Bonjour 3 articles at http://members.aol.com/GHCaraibe/hist/histfwi.html Many thanks to the translators : Tian Uddenberg David Watson and Ernest Wiltshire Pour ceux qui lisent le français il y a eu une mise à jour du site GHCaraibe et on peut consulter en ligne de "nouveaux" bulletins de 1991 et 1992. Bien cordialement Philippe Rossignol

Bonjour Census 1772 : Georges Lawrence from Rotterdam, gaoler. About Saint Martin there is a publication in french very useful : "Le siècle du sucre à Saint-Martin" Denise et Henri Parisis Bulletin de la société d'histoire de la Guadeloupe n° 99-102, 1994; 208 pages. List of "habitations" (plantations) with owners. French registers of Saint-Martin from 1773 have been filmed by LDS. Regards Philippe Rossignol http://members.aol.com/GHCaraibe Dans l'article <3EE4B2BF.3A8E2838@earthlink.net>, jalvel@earthlink.net (Jeanine Lawrence)a écrit : > >From: A new lister >I am researching the Lawrences/Laurences who settled in St Martin/St Maarten >in the >early 1800's, and hoping to find someone who has more information on them. We >have >been able to trace them back to 1804 and here is what we have on them so far: > >Thomas Lawrence-B ??, M: Jane Bryan >Their son: Thomas Lawrence-B:1804 in St Martin, M: Sarah Bryan >Their sons: Edward S. Lawrence B: 1840 in St Martin, M: Susanne Catherine >Vlaun > George Thomas Lawrence B: 1830 in St Martin, M: Anne Louisa >Gumbs > John Charles Lawrence B: 1837 in St Martin, M: Marie >Louisa >Becker > William Lawrence B: ??......not married >The story handed down from family is that the original settler was a mariner >trading > >between Boston and the Caribbean, or England to Boston to the Caribbean. >Will be glad to hear from anyone who has more info, or is researching St >Martin, or >knows where we can find more information about St Martin's settlers and >mariners. >Jeanine Lawrence >

Bonjour There is a novel well known about VH : El siglo de las Luces by Alejo Carpentier. I think it has been translated in english Vous pouvez lire un article sur un amour de Victor Hugues : http://www.GHCaribe.org/bul/ghc018/p0161.html Cordialement Philippe Rossignol

I had forgotten that I have something on this: a publication entitled "Naturalizations of Foreign Protestants in the American & West Indian Colonies", edited by M.S. GIUSEPPI, F.S.A, London 1921; republished 1995, Genealogical Publishing Co. Baltimore. ISBN 0-8063-0157-0. The Introduction states: "The present volume contains all the returns sent from the Colonies to the Lords Commissioners for Trade & Plantations in pursuance of the Act 12 George II c. 7 ("An Act for Naturalizing such foreign Protestants and others therein mentioned , as are settled or shall settle, in any of his Majesty's colonies in America") which have been found amongst the records of those Commissioners now classified with the records of the Colonial Office preserved at the Public Records Office." The PRO documents in question appear to be C.O. 324, 55 & 56. There are NO entries for Barbados, Antigua, Nevis, St. Christopher, Montserrat, the Bahamas or Bermuda. However there are just over five pages for Jamaica, almost all concerning "Persons Professing the Jewish Religion"., beginning 1 June 1740, an ending1 June 1751. Pages 7 to 40 cover other mainland colonies (South Carolina, Virginia, Maryland and New York). Pages 13 to 29 being Pennsylvania; and the vast majority of the naturalizations, pages 41 to 157, are all for Pennsylvania (seem to be mainly Germans, but some Quakers as well) Ernest -----Original Message----- From: Guy Grannum [mailto:guy@gcgrannum.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Re: Re:PRO Naturalization Records Tian I'm not sure what the process was in the Bahamas but in Britain until 1844 most naturalisations were through acts of Parliament. The British government did not need to know about or register naturalisations in the colonies until 1914.

