Hi all, Alastair has very kindly deciphered the copy of Right Hon George Rose's will that I ordered some time back. What is interesting is that the will states his property was in Dominica, not Antigua. The plantation was called Morne Denise and the will talks about cane offices, slaves and cattle stores. Just thought I would clear that up. Bye Anne > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Subject: RE: Hon George ROSE> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 01:25:44 -0500> > > > I can tell you where to look for the info on the Hon. George ROSE (1744 to> 13 Jan 1818). He was the son of David ROSE & Margaret (also nee ROSE), & the> the greatgrandson of David ROSE, of Earlsfield and Termet (See Burkes Landed> Gentry 1952, ROSE of Leweston & ROSE of Kilravock).> > His wife Theodora DUER (abt 1743/44 to 6 Nov 1834) was the dau of the Hon.> Maj. John DUER of Antigua and Frances his wife nee FFRYE, but I see nothing> to indicate that George & Theodora actually lived in the West Indies. It is> really the Duers who have the Antiguan connections.> Their eldest son Sir George Henry ROSE was born 1770 in Berlin, Germany; the> latter's daughter, Frances Theodora ROSE married 3 Jul 1817 George Sholto> DOUGLAS, Earl Morton, (you can easily find the Douglases in Burke's).> > I have seen nothing that would suggest a link to the Duke of Richmond.> > Ernest M. Wiltshire> >> > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288&_t=764581033&_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07&_m=EXT

Maria, SNIP: I have not been able to locate the Moores or Pollards - Agusta Moore and Samuel Herbert Pollard in the files... My research is in the 1860 and 1864 timeframe. I recently heard a story from a cuzin' I call aunt - because of her age,. She was on a cruise years ago and fell ill. While on deck all bundled up she befriended a woman and once the woman realized that she was the descendant of the Pollards she wanted to introduce her to a friend of hers who was a Pollard. The two met. My cuzin Olivia Pollard- Nevison- Jastram, from Panama& NY met the lady, Olive Pollard-Webb of St Vincent. Aunt Olive (Olivia) was informed by Olive Pollard- Webb that she (Olivia) was named after her. This Olive Pollard-Webb was visiting her son, Dr. Webb, LI NY (who I would really like to chat with) Olive Pollard -Webb has since past on. I think there may be a dot to connect here but I would need more information. The facts are: Samuel Herbert Pollard, 1860, Barbados (may be St Vincent -who knows)died 1914, St Lucia, Choc Cemetery. Poisoned. Agusta Ellen or Ellen Agusta Moore 1864, Barbados, died 1942 Panama Canal Zone. Her 5 children for Samuel who they raised together in St Lucia, carried the "Moore" name until they travelled off of the Island to go to Panama. His name (Samuel Pollard)is on the birth certificates for all of the children. My mother's Panamanian BC lists her Parents and gps- Augusta Moore and Samuel Pollard. Question: 1.What type of document would I be looking for that would hacve been filed in St Lucia- I guess- for him to have given the children his name to travel with? 2.Where would it have been filed? 3. Are there any documents where he would have to list his parents names? I imagine that I would have to make these same inquiries for the concept of his birth being in St Vincent. The son of Samuel Pollard, William Theolipos? Pollard, b.1894, St Lucia, went to the US after his father died and joined the war- WW1. I saw his draft card 1917. I does say William Pollard. I attended his wake 1966 when I was a child in brroklyn, NY. Aunt Olivia told me that he was buried in Farmingdale Natl Cemetery , LI so I did a 3-way, chatted with the gentleman there and got his grave # and general information. The rumor is that he had twins (in NY)??. I filled out the form to obtain information on his military records as 'not next of kin'. I want to see if there was an alottment for a wife or children and possibly a name. Then I can search Ny records for these people. Whew... Open to suggestions from the group. Thanks Cuzin'Choli -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marie Cameron Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Moores and Heyligers Hi, cuz Yvonne! (well maybe - don't think any of my Moores were where yours were!) When you look for Moores in the Caribbean on the IGI, the category is "Caribbean Islands". And there were a whole heap listed for Barbados - none for St Eustatius, regrettably! That's all I know, I'm afraid. Nothing profound to offer! Marie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

