Hi Ann, I am interested in the Simmons´es and have done a lot of research in connection with St Thomas and the Netherland Antilles. What do you know about Statian Simmons´es moving to St Croix? Please, welcome to my homepage at http://w1.176.telia.com/~u17612143/ Regards, Gosta ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Från: "Ann Whiting" <aqw8326@hotmail.com> Till: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Skickat: den 20 juni 2003 05:30 Ämne: Re: Estate two friends on St.Croix > Jason, > > I have Brewster, Busby, who came to St. Croix about the same time as Gov. > Heyliger, from Stacia, McBean, Clendenin, Hewitt, Dyer, Bryan, Petersen, > Saunders, Hendricks, My St. Thomas people Adams, Benjamin, Francis, > Monsanto, Simmons, Quetel, Gereau, Christian, Francois, DelVallie, Jarvis, > and those are the ones off the top of my head. > > I am trying to find the census' for 1860-1911, > My faternal frandfather died sometime before 1917, so he does not show on > the census, his wife does not show either, but I think that she did not give > up her danish citizenship at the transfer. > Let me know if you want the maps and list > Ann > > > "Sharing the information." > Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Jnlnjack@aol.com > Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Estate two friends on St.Croix > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:42:27 EDT > > Ann, > > I have read every book that I could find in NYC on early St.Croix > history/genealogy. I thank you for the email. I am still looking for the > elusive key > bit of info to take me to the next island back. I have Heyliger, Richardson > and > dewindt genealogies. I have copies of the beck map and the earlier map that > he copied his from. I have some of the early tax list info. I have bits of > property info. I have plantation histories, etc. I guess I have been off > the > topic for a while and am rusty. At some point I will go thru my file boxes > and organize the st.croix files. I need to put them online. Do you know > Heather Nielsen? She has been very helpful to me this past year. I have > quite a > bit of posts on the various lists that are for st.croix genealogy. The 300 > person list you mentioned is the one from 1767 or so? I have that one, > thanks. > Perhaps we could compare notes sometime. What are your surnames for the > early 1700s? Mine are heyliger, Ruan, Gumbs, DeWindt, Richardson, BArnes, > etc. > > regards, > Jason Carpenter > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been asked > on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or > thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can search > the archives at > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ >

There were more than just one group of Caribs on St. Vincent. As well as the majority who were racially mixed there were also relatively remote unalloyed Caribs. Some of the Black Caribs also remained neutral or switched sides. When the majority were sent to Rotan there were also Caribs both Red and Black who were allowed to remain.

I know that Grace was indeed related to the Simmonses and that George Simmons who was Administrator of St. John was regarded as part our family but we do not know exactly how.

