schools and churches and have the names spelt variously yet again. And the orthographic and phonetic abilities of the recordists would also change over ti! me from one generation to another. Names can give clues in terms of Anglicisation and non-Anglicisation. Anglicised names tell us that the person in question was in a situation of Anglicisation and in a period of Anglicisation. The anglicising situations are of course on the plantations and in the schools and churches. The process of anglicisation would be more relevant to people who will later move off the plantation and into the towns and villages of the British and Creoles. On the plantations the sheer force of numbers and community pressure would serve slow the process of Anglicisation/Creolisation beyond initial name changes. Once the East Indians on the Plantations started to be able to better "staff" their communities with arrivals of Pandits/Pundits and Moulvis from India and later Pakistan or other colonies, the name changes would revert in many instances to what was common "back-home". But this would mostly affect new births and fore-names rather than surnames. And we also get more Hindu and Muslim ! names as fore-names for those religious groups, but a mixture or "Indian" and English and purely English fore-names for the Christian East Indians. We also have to add the fact that many East Indians did not take opportunity for educating their children the way that the Creoles and Chinese did. Also, we should take into account that it was not until close to the turn of the 1900 that the male - female ratio was equalised and stable families were becoming the norm. This meant increasing pressure to school one's children and prepare them for on or off plantation jobs. So even for the on-plantation East Indians, the pressure for Anglicisation was growing, with ultimately movement to the towns and villages, where they would likely be taught by anglicised creole teachers. This pressure increased dramatically after the cessation of Indentureship/Immigration in 1930, and with the prospect of Independence after 1953. Between these two water-shed years the East Indian Community would produce their own Anglicised teachers thus furthering the process of Anglicisation, and the promotion and retention of anglicised names. Later suc! h teachers and students would even found their own schools. The legal requirement that birth, marriages and deaths be registered with the Registrar-General would further serve to fix name changes in whatever form it was registered, (anglicised and non-anglicised), and that again can give clues to the degree of anglicisation of the parties concerned. The need to produce documents for legal and business purposes - land and other property records, taxes etc., - for schooling one's children, for travel etc. would again fix names. But then we also have to consider the recording of Censuses, and when the recording of names would be recorded by some-one else, we are back to phonetics, how the name appears to sound to some-one's ear. After general schooling people (especially the younger rather than older) could at least spell their own names, so the recording of names would get better after the 1960's. All of these factors can give clues as to who was writing the names and in what period or even situation. English itself was not generally standardised until after 1876 with the Education Act that made education compulsory for school age children. Before that it was the English Translation of the Latin Bible that did a great deal to standardise written English. Before that it was London English that was the ideal of English speech, for business purposes, but the writing could be idiosyncratic until after 1876, and based phonetically on regional accents and level of education of the writer. By the time we get to the indenture and immigration of East Indians in the 1840's, the British had been in India via the British East India Company going on two and half centuries. From (1600-1773) the BEI Co.; from 1773 UK parliamentary control via a Governor-General. By the 1840's the British Army had already standardised the way that Indian names from all the different languages of the recruits should be spelt or transliterated to be more precise. But before that we got: "A dictionary English and Hindostany : to which is annexed a copious and useful alphabetical list of proper names of men, women, towns, cities, rivers, provinces, countries &c. a great majority of which appear to be of Persian, Arabic or Indian origin." Vol.2 by Henry Harris, Surgeon, Madras Army (1759-1822), Madras : printed for the author, 1790, 345p. appx. of proper names, Vol. 1 (containing a grammar) never printed, titled: Guide to the Orthography of Indian Proper Names with a list showing the true spelling of all post towns and villages in India. Printed by William Wilson Hunter, Calcutta,187,pp.146. Office of the Superintendent of Govt. By the 1870's we get: "The duty of English-speaking Orientalists in regard to united action in adhering generally to Sir William Jones's Principles of Transliteration, especially in that case of Indian Languages : with a proposal for promoting a Uniform International Method of Transliteration so far at least as may be applicable to Proper Names." By Monier Monier-Williams, 1870, 21p. I do not know if it was published because there is a note at head of page: "Rough proof, not yet ready for printing off". And: "A Guide to the Orthography of Indian Proper Names with a list showing the true spelling of all post towns and villages in India." By William Wilson Hunter, British Academy London. Calcutta, 1871, 146 p. Office of the Superintendent of Govt. Author. And: "Indian Domestic Economy and Receipt Book, with Hindustanee romanized names ... Eighth edition, revised. By Robert Flower Riddell Calcutta : Thacker, Spink & Co. 1877, 596 p. By 1917 it seems that there was still a need to deal with Arabic and Persian based names, and hence this is relevant to the way in which Muslim names may have been spelt from c. 1870, or before, allowing for the time-lag between practice and formalisation. So we get: "The British academy transliteration of Arabic and Persian; report of the committee appointed to draw up a practical scheme for the transliteration into English of words and names belonging to the languages of the Nearer East." By H. Milford, Oxford university press 1917? 17 p. Published for the British Academy, London. Notes: From the Proceedings of the British academy, vol. VIII. Preface signed, C. J. L. stated that: The system "practically agrees with that adopted more than fifty years ago by the government of India for place-names in official use and for the names of soldiers in the Indian army, with such minor modifications as experience from time to time showed to be desirable." The above references, I think would be useful for seeing how the names would have been transliterated before and after the East Indian Indentured Immigrants got to the British Colonies. I hope all the above makes a further contribution to the Topic. Richard

It means "the names of he who gives away the bride and the bestman" -- Michael B. Hardersdorf "Orstcroix" <orstcroix@aol.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:20030616215409.01209.00000979@mb-m07.aol.com... > hello: > > I have a danish word from a marrage certificate from 1849 > > forlovernes navne > > > omar

I found the nutmeg discussion interesting. As far as I know I have no relatives in Grenada, but I was there for my honeymoon a thousand years ago and saw the nutmeg trees on the way across the island from the old airport, Pearles I think. Each winter the urge to go back and visit the Carribean becomes stronger. This time we'll make it to Jamaica to see where my grandfather was born. Jim Saunders ""David Watson"" <family.watson@utoronto.ca> wrote in message news:MABBKAIOJGAMIENKJCPLKEDOCEAA.family.watson@utoronto.ca... > Thanks you, Chris, for the OK for our nutmeg postings, although I'm sure > some of our list friends are getting a bit fed up with it. > > I'd just remind them that the ratio of Grenada to Jamaica or Grenada to > Barbados posts are so small that the odd Grenada thread deserves some > leeway. Please, not intended to produce negative comments. > > >Richard Allicock wrote > > >Since I have never seen a nutmeg tree, much more a grove of them...... > > The world "grove" does not describe a nutmeg plantation. At least when I > think of a grove I think of grapes or apple trees. Perhaps, though, that > name is used. Nutmegs are medium size trees dotted around cool tropical > hillsides, with lots of other stuff growing around them. If you're around > nutmegs you're usually elevated, cool and tropical, but not desperately > humid. > > >How does the male trees fertilize the female trees? > > This is uncertain, even today. Opinion in Grenada seems to run the gamut - > from wasps, moths to nothing. Theories of which insect does it or doesn't do > it are in the literature, but I don't expect that is a general interest > topic. > > >Can one identify male trees from female trees, and differentiate male and > female seeds and seedlings? > > The declaration of sex requires 5 to 8 years of seedling growth, but is > critical to production, as only female trees produce fruit. the role of the > male trees is still debatable. > > >Does the fruit require ingestion by an animal to break-down the outer fruit > part. > > No. Seeds drop and germinate. This is a common form of propagation. A pigeon > seems to have found its way into the literature, but I'm skeptical. > > >Do the fruits have to fall and decompose in the shade of the parent tree, > and take root and germinate in the shade, or does it have to be propagated > by animals passing the seeds out of their gastro-intestinal tract elsewhere > to give the seedlings a better chance for survival, (which they would not > have in competing with many other seeds), or in the shade of the parents? > > You can let the seedlings propagate naturally, or graft or some other ways > that were used after the Janet disaster. Too botanical to get into. > > >Is brazing by a forest fire required to burn off the remnants of fruit or > part of the outer-surface of the seeds, before germination can begin? > > No > > >Do the trees have to [be] planted in valleys, on the side of hills or > between other species for shade? > > The sides of hills seems to be the best, but I'll bet I could find a nutmeg > that confounds the generally accepted wisdom. > > >What kind of soil is required, acidic, neutral, alkaline, clay or loam? > > What's called moderate clay loam, well drained but with reasonable water > retention. The sides of hills is usual, but most of Grenada is the sides of > hills. > > >What kind of irrigation is required? > > Nutmegs are never irrigated. > > There is a 1995 report on Grenada nutmegs done by the FAO. You might still > be able to find it on the URL below. > > http://www.fao.org > > David >

During the years of 1734-36, the Danish was trying to settle St. Croix, and needed 'inhabitants' to populate it. Offers were made to other islands, and several in Barbados came to take up plantation plots, with their slaves. Does anyone have information on who migrated at that time? Ann "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Bond" Friday, June 13. > I did not realize that there were Indians named Busby in India < Reply: The Busby's mentioned in the LDS records are probably not Indians. But they could be the source of Indians named Busby in Bengal.

I would like to start compiling a list of people who have Montserrat ancestral interests. Although I am unable, at this time, to visit this Island I do hope to do so in the next two years. I have already received some very valuable information about my husband's Wilkin and Howes ancestors from the Montserrat Trust and I will continue to pursue information from the Registrar's Office there. There is information on the Island and it was not totally devastated by the volcano! So, if anyone wishes to write to me I will be sure to keep information and will do the best I can to find any information I can over the next few years...if not sooner! If anyone would like information as to how to obtain information on their own then please let me know as I might be able to help. Alannah

Hello everyone: I have two questions about information I have foound in my reasearch. what is Baf Church the f could also be a L I am am not quite sure. What does the purpose a Bondsman or a Sponsor (forloverns navne) in a marrage. Does he sponsor the festivity of the wedding ? Thans to everyone who has answered my many questions in the past omar

Thanks you, Chris, for the OK for our nutmeg postings, although I'm sure some of our list friends are getting a bit fed up with it. I'd just remind them that the ratio of Grenada to Jamaica or Grenada to Barbados posts are so small that the odd Grenada thread deserves some leeway. Please, not intended to produce negative comments. >Richard Allicock wrote >Since I have never seen a nutmeg tree, much more a grove of them...... The world "grove" does not describe a nutmeg plantation. At least when I think of a grove I think of grapes or apple trees. Perhaps, though, that name is used. Nutmegs are medium size trees dotted around cool tropical hillsides, with lots of other stuff growing around them. If you're around nutmegs you're usually elevated, cool and tropical, but not desperately humid. >How does the male trees fertilize the female trees? This is uncertain, even today. Opinion in Grenada seems to run the gamut - from wasps, moths to nothing. Theories of which insect does it or doesn't do it are in the literature, but I don't expect that is a general interest topic. >Can one identify male trees from female trees, and differentiate male and female seeds and seedlings? The declaration of sex requires 5 to 8 years of seedling growth, but is critical to production, as only female trees produce fruit. the role of the male trees is still debatable. >Does the fruit require ingestion by an animal to break-down the outer fruit part. No. Seeds drop and germinate. This is a common form of propagation. A pigeon seems to have found its way into the literature, but I'm skeptical. >Do the fruits have to fall and decompose in the shade of the parent tree, and take root and germinate in the shade, or does it have to be propagated by animals passing the seeds out of their gastro-intestinal tract elsewhere to give the seedlings a better chance for survival, (which they would not have in competing with many other seeds), or in the shade of the parents? You can let the seedlings propagate naturally, or graft or some other ways that were used after the Janet disaster. Too botanical to get into. >Is brazing by a forest fire required to burn off the remnants of fruit or part of the outer-surface of the seeds, before germination can begin? No >Do the trees have to [be] planted in valleys, on the side of hills or between other species for shade? The sides of hills seems to be the best, but I'll bet I could find a nutmeg that confounds the generally accepted wisdom. >What kind of soil is required, acidic, neutral, alkaline, clay or loam? What's called moderate clay loam, well drained but with reasonable water retention. The sides of hills is usual, but most of Grenada is the sides of hills. >What kind of irrigation is required? Nutmegs are never irrigated. There is a 1995 report on Grenada nutmegs done by the FAO. You might still be able to find it on the URL below. http://www.fao.org David