My slave ancestor who was baptized in Christ Church, Barbados in 1810, was given the same ASHBYsurname as her owner.(B'dos Archives) On R.C. ASHBY's subsequent Register of slaves 1817-1834, (PRO)he lists her without a surname and uses her nickname, not her baptism name. Andrea

This suggested connection of the Empress Eugénie with Anglican baptism seems a little odd to me, as she was deeply involved with the Roman Catholic church. She was Empress until 1870, when Napoleon III capitulated to the Prussians, and they then retired to England. She died in 1920, and during the latter part of her life she devoted herself first to building a mausoleum in memory of her husband (and later, their son) which was connected with a Benedictine abbey - this was in Farnborough, Hampshire. Can anyone find an explanation for her apparently recorded involvement in Anglican baptism during the time she was still Empress in France? [see Empress Eugénie's Quest for a Napoleonic Mausoleum by Alison McQueen, http://www.19thc-artworldwide.org/winter_03/articles/mcqu.html] John Weiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "James W Cropper" <jameswcropper@sympatico.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:42 PM Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent Presbyterian Church. : I'm back! Been off list due to technical problems with my server which was : blacklisted by Rootsweb. Only Auntie Virus would know the technical terms : "pinged" by a spammer. Back to business! : : While Tim has gone through the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada from : 1860 to 1931, I have gone through the Transcripts of St. George Cathedral, : Kingstown, St. Vincent from 1765-1870. I became intrigued with entries when : the "coolies" start appearing in the early 1860's. Their place of birth is : not given in most cases but there were some from Madras and Calcutta. : Madras and Calcutta seem likely to be the ports the indentured "coolies" : embarked from rather than their actual birthplaces. Most parents are : referred to in East Indian names with the children baptized with "English" : names. : : There are many references in the Baptisms to "by the Emperietrice Eugenia" : aka "Empretrice Eugenie", etc. It is difficult to tell if she had some : status in the Church of England, a translator, a respected member of the : East Indian Community, etc. On further checking she was only involved with : Baptisms starting in the late 1860's. Many of the baptisms where she was : involved occurred in the Colonial Hospital. The hospitalized child and : their siblings are baptized but not the parents. Many at the Cathedral : involve adults receiving "Christian" names with no mention of "East Indian" : names. There are no entries in Marriages and the Burials cut off at 1855. : These entries are a minority of the total. It is assumed that as : "indentured labourers", the majority of them would have been associated with : the rural churches and other dominations. Only those working near the : capital or hospitalized are probably in the Anglican Cathedral records. : : In off-line discussions with Marcos he opined :- "Actually I think I : remember that Empress Eugenie, who got out of France with a lot of money, : set up a foundation to baptize 'heathens' that may have been run through the : Anglican Church worldwide. These baptisms in SV were probably paid for by : the foundation. Somewhere along the line she got the idea that God was : punishing her for her previous extravagant lifestyle." : : Has anyone noticed the involvement of an "Empress Eugenie" or similar : Islanders to the new arrivals? : : Jim C. : ps Over the years, SVG has produced stamps on many subjects. There is one : showing a ship ferrying people between India and the West Indies. : : ----- Original Message ----- : From: "Tim Anderson" <timuna@starpower.net> : To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> : Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 2:37 AM : Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent : Presbyterian Church. : : : > I have just 2 observations to add to this thread. I have gone over : > the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada from 1860 to 1931 as they : > exist on the LDS microfilms. Concerning East Indians in the latter : > part of the 19th: in the 1870s and 1880s about 50% of the baptisms : > were for East Indian children and adults; the reason that I know this : > is that the parish records clearly label these people as either : > "coolie" or "native of Calcutta" or something similar. : > : > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:29:29 +0000 (UTC), richwyn@idirect.com : > ("Richard Allicock") wrote: : > : > >I found James Cropper's posting, which I have edited below, very : interesting : > >and very re-freshing compared to the British Guiana experience and maybe : > >that of Trinidad and Jamaica. I will leave others on the list : knowledgeable : > >about the situation in the last two countries to say what the situation : was : > >there. But in British Guiana, where the London Missionary Society had : gotten : > >a foot-hold before slavery was abolished, and since the LMS was the local : > >arm of the Abolitionists movement, the LMS did not take kindly to the : > >arrival of the East Indians. : > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> : > : > : > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== : > To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the : quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to : CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or : CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. : > : : : ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== : Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been asked on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can search the archives at http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. :