Please delete me from your mailing list. Thanks very much. -----Original Message----- From: CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com [mailto:CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:43 PM To: CARIBBEAN-D@rootsweb.com Subject: CARIBBEAN-D Digest V03 #197

Tian I'm not sure what the process was in the Bahamas but in Britain until 1844 most naturalisations were through acts of Parliament. The British government did not need to know about or register naturalisations in the colonies until 1914. I'd suggest that it would have been the same in the Bahamas - in which case the place to start would be the local acts in the Bahamas (or at The National Archives (PRO), series CO 25 - arranged by date but there are summaries in CO 383). Once the naturalisation had been granted it was usual for the grant to be enrolled in the deeds or enrolment books - these are held in the Bahamas (if they survive) and could be in the archive, register office or even with the court. May be someone with a better understanding of Bahamian archives can help. It is unlikely that the grant will say anything more than x, formerly of the country of y was granted nationality on such and such date - the grant would normally extend to wife and minor children if they too were not British. You are unlikely to find correspondence or other papers at this time. One question - how do you know that they were naturalised? The process was quite expensive and for most people unnecessary unless they wanted to vote or purchase land. Hope that this helps. Guy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tian Uddenberg" <tian@shaw.ca> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 2:11 AM Subject: Re:PRO Naturalization Records > Does anybody know where I would find records of Naturalization for a > Swede living in the Bahamas, becoming a British Subject? The year of > naturalization is circa 1818. > Thanks, > Tian > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > >

Hello Vincys, here's your bagatelle - long time comin, huh? I am listing some of the names and info from the book, The Trial of George McIntosh edited by PM Gonsalves. This trial is the result of the 1935 uprising; George (Papa Mac) Augustus McIntosh (1886-1963). Here are some names you may or may not be interested in: 1. George Thomas - headteacher of Kingstown Anglican Primary School 2. John DeSouza - farmer and shopkeeper 3.Leonard Gonsalves - employee on McConnie Gill and Co. 4. Lois McMaster (good Scottish name) - Police Constable 5. Donald Romeo - unskilled worker 6. Alexander Roberts - Police Constable 7. William Wilkinson - Police Constable 8. Joseph Banfield - Police Corporal 9. Frederick John - Police Corporal 10. Daniel John - Police Lance-Corporal 11. Leonard Mayers - Licensed Huckster (someone explain that job to me!) 12. Sybil Connell - Clerk of the Legislative Council 13. Felix Oliver - captain of a sloop 13. Ephraim Morgan - occupation unknown 14. Gideon Leach - Cable & Wireless 15. Alpheus Leslie - foreman 16. Lewis DeFreitas - shopkeeper 17. Alexander Haywood - Police sargeant 18. Sybil Power - wife of the Auditor of the Windward Islands 19. Stanley DeFreitas - magistrate during this trial. George A. McIntosh born in Kingstown - father was Donald Mcintosh from Scotland and his mother was Charlotte Glasgow, a Vincentian. In the text regarding the riot we have ... "In the market, Fred Hazell shot John Bull. When the police started firing from the market into the building, I lay down flat on my stomach under the counter. Two bullets flew past several inches above my head. i was very lucky that i was not a dead man. I managed to get away and went to the fish market. ... George McIntosh was not involved but he was detained by the authorities. From what I can recall only two persons were killed - John Bull and a fellow named Lovelace whom I saw lying in Middle Street. ... Mr. Fred Hazell, a prominent merchant, killing a man known as 'John Bull' - because Mr. Hazell was part of the establishment no formal charges were brought against him." Cheryl - I don't know where the Shepherd book is at the moment - its hiding here in my office - but its been reprinted by Frank Cass - look him up (publisher) on Google. Also saw a book on Martinique and one of the writers was a Giraud! Does anybody have the dates of when a "sugar ant" attacked the sugar plantations on Martinique? Any of you old Listbuds wondering what I'm doing in the 20th century? best regards, Cindy

Hello, Can anyone on the list assist with an address for the Church of England Diocese in Jamaica. I would like to obtain permission to purchase 4 films of the Church of England parish register transcripts that have been microfilmed by the LDS Church. Thanks in advance Maureen Meyer