George is the nephew of W.E.R.A.P. Simmons Ann "Sharing the information." Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Gosta Simmons" <gosta.simmons@swipnet.se> Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Estate two friends on St.Croix Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:02:08 +0200 Hi Ann, I am interested in the SimmonsŽes and have done a lot of research in connection with St Thomas and the Netherland Antilles. What do you know about Statian SimmonsŽes moving to St Croix? Please, welcome to my homepage at http://w1.176.telia.com/~u17612143/ Regards, Gosta ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Från: "Ann Whiting" <aqw8326@hotmail.com> Till: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Skickat: den 20 juni 2003 05:30 Ämne: Re: Estate two friends on St.Croix > Jason, > > I have Brewster, Busby, who came to St. Croix about the same time as Gov. > Heyliger, from Stacia, McBean, Clendenin, Hewitt, Dyer, Bryan, Petersen, > Saunders, Hendricks, My St. Thomas people Adams, Benjamin, Francis, > Monsanto, Simmons, Quetel, Gereau, Christian, Francois, DelVallie, Jarvis, > and those are the ones off the top of my head. > > I am trying to find the census' for 1860-1911, > My faternal frandfather died sometime before 1917, so he does not show on > the census, his wife does not show either, but I think that she did not give > up her danish citizenship at the transfer. > Let me know if you want the maps and list > Ann > > > "Sharing the information." > Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Jnlnjack@aol.com > Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Estate two friends on St.Croix > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:42:27 EDT > > Ann, > > I have read every book that I could find in NYC on early St.Croix > history/genealogy. I thank you for the email. I am still looking for the > elusive key > bit of info to take me to the next island back. I have Heyliger, Richardson > and > dewindt genealogies. I have copies of the beck map and the earlier map that > he copied his from. I have some of the early tax list info. I have bits of > property info. I have plantation histories, etc. I guess I have been off > the > topic for a while and am rusty. At some point I will go thru my file boxes > and organize the st.croix files. I need to put them online. Do you know > Heather Nielsen? She has been very helpful to me this past year. I have > quite a > bit of posts on the various lists that are for st.croix genealogy. The 300 > person list you mentioned is the one from 1767 or so? I have that one, > thanks. > Perhaps we could compare notes sometime. What are your surnames for the > early 1700s? Mine are heyliger, Ruan, Gumbs, DeWindt, Richardson, BArnes, > etc. > > regards, > Jason Carpenter > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been asked > on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or > thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can search > the archives at > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Dear Gosta, I am related to George Simmons both on my mother's and father's side, George's wife is also releated mo my dad's side of the family. Here's what I have. Ann Descendants of Johnny Simmons 1 Johnny Simmons b: in Saba, Netherland, West Indies ...... 2 Peter Simmons b: in Saba, Netherland West Indies d: Abt. 1894 in Off Cape Hatteras .......... +Inez Dinzey Horton b: 1853 in Saba, Netherland, West Indies ............... 3 Clinton Simmons b: in St. Eustatius, Netherland West Indies ................... +Nellie Degraff b: in St. Eustatius, Netherland West Indies ....................... 4 George Renald Simmons b: February 25, 1905 in St.Thomas, Virgin Islands d: May 06, 1976 in St.Thomas, Virgin Islands ........................... +Ubaldina Francis b: March 31, 1910 in St.Thomas, Virgin Islands Father: Christian Francis Mother: Lourencia Agusta Benjamin ................................ 5 Beryl Simmons b: January 05, 1934 in ST. Thomas, Virgin Islands .................................... +Milton Samuel ........................................ 6 Ian Simmons b: September 03, 1975 ................................ 5 Eldra Simmons b: April 10, 1936 in St. Thomas/US Virgin Islands ....................... *Friend of George Renald Simmons: ........................... +Unknown Harrigan ................................ 5 Helen Simmons b: October 25, 1930 in St. Thomas/US Virgin Islands ....................... *Friend of George Renald Simmons: ........................... +Edna Michaels b: in St. Thomas/US Virgin Islands Father: Michaels ................................ 5 Ronald Simmons b: in St. Thomas/US Virgin Islands ....................... 4 Maria Simmons ........................... +Walter Waterson ................................ 5 Debra Waterson ................................ 5 Shelly Waterson ................................ 5 Peter Waterson ....................... *2nd Husband of Maria Simmons: ........................... +Theodore Edwards ................................ 5 Ria Edwards ................................ 5 Alexis Edwards ................................ 5 Rondella Edwards ....................... 4 Audrey Simmons b: July 02, 1908 in St. Thomas, Virgin Islands d: March 1981 ........................... +Frank Percy ................................ 5 Albion Percy ................................ 5 Frank Percy, Jr ................................ 5 Eldra Percy ................................ 5 Charles Percy ................................ 5 Anthony Percy ....................... 4 Eldra Simmons ........................... +Sidney Hasbourne ................................ 5 Charles Hasbourne ........................................ 6 Tiffany Hasbourne ................................ 5 Anthony Hasbourne ....................... 4 Amy Simmons ........................... +Charles Patterson b: in North Carolina ................................ 5 William Patterson ....................... 4 Inez Simmons ........................... +Max Baird ................................ 5 Alfred Baird ....................... 4 May Simmons ........................... +Alvaro DeLugo ................................ 5 Beverly DeLugo ................................ 5 Brenda DeLugo ................................ 5 Sharlene DeLugo ................................ 5 Robert DeLugo ................................ 5 Charles DeLugo ....................... 4 Theodore Simmons ........................... +Cynthia ................................ 5 Theodore Simmons, Jr ....................... 4 Randolph Simmons ........................... +Katherine Esanderson ............... 3 James Simmons b: in Saba, Netherland, West Indies ............... 3 Engle Simmons ............... 3 Waldron Eugene Richard Avid Peter Simmons b: February 03, 1879 in Saba, Netherland West Indies d: September 22, 1948 in Portsmoth, Virginia ................... +Elaine Simmons b: in Saba, Netherland, West Indies Father: Engle Heyliger Simmons Mother: Emilie Elizabeth Lambert ............... *2nd Wife of Waldron Eugene Richard Avid Peter Simmons: ................... +Blanche Barraud b: in Portsmoth, Virginia d: June 06, 1960 ...... 2 Donny Simmons "Sharing the information." Researching the USVI, St.Eustatius, St. Barts, Barbados ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Gosta Simmons" <gosta.simmons@swipnet.se> Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Estate two friends on St.Croix Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:02:08 +0200 Hi Ann, I am interested in the SimmonsŽes and have done a lot of research in connection with St Thomas and the Netherland Antilles. What do you know about Statian SimmonsŽes moving to St Croix? Please, welcome to my homepage at http://w1.176.telia.com/~u17612143/ Regards, Gosta _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