Thanks, Lisa. It's good to be back and read all the new details and discoveries!!! -- At 12:31 AM 21/06/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Nice to see you back flyboy --Lisa Regards, James C. "Jim" Lynch 510 Conley Street, Thornhill, ON L4J6T8, CANADA 905-760-2413 (direct, message machine) 905-738-3599 (not direct, voice mail) http://www.candoo.com/

Hi, Chris... Long time, buddy. I went to Bimshire in September '02 with my new Significant Other and I remembered our own trip together to Barbados and Antigua way back when. Seems like centuries ago!! I rented a car in Antigua and did the tour, so we passed many of those places again - no special flight this time, though!! The Barbados tour was more leisurely, but there were many of the same places - like St. John's Church with that Greek royalty chappie, etc. Great view out over the east coast, too, always as I remember it. The V. L. Oliver books are going slowly, but I did have to do a re-run of History to satisfy the accumulating demand. Caribbeana is now in many Universities and I only have a few sets left. I was fearful of your own health and situation, but I heard that you were struggling and doing what was necessary... it is good to see you on the List again. All the best this time around with your personal life, by the way - I seem to have found my own wonderful match myself, so I'm looking forward to a bright future. By the way, Toronto is between 29 and 31 degrees Celsius (84 - 87 degrees Fahrenheit) this weekend, so please accept my assurance that the icicles outside my igloo melted several days ago... damned huskies have disappeared, though, so I guess I'll just have to drag out the snowshoes and plod to the trading post 250 miles away for a new supply of seal blubber to keep the lamps going so I can see the computer monitor. Hey, write soon and tell me all the details - and if there is something I can do please do not hesitate to ask. All the best to that rasping Colonel John... -- At 12:29 AM 21/06/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Hello James >Nice to see you all cheery and chipper and back . I need not comment on my >own condition as am communicating from my secret bunker somewhere in >"Hollywood" >Ah...... I yearn for stardom but needs settle for survival. Season being what >is and storm projections being nearly terrifying I am avoiding sleeping under >coconut trees. I know at least two yards containing trees so full of the darn >things that I dare never sleep on those city streets.I do hope that all >things being equal both myself and my pet whale will be welcome in Barbados >regardless of whether we are a: EDIBLE or b: sensible on arrival, >obviously it is >still way too cold in Toronto and the darned whale might die before giving >testimony to Cindy....This cannot be allowed to happen or the legacy might be >lost.... >Anyway someone's got to do this once in awhile....last time it was streets >full of water....please advise..... > > >Cod > > >==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been >asked on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date >or thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can >search the archives at >http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. Regards, James C. "Jim" Lynch 510 Conley Street, Thornhill, ON L4J6T8, CANADA 905-760-2413 (direct, message machine) http://www.candoo.com/