I have been in conversation with a Christopher Henry Ransdale Warner, a direct descendant of Sir Thomas Warner, "pioneer" to the Caribbean. I shared Cindy's information with him, and my response. He is not on the Caribbean list as yet, and I am hoping he will join us. Below is his response, and hopefully he will join the Caribbean List soon for he has information to share, and he is intrigued by what we have gleaned also. He wrote to me: "this is staggering info. we have some of this hughes business on record but not in this depth. the warner family was caught up TWICE by hughes and we have some narrative about the imprisonment . details of Lisa bursting into tears when hughes made some improper suggestions to her . when asked by hughes what was the reason for her outburst, her husband Joe replied, "she has never been in a cage with a tiger unlleashed before" or similar words. somehow i must get my hands on a copy of this book we will be able to peice together a lot from our records for future interested parties." any suggestions? christopher warner (direct line of sir thomas)" -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Grenada bagatelle Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:12:27 -0600 Resent-From: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:12:32 -0400 From: "Nevilla E. Ottley" <clasebon@erols.com> Reply-To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com References: <6DFD4582-A767-11D7-8D69-000393A1EEBC@wcvt.com> Dear Cindy, This is very interesting. Mrs. Warner may have been Elizabeth Ottley (1757-1801) who is mentioned here. She had two sisters, one Mary Trant Ottley who married in Sept 1785 to Captain Cornelius Smelt in Richmond Co: York. He was the Lieut. Governor of the Isle of Man; and the other sister was Mary Alice, who never married and probably traveled with her. cindy kilgore wrote: > A bit of a bagatelle for some of you interested in Hugues and the > rebellions occurring across the Caribbean in his wake. This is taken > from the pages of a book by Dr. John Hay of Grenada who was one of > Fedon’s 3 prisoners that were spared. The book only exists in a few > chosen libraries - one in Grenada (photocopy), British Library and > somewhere in the US (heaven knows I forgot as I’ve been trying to find > this book for about 7 years). Fascinating account by a man trusted by > the rebels and by his countrymen. He tells of the insurrection, his > prison life up on the mountain, the execution of the prisoners, and > his being sent to Guadeloupe on a prisoner exchange - which is where > this list comes from. He also speaks of his visits with Victor Hugues > and of the Warners. This particular Warner is Joseph Warner, second > son of Joseph Warner, owner of sugar plantations in St. Vincent, lived > on Gower Street, Bloomsbury. Shipley is more than likely, Sir Charles > Shipley, though I base this on his friendship with Warner than on any > document found giving a first name. > > I quote Hay as a prisoner in Guadeloupe - the prizes being captured > Brits (remember Scots are Brits - and the Scots were really, really > hated in Grenada at this time) ..... > > blah, blah, blah “...It was not many days before the unpleasant news > was confirmed; for, on the 28th of June (1795), the prizes were seen > off very early in the morning.” These prizes of Mr. Hugues were 11 > ships; listed are his English prisoners: > 1. Major Shipley, Mrs. Shipley and children - Jane and Augusta. > 2. Lt. Williams of the 61st Regt. > 3. Mr. Kittoe from London, last from Cork > 4. Mr. Hodge and son from St. Martin and William Plant of St. Lucia > 5. Dr. John Hay of Grenada (who had been one of Fedon’s prisoners up > at the “Camp”) > 6. Mr. Warner of London and his wife (sound familiar David?) and their > children, Jane, Louisa and Charlotte (Louisa would eventually be a > large landholder on Bequia) > 7. Miss Ottley (Nevilla, you reading) - Mrs. Warner’s sister > 8. Mrs. Honey and her daughter, Charlotte > 9. Mr. Rutley, a merchant with Mr. McDemott, a planter from Jamaica > 10. Mr. Mead of Montserrat and Mr. Cox of Jamaica > 11. Mr. Cox’s wife, mother and auntie > 12. Mrs. Greenland and Mrs. Richardson of Jamaica > 13. Miss Orgill > > Before you ask - I can’t give you any first names here - only copying > down as is presented in text. But in all, Hay says 500 prisoners > landed that day into Guadeloupe. > > So keeping in my promise of a short bagatelle - I bide you all a good > night and will find something in my notes tomorrow for Vincys. > > best wishes all, > Cindy > > ps - after reading this book, I climbed the mountain to Fedon’s > Camp.... (not recommended). > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > > ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the list send the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the only text in the body of an email message to CARIBBEAN-L-request@rootsweb.com for the list mode or CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.com if you are subscribed to the digest.

I knew I'd perk up some ears on this one...oh lawd, cindy...i only have a portion of Shepherd's book and I knew there was something more going on between March and August of 1795 but since I was using Edgar Adams book as the source of my info and it didnt' go into detail about the battles, I knew I would fall short. It's very true, list. There was some real drama going on in Vincy land around that time. I absolutely need Shepherd's book to add to my growing collection. Tank de lawd me have some others at hand to help me out in me time of need.....(smile) Oh yes, bag lady, you know I'm waiting on those tidbits you have for me. Looks like I'm going to have to go back to Saba, huh? Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

--part1_113.25733929.2c2bf2a6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_113.25733929.2c2bf2a6_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <ROOTS-M-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-xl01.mx.aol.com (rly-xl01.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.70]) by air-xl04.mail.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINXL42-4f753efa9269266; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:27:53 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [207.40.200.41]) by rly-xl01.mx.aol.com (v94.27) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXL18-5b23efa8f71c3; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:15:13 -0400 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id h5Q6EZC7019458 for TamureTatay@aol.com; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:14:35 -0600 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:14:35 -0600 Message-Id: <200306260614.h5Q6EZC7019458@lists5.rootsweb.com> To: TamureTatay@aol.com Subject: Re: unsubscribe References: <25.3ae02c13.2c2be953@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <25.3ae02c13.2c2be953@aol.com> X-Loop: ROOTS-M@rootsweb.com From: ROOTS-M-request@rootsweb.com Precedence: junk X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have not been removed. Your name was not on the list. What happened? Please read on: some of the following may apply... 1. Perhaps your address has changed since you initially subscribed. (For example, a lot of our CompuServe subscribers had numerical addresses when they joined the list, but now have nicknames.) It will help us close your account sooner in this case if you can tell us what your old address might have been. 2. Perhaps you are trying to unsubscribe from an alternate format of ROOTS-L. The address you used (ROOTS-M-request@rootsweb.com) is for stopping ROOTS-L in single message mode. If you are trying to unsubscribe from the index, address your unsubscribe message instead to ROOTS-I-request@rootsweb.com. For digest mode, the unsubscription address is ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com. 3. Perhaps you are trying to unsubscribe from some other mailing list entirely. If the list you want to unsubscribe from isn't ROOTS-L, then you're in wrong place, and we really can't do much to help you. You'll need to find the "welcome" message you were sent when you joined that other list, and follow the directions given in it for unsubscribing. Honest, you can't write to this address and get unsubscribed from the RSL update mailing list, nor from BROWN-L, nor from VA-ROOTS. Those lists have their own addresses for subscribing/unsubscribing, and wouldn't want us meddling in their business. ;-) 4. Perhaps you already successfully unsubscribed, but are still receiving messages. When this happens, it is usually the case that the messages were sent before you unsubscribed, but due to delays on the Internet, took a "scenic" route and ended up being delivered hours or even days later. Check when the messages were sent: if it was before you unsubscribed, then there's not a problem, the messages "in transit" will soon all be delivered and you'll not hear from us again unless/until you resubscribe. 5. None of this helps? The friendly folk at http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com can help you figure out what lists you're really subscribed to, and how to get untangled from them. Transcript of unsubscription request follows: -- >From TamureTatay@aol.com Thu Jun 26 00:14:35 2003 >Received: from mail.rootsweb.com (mail.rootsweb.com [192.168.16.34]) > by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5Q6EZgf019403 > for <ROOTS-M-request@lists5.rootsweb.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:14:35 -0600 >Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) > by mail.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h5Q6EYbZ014552 > for <ROOTS-M-request@rootsweb.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:14:34 -0600 >Received: from TamureTatay@aol.com > by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id e.25.3ae02c13 (26116) > for <ROOTS-M-request@rootsweb.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:14:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: TamureTatay@aol.com >Message-ID: <25.3ae02c13.2c2be953@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:14:43 EDT >Subject: unsubscribe >To: ROOTS-M-request@rootsweb.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 > > > --part1_113.25733929.2c2bf2a6_boundary--

--part1_193.1c6397a4.2c2bf28f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_193.1c6397a4.2c2bf28f_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-xn03.mx.aol.com (rly-xn03.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.136]) by air-xn02.mail.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINXN24-81c23efa900a161; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:17:46 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [207.40.200.41]) by rly-xn03.mx.aol.com (v94.27) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXN37-63d3efa8f581b8; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:14:48 2000 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id h5Q6EWUl019242 for TamureTatay@aol.com; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:14:32 -0600 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:14:32 -0600 Message-Id: <200306260614.h5Q6EWUl019242@lists5.rootsweb.com> To: TamureTatay@aol.com Subject: Re: unsubscribe References: <1e0.bff87a0.2c2be943@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1e0.bff87a0.2c2be943@aol.com> X-Loop: ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com From: ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com Precedence: junk X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have not been removed. Your name was not on the list. What happened? Please read on: some of the following may apply... 1. Perhaps your address has changed since you initially subscribed. (For example, a lot of our CompuServe subscribers had numerical addresses when they joined the list, but now have nicknames.) It will help us close your account sooner in this case if you can tell us what your old address might have been. 2. Perhaps you are trying to unsubscribe from an alternate format of ROOTS-L. The address you used (ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com) is for stopping the ROOTS-L digest. If you are trying to unsubscribe from the index, address your unsubscribe message instead to ROOTS-I-request@rootsweb.com. For mail mode, the unsubscription address is ROOTS-M-request@rootsweb.com. 3. Perhaps you are trying to unsubscribe from some other mailing list entirely. If the list you want to unsubscribe from isn't ROOTS-L, then you're in wrong place, and we really can't do much to help you. You'll need to find the "welcome" message you were sent when you joined that other list, and follow the directions given in it for unsubscribing. Honest, you can't write to this address and get unsubscribed from the RSL update mailing list, nor from BROWN-L, nor from VA-ROOTS. Those lists have their own addresses for subscribing/unsubscribing, and wouldn't want us meddling in their business. ;-) 4. Perhaps you already successfully unsubscribed, but are still receiving messages. When this happens, it is usually the case that the messages were sent before you unsubscribed, but due to delays on the Internet, took a "scenic" route and ended up being delivered hours or even days later. Check when the messages were sent: if it was before you unsubscribed, then there's not a problem, the messages "in transit" will soon all be delivered and you'll not hear from us again unless/until you resubscribe. 5. None of this helps? The friendly folk at http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com can help you figure out what lists you're really subscribed to, and how to get untangled from them. Transcript of unsubscription request follows: -- >From TamureTatay@aol.com Thu Jun 26 00:14:30 2003 >Received: from mail.rootsweb.com (mail.rootsweb.com [192.168.16.34]) > by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5Q6EUgf019148 > for <ROOTS-L-request@lists5.rootsweb.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:14:30 -0600 >Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) > by mail.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h5Q6ETbZ014526 > for <ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:14:29 -0600 >Received: from TamureTatay@aol.com > by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id e.1e0.bff87a0 (26116) > for <ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com>; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:14:28 -0400 (EDT) >From: TamureTatay@aol.com >Message-ID: <1e0.bff87a0.2c2be943@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:14:27 EDT >Subject: unsubscribe >To: ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 > >unsubscribe, thanks. > --part1_193.1c6397a4.2c2bf28f_boundary--

Dear Cindy, This is very interesting. Mrs. Warner may have been Elizabeth Ottley (1757-1801) who is mentioned here. She had two sisters, one Mary Trant Ottley who married in Sept 1785 to Captain Cornelius Smelt in Richmond Co: York. He was the Lieut. Governor of the Isle of Man; and the other sister was Mary Alice, who never married and probably traveled with her. cindy kilgore wrote: > A bit of a bagatelle for some of you interested in Hugues and the > rebellions occurring across the Caribbean in his wake. This is taken > from the pages of a book by Dr. John Hay of Grenada who was one of > Fedon’s 3 prisoners that were spared. The book only exists in a few > chosen libraries - one in Grenada (photocopy), British Library and > somewhere in the US (heaven knows I forgot as I’ve been trying to find > this book for about 7 years). Fascinating account by a man trusted by > the rebels and by his countrymen. He tells of the insurrection, his > prison life up on the mountain, the execution of the prisoners, and > his being sent to Guadeloupe on a prisoner exchange - which is where > this list comes from. He also speaks of his visits with Victor Hugues > and of the Warners. This particular Warner is Joseph Warner, second > son of Joseph Warner, owner of sugar plantations in St. Vincent, lived > on Gower Street, Bloomsbury. Shipley is more than likely, Sir Charles > Shipley, though I base this on his friendship with Warner than on any > document found giving a first name. > > I quote Hay as a prisoner in Guadeloupe - the prizes being captured > Brits (remember Scots are Brits - and the Scots were really, really > hated in Grenada at this time) ..... > > blah, blah, blah “...It was not many days before the unpleasant news > was confirmed; for, on the 28th of June (1795), the prizes were seen > off very early in the morning.” These prizes of Mr. Hugues were 11 > ships; listed are his English prisoners: > 1. Major Shipley, Mrs. Shipley and children - Jane and Augusta. > 2. Lt. Williams of the 61st Regt. > 3. Mr. Kittoe from London, last from Cork > 4. Mr. Hodge and son from St. Martin and William Plant of St. Lucia > 5. Dr. John Hay of Grenada (who had been one of Fedon’s prisoners up > at the “Camp”) > 6. Mr. Warner of London and his wife (sound familiar David?) and their > children, Jane, Louisa and Charlotte (Louisa would eventually be a > large landholder on Bequia) > 7. Miss Ottley (Nevilla, you reading) - Mrs. Warner’s sister > 8. Mrs. Honey and her daughter, Charlotte > 9. Mr. Rutley, a merchant with Mr. McDemott, a planter from Jamaica > 10. Mr. Mead of Montserrat and Mr. Cox of Jamaica > 11. Mr. Cox’s wife, mother and auntie > 12. Mrs. Greenland and Mrs. Richardson of Jamaica > 13. Miss Orgill > > Before you ask - I can’t give you any first names here - only copying > down as is presented in text. But in all, Hay says 500 prisoners > landed that day into Guadeloupe. > > So keeping in my promise of a short bagatelle - I bide you all a good > night and will find something in my notes tomorrow for Vincys. > > best wishes all, > Cindy > > ps - after reading this book, I climbed the mountain to Fedon’s > Camp.... (not recommended). > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > > ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# #################################################################

Hi Dorothy, Here's something from my post of 03/06/2003. Maybe you should take the opportunity to have your library purchase a copy. "Solving East Indian roots in Trinidad" by Shamshu Deen Freeport Junction, Bahamas: H.E.M. Enterprises. 1994 318p. This is a account of Deen's trying to find his own roots. It should be interesting to Trinidad researchers in the same quest, in terms of records and methodology. Regards, Richard

Hi Jim, Many thanks for your reply. I will get the film and see if there is any joy there. Regards, Roger. > -----Original Message----- > From: James W Cropper [mailto:jameswcropper@sympatico.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 9:27 PM > To: CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: NEILSON in St. Vincent > > > Hi Roger, > > Regarding NEILSON in the BMD records of St. George's Cathedral, Church of > England, Kingstown, St. Vincent. The Indexes of Family History > Library Film > # 1162485 show :- > Baptisms - no NEILSON but 5 NELSON. > Marriages - 2 NEILSON and 3 NELSON. > Burials - no NEILSON but 9 NELSON. > > To date there are no films of the smaller Anglican Churches or > all the other > denominations. > > Jim C. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger McCracken" <sarsol@gippsnet.com.au> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 11:30 PM > Subject: RE: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent > Presbyterian Church. > > > > Hi James, > > > > You write :- > > >I have gone through the Transcripts of St. George Cathedral, > > > Kingstown, St. Vincent from 1765-1870. > > > > I am seeking information on the birth of William NEILSON in St > Vincent in > > 1846. Do you perchance have any record of this, or can you point me in > the > > right direction for this information. I am, in particular, looking for > > mother's name and address and father's occupation. > > > > Many thanks for any help. > > > > Roger McCracken > > sarsol@gippsnet.com.au > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > The CARIBBEAN-L FAQ can be found at http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/mailinglistfaq.htm. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 18/06/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 18/06/2003

Hi Guy, Thanks for the info. My question was more for Vanda's benefit than mine. Rather than assuming that any of her Bebbington's were not lost at sea, I think that Vanda should check the "lost at sea records" first. It seems to me that one way of denying that one's relatives had died, is to create a myth that in fact they had not, but had taken to living in the West Indies. Richard

Richard Not anyone!! It depends when and on what ship - merchant or royal navy, and when. I assume that you are thinking about passengers or seamen on British merchant vessels - if so, the PRO has produced a leaflet on births, marriages and deaths at sea at http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ExternalRequest.asp?RequestReference=ri2168. I notice that it doesn't include Royal Navy deaths. If you are thinking about deaths of indentured labourers on route to the West Indies there are the occasional reports in the land and emigration department files (CO 384 and CO 386) especially in the surgeon's reports. It is possible that the British Library will have more. Guy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Allicock" <richwyn@idirect.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:39 PM Subject: Ships to the West Indies / Lost at sea > Hi Guy, > > On a related matter - would there be records for any-one lost at sea in the PRO? Thanks. > > Richard > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > Before posting a query, check to see if the question has already been asked on the List. All messages posted to CARIBBEAN-L are archived by date or thread at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CARIBBEAN. You can search the archives at http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CARIBBEAN. > >

Thank you to all of you who have been so helpful and kind to help me with finding our German ancestors who spent about 6 years in Jamaica. The information about the Clarke's is very interesting! I'd like to find out more about them and Woodfield. I have seen Mr. Bromfield's information about the ship Olbers and the residents of Seaford Towne. Our ancestors' names are not there - neither any spelling of the last name nor any combination of first names (Ferdinand + Agatha + son John + baby William). I am still curious to know when the first ship from Germany arrived in Jamaica in 1834. If baby William was born in Woodfield, Jamaica on October 30, 1834 and slavery was abolished August 1, 1834, does that mean the German ships started arriving sometime between those dates or did they start arriving before August 1? Thank you again for all your help - you have been most kind and informative! Barbara Vogele Obaker Allegheny County, PA Researching: PA: Vogele-Frye-Berkey-Seger-Claycomb-Buell-Penrod-Shaffer-Oats-Bittner-Bishop-D ibert-Berkebile-Zimmerman-Ripple-Clark-Obaker-Coughenour-Bennett-Lang-Beatty -Woodward-Klites-Bruck MD: Obaker-Goodwin-Knapp-Stegemuller VA: Hankins-Flippin-DeJarnette-Staples-Sudberry-Mumford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Kew" <dkew1@ca.inter.net> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:37 AM Subject: Re: Germans in Jamaica > Hi Barbara: > > I've just done a search on Patricia Jackson's web page, Jamaican Family > Search, and found several citations for Woodfield. There was a Woodfield in > St. Ann, apparently in the Dry Harbour / Ruanaway Bay district. Dry Harbour, > on the coast, originally known as Puerto Seco, is now known as Discovery > Bay. (There's also a Woodfield in St. Mary, but I would say that the St. > Ann one is yours.) > > I found the following citations from Lawrence Archer's Monumental > Inscriptions, in the Cathedral in Spanish Town: > > 254. Sacred to the memory of Mrs. HONORIA GARVEY CLARKE only daughter of > NICHOLAS GARVEY and consort of WILLIAM GARVEY CLARKE, Esqrs., who departed > this life at her residence, Woodfield, St. Anns, on the 25th of June Anno > Domini 1837 in the 33rd year of her age. (Eulogistic lines.) > > 255. Entombed within this monument lie the remains of NICHOLAS GARVEY, > Esqre., proprietor of Woodfield, St. Anns, son of CHRISTOPHER GARVEY, > Esqre., of Murrisk Abbey, Mayo, Ireland, who departed this life on the 4th > of March A.D. 1817 aged 65 years. As a mark of respect his son-in-law, > WILLIAM GARVEY CLARKE, Esq., erected this tablet to his memory. > > Your assumption regarding the baptism of William is probably correct, in > that the Clarkes were sponsors at the time, and that his parents probably > worked on the Clarke's esate. With regard to your third question, re German > immigration to Jamaica in 1834, I referred to Madeleine Mitchell's excellent > book on Jamaican research, "Jamaican Ancestry: how to find out more", p. 94, > and a citation she gives for the following: -- > "A thoroughly researched historical study is 'German Immigrants in Jamaica, > 1834-8", by Carl H. Senior (Journal of Caribbean History, vols. 10 & 11, > 1978, pp. 25-53)" > > Hope that helps! > > Dorothy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara Obaker" <bobaker@zoominternet.net> > To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: June 24, 2003 8:17 AM > Subject: Germans in Jamaica > > > > I have just received documentation that an ancestor of ours, William > > OEBBIKA, was baptized at Saint Patrick's Catholic Church in Kingston on > > November 23, 1834. He was born October 30, 1834 to Ferdinand and Agatha > > OEBBIKKA. The copy says that Ferdinand was a native of Germany and Agatha > > was formerly FAIRE (I'm assuming that's her maiden name). It also says > that > > William was born at Woodfield in the parish of St. Ann and the sponsors > were > > William CLARKE and Honoria CLARKE. > > > > This information raises a number of questions that I'm hoping some of you > > who know so much more about the history of Jamaica can answer: > > 1. Where is/was Woodfield in St. Ann's parish? Was that the name of a > > plantation? > > 2. Who were the CLARKE's - were they plantation owners? Clarke > certainly > > doesn't sound German, so I'm wondering if the sponsors were Jamaican > > citizen's for whom Ferdinand and Agatha worked. > > 3. When did ships with German workers arrive in Jamaica in 1834? Does > > anyone know where to find these ship records? > > > > Thank you all for your help! Ferdinand and Agatha left Jamaica in 1840 > and > > were living in Maryland by the end of 1840. > > Barbara Vogele Obaker > > Allegheny County, PA > > Researching: > > PA: > > > Vogele-Frye-Berkey-Seger-Claycomb-Buell-Penrod-Shaffer-Oats-Bittner-Bishop-D > > > ibert-Berkebile-Zimmerman-Ripple-Clark-Obaker-Coughenour-Bennett-Lang-Beatty > > -Woodward-Klites-Bruck-Whipkey > > MD: Obaker-Goodwin-Knapp-Stegemuller > > VA: Hankins-Flippin-DeJarnette-Staples-Sudberry-Mumford > > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin > boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > > > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > For information on individual islands, research aids, island bulletin boards or history please visit the CaribbeanGenWeb project at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~caribgw/ > >

A bit of a bagatelle for some of you interested in Hugues and the rebellions occurring across the Caribbean in his wake. This is taken from the pages of a book by Dr. John Hay of Grenada who was one of Fedon’s 3 prisoners that were spared. The book only exists in a few chosen libraries - one in Grenada (photocopy), British Library and somewhere in the US (heaven knows I forgot as I’ve been trying to find this book for about 7 years). Fascinating account by a man trusted by the rebels and by his countrymen. He tells of the insurrection, his prison life up on the mountain, the execution of the prisoners, and his being sent to Guadeloupe on a prisoner exchange - which is where this list comes from. He also speaks of his visits with Victor Hugues and of the Warners. This particular Warner is Joseph Warner, second son of Joseph Warner, owner of sugar plantations in St. Vincent, lived on Gower Street, Bloomsbury. Shipley is more than likely, Sir Charles Shipley, though I base this on his friendship with Warner than on any document found giving a first name. I quote Hay as a prisoner in Guadeloupe - the prizes being captured Brits (remember Scots are Brits - and the Scots were really, really hated in Grenada at this time) ..... blah, blah, blah “...It was not many days before the unpleasant news was confirmed; for, on the 28th of June (1795), the prizes were seen off very early in the morning.” These prizes of Mr. Hugues were 11 ships; listed are his English prisoners: 1. Major Shipley, Mrs. Shipley and children - Jane and Augusta. 2. Lt. Williams of the 61st Regt. 3. Mr. Kittoe from London, last from Cork 4. Mr. Hodge and son from St. Martin and William Plant of St. Lucia 5. Dr. John Hay of Grenada (who had been one of Fedon’s prisoners up at the “Camp”) 6. Mr. Warner of London and his wife (sound familiar David?) and their children, Jane, Louisa and Charlotte (Louisa would eventually be a large landholder on Bequia) 7. Miss Ottley (Nevilla, you reading) - Mrs. Warner’s sister 8. Mrs. Honey and her daughter, Charlotte 9. Mr. Rutley, a merchant with Mr. McDemott, a planter from Jamaica 10. Mr. Mead of Montserrat and Mr. Cox of Jamaica 11. Mr. Cox’s wife, mother and auntie 12. Mrs. Greenland and Mrs. Richardson of Jamaica 13. Miss Orgill Before you ask - I can’t give you any first names here - only copying down as is presented in text. But in all, Hay says 500 prisoners landed that day into Guadeloupe. So keeping in my promise of a short bagatelle - I bide you all a good night and will find something in my notes tomorrow for Vincys. best wishes all, Cindy ps - after reading this book, I climbed the mountain to Fedon’s Camp.... (not recommended).

Vanda Richard has answered your query about the geographical description of West Indies/Caribbean. I'll try and help you with your merchant ships - there are two answers depending on whether they were passengers or ships' crew. If they were passengers The National Archives (Public Record Office) has passenger lists of most ship's leaving British ports to places outside of Europe and Mediterranean, for the period 1890 to 1960 (series reference BT 27). I say most because although masters were supposed to lodge passenger lists with customs officials I feel that this did not always happen as I have not always been successful finding ships - even when I have the name of ship, date and port. The down side is that these are arranged by port of departure, month/year and then by ship - they are not indexed. Inwards passenger lists may survive in the country of arrival either in the archives or may be still with the immigration or customs departments. Many people who ended up in the West Indies did not go directly there - ships were not so frequent and were often expensive so a cheaper option was to go tourist class to Canada or USA and then to the West Indies. If Walter travelled between 1896 and 1924 you could try Ellis Island database in case he travelled via the port of New York/Ellis Island at www.ellisislandrecords.org. If either of them were merchant seamen working on ships trading between the UK and the West Indies, again, there could be information at The National Archives. They have produced several leaflets which describe sources in more depth than I could at http://www.pro.gov.uk/leaflets/Riindex.asp. There are records of service for merchant seamen between 1918 and 1972 (unfortunately, two series for the period 1918-1941 are arranged by discharge number). There are also agreements and crewlists to 1970 (but The National Archives only has a ten percent sample for years after 1861 except for 1939-1952 (or thereabouts) - most of the rest are in Newfoundland - these are arranged by ship's official number so you would need to know the name of at least one ship. Happy hunting Guy Grannum ----- Original Message ----- From: <WshireSD@aol.com> To: <CARIBBEAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:44 PM Subject: Ships to the West Indies > OK - I am going to ask a stupid question - but would like a sensible answer. > > Are there any records of people who were on merchant ships from England to > the West Indies. Does the West Indies mean the same as the Caribbean??? (Sorry - > that must sound incredibly stupid) > > I am looking for Walter BEBBINGTON born in England in 1882 > > and George BEBBINGTON born in Bristol, 1946. > > Thanks > VANDA > > > ==== CARIBBEAN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB MAILING LIST HELP PAGES > What is a Mailing List? > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/mail1.html > >