The Clarkes that I know about and am related to were David Ross Clarke (1800-1861) who married Elizabeth Ann Hall in 1827 in Jamaica. They left Jamaica permanently in 1853. To be precise I am related to Elizabeth Hall. David Ross Clarke had no brothers called William and that is as far as my knowledge goes. So I cannot help you. Edward Crawford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Obaker" <bobaker@zoominternet.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:17 PM Subject: Germans in Jamaica > I have just received documentation that an ancestor of ours, William > OEBBIKA, was baptized at Saint Patrick's Catholic Church in Kingston on > November 23, 1834. He was born October 30, 1834 to Ferdinand and Agatha > OEBBIKKA. The copy says that Ferdinand was a native of Germany and Agatha > was formerly FAIRE (I'm assuming that's her maiden name). It also says that > William was born at Woodfield in the parish of St. Ann and the sponsors were > William CLARKE and Honoria CLARKE. > > This information raises a number of questions that I'm hoping some of you > who know so much more about the history of Jamaica can answer: > 1. Where is/was Woodfield in St. Ann's parish? Was that the name of a > plantation? > 2. Who were the CLARKE's - were they plantation owners? Clarke certainly > doesn't sound German, so I'm wondering if the sponsors were Jamaican > citizen's for whom Ferdinand and Agatha worked. > 3. When did ships with German workers arrive in Jamaica in 1834? Does > anyone know where to find these ship records? > > Thank you all for your help! Ferdinand and Agatha left Jamaica in 1840 and > were living in Maryland by the end of 1840. > Barbara Vogele Obaker > Allegheny County, PA > Researching: > PA: > Vogele-Frye-Berkey-Seger-Claycomb-Buell-Penrod-Shaffer-Oats-Bittner-Bishop-D > ibert-Berkebile-Zimmerman-Ripple-Clark-Obaker-Coughenour-Bennett-Lang-Beatty > -Woodward-Klites-Bruck-Whipkey > MD: Obaker-Goodwin-Knapp-Stegemuller > VA: Hankins-Flippin-DeJarnette-Staples-Sudberry-Mumford > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > ______________________________________________________________ > This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, > powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please > visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk. > ______________________________________________________________ This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk.

