Gordon: Do exactly what you are doing, and watch this horrible bill become law! While you dither, the Government is ramming this bill through Parliament. They are counting on the fact that you, Muriel and all those that led this cause are exhausted. How about calling every newspaper columnist that has done an article on this subject and telling them how the Genealogy community has been betrayed. How the Government is ramming through a bill that will forever lock up future census data, and is placing unreasonable restrictions on what will be released. Tell them how the Government is so paranoid about "Privacy" that they are planning to restrict information about people long dead, forever? Picket, create chaos, do whatever needs to be done to draw attention to this rape of the process. It is probably too late now, but one can still try. I was flamed repeatedly, by a number of people on this list, for pointing out that you were being misled by the politicians. That there was no real intention to ever allow any significant amendments to Bill S-13. That your friendly Senator was sponsoring a bill that would cause irreparable harm to Genealogists. I was told to shut up, not make waves, stop agitating. I was cursed, I was told that I would not be wanted as a Canadian, and I was threatened with a lawsuit. Well, it appears that you all WERE lied to by your politician friends. They lied by OMISSION, by NOT telling you all of the truth. They used your personal relationships and friendships to help accomplish their goals. They wanted you to be complacent, to believe that you could still obtain what we all want. In the meantime, Bill S-13 sails on through. READ the arguments by the sponsor of the Bill. Where is the passion on the part of the sponsor? Where is there any real push to change a thing? This thing is a farce, a "fait accompli". You've been gulled, by masters at the process. And so bill S-13 will become law, and the vast majority of Canadians will never know the difference. The full impact of this new law will not hit for 92+ years, and I suspect that all of us will be long dead by that time. To the average person, genealogy is NOT important, and this law will not matter a whit. The Government knows this, and they count on it. Perhaps now, you believe that you were LIED to. Personally, I would be about about as angry as a half drowned cat, if I were a Canadian. As someone pointed out, it's a bit of a shock to find out that your politicians are no different from those in any other western country. But keep on discussing things. Take no real action, keep on talking. After all, that's the Canadian way, isn't it? One must not become agitated, one must not become overly vocal, that just isn't the proper way to behave. And while you are discussing what to do, Bill S-13 will become law, and then it will be too late. Senator Milne could withdraw as sponsor if she really did not believe in this bill. No one can force any Senator or MP to sponsor a bill they do not support. She isn't withdrawing her sponsorship, is she? What does that tell you? The government was faced with a judicial decision to open the 1906 census. They placated you, and the action was withdrawn. It's too bad you hadn't asked for full disclosure of ALL census returns. You would have won, and the Government would have had to pay your legal fees. But they conned you, big time. Your friends conned you. You were promised something that would make you all happy, in January. Well, are you happy now? You can't sue the government after S-13 is passed. It will be way too late by then. Your only chance now is to get this bill KILLED! Are you still happy with what was promised to you? ===== Lynton (Bill) Stewart A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who's Canadian Citizenship was automatically stripped away without any notice, due to the fact that I was born prior to 1947. My siblings born after that date get to resume their Canadian Citizenship. I do not have that same right. Searching for Moore, McLennan, Peers, Stewart, Thompson in NS;. Black, Foulds, Johnston and Stewart in MB; Provorse, Wright in ON, and Black, Foulds & Stewart in SK & BC.

Dear Lynton, The Federal Court action was for the release of the 1906 census only because it was, essentially, a Writ of Mandamus. You cannot use a Writ of Mandamus until the government official has failed to do his duty. We cannot commence that sort of action for the release of later census until the 92 years is up for each. Bill S-13 is not going to get through the House of Commons without debate. If the Bill is delayed long enough by the privacy fanatics in the Senate and then debate in the House of Commons, we can commence another Federal Court action for the release of the 1911 census. We can only do this one census at a time. This is not the only legal angle but it is the one I know well. I would prefer to be an Applicant this time, rather than lead counsel. By the way, I did get costs from the Feds in Beatty et al. versus the Chief Statistician et al. The refund cheques for most of the donors went out on May 1. Although I believe in the integrity of Jeff Paul and Senator Milne, I, for one, have never relied solely on what she believed she could do on our behalf. It would be folly to only have one plan of action. There has always been Plan "B" and there still is. In fact, Plans "C" and "D" seem to be in the development stage. For example, a few of us in Calgary have made sure that Bill S-13 will be debated in the House of Commons. I understand that others have done much the same thing in at least one other part of the country. Finally, there is no such thing as "forever" in law or politics. Lois Sparling Calgary, Alberta Lynton Stewart wrote: >Gordon: > >Do exactly what you are doing, and watch this horrible >bill become law! While you dither, the Government is >ramming this bill through Parliament. They are counting on >the fact that you, Muriel and all those that led this cause >are exhausted. > > > >Senator Milne could withdraw as sponsor if she really did >not believe in this bill. No one can force any Senator or >MP to sponsor a bill they do not support. She isn't >withdrawing her sponsorship, is she? What does that tell >you? > > > > >

Lois: Debate is fine. I love to debate. Forensics was one of my favorite subjects in College. Jeff Paul stated very openly today that the government will not allow any substantive amendemtns to Bill S-13. If any were to be passed, the Government will instruct its member to vote the bill down. His wording was very clear (I made him mad, and he answered honestly, instead of the usual weasel words). Now how can you, or anyone else, believe that any significant amendment will be allowed to this bill? There will be no amendments to the 20 year period of restricted access, and no amendments to the "Opt In" clause. Those are the two worst areas of this bill. As to the "Undertaking", how can anyone believe anything that has been "leaked" about it? The government does not want anyone to know what will be in the "Undertaking". I will bet you a hundred dollars to a Cruller that it will be a LOT more restrictive than what we have been led to believe. I have had a member of the Governing party threaten me over this issue. Threaten to harm my chances to regain my Canadian Citizenship, if I did not keep my mouth shut and make no more comments about the issue. The threat was very specific, that comments would be made to the Minister that would block my resumption of Citizenship, permanently. The person making those threats did not know me. I do not capitulate to threats. I'm a stubborn, passionionate Canadian/American. If anything, that threat will just keep me going longer and stronger. I hope to someday resume my Canadian Citizenship. I am currently planning a legal action in the Federal Courts, on the basis that the Government is discriminating against persons born prior to 1947 because of our age. This violates section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Since people in the identical circumstances born after 1947 may resume their citizenship by filling out a form and paying a fee (and proving their previous citizenship of course), it is discrimination based on age to not allow those born before 1947 the same privilege. We will of course be asking that the Government pay all costs in this action. I do have some familiarity with the law. I work as an Expert Witness in the Federal Courts of this Country I work with attornies regularly, as well as Judges, Masters, etc. Both of our systems are based upon the English Common Law, so there are many similarities. I am familiar with a "Writ of Mandamus" as an example. One of our more famous such writs wad "Plessy v Ferguson", a black eye to American Jurisprudence. When I speak of legal action, I am in favor of a new action being taken, to compel the release of the 1911, AND ALL FUTURE CENSUS RETURNS, after 92 years, without restrictions. I say, let the government bring their "Promise" into open court, in full view of everyone. Want to bet that they would lose? Let's kill this horrible bill, and drive a stake through its heart, so it can't arise again. If it slips into law, I am terribly afraid that there will be some very nasty surprises as a result. Thanks for your comments, ===== Lynton (Bill) Stewart A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who's Canadian Citizenship was automatically stripped away without any notice, due to the fact that I was born prior to 1947. My siblings born after that date get to resume their Canadian Citizenship. I do not have that same right. Searching for Moore, McLennan, Peers, Stewart, Thompson in NS;. Black, Foulds, Johnston and Stewart in MB; Provorse, Wright in ON, and Black, Foulds & Stewart in SK & BC.

Lois: I am advocating KILLING bill S-13, driving a stake through it's heart so it can never come back to life again, and then filing a new legal action. An action to compel the Government to release the 1911, and ALL FUTURE Census returns after 92 years, without restrictions. Let the government fight this issue out in Court, where it can't control the vote. Debate is wonderful. I love debat. I enjoyed forensics when I was in College. It is a lot of fun. But, unfortunately, it is also like Philosophy, there is little substance there. It's like eating Cotton Candy, sweet, without any nourishment. Debate this bill in Parliament, and watch what happens. Debate will be cut off through Parliamentary rules. The bill will become law, and then it will be too late to take any legal actions. I agree, a plac 'B', 'C', 'D', etc. are important. We are now beyond plan 'B', which was to get reasonable amendments to the bill. Now it is time to move on, to another plan level. Of course that's just my opinion. But, so far, I've called it pretty accurately, even though a LOT of people told me I was wrong. I hope I am wrong this time. But even if I am, does it hurt to try to kill this stupid bill? ===== Lynton (Bill) Stewart A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who's Canadian Citizenship was automatically stripped away without any notice, due to the fact that I was born prior to 1947. My siblings born after that date get to resume their Canadian Citizenship. I do not have that same right. Searching for Moore, McLennan, Peers, Stewart, Thompson in NS;. Black, Foulds, Johnston and Stewart in MB; Provorse, Wright in ON, and Black, Foulds & Stewart in SK & BC.