Here is a copy of an e-mail message that I sent to the Derbyshire list: I am having trouble tracking down two of my ancestors and would be grateful for any advice. I have found the baptism for Philip Gell Spencer: Phillip Gell Spencer christened 8th June 1862, Crich, Derby, England. Father - Thomas. Batch No. C049781. Someone also kindly looked at the IGI fiche for me and it states that Philip's parents were Thomas and Mary, but there isn't a marriage for Thomas and Mary on the IGI. I sent away for Philip's birth certificate to Crich thinking that if he was baptised there, then he must have been born there, but they could not find any trace of him. I have found Philip in the 1881 census: Dwelling: 71 Newhall St Census Place: Birmingham, Warwick, England Source: FHL Film 1341719 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3010 Folio 108 Page 1 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Philip G. SPENCER U 18 M ...hall, Shropshire, England Rel: Lodger (Head) Occ: Fire Insurance Clerk There is a place on the map named Benthall in Shropshire, but I can't find any other Spencers in that area on the 1881 census. I was wondering if it was more likely that he came from Newhall on the Derby/Staffordshire border and that the county is just down incorrectly on the census. Does anyone have access any Newhall census indexes presuming that there is any for the 1871 census or even the 1861 census for Thomas Spencer. Look forward to any advice that you may be able to give me. Sharon Newall Cheshire Someone suggested that my family may have been canal people and that I should subscribe to this list. Has anybody any ideas as to whether my family were on the canals or heard of this family in particular. Many thanks!