Dear Sara, Here is an e-mail sent to me two summers ago by Jill Grey from a site I believe she monitors on India. Hope you can use this info also. Nevilla -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: RICHARD OTTLEY of the Madras Staff Corps 6 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:37:53 +0100 From: "Jill Grey" <JillGrey@dial.pipex.com> To: "Nevilla E. Ottley" <clasebon@erols.com> Dear Nevilla, The entry for Richard Ottley in Hart's Army List, 1873, is as follows .... Capt.Richard Ottley, Adjutant 2 Cavalry, Hyderabad Contingent 16 years service Last Regiment : 3rd European Cornet : 20 Dec 1857 Lieut : 16 Feb 1860 Capt : 20 Dec 1869 Was employed on field service in the Saugor and Nerbudda Territories in the suppression of the Indian mutiny from 19th June 1858 to 1859 (Medal with Clasp for Central India). ------------------------ I take it you've found the Revd Warner Beckingham Ottley, M.A., Chaplain of Berhampore and Chittapore ; appointed 1847 (Senior Chaplains, Madras Ecclesiastical Dept.) ------------ Lieut John Walter Ottley appears in the same Army List with the following entry - Corps of Royal Engineers Lieutenant John Walter Ottley, Executive Engineer, 4th Grade, D.P.Works, 1st Sept 1872, 2nd Division, Baree Doab Canal, Punjaub : 15 Jan 1864. He's also in John F.Riddick's _Who Was Who in British India_ (1998) as follows - b.22 July 1841 ; s of Major Thomas Henry Ottley ; m 1884, Emily Dobell. Educ.: Royal Grammar School, Lancaster ; Lycee Charlemagne, Paris ; RMA, Woolwich. 1864 commissioned and assigned to RE ; for a time was Dep.Sec.Govt of India ; served as Insp.-Gen.of Irrigation, India ; 1897-98 appointed Brig.-Gen. and Engr-in-Chief of Tirah Expedition ; 1899-1906 became President of Royal Indian Engineering Coll. Publications : _Col.Ottley's Score Register_ 1900. Honours : KCIE, KGStJ. d 24 Jan 1931. And some additional information on this Ottley from _Who Was Who, 1929-1940_ .... C.I.E. 1892 Director R.& K.Railway and Technical Records b. Malligaum (Bombay Presidency) 22 July 1841 m.1884, Emily, d.of late Henry William Dobell (sometime Comptroller-Gen.of H.M.Customs) Commanded 5th Batt.Sussex Vol.Regiment Decorated : eminent services in connection with irrigation in India Address : Leyton, Eastbourne -------------------- There don't seem to be any other Ottleys serving in India in the biographical dictionaries or Army Lists that I have to hand. Jill (Cambridge, UK) > > Dear Jill, > > I happened upon your notice in the India list archives, and was > wondering what, if any, other information you may have on that Richard > Ottley, or on any other Ottleys that served in India. > > Thanks, > > Nevilla E. Ottley in Maryland > clasebon@erols.com >

Thanks, Cheryl, This is certainly interesting that the name Wynne appears as a middle name in the Ottley and the Oliver families. Of course the Robert Wynne I have in these records was in England and also in the Caribbean with Richard Ottley (1770-1775) also from Saint Vincent, and later from Dunstan Park, in England, where according to his daughter, Elizabeth's diary (1772), was also in England, for he was forever visiting their home. Nevilla Nneka X wrote: > Nevilla, > > I have a Robert Wynne Oliver who died of wounds at Barrouallie in St > Vincent on Aug 18, 1795. This info comes from Kingstown, St Vincent St > George's Cathedral burial transcripts. His death came five months > after the death of Carib chief Chatoyer on March 14, 1795. He may have > been wounded in a British skirmish of some sort aimed at crushing the > Caribs completely. The Caribs finally surrendered in June 1796 and > were dispossessed of all their agricultural lands. They were later > exiled to Roatan. > > Cheryl > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > >

Hi James, You write :- >I have gone through the Transcripts of St. George Cathedral, > Kingstown, St. Vincent from 1765-1870. I am seeking information on the birth of William NEILSON in St Vincent in 1846. Do you perchance have any record of this, or can you point me in the right direction for this information. I am, in particular, looking for mother's name and address and father's occupation. Many thanks for any help. Roger McCracken sarsol@gippsnet.com.au --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003

