From: "Richard Bond" Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 7:03 AM > Dharamveer Singh as transcribed by a British plantation manager? Reply: I did not want to deal with this question until we had done some more on the anglicisation of names, and also on the transliteration of names. The name above is a transliteration, with the attempt being made to sound the accents of the native language (Hindi or Punjabi or Urdu) in this case using English. The emphases would look something like this D**h**ramveer, an almost gutteral beginning to the name. The "v" can also have a "w" sound depending on the original language. So lets say a Plantation manager sees the name, how is it going to be anglicised? (I am always tempted to use Britisation when dealing with Overseers/Planation Mangers for obvious reasons) How is the hypothetical Plantation Manager/Overseer going to pronounce the name to begin with? This all depends on where in the UK he was from, level of education, familiarity with Indian names, the time period that we are dealing with terms of Anglicisation etc.. But the matter can be simplified by the fact that any UK person is unlikely to give a gutteral emphasis to the DH beginning. The most that they will make of it will be D-Haram-veer or -weer if he is acqainted with Indian names or languages. If not, and this is the most likely, it will be pronounced Dah-ram-veer by an educated Englishman, and maybe Day -hay -raim - weir by a Yorkshireman or Scotsman When it came to writing the name back down however, it would not be spelt the way that it was pronounced above. It is most likely to be written as Daramvear or Daramvir, (pronounced Dah-ram-vear - Irish); Day-a-ram-vear (Day-ay-raim-vear -Scottish) or even Deoramvear (English). It can also be anglicised to Deoram given what has already been said about the fracture of names, and creolised to Deo or Ram as nick or call names. And the next thing you know people will think that his name is Deo Ramsingh. But in practice, unless wants to be familiar, the first name is never used, it is too long to begin with. So the shorter name would be preferred. Singh would be used for a labourer; Mr. Singh for some-one deserving of more respect, and in Guyana that would come later rather than sooner in the period of Indentureship. Practical examples that I have met with. Sarwar, the name of some-one that I met from India. Pronounced Sahr-war. In Guyana the same name is Searwar pronounced Seer-war. The Dharam also spelt Deyaram, has become Deoram in Guyana. A name like Rahman, which in Urdu with its Turkish/Persian/Arab influences would be pronounced R**ak**man, another gutteral emphasis there on R and the K but spelt with an "h". In India and Guyana this name has become Ra**man, Rah as in Hur-rah. In India and Guyana it can be spelt Ra-ha-man, Rayman, Raymand, or even anglicised to Raymond. However even a Guyanese with the name Rahman, if he goes to Mecca, would attempt to use the gutteral pronounciation of the "R" and "k" sound, just to insist upon the fact that he is a devout muslim and an al-haji or even place the Sheik in front of his name.. At the other end of the scale, and in an earlier time, we find Peter Ruhomon, who we have come across as a writer in the Bibliographies with his "Centenary history of the East Indians in British Guiana, 1838-1938". This is the very same name as Rahaman. Practical example. Some-one from India named Raj. To Canadians (Ontarians) he became "Ruj" or "Roj," short for Roger. Is this the same thing that happened to the name Rahaman when the Canadian Presbyterians in Peter Ruhoman's case, got hold of his name? I think he was also a Presbyterian Minister, a product of the Canadian Presbyterian Missionaries. Well I think I have given an impression, rather than an exhaustive consideration, that is enough to demonstrate the complexity of the situation in regard to the transliteration and anglicisation of East Indian names.

I guess that partly explains the association with Bay Rum

There are two HEYLIGER women listed on the select pages that I copied from the St.Croix, Christiansted Free Colored Women 1831-1832. p. 62 No 961 Arabella HEYLIGER 19 p. 79 No 1253 Marie af? HEYLIGER 35 Andrea In a message dated 6/18/2003 3:17:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > I am researching all families of St.Croix > prior > to 1740s with the following surnames: > RUAN-ROUAN-ROUAND/T > RICHARDSON > HEYLIGER > BARNES > DEWINDT > GUMBS > (among others) > > thank you, > > Jason Carpenter

Lolland is a specific province of Holland and people from there are called Lolliks someone named John from Lolland would be known as... ____ ______ quick someone from St. Thomas

We have the same oral tradition in our branch. I have mentioned it when visiting temples in describing my ancestry with Jewish friends and to my nieces and nephew whose father's family is Hungarian American Jewish. Whether she was entirely Jewish I do not know as there are stories indicating she too was part Asian. The probability due to those families claiming us as relatives through her is that she was. Indeed Grace seems from one of the Sephardic Jewish families that were then warehouse operators in Oranjestad. They were mostly constructed in the 1700s during the French and English War and the American Revolution boom years. That stopped with the British invasion under Rodney and Hood. They have slowly crumbled but were useful for cheap long term storage for many subsequent years. http://www.ecm.net/hsrj.de/statia/s60.jpg

Do not get me wrong though I like the deCordovas and the eccentric boulevardier image Julian cast in particular.