No, I haven't been able to get any more information on the OSBORN(E)s than what I mentioned. If I do get any more, I'll let you know. Hester +++ <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Hester: Thank you. Do you know any more about John Osborne or his wife or the other children? We know very little about the St. Eustatius roots. I will keep looking and let you know if I find a link. By the way, St. Christopher is present day St. Kitts, West Indies. Sonia > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Hi, I followed up a post of some years ago about a map of Jamaica of 1671. It turns out to have been by Ogilby, and is available from the Scottish National Library. But in the meanwhile if anybody is interested, I've put a smaller version at http://lackfamily.net/genealogy/nedham/residences/Jamaica%20Map.html There is a wonderful set of maps of Jamaica on http://prestwidge.com/river/jamaicanparishes.html put up by Bill Prestwidge. Alastair

Perhaps becuase by Jamaica standards Weatherman/Wedderman is a bit uncommon, now i knew a Joe weatherman not sure of the spelling, In Canada from Jamaica not the Joe you mentioned as he was certainly a bit younger than that, I know he was a workingman at the time of the "Kendal Crash" 1950's, now that put him in the parish, he related that he either went to the crash or was not seriously hurt, but wiorked on the railway. I will try and get his offsprings by this weekend but just a try ok. Winston > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Subject: Weatherman/Wedderman & Thompson - Jamaica> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:10:31 -0400> > > > Hello, everyone. I've posted this info before, but it was a couple of years ago. Perhaps new eyes will shed new light on my search for information. I am most interested in Weatherman and Thompson from Manchester, Jamaica. I've heard mention of a place called Plowden...if anyone has any info or shares some branches of my tree, please email me. The majority of this information is from family resources and is incomplete and may not be 100% correct. Thanks for any help.> > SURNAMES: Weatherman (Wedderman), Thompson (also Newland, Rerrie, Spence)> > Generation 1 (my ggg grandparents)> > JOSEPH WEATHERMAN b. ? location of birth ? married UNKNOWN BROWN > Children of Joseph Weatherman and Unknown Brown:> ETHLIND WEATHERMAN b circa 1893 (Manchester?) > ISMA WEATHERMAN> RALPH WEATHERMAN> > PHILLIP THOMPSON was born in Scotland, EU (questionable), and died in Jamaica, WI. He married UNKNOWN.> Children of PHILLIP THOMPSON and UNKNOWN are:> GEORGE DEMPSTER THOMPSON, d. Jamaica, WI.> CHARLIE THOMPSON, d. Jamaica, WI.> PHILLIP THOMPSON, JR., d. Jamaica, WI.> JAMES THOMPSON, d. Jamaica, WI.> MAY THOMPSON, d. Jamaica, WI.> > Generation 2 (my gg grandparents)> > ETHLIND WEATHERMAN married GEORGE DEMPSTER THOMPSON 26 March 1911 at All Saint’s Church in Kingston> Children of ETHLIND WEATHERMAN and GEORGE THOMPSON are:> MYRTLE THOMPSON, b. 11 Nov 1918, Manchester, Jamaica > MARIE AUSTIN THOMPSON> AMY THOMPSON> > JOSEPH ADOLPHUS NEWLAND was born 1876 in Port Maria, St. Mary, Jamaica, WI, and died 03 Oct 1942 in St. Andrew, Jamaica, WI. He married ESTHER LENA MCINTOSH.> Children of JOSEPH NEWLAND and ESTHER MCINTOSH are:> LYNDEN GLADSTONE NEWLAND, b. 1914, Port Maria, St. Mary, Jamaica, WI; d. 26 Dec 1995, Kingston, Jamaica, WI. (House of Representatives 1944-1949; Mayor of Kingston 1948-1949; As Minister of Labor and Social Security in 1964 created the national insurance plan)> VERNON NEWLAND.> LYTTEL NEWLAND.> EDNA NEWLAND, m. UNKNOWN LINDO.> > Generation No. 3 (my g grandparents)> > MYRTLE THOMPSON married LYNDEN GLADSTON NEWLAND 29 June 1938> Child of MYRTLE THOMPSON and LYNDEN NEWLAND: > SYLVAN GLADSTON NEWLAND> > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Create a handy button so your friends can add U to their buddy list. Try it now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/211

Hi Hester: Thank you. Do you know any more about John Osborne or his wife or the other children? We know very little about the St. Eustatius roots. I will keep looking and let you know if I find a link. By the way, St. Christopher is present day St. Kitts, West Indies. Sonia > From: Hester Wilson <[email protected]> > Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:37:15 -0700 (PDT) > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Dow-Osborne-Farnum - St. Eustatius and Guyana > > I have a John OSBORN(E) who married Mary Beaks LEVEROCK of St. Bartholomew, > West Indies. Their daughter, Ann, was born 01 July 1804, St Barts. She died 18 > Jan 1881 in Ohio, USA. Ann married Rev. John SEYS off "Old Roads", St. > Christopher, V.I., then again on St. Eust. on 12 Oct. 1821. I don't know why > there were two ceremonies, unless they were of different religions. > John and Ann had 12 children, born on different islands, and Africa (where > John and Ann were missionaries). The family ended up in NY, and OH, USA. I > don't know where the OSBORN(E)s were originally from. If you find that this is > part of your line, please let me know. > 1. Jacobus > 2.Mary Catherine > 3.George Dewint > 4. John Charles > 5. Henry Hill > 6.Cornelius > 7.Ann Osborn > 8. Maria Tellar > 9. John > 10. Wilmot Osborn > 11.Ann Goheen > 12. Clement Tracy (my line) > > Hester > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, my name is Oscar E. Percival, from Dominican Republic. I have interest to collect data of my grandfather Charles Anatole Marcellin Flanders, French citizen that emigrated to Dominican Republica from Guadealoupe or Martinique by years 1930. What proceedings I must open in Guadealoupe and whereupon to institution I have to contact there. Get any document. Thanks.

I have a John OSBORN(E) who married Mary Beaks LEVEROCK of St. Bartholomew, West Indies. Their daughter, Ann, was born 01 July 1804, St Barts. She died 18 Jan 1881 in Ohio, USA. Ann married Rev. John SEYS off "Old Roads", St. Christopher, V.I., then again on St. Eust. on 12 Oct. 1821. I don't know why there were two ceremonies, unless they were of different religions. John and Ann had 12 children, born on different islands, and Africa (where John and Ann were missionaries). The family ended up in NY, and OH, USA. I don't know where the OSBORN(E)s were originally from. If you find that this is part of your line, please let me know. 1. Jacobus 2.Mary Catherine 3.George Dewint 4. John Charles 5. Henry Hill 6.Cornelius 7.Ann Osborn 8. Maria Tellar 9. John 10. Wilmot Osborn 11.Ann Goheen 12. Clement Tracy (my line) Hester --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Hi List: Thanks for the renewed activity on the list over the past 3 months. I was beginning to wonder. I am researching my husband's family in Guyana. I hope that someone can point me to additional sources. I have posted on the Guyana Genealogical Society site as well as others. Here is what I have: Dow-Osborne ____ Dow migrated from St. Eustatius to British Guiana in 1812, with his 2-year old son John. That son may have married an Osborne. Their child was named John Osborne Dow (1870-1951). Dow-Farnum John Osborne Dow (1870-1951) had at least one child, Florence Dow Matamootoo, before he married Ada Farnum. They lived in New Amsterdam and raised the following children: Beryl m. Ludvig Alexander Robinson Duncan m. Helen Douglas William Osborne m. Agnes M. Clement Lionel Ernest m. Yvonne Mossop Leila - never married Ada Farnum had the following siblings: Cyril 'Bertie' Several other brothers, including one who migrated to Canada or U.S. Ella m. Jack Worme of Barbados; she had been adopted by a Mrs. Hudson ("Auntie Hudson" possibly nee Farnum) after her parents' death. Mrs. Hudson also adopted a cousin of the above, Gilbert Farnum, who served as Solicitor General in Guyana. He had a brother, Duncan Farnum. I am particularly interested in passenger lists that might give me more info on the Dow migration from St. Eustatius to then British Guiana and the Farnum migration to North America. The family was Anglican, so leads on how to access those records in Guyana or St. Eustatius would also be helpful. I have found a John Dow along with several other Dows in early Guyana Directories but cannot ascertain their relationship. Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give. Sonia

Hello, everyone. I've posted this info before, but it was a couple of years ago. Perhaps new eyes will shed new light on my search for information. I am most interested in Weatherman and Thompson from Manchester, Jamaica. I've heard mention of a place called Plowden...if anyone has any info or shares some branches of my tree, please email me. The majority of this information is from family resources and is incomplete and may not be 100% correct. Thanks for any help. SURNAMES: Weatherman (Wedderman), Thompson (also Newland, Rerrie, Spence) Generation 1 (my ggg grandparents) JOSEPH WEATHERMAN b. ? location of birth ? married UNKNOWN BROWN Children of Joseph Weatherman and Unknown Brown: ETHLIND WEATHERMAN b circa 1893 (Manchester?) ISMA WEATHERMAN RALPH WEATHERMAN PHILLIP THOMPSON was born in Scotland, EU (questionable), and died in Jamaica, WI. He married UNKNOWN. Children of PHILLIP THOMPSON and UNKNOWN are: GEORGE DEMPSTER THOMPSON, d. Jamaica, WI. CHARLIE THOMPSON, d. Jamaica, WI. PHILLIP THOMPSON, JR., d. Jamaica, WI. JAMES THOMPSON, d. Jamaica, WI. MAY THOMPSON, d. Jamaica, WI. Generation 2 (my gg grandparents) ETHLIND WEATHERMAN married GEORGE DEMPSTER THOMPSON 26 March 1911 at All Saint’s Church in Kingston Children of ETHLIND WEATHERMAN and GEORGE THOMPSON are: MYRTLE THOMPSON, b. 11 Nov 1918, Manchester, Jamaica MARIE AUSTIN THOMPSON AMY THOMPSON JOSEPH ADOLPHUS NEWLAND was born 1876 in Port Maria, St. Mary, Jamaica, WI, and died 03 Oct 1942 in St. Andrew, Jamaica, WI. He married ESTHER LENA MCINTOSH. Children of JOSEPH NEWLAND and ESTHER MCINTOSH are: LYNDEN GLADSTONE NEWLAND, b. 1914, Port Maria, St. Mary, Jamaica, WI; d. 26 Dec 1995, Kingston, Jamaica, WI. (House of Representatives 1944-1949; Mayor of Kingston 1948-1949; As Minister of Labor and Social Security in 1964 created the national insurance plan) VERNON NEWLAND. LYTTEL NEWLAND. EDNA NEWLAND, m. UNKNOWN LINDO. Generation No. 3 (my g grandparents) MYRTLE THOMPSON married LYNDEN GLADSTON NEWLAND 29 June 1938 Child of MYRTLE THOMPSON and LYNDEN NEWLAND: SYLVAN GLADSTON NEWLAND

Just so I can poke if I have time this week....could you lay out your "Knowns" abit and bracket it so there will be a bit more to play with? Cod -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kristy Willoughby Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Roses in Barbados Hi, The only indication I have of when my Robert RR Rose was born is from "General Don's Muster" which was taken in 1815 of all the military aged males on Jersey. There is a Richmond Rose in St Helier aged 51. If this is my man (and I think it is) that makes his DOB c1764. That makes the marriage of Robert Rose and Elizabeth Brereton interesting. My Robert called his eldest daughter Elizabeth. All the advise I've been given says that Pursers in the RN came almost exclusively from the Merchant class. Businessmen in other words. Thank you all so much for your help. Anne, from hot and humid Sydney > _________________________________________________________________ Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at www.seek.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F %3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_en dtext_Future&_m=EXT ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> for free now!

Hi Anne In addition there are a veritable tonne of Roses in Jamaica...... The Rose family "Antigua" is well established, with mercantile involvements throughout. Also some Royal Navy and political appointments..... The Group in Jamaica are extremely varied and there are so many hits I cannot be more helpful....but there is a lot there to examine. Cod -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kristy Willoughby Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Royal Navy in the Caribbean 1799-1800 Hi, I'm new to the list and I'm researching Robert Reginald Richmond Rose, who was in the Royal Navy from 1799-1806 serving as a Purser. In December 1800 Robert RR was on HMS Pelican and in Jersey ,the Channel Islands as evidenced by his marriage certificate to Ann Waters. I've traced the Pelican via the London Gazette and found that she spent all of 1799 to April 1800 in the Caribbean on active service and taking many prizes. My question is this. Would anyone know if Robert RR could have been recruited as Purser from the Caribbean, a local man in other words? I've so far been unable to find out for sure exactly what the RNs policy was re replacement officers in that time period. Would they would have sent a replacement officer out from England ? _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> for free now!

Hello Anne Well its great to see everyone coming out of the woodword for your Reg Rose! I did a quick check on Barbados Records (Sanders) and found a whole bunch of Roses. No Reginald noted in the index but given the peculiarities of this CD it means little. This evening will browse the wills re Elizabeth and see if anything draws attention. But your larger question an interesting one re Naval officers posted from ???? There was a high mortality rate on HM ships in the Carib. I believe posts were filled out of need from whatever source available and later either confirmed or replaced via appointment from the Admiralty. However if the ship was on "station" which it sounds like it was Station commander(Admiral) would have power to verify such substitutions and it would have been pro forma for confirmation in Britain. The commander of a vessel has substantial discretion to fill posts from those unattached in port. Do you know if the ship was on Station in jamaica or the Leewards/Barbados? Ships on station in Jamaica did not cruise much upwind to Antigua etc this required them to beat upwind through the Mona Passage between Jamaica and Hispaniola and them come all the way around to the Leewards it could take well over a month! Consequently English Harbor served as the home port for the British ships stationed in the Leewards. Akk these little details may help you track him down abit. I will check a few things here to see if he is noted in History of Antigua (VL Oliver) Cod -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kristy Willoughby Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Royal Navy in the Caribbean 1799-1800 I'm researching Robert Reginald Richmond Rose, who was in the Royal Navy from 1799-1806 serving as a Purser. In December 1800 Robert RR was on HMS Pelican and in Jersey ,the Channel Islands as evidenced by his marriage certificate to Ann Waters. I've traced the Pelican via the London Gazette and found that she spent all of 1799 to April 1800 in the Caribbean on active service and taking many prizes. My question is this. Would anyone know if Robert RR could have been recruited as Purser from the Caribbean, a local man in other words? _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> for free now!

Thanks again everyone for your help. The Right Honorable George Rose is an interesting character isn't he? George was known to sponsor promising naval officers, Horatio Nelson and Arthur Phillip are two of the famous ones. Nelson dined with Rose at Cuffnells before Trafalgar and Phillip named the Sydney Suburbs of Rosehill and Rose Bay after his supporter. I have a genealogy of the Rose Clan of Kilravock, but unfortunately it is far from complete. A lot of the younger sons are listed as merely "having issue". I have wondered if my Robert Reginald Richmond Rose could be slotted in there somewhere. As for George Roses property in Antigua, as he lived in England , wouldn't someone have to manage it? Given the clannish nature of the Roses, could it have been one of his relatives? Please tell me if this theory is rubbish. I feel that I am tilting at windmills with the whole Robert RR mystery, and another pair of eyes would be a great help! I went so far as to get a copy of George Rose's will ( its only money after all) but it didn't do me any good as I find it impossible to read! I would love to sit down with William C Griffith and ask him WHY he thought his grandfather was the son of the Duke of Richmond. I have found nothing at all to support this theory so far. BUT I have to remember that William C was his grandson and would have heard the family story from his mother Ann Rose, Roberts daughter. What always strikes me as odd is that NONE of Roberts grandchildren seem to know where he was born or where he died. I would have thought that Ann, in between telling her children stories of noble descent etc, would have said something like "Dad dropped dead in the front garden" or "Dad fell overboard in the West Indies". The fact that she apparently didn't strikes me as odd. Thanks again for your help Anne > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Subject: RE: ROSE & FFRYE> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:15:41 -0500> > > Hello David: You asked:> "Is there any chance you can state with confidence the names of the parents> of Frances ffrye who married the John Duer mentioned in your letter below". > I suppose I can: that info comes from her father's will (extracts) . [See> Oliver's History of Antigua: I can hunt up the exact reference for you if> you want, but Idont have it to hand this minute]. His wife Mary mentioned in> the will is not Frances's mother: her mother appears to have been also named> Frances (surname unknown).> > Will of John Ffrye the Elder Esq. of Antigua. 14 Aug 1747: Wife Mary. Dau> Frances wife of John Duer. Sons Roland, Samuel & William Frye. Dau Henrieta> Maria Byam, grandchildren Lydia, Mary Eliza. George & John Byam. ...> Wits: B. Anderson, John Pearcy, Kean Osborne. > On 6 April 1748 J. Pearcy and K Osborne appear to attest will.> > With regard to the children of George Rose & Theodora Duer, according to my> info they had a third son, Charles Philip ROSE who died in Bordeaux in 1835,> but the official sources do not seem to mention him. William Stewart (who> was apparently a poet and a translator - my own profession. See Wikipedia)> died in 1843.> > Ernest > > -----Original Message-----> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]> On Behalf Of David Daniell> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:17 AM> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: Hon George ROSE> > the mystery thickens> (from the Oxford Dictionary of Biography)> ... On 7 July 1769 Rose married Theodora (1744–1834), the daughter of Major> John Duer of Fulham, Middlesex, and Antigua; they had two sons, George Henry> Rose and William Stewart Rose, and a daughter. "> > On 7 Mar 2008, at 19:25, Ernest M. Wiltshire wrote:> I can tell you where to look for the info on the Hon. George ROSE...> His wife Theodora DUER (abt 1743/44 to 6 Nov 1834) was the dau of the Hon.> Maj. John DUER of Antigua and Frances his wife nee FFRYE, > > No virus found in this outgoing message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008> 6:58 PM> > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT

On Mar 7, 9:49 pm, Kristy Willoughby <[email protected]> wrote: >   Thanks again everyone for your help. The Right Honorable George Rose is an interesting character isn't he? George was known to sponsor promising naval officers, Horatio Nelson and Arthur Phillip are two of the famous ones. Nelson dined with Rose at Cuffnells before Trafalgar and Phillip named the Sydney Suburbs of Rosehill and Rose Bay after his supporter. I have a genealogy of the Rose Clan of Kilravock, but unfortunately it is far from complete. A lot of the younger sons are listed as merely "having issue". I have wondered if my Robert Reginald Richmond Rose could be slotted in there somewhere. >    As for George Roses property in Antigua, as he lived in England , wouldn't someone have to manage it? Given the clannish nature of the Roses, could it have been one of his relatives? Please tell me if this theory is rubbish. I feel that I am tilting at windmills with the whole Robert RR mystery, and another pair of eyes would be a great help! I went so far as to get a copy of George Rose's will ( its only money after all) but it didn't do me any good as I find it impossible to read! >    I would love to sit down with William C Griffith and ask him WHY he thought his grandfather was the son of the Duke of Richmond. I have found nothing at all to support this theory so far. BUT I have to remember that William C was his grandson and would have heard the family story from his mother Ann Rose, Roberts daughter. What always strikes me as odd is that NONE of Roberts grandchildren seem to know where he was born or where he died. I would have thought that Ann, in between telling her children stories of noble descent etc, would have said something like "Dad dropped dead in the front garden" or "Dad fell overboard in the West Indies". The fact that she apparently didn't strikes me as odd. >     Thanks again for your help > Anne Anne, I've done a bit of transcribing of old documents. If you send me a scan of the will, I'll see if I can help Alastair [email protected]

the mystery thickens (from the Oxford Dictionary of Biography) "Rose served as a midshipman in the navy from 1758 to 1762, first sailing to the West Indies as servant to Captain James Mackenzie in the Infernal, a ‘bomb-ketch’, and participating in the St Malo expedition of June 1758. He was twice wounded in action when the Infernal joined the Leeward Islands fleet. In peacetime he found himself without an income, as his uncle, from whom he expected a legacy, had died intestate. Through his uncle's friend Alexander Strahan in 1763 he found an opening as deputy chamberlain of the tally court and clerk of the exchequer records at Westminster. From April 1767 he was employed in publishing 31 folio volumes of theJournals of the House of Lords. Lord Sandwich had recommended him to Hugh Hume, third earl of Marchmont, who was later rumoured to have been Rose's natural father; Rose certainly became close to Marchmont, for he was one of his executors in 1794 and was bequeathed his library and a legacy. On 7 July 1769 Rose married Theodora (1744–1834), the daughter of Major John Duer of Fulham, Middlesex, and Antigua; they had two sons, George Henry Rose and William Stewart Rose, and a daughter. " Note the ref to the Earl of Marchmont cheers David On 7 Mar 2008, at 19:25, Ernest M. Wiltshire wrote: > > I can tell you where to look for the info on the Hon. George ROSE > (1744 to > 13 Jan 1818). He was the son of David ROSE & Margaret (also nee > ROSE), & the > the greatgrandson of David ROSE, of Earlsfield and Termet (See > Burkes Landed > Gentry 1952, ROSE of Leweston & ROSE of Kilravock). > > His wife Theodora DUER (abt 1743/44 to 6 Nov 1834) was the dau of > the Hon. > Maj. John DUER of Antigua and Frances his wife nee FFRYE, but I see > nothing > to indicate that George & Theodora actually lived in the West > Indies. It is > really the Duers who have the Antiguan connections. > Their eldest son Sir George Henry ROSE was born 1770 in Berlin, > Germany; the > latter's daughter, Frances Theodora ROSE married 3 Jul 1817 George > Sholto > DOUGLAS, Earl Morton, (you can easily find the Douglases in Burke's). > > I have seen nothing that would suggest a link to the Duke of Richmond. > > Ernest M. Wiltshire > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] > ] > On Behalf Of Kristy Willoughby > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:17 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Roses in Barbados > ... I'd be interested in the Roses of Antigua, mainly because of The > Right > Honorable George Rose who married a Theodora Druer or Duer who is > described > as a West Indian heiress. George ended up owning a lot of property on > Antigua. George Rose was Treasurer of the Navy at the time Robert > served and > his name keeps popping up everywhere I look in this saga. I wouldn't > be > surprised if our Robert turned out to be some sort of kinsman to > George > Rose. If Robert joined the Pelican from the Caribbean I'd be even > more sure! > Thanks again to everybody for your interest. > Bye Anne

I have always assumed that is English affectation, but then I am a cynic. Doubtless there is a reason though. Edward Crawford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Augusta Elmwood" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: Re: ROSE & FFRYE > Greetings to all from a lurker! Can anyone explain why the double Fs at > the > beginning of Ffrye? Another example I've seen -- the family name Ffrench. > > Bon weekend, > > Augusta Elmwood > New Orleans > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernest M. Wiltshire" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, 07 March, 2008 10:15 > Subject: RE: ROSE & FFRYE > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: > 06/03/2008 18:58 > >

Hi Augusta >From another lurker.... "Old English Writing" used "ff" for "F" - it's really no more than an affectation to retain names starting "ff..." - but at least it can be considered far more accurate usage than "Ff..." Gus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Augusta Elmwood" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: Re: ROSE & FFRYE Greetings to all from a lurker! Can anyone explain why the double Fs at the beginning of Ffrye? Another example I've seen -- the family name Ffrench. Bon weekend, Augusta Elmwood New Orleans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest M. Wiltshire" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 07 March, 2008 10:15 Subject: RE: ROSE & FFRYE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello All, Thank you everyone for your help. I can tell you that the Pelican was under the command of Admiral Sir Hyde Parker out of Jamaica. What we know of Robert RR's naval career comes from a number of letters that have survived from the Admiralty to Robert RR's youngest grandson William C Griffith, written between 1918 to mid 1920's, at a time when William C was trying to find the identity of his grandfather. They confirm that Robert RR was in the RN from 1799-1806 and that he served on the Pelican , the Sardine and the Resource. The Sardine and the Resource were captured ships that spent most of that time in "ordinary " or in reserve. The Sardine in Portsmouth and the Resource on the Thames were it was used as a floating gun battery. According to his marriage certificate Robert was Purser on the Pelican in Dec 1800. William C had also contacted Somerset House to try to find his grandfathers birth and death. They could find nothing on him. William C became convinced that Robert RR was the son of the Duke of Richmond, but unfortunately nothing has survived to explain how he came to that conclusion! There definately was an attempt by Robert RR's Aussie descendants to claim some money that was held in Chancery in the 1920's. They all got together to hire a London lawyer to represent them, but nothing came of it. I'd be interested in the Roses of Antigua, mainly because of The Right Honorable George Rose who married a Theodora Druer or Duer who is described as a West Indian heiress. George ended up owning a lot of property on Antigua. George Rose was Treasurer of the Navy at the time Robert served and his name keeps popping up everywhere I look in this saga. I wouldn't be surprised if our Robert turned out to be some sort of kinsman to George Rose. I f Robert joined the Pelican from the Caribbean I'd be even more sure! Thanks again to everybody for your interest. Bye Anne > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Subject: RE: Roses in Barbados> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 09:20:33 -0500> > Just so I can poke if I have time this week....could you lay out your> "Knowns" abit and bracket it so there will be a bit more to play with? > > Cod > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]> On Behalf Of Kristy Willoughby > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:01 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Roses in Barbados > > Hi, > > The only indication I have of when my Robert RR Rose was born is from> "General Don's Muster" which was taken in 1815 of all the military aged> males on Jersey. There is a Richmond Rose in St Helier aged 51. If this is> my man (and I think it is) that makes his DOB c1764. That makes the marriage> of Robert Rose and Elizabeth Brereton interesting. My Robert called his> eldest daughter Elizabeth. > > All the advise I've been given says that Pursers in the RN came almost> exclusively from the Merchant class. Businessmen in other words. > > Thank you all so much for your help. > > Anne, from hot and humid Sydney > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at www.seek.com.au > > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F> %3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_en> dtext_Future&_m=EXT > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > _____ > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.> It has removed 1 spam emails to date.> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.> Try SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> for free now!> > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT

Hello David: You asked: "Is there any chance you can state with confidence the names of the parents of Frances ffrye who married the John Duer mentioned in your letter below". I suppose I can: that info comes from her father's will (extracts) . [See Oliver's History of Antigua: I can hunt up the exact reference for you if you want, but Idont have it to hand this minute]. His wife Mary mentioned in the will is not Frances's mother: her mother appears to have been also named Frances (surname unknown). Will of John Ffrye the Elder Esq. of Antigua. 14 Aug 1747: Wife Mary. Dau Frances wife of John Duer. Sons Roland, Samuel & William Frye. Dau Henrieta Maria Byam, grandchildren Lydia, Mary Eliza. George & John Byam. ... Wits: B. Anderson, John Pearcy, Kean Osborne. On 6 April 1748 J. Pearcy and K Osborne appear to attest will. With regard to the children of George Rose & Theodora Duer, according to my info they had a third son, Charles Philip ROSE who died in Bordeaux in 1835, but the official sources do not seem to mention him. William Stewart (who was apparently a poet and a translator - my own profession. See Wikipedia) died in 1843. Ernest -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Daniell Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:17 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Hon George ROSE the mystery thickens (from the Oxford Dictionary of Biography) ... On 7 July 1769 Rose married Theodora (1744–1834), the daughter of Major John Duer of Fulham, Middlesex, and Antigua; they had two sons, George Henry Rose and William Stewart Rose, and a daughter. " On 7 Mar 2008, at 19:25, Ernest M. Wiltshire wrote: I can tell you where to look for the info on the Hon. George ROSE... His wife Theodora DUER (abt 1743/44 to 6 Nov 1834) was the dau of the Hon. Maj. John DUER of Antigua and Frances his wife nee FFRYE, No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1316 - Release Date: 3/6/2008 6:58 PM