Thank you - at least I know not to pursue those Clarke's. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Crawford" <tcrawford@revhist.datanet.co.uk> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:08 AM Subject: Re: Germans in Jamaica > The Clarkes that I know about and am related to were David Ross Clarke > (1800-1861) who married Elizabeth Ann Hall in 1827 in Jamaica. They left > Jamaica permanently in 1853. To be precise I am related to Elizabeth Hall. > David Ross Clarke had no brothers called William and that is as far as my > knowledge goes. So I cannot help you. > Edward Crawford > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara Obaker" <bobaker@zoominternet.net> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:17 PM > Subject: Germans in Jamaica > > > > I have just received documentation that an ancestor of ours, William > > OEBBIKA, was baptized at Saint Patrick's Catholic Church in Kingston on > > November 23, 1834. He was born October 30, 1834 to Ferdinand and Agatha > > OEBBIKKA. The copy says that Ferdinand was a native of Germany and Agatha > > was formerly FAIRE (I'm assuming that's her maiden name). It also says > that > > William was born at Woodfield in the parish of St. Ann and the sponsors > were > > William CLARKE and Honoria CLARKE. > > > > This information raises a number of questions that I'm hoping some of you > > who know so much more about the history of Jamaica can answer: > > 1. Where is/was Woodfield in St. Ann's parish? Was that the name of a > > plantation? > > 2. Who were the CLARKE's - were they plantation owners? Clarke > certainly > > doesn't sound German, so I'm wondering if the sponsors were Jamaican > > citizen's for whom Ferdinand and Agatha worked. > > 3. When did ships with German workers arrive in Jamaica in 1834? Does > > anyone know where to find these ship records? > > > > Thank you all for your help! Ferdinand and Agatha left Jamaica in 1840 > and > > were living in Maryland by the end of 1840. > > Barbara Vogele Obaker > > Allegheny County, PA > > Researching: > > PA: > > > Vogele-Frye-Berkey-Seger-Claycomb-Buell-Penrod-Shaffer-Oats-Bittner-Bishop-D > > > ibert-Berkebile-Zimmerman-Ripple-Clark-Obaker-Coughenour-Bennett-Lang-Beatty > > -Woodward-Klites-Bruck-Whipkey > > MD: Obaker-Goodwin-Knapp-Stegemuller > > VA: Hankins-Flippin-DeJarnette-Staples-Sudberry-Mumford > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin > boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, > > powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please > > visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk. > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > This message has been scanned by the Datanet VirusScreen Service, > powered by BT Ignite and Messagelabs. For more information please > visit http://www.VirusScreen.co.uk. > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > >

> Hello Listbuds, Just in during the wee hours from the Grenadines & Grenada ...... yes, I have nutmegs... and nutmeg syrup, nutmeg jams & jelly, nutmeg liquer, nutmeg essential oil, numeg ointments, etc., but no luggage. oh well. At least I left the airplanes with the aroma of St. George's Market Place. So Richard, why are you going to the US State Department? Like why would they know anything about Grenada in the 1700's when they didn't know the difference between the hospital and the rebels headquarters in 1983? In fact they didn't have a map of Grenada and had to rely on some of the American yachties -turn-island owners for landmarks (in particular, John Caldwell). I think the French should be taken into account in the movement of plants during this time as well; I'm sure you are aware of some of St. Vincent's prizes were accounted for via capture of French ships. I also think Banks was a remarkable person - and the fact that he could offer these prizes and adventures during times of great stress between England and France is nothing short of mindblowing. But I think your digging for Banks' connection with the nutmeg should be directeed towards KEW as they will have the answer and not the US State Dept. or any US governmental department. perhaps if you focused (with KEW) on what prizes were offered on various plants and who won the awards (and then we could get not only a satisfying nutmeg answer, but a grand list of people, islands and plants). i saw the Groome book and no listing of Banks but didn't expect to as it would have most likely listed some planter that actually won the prize. George Brizan's 2 books on nutmegs did acknowledge Frank Gurney. (I can give you that title when my luggage arrives if you want it - it's a Part 1, part 2 deal). Also, in 1782 Grenada was under French rule. The island was originally a coffee island, not sugar. And anyway, that's my last two cents on the matter, yet I hope you will share your findings with the List. I gotta garden knee-deep in weeds to attend to ....... Codfish, where ya been so long, man?!?! Thought you'd headed out on some deep sea fishin trawler looking for mermaids and sea monsters. Finally got ya snagged back into the List ... and whoa! along comes Jim Lynch up the line with ya. Glad to have you both back ... is it just by chance that it's hurricane season? Cheryl and Nevilla, once my luggage arrives I have a wee bagatelle written on a piece of paper for both of you - short, but powerful ting. Something in there for you too, Jim Cropper and Marcos. Jan B - only Campbells I'm chasing these days are Alexander and James from Grenada (and London & Edinburgh). But, well.... always listening. Oh yeah Cheryl, before I forget - Adams were from Wales and Hazells from Saba (dat de word from La Pompe). So news from the islands - rain, rain, rain on Grenada and a bit of a shower in the Grenadines (Carriacou to Bequia)... but just a bit. Cricket match held in St. Vincent but a sad day for the West Indies team (good crowd though and declared a public holiday). Transportation between islands gets worse but who really cares, you eventually get there (unless its a public holiday). Both Grenada and SVG are gearing up for Carnival! Big music shows and parties. Cheryl, de new Miss SVG is from Union Level, Bequia. Great time to be down there as tourists are at a low level, cruise ships other than windjammers - don't exist. AND expect a new book on Grenada history in August with UWI Press by Beverley Steele. Oh and if any of you know Grenada.... the new feather in my cap is I climbed Mt. Qua Qua after it rained for 6 hours the night before - and SURVIVED to tell the tale (though we had to bribe a monkey out of the car afterwards). Bagatelles to follow (when/if luggage arrives), best wishes all, Cindy the whale woman/bag lady And a double P.S. remember that list of Grenadian historians I listed as "would love to hold an audience with" ..... met 2! >