Hello Joyce, I have just join this list and saw your reply to Lorraine, I was wondering if there is any mention of a David McEwen from Grenada, in Scots in the West Indies 1707-1857 by David Dobson. We have trace back to him when his son James McEwen born 1797 His mother Sarah Hall (a free mustee, or mestee not sure of the spelling) have been told Sarah was of Spanish Amerindian parentage., not sure if that is correct. If you need any help with Australian research I am will to help if possible Many Thanks Regards Camille McEwen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Falink" <jfalink@rconnect.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 2:46 AM Subject: Re: MacQueen > Lorraine, > > From "Scots in the West Indies 1707-1857" by David Dobson is the > following: > > DONALD MACQUEEN, born 1795, a surgeon, son of Reverend Edmund MacQueen, > minister in Barra, died in Jamaica 7.1.1819. > > I also have information regarding the Alexander you reference, but I ask > that you contact me off list as the family entries for this person > appear to be numerous. > > Joyce Falink > > p.s. Great to have you back, Chris!!! We've missed your pontificating > about various subjects, and, of course, your wit. > > > Subject: From Scotland to West Indies 1800+ > > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 19:10:03 -0400 > > From: "espencer" <espencer@magma.ca> > > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Hello > > > > I am very new to your List as I have just received > > new information on my family. I may not be on the > > correct List so any direction would be appreciated. > > > > Dr Murdoch MacLeod was born in North Uist, Scotland > > about 1784/85. He married Marion MacQueen about > > 1815-1817 and all I know is that they went to the West > > Indies. Their daughter (Marion MacLeod) was born there > > about 1818 and I believe the mother died. Dr Murdoch > > returned with the daughter to North Uist and he died there > > on March 3, 1822 and left the daughter (about age 4) in > > the care of his brother, Dr Alexander MacLeod. > > Dr. Murdoch MacLeod and Marion (MacQueen) MacLeod > > are my 3x g-grandparents and their daughter is my > > 2x g-grandmother. So far, there is nothing that tells me > > where they went in the West Indies except that Dr Donald > > MacQueen (surgeon) died in Jamaica on January 7, 1819. > > Any direction would be helpful. Thank You > > Lorraine Ottawa, Canada > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. > >

I'm no longer using this email address: ivanik_@web.bg Please forward all your future emails to: ivanik_ @ e-card.bg Thanks, Ivan Nikolov ---- Asian, Filipino, Korean Personals Community. Old friends from college and high school. Get paid to read email. And more ... http://ivanik1.tripod.com http://www.friendsfinder.hit.bg

I have just joined this list and wanted to ask a question: I am researching the names Walter William BEBBINGTON and George BEBBINGTON. The family history goes that that one of these two gentlement were listed as missing at sea. The interesting thing is that I believe they were both part of the crew that sailed from Bristol and the South West of England to the caribbean many times. The rumour is that the one that was lost at sea (of course I dont know which one) actually settled in the caribbean. This could have been in the 1890-1910 time frame. I am sorry that i dont have more information - I know this is a long shot. I was wondering if there are any marriage or census records in the area which could be checked Thanks VANDA San Diego, CA

Does anyone have ANY information on Neilsons in Trinidad in 17th/18th centuries? Roger McCracken --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003