Nevilla Hi - I almost feel I know you now, as John Weiss has promised that he will bring us together when you next come into his strata of the universe! I told him that I was intrigued by your search for all Ottleys as my ex-husband's, (David Green) mother's (Olive Green ) maiden name was Otterley, or Ottley. She was born in Madras India as her father was some kind of High Commissioner there. Do you know anything about this family - have you heard? I do not remember anymore except that his mother had a sister called Patricia. I don;t for instance remember his grandmother's name, I'm sorry. It's too long ago. But I will look up in my family research and see if I put something in there, however, I have looked briefly and all I have put in the family trees I have looked in so far is his name only. Sara Weiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nevilla E. Ottley" <clasebon@erols.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: [Fwd: OLLIVIERRE - OTTLEY] > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: OLLIVIERRE - OTTLEY > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:22:04 -0400 > From: "James W Cropper" <jameswcropper@sympatico.ca> > To: "Nevilla E. Ottley & Edgar E. Adjahoe" <clasebon@erols.com> > > > > Hi Nevilla, > > There is a problem with my Server and posting to the Caribbean List. I > posted the following on the OLLIVIERRE Family Site. > > Jim > > Hi Cheryl. Have been trying to answer your inquiry on the Caribbean List > - perhaps this will work. My server Sympatico has been blacklisted by > Rootsweb so I can't post. Further to Nevilla's information, the St. > George Cathedral records show :- > > - William Anthony OTTLEY (born ca 1815 - ? ) - Writing Clerk - married > 30 May 1838 - Frances OLLIVIERRE (born ca 1816 - died 03 Mar 1846 age > 30). His Father could have been the William suggested by Nevilla viz. > William OTTLEY (born 1797 - baptised 15 Dec 1797 - buried 24 Apr 1820 > age 23 all in SV) - Educated at Trinity Hall, Cambridge - Will dated 03 > Oct 1819 proved 05 Jul 1820. The Will may be in the SV Courthouse which > should provide additional info. She could have been the Francais > DeROCHE/OLIVIER/OLLIVIERRE (baptised 27 Nov 1815) as suggested by others. > > William & Frances had at least 2 children. Mary Frances OTTLEY (born ca > 1839 - baptised 23 Jul 1839). Margaret Amelia OTTLEY (born ca 1841 - > baptised 04 Jul 1841). > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. >

Guy Grannum wrote: >... In the few examples I have of slave baptisms most > usually kept their slave name (if English) but expanded diminutives eg > Eliza became Elizabeth and Tom became Thomas.... >.... >Barry Higman has undertaken detailed research into the Jamaican registers in >'Slave population and economy in Jamaica, 1807-1834' which might explain >local naming practices. From those names that obviously could be kept (out of the 47 I have transcribed), 8 were of the Alexander-Alexander or Ned-Edward type, but 12 were of the Frederick-William type. This is not counting changes from Samson, Emanuel and Moses, because I don't know if those names would have been considered acceptable anyway, but if they would have been, then the incidence of the Frederick-William type change increases. The sample is not large enough yet, of course. I don't want to get too involved in this (finding myself obsessionally transcribing other plantations as well, looking in baptismal records for all churches, checking plantation records - where might I find the last?) as I only started because of a vague desire to see if I could find out what happened to the named slaves left in 1795 to the two daughters of the 18C owner. As I cannot read all the names on the probate copy of the will, it seemed easiest to transcribe all the names from the register, and then consider things at leisure, using a sortable list. It may be that my queries will be answered if I can find the particular slaves (for whom the will does not give baptismal names) - since I will know where they were in 1795 - but it will be some months before I get a chance to finish. The only one that I (may) have found has (like the majority) a surname that does not appear to relate to the owners' names. Meanwhile I will have a look at BW Higman's book - thank you for the reference, and for your comments.

I understand that the Caribs are still there as a small but distinct minority in the remote north end of the island.

Cecilia Since the information was found in the slave registers I suggest that the double names are plantation name and baptismal name - this format was quite common in Jamaica and is very useful for tracing slave families. Unlike Barbados where even if the slaves were baptised you do not find their baptismal name alongside their slave name (or rather I haven't found any yet) in the registers. It may be difficult finding out why the baptismal names were chosen because this information was found in the first register (1817) - you will need to find personal plantation accounts for place of birth and previous owners. For example it is possible that Osonoko and Dawson came from the Dawson household on the marriage between Francis's daughter and James Hewitt Massy-Dawson; similarly was Briton on Pallmer's estate/household (he and his mother and others could have been gifted on the marriage between Pallmer and Francis's daughter)? It is also possible that the names were chosen to favour the son in-laws - you should check the parish registers to find out when they were baptised - there may also be clues in the church register. I haven't found out how baptismal names were chosen - were they chosen by the slave, the slave owner or by the church - you don't find too many African sounding names, eg Quamin, in baptismal entries, which makes me think that either the slaves wanted a new name or because the church saw such names as heathen. In the few examples I have of slave baptisms most usually kept their slave name (if English) but expanded diminutives eg Eliza became Elizabeth and Tom became Thomas - so I am not surprised that Alexander stayed Alexander but why did Frederick become William? You are lucky that the Jamaican registers give baptismal names because if you were researching William Hamilton I doubt that you'd think that he was called Frederick, especially if there were other Williams, Wills, Billys etc on the estate! Barry Higman has undertaken detailed research into the Jamaican registers in 'Slave population and economy in Jamaica, 1807-1834' which might explain local naming practices. Guy Grannum ----- Original Message ----- From: "cecilia" <myths@ic24.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:07 AM Subject: Jamaican slave names 1817 > Looking at slave names listed in the 1817 Register for St Mary's > Jamaica at the National Archives, Kew, London, I noticed that the > names were listed as > nameA nameB nameC > and looked very much as if each person had two names. > > Another plantation listed names as Original name and Baptismal name, > and I wondered if something like that was going on. > > Examples of the names were > Briton Charles Nicholas Pallmer aged 28 > Quamin Richard Davis 31 > Alexander Alexander Logan 16 > Osonoko James Dawson 31 > Dawson John Dawson 19 > Beckford James Smith Lawes 36 > Frederick William Hamilton 24 > > As well as wanting confirmation that my feeling that each had two > names is correct, I was puzzled by some of the names used. > > The owner of the plantation, to Dec 1795 when he died, was Francis > Dennis. His wife was Mary Burke (or Bourke), and his heirs were his > young daughters, aged 13 and 11 when he died. One married James > Hewitt Massy-Dawson, the other married Hugh Ingoldsby Massy in 1801, > and then (he having died in 1805) Charles Nicholas Pallmer (who was > born in 1772, according to > http://www.hmc.gov.uk/NRA/searches/PIdocs.asp?P=44819). > > A lot of the names in the previous paragraph appear in the slave > names, Charles Nicholas Pallmer being very obvious. But the heiress's > husband was not a member of the owner's family when Briton was born, > and was only 17 or so at the time. (References to him on the web deal > with his adult life.) > > Briton's mother is named (Jane Simmons), so it seems likely that he > was born on the plantation (I did not have time to read all the > names). > > Is it likely that there was a great renaming sweep across the > plantation (or even island(s)?) in the early 19C - after 1805, and > possibly after 1812? (I cannot remember the date of the Pallmer > marriage). > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > The CARIBBEAN-L FAQ can be found at http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/mailinglistfaq.htm. > >

I am very happy to see more involvement in the thread. Thanks to all who are contributing. I thought the name Empress Eugenie sounded familiar, and was a ship. My suspicions were confirmed. It was a ship among those transporting Labourers from Calcutta to the West Indies. There was also an Empress Eugenie, wife of Napoleon III, who took refuge in England during the Franco-Prussian War (1870-1871) and stayed there after Napoleon III's death in 1873, until 1920 when she died (in Spain on a visit). The link to the ships' list is below. www.theshipslist.com/ships/Arrivals/westindies1850s.html+Empress+Eugenie+Ship&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Barry, I am familiar with the Hazells and Ollivierres who lived in Perth Amboy when they immigrated to the U.S. in the early 1900s. This information can be found on the Ellis Island site www.ellisislandrecords.org. Can you tell me offline who your brother in law's parents were? It is correct that the Hazells and Ollivierres owned much land on Bequia. The Hazells also owned the now rich-and-famous getaway island of Mustique from 1865-1958. The Ollivierres still own several Grenadine islands and some land in Bequia. I have the 1930 census and my great aunt and uncles (Hazell) were living at 477 Miller Street in Perth Amboy. It would be interesting to find out if your brother in law and I are related. All it will take for me to know are his parents and grandparents name and maybe I'll be able to add him to the 1400+ names I have on my Bequia/St Vincent tree. Can't wait to hear........ Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

Thanks so much to those who have given me a great deal of information on the boundaries of the Caribbean versus the West Indies - I had no idea..... My information so far on Walter William BEBBINGTON is very sparse. I believe he worked on a merchant ship from the sugar plantations in the West Indies to Bristol in England. OF course I have no proof only many stories from the family. It appears he went to sea on a trip and never returned.....The family was told he had been "lost at sea" - I havent managed to obtain a death cert either. Gran always said her father - ran away from home - hence my lurid interest in the fact that he may have just stayed on greener pastures in the area - of course that would have been a vast improvement from the kids and the pauper existance he enjoyed in Bristol.........It is a long shot but sounds like a good movie so I thought I would do some more research. The families version of his disappearance is around 1922. He would have been 40 years old I will keep searching ... Thanks for all those who have helped VANDA

Hi Vanda, Technically, if Columbus had had his way, all of the Islands in the Atlantic that he "discovered" plus all of North and South America might have become the West Indies. The Caribbean and the West Indies are technically not the same, the former is larger than the latter, as the Caribbean can include the Atlantic coastal areas of the USA, Mexico and Central and South America. Guyana and Suriname are in South America but are considered as West Indies for historical reasons. Belize formerly a part of Guatemala is also considered part of the West Indies for similar reasons. All are however properly in the Caribbean. The West Indies proper however are the Islands in the Atlantic, off the Southern Coasts of North America (i.e., off Florida) to the Islands off the Northern coasts of South America. That is, from Cuba down to Trinidad & Tobago. For your purposes however, relative to the Babington's, you will need to see if you can find the Ships Ticket for the persons in question. Since you do not seem to know which ship they were on, you might have to consult the Index to such records or do a Bebington name search on the PRO catalogue and see what comes up. Be sure to include the spelling Babington as well as with two bs for the two spellings. Ships Tickets are something that the list has already covered. I will find the relevant email and forward it to you off list. I hope all helps. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: <WshireSD@aol.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: Ships to the West Indies > OK - I am going to ask a stupid question - but would like a sensible answer. > > Are there any records of people who were on merchant ships from England to > the West Indies. Does the West Indies mean the same as the Caribbean??? (Sorry - > that must sound incredibly stupid) > > I am looking for Walter BEBBINGTON born in England in 1882 > > and George BEBBINGTON born in Bristol, 1946. > > Thanks > VANDA > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > >

OK - I am going to ask a stupid question - but would like a sensible answer. Are there any records of people who were on merchant ships from England to the West Indies. Does the West Indies mean the same as the Caribbean??? (Sorry - that must sound incredibly stupid) I am looking for Walter BEBBINGTON born in England in 1882 and George BEBBINGTON born in Bristol, 1946. Thanks VANDA

I'm back! Been off list due to technical problems with my server which was blacklisted by Rootsweb. Only Auntie Virus would know the technical terms "pinged" by a spammer. Back to business! While Tim has gone through the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada from 1860 to 1931, I have gone through the Transcripts of St. George Cathedral, Kingstown, St. Vincent from 1765-1870. I became intrigued with entries when the "coolies" start appearing in the early 1860's. Their place of birth is not given in most cases but there were some from Madras and Calcutta. Madras and Calcutta seem likely to be the ports the indentured "coolies" embarked from rather than their actual birthplaces. Most parents are referred to in East Indian names with the children baptized with "English" names. There are many references in the Baptisms to "by the Emperietrice Eugenia" aka "Empretrice Eugenie", etc. It is difficult to tell if she had some status in the Church of England, a translator, a respected member of the East Indian Community, etc. On further checking she was only involved with Baptisms starting in the late 1860's. Many of the baptisms where she was involved occurred in the Colonial Hospital. The hospitalized child and their siblings are baptized but not the parents. Many at the Cathedral involve adults receiving "Christian" names with no mention of "East Indian" names. There are no entries in Marriages and the Burials cut off at 1855. These entries are a minority of the total. It is assumed that as "indentured labourers", the majority of them would have been associated with the rural churches and other dominations. Only those working near the capital or hospitalized are probably in the Anglican Cathedral records. In off-line discussions with Marcos he opined :- "Actually I think I remember that Empress Eugenie, who got out of France with a lot of money, set up a foundation to baptize 'heathens' that may have been run through the Anglican Church worldwide. These baptisms in SV were probably paid for by the foundation. Somewhere along the line she got the idea that God was punishing her for her previous extravagant lifestyle." Has anyone noticed the involvement of an "Empress Eugenie" or similar Islanders to the new arrivals? Jim C. ps Over the years, SVG has produced stamps on many subjects. There is one showing a ship ferrying people between India and the West Indies. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Anderson" <timuna@starpower.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 2:37 AM Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent Presbyterian Church. > I have just 2 observations to add to this thread. I have gone over > the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada from 1860 to 1931 as they > exist on the LDS microfilms. Concerning East Indians in the latter > part of the 19th: in the 1870s and 1880s about 50% of the baptisms > were for East Indian children and adults; the reason that I know this > is that the parish records clearly label these people as either > "coolie" or "native of Calcutta" or something similar. > > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:29:29 +0000 (UTC), richwyn@idirect.com > ("Richard Allicock") wrote: > > >I found James Cropper's posting, which I have edited below, very interesting > >and very re-freshing compared to the British Guiana experience and maybe > >that of Trinidad and Jamaica. I will leave others on the list knowledgeable > >about the situation in the last two countries to say what the situation was > >there. But in British Guiana, where the London Missionary Society had gotten > >a foot-hold before slavery was abolished, and since the LMS was the local > >arm of the Abolitionists movement, the LMS did not take kindly to the > >arrival of the East Indians. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. >

I am replying to a message posted by Helen Black on 19 April, 2001 regarding her search for Palmers in Grenada (the message is copied below). I apologise for sending this to the list however, Helen's direct email address is no longer valid. Dear Helen I am new to the Caribbean List and I came across your email on the surname list. I too am researching McEwen /Palmer. Henry Palmer married Sophia Williams children Felix b ?1792, Henry/Harry Btp in Grenada 18th Dec 1796 and maybe another son George. the death of a George Palmer is recorded in Grenada in 1815. Time of Henry Palmer's death is unknown, on 19th April 1801 Sophia married David McEwen who is our connection. I have further information if you think there could be some connection. Regards Camille McEwen ---- Original Message ----- From: helenblack To: CARIBBEAN LIST Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 5:11 PM Subject: WAR & TRADE in the West Indies Dear Listers and Ann Hartley, I am just new to the list. Just joined yesterday and I have been following the suggested instructions to observe what is transpiring with the list to get the feel and then present my information etc. It looks like I have just missed out on some interesting information from you,Ann, regarding the War and Trade in the Caribbean by Richard Pares. I am searching for information on PALMERS who left England in the late 1700's and had children born there in the early 1820's then emigrated to Ontario, Canada. Perhaps that information on War and Trade would have given me an idea what was drawing these relatives down there. My great grandfather and his brothers were born in the West Indies, Barbados in particular. The story goes that my ggrandf was in the military there before leaving to Canada to farm and that he was receiving a military pension. Was there a war going on there in the 1840's? Can anyone give me some suggestion or feeling of the times? Kindest regards, Helen Black helenblack@sprint.ca Genealogy Study: GRAHAM,MCEWEN,GOW,NAIRN-Scotland GRAHAM,BROOKFIELD,CROOK SHANKS-England/Canada PALMER,PELLS,DARKE-England/WEST INDIES/Canada

I don't know if there could be any parallel with the situation I have found for the Chesapeake around the time of the War of 1812. My researches into the four thousand African American slaves who took their freedom during that war by way of the Royal Navy, and who settled in Trinidad, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, shows that at least 60% of slaves in Maryland and Virginia at that time had surnames. The point I want to make, though, is that in almost every case the slaveholders themselves did not acknowledge these surnames, on principle it seems, and it is mainly through neighbours' affidavits or through the names quoted by the refugees themselves that I have collected the information. Mostly these were small farms, with a fair amount of movement by slaves, both from week to week (to visit family members or to take their own garden produce to market) or from year to year, being sold from one farm to another, which I suspect is a very different picture from Jamaican plantation slavery, but it is quite possible that in some cases slaves in Jamaica had surnames that their proprietors knew nothing about. John Weiss http://homepage.virgin.net/john.weiss/trinidad/trinidad.html

Hello Vanda, Your question is not stupid. Being new myself, I have asked many stupid questions only to find out that they have normal answers. You will get good advise from some people and smartass ones from others. You will also find on this group, some people with incredible amounts of information who will astonish you with their knowledge. There are also those who have answers but tend to hold them close and you need to pry it out of them. As a novice myself, I can only say hang in there and dont let anyone discourage you. Tony Figueroa WshireSD@aol.com wrote:OK - I am going to ask a stupid question - but would like a sensible answer. Are there any records of people who were on merchant ships from England to the West Indies. Does the West Indies mean the same as the Caribbean??? (Sorry - that must sound incredibly stupid) I am looking for Walter BEBBINGTON born in England in 1882 and George BEBBINGTON born in Bristol, 1946. Thanks VANDA ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES What is a Mailing List? http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

Ross Bay,Victoria,B.C./Jamaica connection. Here's something which might interest those with surnames Barnes, Trutch and/or O'Reilley. Found at: > http://collections.ic.gc.ca/peh/issues/cemetery.htm > In loving memory of > Charlotte Hannah > relict of William Trutch > and only child of Joseph and Hannah Barnes > of Kingston, Jamaica > Born c. Nov. 1709, died 7 Nov. 1876 Joan

Yes Venda, Caribbean, Caribes, West Indies, West India, are all the same, the problem is to figure out the specific Island. Try this site: http://www.theshipslist.com/ Ann "Sharing the information." Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados ----Original Message Follows---- From: WshireSD@aol.com Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Ships to the West Indies Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:44:46 EDT OK - I am going to ask a stupid question - but would like a sensible answer. Are there any records of people who were on merchant ships from England to the West Indies. Does the West Indies mean the same as the Caribbean??? (Sorry - that must sound incredibly stupid) I am looking for Walter BEBBINGTON born in England in 1882 and George BEBBINGTON born in Bristol, 1946. Thanks VANDA ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES What is a Mailing List? http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Edward Crawford wrote: > .... In individual cases >planters, with a crisis of "conscience", may swiftly have had all the >baptisms registered and given their slaves surnames but again, it is only an >impression, large slave owners with hundreds of slaves, seldom did so. I >also have the impression, and I have done no numerical analysis of this, >that the vast majority and perhaps overwhelming majority, of slaves of mixed >race were given surnames.... I should have explained that I am dealing with two lists for the same owner(s), each list being of substantially over 100 slaves. So far I have transcribed a page and a half (47 male slaves). All but 2 (Africans) are Creole in origin; all but 4 (Mulattos) of the Creole are Negro in colour; only one has a single name (Bacchus, Negro, 41, Creole, [son of] Bagnols). I gather that Charles N. Pallmer MP (one of the "owners" by virtue of his marriage) spoke in Parliament in 1816 against Wiberforce's speeches, and was sent supporting views by those opposed to emancipation. He may well have defensively tried to reduce targets for personal attack.