I have just received documentation that an ancestor of ours, William OEBBIKA, was baptized at Saint Patrick's Catholic Church in Kingston on November 23, 1834. He was born October 30, 1834 to Ferdinand and Agatha OEBBIKKA. The copy says that Ferdinand was a native of Germany and Agatha was formerly FAIRE (I'm assuming that's her maiden name). It also says that William was born at Woodfield in the parish of St. Ann and the sponsors were William CLARKE and Honoria CLARKE. This information raises a number of questions that I'm hoping some of you who know so much more about the history of Jamaica can answer: 1. Where is/was Woodfield in St. Ann's parish? Was that the name of a plantation? 2. Who were the CLARKE's - were they plantation owners? Clarke certainly doesn't sound German, so I'm wondering if the sponsors were Jamaican citizen's for whom Ferdinand and Agatha worked. 3. When did ships with German workers arrive in Jamaica in 1834? Does anyone know where to find these ship records? Thank you all for your help! Ferdinand and Agatha left Jamaica in 1840 and were living in Maryland by the end of 1840. Barbara Vogele Obaker Allegheny County, PA Researching: PA: Vogele-Frye-Berkey-Seger-Claycomb-Buell-Penrod-Shaffer-Oats-Bittner-Bishop-D ibert-Berkebile-Zimmerman-Ripple-Clark-Obaker-Coughenour-Bennett-Lang-Beatty -Woodward-Klites-Bruck-Whipkey MD: Obaker-Goodwin-Knapp-Stegemuller VA: Hankins-Flippin-DeJarnette-Staples-Sudberry-Mumford