Richard, I don't know about your branch, but I grew up on Gifilte fish, we called them fish balls, smoke herring ,Rasin, Black and Rye bread, Knishes, Matzah wafers and lox on johnny cakes. To this day there is a box of wafers next to my bed, to snack on when I am reading in bed. Our aunt Henrietta and her family were Jews. Ann "Sharing the information." Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados ----Original Message Follows---- From: RichardBond@webtv.net (Richard Bond) Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Grace ___ Busby from Statia Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:53:26 -0400 (EDT) We have the same oral tradition in our branch. I have mentioned it when visiting temples in describing my ancestry with Jewish friends and to my nieces and nephew whose father's family is Hungarian American Jewish. Whether she was entirely Jewish I do not know as there are stories indicating she too was part Asian. The probability due to those families claiming us as relatives through her is that she was. Indeed Grace seems from one of the Sephardic Jewish families that were then warehouse operators in Oranjestad. They were mostly constructed in the 1700s during the French and English War and the American Revolution boom years. That stopped with the British invasion under Rodney and Hood. They have slowly crumbled but were useful for cheap long term storage for many subsequent years. http://www.ecm.net/hsrj.de/statia/s60.jpg ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== The CARIBBEAN-L FAQ can be found at http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/mailinglistfaq.htm. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

I have just found another (that makes 5) great great uncle Francis "Frank" Henry Saunders b. March 7, 1852, Haverfordwest, Wales. He died in St. Andrew's, Jamaica I have no idea of when, but it was prior to 1933. Hw was a doctor and had been in practise with his brother Arthur Rich Saunders until Arthur took his family to England in 1908. Did Frank have a family? If he did I probably have relatives still in Jamaica. Can anyone help me out? Jim Saunders

Thank you Ann! That is terrific! Carl A.E.F. Hanschell might very well be Valdemar's father. Not only is he in the right place at the right time, the names are right too: one of Valdemar's sons is named Valdemar Carl. An excellent starting point: much appreciated! Ernest -----Original Message----- From: Ann Whiting [mailto:aqw8326@hotmail.com] Subject: Re: HANSCHELL, Danish Virgin Islands & Barbados Ernest, The List names of Inhabitants of the Danish West Indies, 1650 -ca. 1825. 1 Hanschel, Tonnes Just born Lolland, citizen 11.3.1800 merchant ( I think that might be Holland) 2 Hanschel, Hother census 1880 St. Th born St. Jan (34) judge 3 Hanscshel, Carl A.E.F. census 1846 St. Jan, born Denmark 1809, Judge living on 'Adrian' with his wife Johanna S. born Denmark 1814,

Just curious; my uncle by marriage was a Busby on his mother's side. They were from Rhode Island. I would think Busby is an English or Scottish name (lowland Scots and English are basically the same linguistically), as I understand it most Statians are of British descent albeit Dutch nationality. That -by suffice is Scandinavian, denoting a place name, but I forget exactly what it means, village I think. It's common in England and Scotland because of the heavy Norse settlement in the Middle Ages, the extent of which can be gauged by the name Ingleby, meaning "English Village," which tends to show that villages inhabited by the English stood out from the norm in Northern England at the time. I don't know what Busby means but it seems likely that all Busby families originate in the town of Busby, except for those who adopted the name. There may well be more than one town named Busby, however. I would think if any Indians took the Busby name from American missionaries, they would have been Baptist, Methodist, or Congretationalist. Maybe Quaker. In any event some evangelical sect of British origin, and not Anglican or Lutheran. But then it would be hard to distinguish them from converts by English and Scottish missionaries, who were also active in the same places. The Scots would be more likely to be Presbyterian, I would think.

The name in St. Thomas and St. Croix have married out as there were few sons, but there are still decendents in Stacia. Ann "Sharing the information." Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Sheila Senior" <ss002b3175@blueyonder.co.uk> Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. Names/Caste/Bengali Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:04:41 +0100 Thats interesting what you say on Busby, my grandmothers maiden name was Busby but my great grandfather was from Ireland. I am unable to find his birth or parents marriage & their deaths. I have found a family of Busby from Antrim his county who go way back. There is a Busby list this is mostly American Busbys for those who are interested Sheila Senior England ----- Original Message ----- From: <MReilly169@aol.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:57 PM Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. Names/Caste/Bengali > Just curious; my uncle by marriage was a Busby on his mother's side. They were from Rhode Island. I would think Busby is an English or Scottish name (lowland Scots and English are basically the same linguistically), as I understand it most Statians are of British descent albeit Dutch nationality. That -by suffice is Scandinavian, denoting a place name, but I forget exactly what it means, village I think. It's common in England and Scotland because of the heavy Norse settlement in the Middle Ages, the extent of which can be gauged by the name Ingleby, meaning "English Village," which tends to show that villages inhabited by the English stood out from the norm in Northern England at the time. I don't know what Busby means but it seems likely that all Busby families originate in the town of Busby, except for those who adopted the name. There may well be more than one town named Busby, however. > I would think if any Indians took the Busby name from American missionaries, they would have been Baptist, Methodist, or Congretationalist. Maybe Quaker. In any event some evangelical sect of British origin, and not Anglican or Lutheran. But then it would be hard to distinguish them from converts by English and Scottish missionaries, who were also active in the same places. The Scots would be more likely to be Presbyterian, I would think. > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

When I did research on the name, and I have forgotten more than I remember:), the names shows up in Scotland,, means people who live in/near bush, and I believe are part of Clan McDonald. Many years ago, I went to Busby, Scotland, as I said it is near Palsey east of Gloscow, and the name dows trace back to the Normans/Norse. How's this for a "?", my family at face value could be called black or mulatto, we prefer caribbean creole, but my mother's name was Valdarair, definately nordic. over the years it became Valaria, aka Valarie. I also have a suspission that her maternal grandmother was a Jew, proberbly by religion and not heritage. One never know, that is why this is soo much fun. There is a Busby area in the borderland of Englend/Scotland. Ann "Sharing the information." Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados ----Original Message Follows---- From: MReilly169@aol.com Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. Names/Caste/Bengali Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:57:59 -0400 Just curious; my uncle by marriage was a Busby on his mother's side. They were from Rhode Island. I would think Busby is an English or Scottish name (lowland Scots and English are basically the same linguistically), as I understand it most Statians are of British descent albeit Dutch nationality. That -by suffice is Scandinavian, denoting a place name, but I forget exactly what it means, village I think. It's common in England and Scotland because of the heavy Norse settlement in the Middle Ages, the extent of which can be gauged by the name Ingleby, meaning "English Village," which tends to show that villages inhabited by the English stood out from the norm in Northern England at the time. I don't know what Busby means but it seems likely that all Busby families originate in the town of Busby, except for those who adopted the name. There may well be more than one town named Busby, however. I would think if any Indians took the Busby name from American missionaries, they would have been Baptist, Methodist, or Congretationalist. Maybe Quaker. In any event some evangelical sect of British origin, and not Anglican or Lutheran. But then it would be hard to distinguish them from converts by English and Scottish missionaries, who were also active in the same places. The Scots would be more likely to be Presbyterian, I would think. ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Has anyone ever come across the name HANSCHELL in their research on the Danish Virgin Islands? This is a prominent Barbados merchant family which I am researching as one of my cousins married into it. I have discovered that the first in Barbados, Valdemar A. HANSCHELL was born circa 1850, St. John, Danish Virgin Islands. I have not found out who he married (or where) or who his parents were, though I have found 3 children (born circa 1880) & their descendants in Barbados. I should like to hear from anyone who has knowledge o the family. Thank you. Ernest Ernest M. Wiltshire Friends of the Barbados Archives 38 Inglewood Place, Ottawa Ontario, K1Y 4C7, Canada

That is an interesting question, The Busby's are Richard and my ancestors, who were dead long before we were born. I know their nationality was Dutch, from Stacia, but Richards grandmother and my mother were Anglican, as their father was English. I did find a Busby listed in the Lutheran records, so go figure, at least we had religion?:) I also ran across an interesting note, of a Lockhart and Busby connection in Scotland/Ireland (can't remember), and I have been to Busby,Scotland, just outside of Palsey. Ann "Sharing the information." Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados ----Original Message Follows---- From: MReilly169@aol.com Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. Names/Caste/Bengali Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:49:54 -0400 What Christian denomination were the Indian Busbys? Busby is a common "yankee" name in New England, and I wonder if the source of the name was American missionaries. ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== The CARIBBEAN-L FAQ can be found at http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/mailinglistfaq.htm. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

What Christian denomination were the Indian Busbys? Busby is a common "yankee" name in New England, and I wonder if the source of the name was American missionaries.

Forgot the source, 1. Westergaard, W Ann ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jnlnjack@aol.com Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Estate two friends on St.Croix Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:51:31 EDT Dear Ms. Whiting, Did you mention that you have a circa 1700 St. Croix map? If you don't mind my asking, which map is this? I am researching all families of St.Croix prior to 1740s with the following surnames: RUAN-ROUAN-ROUAND/T RICHARDSON HEYLIGER BARNES DEWINDT GUMBS (among others) thank you, Jason Carpenter ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES What is a Mailing List? http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html "Sharing the information." _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus