Hi Sarah thanks for the test, I was about to do it myself! Cod -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Carib] O.T.>>>TESTING Hello All Just testig the "waters" so to speak as it has been quiet of late. Hope everyone is having a great week thus far. Sara Baker _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 102 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> for free now!

Hello All Just testig the "waters" so to speak as it has been quiet of late. Hope everyone is having a great week thus far. Sara Baker

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You'll find a couple of Pollards and a couple of hundreds of Moores in the online census for the former Danish Westindies, St. Croix, St. Thomas and St. John (now U.S.Virgin Islands). See www.ddd.dda.dk, choose Andre kilder (Other sources) and then St. Croix. Vibeke Maduro Tuxen ________________________________ From: [email protected] on behalf of Emanuel, Yvonne E CIV USA AMC Sent: Tue 4/15/2008 7:59 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Carib] Moores in St. Croix Laura, thank you so much. I will archive this to the Pollard/Moore file that I created. It was so well stated last week by Dorothy Kew that because of the inter-island movement (voluntary or forced) we should not rule out the fact that our surname on an island we are not familiar with may be a link on our tree.(I'm paraphrasing here folks) basically Cast your research net far and wide. St Croix, huh? Cuzin' Choli *************************** The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Another work on the subject worth a look at: White Servitude and Black Slavery in Barbados, 1627-1715 by Hilary M. Beckles Cod ___________________________________________________________________________a a digression for those interested: There are many angles of view but one thing is for sure, a more than casual study of the various forms of bondage which prevailed in the 17th Century On the islands is essential to understand a lot of what happened then and later. Tough stuff! On several occasions Gen Chris Codrington(1698) applies the term "slave" to indentured caucasians... I believe by 1700 that would have been anachronistic or even disapproved of but certainly not in 1670. The penalties to a woman in bond for being pregnant were severe and the child's labor became the masters' till whatever terms there were had been satisfied. In the early islands, the rules guiding these things were flaunted if they existed at all. In addition, white indentureds often came at little cash outlay. Observers consistently note white indentureds being worked into the ground... To see this "in time" is to understand that "Human Rights" as we know them simply did not exist. They were developing along class lines in European society and as the history of the Carib progresses the notion of rights trickles down in conjunction with the growing influence of economics on social status. In the 17th, the men who got to Barbados, either struggled to both serve the crown (or parliament) and to acquire wealth/land. The hope being that with these achievements and good notice they might acquire title and further opportunity to break out of whatever limits they were "born to" Wealth increasingly developed influence over the relative security of an individual in his society. But for most of the 17 and part of the 18th Wealth was not enough to achieve "social security" or some form of protected status. And though it was far better to be a wealthy white planter than an indentured Irishman, there are plenty of examples where those planters came down as hard and fast as they had risen simply by diplomatic or social gaffe. Or Hubris or for no justification but envy. In the time of James I virtually anyone could rise and then be taken down. A persons' security likely relied on birth, "sponsorship" and wealth in that order. The limits to how far one could rise were quite diverse, and arbitrary. Race and nationality were not seen much differently at times Racist notions though long a part of human thinking developed to the degree known to us in direct conjunction with the need for "order" in slave based society and the justification for sustaining one. But it seems starkly evident that what we think of as "freedom" today was absolutely not conceived as a "right" in 1628.... Thus the prevalence of the expression "rights and priveleges" in so many contracts and bills as if by linking those two repetitively over time a marriage might be achived between the two. Certainly for nearly anyone not of Noble blood, any "rights" they might believe they had were in fact "priveleges" granted them and subject to a nearly arbitrary removal... In fact much of the English Civil War revolves around such notions though not as applies to regular folk. Anyway this is really a rich line of study. To me, in it lies the real history of The Americas Cod _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 73 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> for free now!

Laura, thank you so much. I will archive this to the Pollard/Moore file that I created. It was so well stated last week by Dorothy Kew that because of the inter-island movement (voluntary or forced) we should not rule out the fact that our surname on an island we are not familiar with may be a link on our tree.(I'm paraphrasing here folks) basically Cast your research net far and wide. St Croix, huh? Cuzin' Choli

This may not be yours, Yvonne, but here it is just in case there are others who'd like more on the Moores. Cheers, Laura in NC Vol. 42, 1820B, FHL Microfilm 0394911 (I think this chancery) 255 Elliott Moore, [Plantation Grange] St. Croix 15 Dec 1819 On Apr 15, 2008, at 1:02 PM, Emanuel, Yvonne E CIV USA AMC wrote: > > This is most interesting. Thanks for this insight. > > I am venturing into the (maternal gm) Pollard and Moore family > research. > I > Yvonne aka cuzin' Choli >

This is most interesting. Thanks for this insight. I am venturing into the (maternal gm) Pollard and Moore family research. I have really been doing it for about 100 years but on my gf's line LaMotte, Belfon. Hearing stories and understanding the culture of the time is eye-opening. Barbados is a new adventure for me. I ordered a film last week (an Index) and can't wait to peel back this very complicated lineage. Yes, the white slavery aspect is something to keep in mind. My aunt Olive (really an older cousin) in NY was explaining to me that many times after the "bonded slave " time frame was completed then the slave/bound person(white) was conveniently disposed of to not have to pay them for services. Unlike the black slave who was in servitude until death. I am looking forward to shining light on these ancestors who I elevate in prayer but had not examined as closely as I am now. Yvonne aka cuzin' Choli

Peter, I am afraid that Barbados (and many Caribbean islands) have ever been a paradise for the very wealthy, and often more of a prison for those less fortunate. One old expression about being sent there was to be "Barbadoesed", which for many signified a sure sentence of death by mistreatment or disease. The enslaved were not only Africans; tens of thousands of enslaved Europeans were shipped to the colonies. The late Sean O'Callaghan's "To Hell or Barbados" is a poignant examination of the fate & plight of the Irish. Everyone interested in West Indian social history should read it, as they should the late Jill Sheppard's brilliant "The Red Legs of Barbados". The glossy tourist brochures tend not to mention the dark and troubled history of the "tristes tropiques" and contemporary historians seem to try to minimise if not ignore the fact that all slaves were not black; I think that a more balanced perspective is much needed. Ernest M. Wiltshire -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Spring Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:32 PM To: Rootsweb: Caribbean http://landing.ancestry.co.uk/intl/uk/barbados.aspx?o_iid=35816&o_lid=35816& offerid=0%3a7935%3a0 I was amazed at the number of Molls listed in the Barbados Register Peter Moll Tortola, BVI No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM

Intermarried is a term used for when someone marries someone outside of their family, group, clan or tribe. It was also used in the 1800's to describe someone who married someone not of their race or religion, such as a black marrying a white, a Jew marrying a non-Jew. Hope that helps. Cheers, Rick On Apr 10, 4:10 pm, "Emanuel, Yvonne E CIV USA AMC" <[email protected]> wrote: > Group, > > My Cuzin' Shannon (we found each other while doing research)who has > become a tenacious researcher since getting the family tree bug aroused, > sent this email to me. We are trying to figure out what "intermarriage > means "? There is a particulr Catherine Belfon we are lookiing for. Was > this woman a Belfon marrying her cuzin' another Belfon???? Please read > Shannons findings and tell us what you think. > > We would appreciate your input- Cuzin Choli >

According to the online Oxford English Dictionary - you are All each one of you Correct! 1. The action or fact of intermarrying; union in or connexion by marriage. a. Of two persons, or of one person with another. Now only in legal phraseology = ‘Marriage’, in ordinary use. b. Marriage between members of different families, castes, tribes, nations, or societies, as establishing a connexion between such families, etc. 2. loosely. Marriage between persons (or interbreeding between animals) nearly related; consanguineous marriage or breeding. Hope it pleases everybody! David On 12 Apr 2008, at 01:58, [email protected] wrote: > "Intermarried" could be someone's idea of a legal term, although it > would have been old-fashioned even in the 1890s.? I haven't heard it > used for cousin marriage, but I guess it could be.? It's true, > though, that cousin marriage is common in the West Indies.? My > ggrandfather's sister in St. Vincent married a first cousin, and? > when I was a kid in San Juan PR our neighbors were first cousins and > his parents were first cousins as well.? Their kid, who was about my > age, was a little hard to relate to.? Not enough genes to go around. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cathy A. <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:25 pm > Subject: Re: [Carib] FW: Re: Belfon Research > > > > Hi Choli, > > I'm with Cecilia. Her definition has come up for me in the Grendada > records also. Here is an example: > > ...whereas the said Mary Angelina intermarried with the said George > LaPlace on the twenty sixth day of July one thousand eight hundred and > ninety-three and the said Maria Isabella intermarried with the said > Emmanuel Rodriguez on... > > I think it is simply the legal phraseology of the time for married. > Even though in an informal sense it might mean marriage between > cousins, I don't think it has the same meaning for legal documents. > > Cathy > > > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and > Barbuda > http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of > the message > > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and > Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

"Intermarried" could be someone's idea of a legal term, although it would have been old-fashioned even in the 1890s.? I haven't heard it used for cousin marriage, but I guess it could be.? It's true, though, that cousin marriage is common in the West Indies.? My ggrandfather's sister in St. Vincent married a first cousin, and? when I was a kid in San Juan PR our neighbors were first cousins and his parents were first cousins as well.? Their kid, who was about my age, was a little hard to relate to.? Not enough genes to go around. -----Original Message----- From: Cathy A. <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:25 pm Subject: Re: [Carib] FW: Re: Belfon Research Hi Choli, I'm with Cecilia. Her definition has come up for me in the Grendada records also. Here is an example: ...whereas the said Mary Angelina intermarried with the said George LaPlace on the twenty sixth day of July one thousand eight hundred and ninety-three and the said Maria Isabella intermarried with the said Emmanuel Rodriguez on... I think it is simply the legal phraseology of the time for married. Even though in an informal sense it might mean marriage between cousins, I don't think it has the same meaning for legal documents. Cathy *************************** The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Emanuel, Intermarriage means when cousins marry cousins, I used to Hear the Older people saying that it is better that their children intermarriage , than marry some one that they don't know any thing about as if they have any problems in the marriage the family sort it out, I was born in St Vincent in The Caribbean, and I have allot of cousins marry cousins, So that is the meaning so far of what I have been told any way, [ but we used to say keeping it in the family ] [ SMILE ] Rita Murphy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emanuel, Yvonne E CIV USA AMC" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:10 PM Subject: [Carib] FW: Re: Belfon Research > Group, > > My Cuzin' Shannon (we found each other while doing research)who has > become a tenacious researcher since getting the family tree bug aroused, > sent this email to me. We are trying to figure out what "intermarriage > means "? There is a particulr Catherine Belfon we are lookiing for. Was > this woman a Belfon marrying her cuzin' another Belfon???? Please read > Shannons findings and tell us what you think. > > We would appreciate your input- Cuzin Choli > > FROM SHANNON: > "Property document: > > no. 326 > 1897 > 21st day of October 1897 > > acknowledgement of Catherine (or Caiherine) Belfon is married woman. > > Agreement between her and Walter Joasiah Lucas in Victoria, ST. Mark's > Tailor (of the 1st part Eillian Lucas) of St. John's (I don't understand > this part--will revisit) > > Albert Belfon of Charlotte Town, St. John's > > Catherine Belfon intermarried w/ Albert Belfon formerly Catherine Lucas. > > Choli and I have determined this is a different Catherine Belfon. Does > anyone know what intermarriage means here? I think it either means two > cousins marrying or that they were of different races. Those are two > totally different definitions, so I'm seeking clarification. This is > exciting! Fillistire Belfon, father of Felicity was a son of Alexis > Belfon. We're getting there. I tell you. I can feel Catherine Belfon's > presence. I see her standing in front of lots of family happy. > > Shannon" > > > > THERE WAS MUCH MORE TO THIS EMAIL BUT I REMOVED IT. IF ANYONE IS > INTERESTED IN THE "WILL" INFORMATION THAT Shannon researched I will > share it. > > Yvonne Emanuel aka Cuzin Choli > > O > > *************************** > The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and > Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

"Emanuel, Yvonne E CIV USA AMC" wrote: >[...] We are trying to figure out what "intermarriage >means "[...] >Catherine Belfon intermarried w/ Albert Belfon formerly Catherine Lucas. >[...] Does >anyone know what intermarriage means here? I think it either means two >cousins marrying or that they were of different races. Those are two >totally different definitions, so I'm seeking clarification. [...] It could merely mean "married". In a thread in soc.genealogy.methods with subject Meaning of "Intermarriage" singhals posted (7 April 2003. 17:31) a quote stated to be from pg 952, Black's Law Dictionary, 4th ed, 1951 ' in law, it is sometimes used (and with propriety) to empahsize the mutuality of the marriage contract and as importing a reciprocal engagement by which each of the parties "marries" the other. Thus, in a pleading, instead of averring that "the plaintiff was married to the defendant," it would be proper to allege that "the parties intermarried" at such a time and place.'

Hi Choli, I'm with Cecilia. Her definition has come up for me in the Grendada records also. Here is an example: ...whereas the said Mary Angelina intermarried with the said George LaPlace on the twenty sixth day of July one thousand eight hundred and ninety-three and the said Maria Isabella intermarried with the said Emmanuel Rodriguez on... I think it is simply the legal phraseology of the time for married. Even though in an informal sense it might mean marriage between cousins, I don't think it has the same meaning for legal documents. Cathy

Group, My Cuzin' Shannon (we found each other while doing research)who has become a tenacious researcher since getting the family tree bug aroused, sent this email to me. We are trying to figure out what "intermarriage means "? There is a particulr Catherine Belfon we are lookiing for. Was this woman a Belfon marrying her cuzin' another Belfon???? Please read Shannons findings and tell us what you think. We would appreciate your input- Cuzin Choli FROM SHANNON: "Property document: no. 326 1897 21st day of October 1897 acknowledgement of Catherine (or Caiherine) Belfon is married woman. Agreement between her and Walter Joasiah Lucas in Victoria, ST. Mark's Tailor (of the 1st part Eillian Lucas) of St. John's (I don't understand this part--will revisit) Albert Belfon of Charlotte Town, St. John's Catherine Belfon intermarried w/ Albert Belfon formerly Catherine Lucas. Choli and I have determined this is a different Catherine Belfon. Does anyone know what intermarriage means here? I think it either means two cousins marrying or that they were of different races. Those are two totally different definitions, so I'm seeking clarification. This is exciting! Fillistire Belfon, father of Felicity was a son of Alexis Belfon. We're getting there. I tell you. I can feel Catherine Belfon's presence. I see her standing in front of lots of family happy. Shannon" THERE WAS MUCH MORE TO THIS EMAIL BUT I REMOVED IT. IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN THE "WILL" INFORMATION THAT Shannon researched I will share it. Yvonne Emanuel aka Cuzin Choli O

Island paradise ... or island prison? http://landing.ancestry.co.uk/intl/uk/barbados.aspx?o_iid=35816&o_lid=35816&offerid=0%3a7935%3a0 I was amazed at the number of Molls listed in the Barbados Register Peter Moll Tortola BVI

Can anyone recommend good geneology researchers in Barbados? I am trying to find "natural" children of Evan John Murray MacGregor, Governor of the Windward Islands (1836 - 1841) Rory _____________________________ Rory McGregor tel. +44 20 7258 0048 mobile +44 7803 721 496 fax +44 870 137 6497 USA tel number +1 (914) 595-6025 (SKYPE) email: [email protected]

Dorothy , Found it . Thanks . Phillip ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Kew" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [Carib] [Carib-L] Slave Registers of BritishColonialDependencies, 1812-1834 [long] > Hi, Philip: > > It isn't easy, I know. Interestingly enough a couple days ago only > Barbados > was on and I even sent a message to Ancestry asking when the other islands > would be included. I got no reply and certainly no notice about it. > > When you bring up Ancestry, click on "See all databases" and on the next > page you'll get a search screen at the bottom headed "Refine Your Search > of > the Ancestry Database Catalog. In the "keywords" box just put in "slave > registers" and it will come up. > > Hope that helps! > > Dorothy >

Hi, Philip: It isn't easy, I know. Interestingly enough a couple days ago only Barbados was on and I even sent a message to Ancestry asking when the other islands would be included. I got no reply and certainly no notice about it. When you bring up Ancestry, click on "See all databases" and on the next page you'll get a search screen at the bottom headed "Refine Your Search of the Ancestry Database Catalog. In the "keywords" box just put in "slave registers" and it will come up. Hope that helps! Dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillip Abbott - Abbott Farms To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Carib] [Carib-L] Slave Registers of British ColonialDependencies, 1812-1834 [long] How is it possible to get to this site . I have been to Ancestry.com but cannot then find the Slave registers . Would love some help . Regards , Phillip ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Kew" <[email protected]> To: "Caribbean List" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:17 AM Subject: [Carib] [Carib-L] Slave Registers of British Colonial Dependencies,1812-1834 [long] > Good news! Ancestry has just put on its subscription website the Slave > Registers of British Colonial Dependencies, 1812-1834. Here is a brief > description of the areas covered: [snip]