Jim Croper wrote (Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:42 PM): "While Tim has gone through the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada from > 1860 to 1931, I have gone through the Transcripts of St. George Cathedral, > Kingstown, St. Vincent from 1765-1870. I became intrigued with entries when > the "coolies" start appearing in the early 1860's. Their place of birth is > not given in most cases but there were some from Madras and Calcutta. > Madras and Calcutta seem likely to be the ports the indentured "coolies" > embarked from rather than their actual birthplaces. Most parents are > referred to in East Indian names with the children baptized with "English" > names. > ................. > >.....Baptisms starting in the late 1860's. ..........occurred in the Colonial Hospital. The hospitalized child and > their siblings are baptized but not the parents. Many at the Cathedral > involve adults receiving "Christian" names with no mention of "East Indian" > names. There are no entries in Marriages and the Burials cut off at 1855. > These entries are a minority of the total. It is assumed that as > "indentured labourers", the majority of them would have been associated with > the rural churches and other dominations. Only those working near the > capital or hospitalized are probably in the Anglican Cathedral records." > > **************** My Comment: Once again Jim Cropper has made a very significant contibution to this thread, previously in regard to the efforts of the Presbyterian Church in St. Vincent and now in regard to the Anglican Church. ( I have edited the message above). Both Churches seem to have been very quick to embrace the arriving East Indians to their respective churches. The question to be asked is: "Were these Hindus being baptised or were they already Christians from India? Were the Baptisms with or without the consent of the parents? Was this the embrace of Christians from another area, or the "saving of Heathen souls"? If the former, why aren't the parents names mentioned, or the East Indian names of the children? If the parents were Christians from India, why aren't their Baptismal names mentioned? It must be remembered that Calcutta (along with Madras and Bombay) were the principal areas of British dominance/influence via the the East India Company, beginning in 1608. By 1717 the BEI Co. was exempt from paying taxes and a few years after 1757, when they defeated the Nawab of Bengal at the Battle of Plassey, they were empowered to collect revenues for the Moghul Emperor. That authority basically meant that the Company ruled Bengal. Hence the indentured immigrants were coming from an area of long established Britishh religious influence. It must also be remembered that the foundation of Social Darwinism had already been enunciated in 1857 with the publication of Herbert Spencer's Essay. By 1899 we get Rudyard Kipling's poem, "The White Man's Burden which was not a general call to racial imperialism, (although it may have been an expression of it), but an exhortation to the US to assume the tasks of developing the Phillipines after victory in the Spanish-American War. We must also remember, that the Spanish and Portuguese had very early decided upon a policy of baptising the natives and Africans before imposing slavery on them. And yet by the 18th century we have slave traders like the famous John Newton, who was later an abolitionist, and author of "Amazing Grace"; of other traders being troubled in their conscience that they were dealing with human beings, but did it any way for pay and profit; and others who were to even deny that African slaves had souls or were human beings. In England, when the Walloons and Huguenots started to arrive fleeing persecution in the 16th Century, the parents were alowed their own congregations but the children were enrolled in Anglican Churches, although I am yet to establish how long this policy lasted, but a policy it initially was. In North America, right in this century, in Canada, a policy was decided upon, with the collaboration of the Christian Churches, to forcibly assimilate the children of Natives in Residential Schools. They were forbidden to use their Indian names and to speak their native languages. So I wonder now what really was going on in relation the East Indians and the Anglican Church in St. Vincent. Were children and parents subsequently welcomed as members of the Church? If so why not weddings in the church and burials after 1855? Another great post Jim! Thanks! Richard ---- Original Message ----- From: "James W Cropper" <jameswcropper@sympatico.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent Presbyterian Church.

Nevilla, I have a Robert Wynne Oliver who died of wounds at Barrouallie in St Vincent on Aug 18, 1795. This info comes from Kingstown, St Vincent St George's Cathedral burial transcripts. His death came five months after the death of Carib chief Chatoyer on March 14, 1795. He may have been wounded in a British skirmish of some sort aimed at crushing the Caribs completely. The Caribs finally surrendered in June 1796 and were dispossessed of all their agricultural lands. They were later exiled to Roatan. Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

http://atransition.com/richblessing.htm

To Tim Wilkinson, Mary McKinley and John Smith, and other interested in the Ottley genealogy, I received from a Chris Warner the 1772 diary of Elizabeth Ottley (born in the 1750s) who lived in Dunstan Park in England. Her father was Richard Ottley (1730-1775) of Saint Vincent and later of Dunstan Park. She mentions a visitor who frequented their home in England, and his name was Mr. Wynne. I still don't know how the Wynne came into the family, but I know they were friends. I know we were trying to find the ancestry of Benjamin Wynne Ottley. Whether the child was named after the friend, or whether the friend's family married into the Ottley family, I am still to find out, but besides the records you have of Robert Wynne being in the commissioned group that was sent to Dominica with Richard Ottley, most likely ELizabeth's father, whom she notes in her diary as always visiting the West Indies, here is another fact that lets us know that the Wynne family was definitely friendly with the Ottley family. Hope you are all well, Nevilla

Hi Vanda and the rest of the group! I have been a lurker for a while. There is a England website called Moving Here. www.movinghere.org.uk It has a listing of ships that traveled from the islands to england so if they made a trip back to england it may be recorded there. Lue <WshireSD@aol.com> wrote in message news:184.1ce238aa.2c27612e@aol.com... > OK - I am going to ask a stupid question - but would like a sensible answer. > > Are there any records of people who were on merchant ships from England to > the West Indies. Does the West Indies mean the same as the Caribbean??? (Sorry - > that must sound incredibly stupid) > > I am looking for Walter BEBBINGTON born in England in 1882 > > and George BEBBINGTON born in Bristol, 1946. > > Thanks > VANDA >

The islands of Bahamas, Barbados and Bermuda are all often grouped with the former British West Indies and the Caribbean culturally but also boast being geographic exceptions. The Bahamas and Barbados are the one just north and the other just east of the Caribbean. Bermuda is much closer to Virginia. The Guyanas have a Caribbean culture but are located in South America. Belize is on the Caribbean but part of Central America. It used to have a population majority of descendants of immigrants from Bermuda and the islands of Jamaica, the Caymans and St. Vincent. Today the majority population has switched to other Central Americans.

In a message dated 6/23/2003 5:32:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, luebowes@rogers.com writes: > www.movinghere.org.uk > What an interesting site - thanks for sending the information to me - I have had two hours of fascinating research VANDA

Hello Sara, Yes, indeed, there were Ottleys, many of them, that served in the military in India. One of the famous ones was Major General Coghill Glendower Ottley 1806-ca. 1891, who was a musician, a "missionary", an engineer (he invented a certain type of horse shoe and a buggy that worked in that area), and an agriculturalist. He was the son of Richard (born 1772) Ottley, the brother of the famous art historian, William Young Ottley (1771-82), and of Brook Taylor Ottley (born 1773), another military person to whom George III wrote a letter of commendation. His nephew, Sir Richard Ottley (born 1782 in St. Vincent, died 1845 France) was knighted by George IV in 1822, and served as Chief Justice in Grenada, and later as one of the Judges in Ceylon. These are just two of the Ottleys who served in India. Glendower was in Madras I believe. I have a copy of his obituary, which I can later scan and send to you. Some time ago, I did stumble upon something on the internet about Ottleys in India, or someone sent it to me. I shall research it again, and send it when I find it. I probably have it recorded in my archives, but cannot put my finger on it at the moment--must search. Sincerely, Nevilla Sara Weiss wrote: >Nevilla > >Hi - I almost feel I know you now, as John Weiss has promised that he will bring us together when you next come into his strata of the universe! > >I told him that I was intrigued by your search for all Ottleys as my ex-husband's, (David Green) mother's (Olive Green ) maiden name was Otterley, or Ottley. She was born in Madras India as her father was some kind of High Commissioner there. Do you know anything about this family - have you heard? > >I do not remember anymore except that his mother had a sister called Patricia. I don;t for instance remember his grandmother's name, I'm sorry. It's too long ago. But I will look up in my family research and see if I put something in there, however, I have looked briefly and all I have put in the family trees I have looked in so far is his name only. > >Sara Weiss >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Nevilla E. Ottley" <clasebon@erols.com> >To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 2:34 PM >Subject: [Fwd: OLLIVIERRE - OTTLEY] > > >> >>-------- Original Message -------- >>Subject: OLLIVIERRE - OTTLEY >>Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:22:04 -0400 >>From: "James W Cropper" <jameswcropper@sympatico.ca> >>To: "Nevilla E. Ottley & Edgar E. Adjahoe" <clasebon@erols.com> >> >> >> >>Hi Nevilla, >> >>There is a problem with my Server and posting to the Caribbean List. I >>posted the following on the OLLIVIERRE Family Site. >> >>Jim >> >>Hi Cheryl. Have been trying to answer your inquiry on the Caribbean List >>- perhaps this will work. My server Sympatico has been blacklisted by >>Rootsweb so I can't post. Further to Nevilla's information, the St. >>George Cathedral records show :- >> >>- William Anthony OTTLEY (born ca 1815 - ? ) - Writing Clerk - married >>30 May 1838 - Frances OLLIVIERRE (born ca 1816 - died 03 Mar 1846 age >>30). His Father could have been the William suggested by Nevilla viz. >>William OTTLEY (born 1797 - baptised 15 Dec 1797 - buried 24 Apr 1820 >>age 23 all in SV) - Educated at Trinity Hall, Cambridge - Will dated 03 >>Oct 1819 proved 05 Jul 1820. The Will may be in the SV Courthouse which >>should provide additional info. She could have been the Francais >>DeROCHE/OLIVIER/OLLIVIERRE (baptised 27 Nov 1815) as suggested by others. >> >>William & Frances had at least 2 children. Mary Frances OTTLEY (born ca >>1839 - baptised 23 Jul 1839). Margaret Amelia OTTLEY (born ca 1841 - >>baptised 04 Jul 1841). >> >> >> >>==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >>To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest. >> > > >==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== >ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES >What is a Mailing List? >http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > >