I would like to make a point here that I think is really important. There seems to be a tendency here to separate Senator Milne from the governing party. They are one and the same thing. If the Liberal Party was genuinely against this movement, Senator Milne would have been shut down a long time ago. The fact of the matter is that over 99% of Liberals support our cause and are just figuring out how to balance the privacy issues that inherently go along with it. So to answer something that Mr. Westman said, the governing party is not allowing Fellegi to get away with anything. Just the opposite. It is some of the most partisan Liberal staff, MPs, and Senators who are fighting tooth and nail against Dr. Fellegi to ensure that he doesn't get away with anything. Sen. Milne, Murray Calder, Richard McGuire and I are just the ones you hear about. Jeff Paul -----Original Message----- From: Herb Westman [mailto:herb.westman@sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:20 AM To: Paul, Jeff: SEN; CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CCC] Bella Online Article I would like to express great gratitude to Jeff Paul and Senator Milne for their tireless work on our behalf. The unfortunate thing about this situation is that the currently governing party has allowed Mr. Fellegi to "get away" with his obstructionism, sort of like aiding and abetting, so supporters of what appears to be the lawful position in this case have to go to the political opposition to press the issue and get public recognition for our position. The Privacy Act has many deficiencies in it or alternatively has been abused by those lacking in common sense. I have had personal experience with this type of situation in a case of a relative dying without a will and the result has been what could be called stupidity, speaking most charitably; obstruction of common justice might be another way to describe it. Most incredible! Perhaps in this case Mr. Fellegi is looking to create a reason for his early retirement with a healthy severance package - he deserves no respect for this action. Again thanks to Mr. Paul and Senator Milne for their battle for common sense. More profuse thanks will arrive when the battle is finally won. Herb Westman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA> To: <CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: [CCC] Bella Online Article > Good morning everyone: > > Unfortunately I have to take some time this morning to take issue with > some comments made by Gordon Watts in the Bella Online article that > Gilbert Provost posted yesterday. In particular I am shocked and > disappointed at the comments made by Gordon that the political party > that has been the most supportive of the Canada Census Project has been > the Conservative Party and its predecessor, the Canadian Alliance. That > would have been bad enough, but he went further to say that the Liberal > Party has been the least supportive of this issue. > > The fact of the matter is that there is only 1 MP or Senator currently > actively working on this file and that is Senator Lorna Milne - and she > is a Liberal. The only MP to have ever taken this issue seriously is > former MP Murray Calder who was also a Liberal. I can also tell you > that there have been more than a few cabinet ministers that have been > pushing for the release of the census, but because of cabinet > confidentiality issues, they can't do so publically. > > What is even more disappointing in Gordon's comments is the number of > times that he has dealt with our office, has met with Senator Milne, has > plotted strategy with Senator Milne, and has asked Senator Milne for > advice. How he can possibly say that he has had more support from > Conservatives is absolutely beyond me. I would have thought that by now > Gordon would understand that it is very easy for an opposition member to > say that they support someone 100% because they never have to deliver > anything. As far as Gordon is concerned all that a party has to do is > pay lip service and say yes to his questions and he will give them all > the credit in the world. However since Senator Milne is a government > member and has to deliver on this file, her 5 years of work, endless > meetings with 5 different cabinet ministers, 3 privacy commissioners, 2 > access to information commissioners, dozens of MPs and Senators and more > speeches in the Senate and to caucus than I can count, simply do not add > up to enough support for Gordon to even warrant a mention when directly > asked about how much political support he has received. > > I will be very blunt by telling everyone that we do not and we can not > list everything that Senator Milne does to work on this file on this > listserve. If we did, no cabinet minister would ever meet with us on > any issue ever again. Since you folks last heard from me there have > been numerous meetings on this file. We are pushing very hard to get > the government to act. I know that there is huge support within the > Liberal Party to get this resolved. But if we announce baby steps and > maybes and all of the ups and downs of negotiations that would be the > end of this project. > > The fact of the matter is that Gordon knows all of this very well, and > there have been times over the years that we have let him in on various > things in advance and in secrecy in order to properly measure what the > response of the genealogical community would be. He knows that we have > been working on this file on an ongoing basis. In fact Gordon knows > that Sen. Milne has been working to find a champion in the House of > Commons for this one. We even talked about that last week. I find it > quite amusing that one week he would suggest that we find a Liberal to > champion the cause in the House, and the next he would be complaining in > the media of the lack of support from the Liberal Party. > > That all having been said, I want you all to know that this file > continues to be a very very hot one in our office. We've been meeting > with and talking to people as recently as this past Monday on the file. > I hope that this kind of support by Liberals is sufficient for Gordon's > liking. > > Yours truly, > > Jeff Paul > Policy Advisor > Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne > Ph: (613) 947-9744 > Cell: (613) 715-2965 > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to > CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L-request@rootsweb.com that contains > (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command > -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > >

With due respect to Jeff Paul, political parties try to appear to be all things to all people & thus will allow a minority faction to be visible & noisy about a cause in which they ardently believe, knowing who has the votes. They want the public to think real debate is occurring. That way, they avoid the ire of supporters of that cause. The "privacy issue" is specious, since 92-year-old census data is useless for identity theft or whatever. The only people for whom census data has value are the families & historians. The US releases its census data 20 years earlier than Canada & has never had a "privacy issue." There is no justification for delaying release of Canadian census data even the current 92 years. The goal should be to release it as soon as practicable, not as late as possible. If the Liberal Party was really interested in release of the census records, it would direct Fellegi to turn the records over to the Archivist, as provided by law & practiced without problem, until his intervention. Betty St. Charles, IL -----Original Message----- From: Paul, Jeff: SEN [mailto:PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:27 AM To: CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CCC] Bella Online Article I would like to make a point here that I think is really important. There seems to be a tendency here to separate Senator Milne from the governing party. They are one and the same thing. If the Liberal Party was genuinely against this movement, Senator Milne would have been shut down a long time ago. The fact of the matter is that over 99% of Liberals support our cause and are just figuring out how to balance the privacy issues that inherently go along with it. So to answer something that Mr. Westman said, the governing party is not allowing Fellegi to get away with anything. Just the opposite. It is some of the most partisan Liberal staff, MPs, and Senators who are fighting tooth and nail against Dr. Fellegi to ensure that he doesn't get away with anything. Sen. Milne, Murray Calder, Richard McGuire and I are just the ones you hear about. Jeff Paul -----Original Message----- From: Herb Westman [mailto:herb.westman@sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:20 AM To: Paul, Jeff: SEN; CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CCC] Bella Online Article I would like to express great gratitude to Jeff Paul and Senator Milne for their tireless work on our behalf. The unfortunate thing about this situation is that the currently governing party has allowed Mr. Fellegi to "get away" with his obstructionism, sort of like aiding and abetting, so supporters of what appears to be the lawful position in this case have to go to the political opposition to press the issue and get public recognition for our position. The Privacy Act has many deficiencies in it or alternatively has been abused by those lacking in common sense. I have had personal experience with this type of situation in a case of a relative dying without a will and the result has been what could be called stupidity, speaking most charitably; obstruction of common justice might be another way to describe it. Most incredible! Perhaps in this case Mr. Fellegi is looking to create a reason for his early retirement with a healthy severance package - he deserves no respect for this action. Again thanks to Mr. Paul and Senator Milne for their battle for common sense. More profuse thanks will arrive when the battle is finally won. Herb Westman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA> To: <CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: [CCC] Bella Online Article > Good morning everyone: > > Unfortunately I have to take some time this morning to take issue with > some comments made by Gordon Watts in the Bella Online article that > Gilbert Provost posted yesterday. In particular I am shocked and > disappointed at the comments made by Gordon that the political party > that has been the most supportive of the Canada Census Project has been > the Conservative Party and its predecessor, the Canadian Alliance. That > would have been bad enough, but he went further to say that the Liberal > Party has been the least supportive of this issue. > > The fact of the matter is that there is only 1 MP or Senator currently > actively working on this file and that is Senator Lorna Milne - and she > is a Liberal. The only MP to have ever taken this issue seriously is > former MP Murray Calder who was also a Liberal. I can also tell you > that there have been more than a few cabinet ministers that have been > pushing for the release of the census, but because of cabinet > confidentiality issues, they can't do so publically. > > What is even more disappointing in Gordon's comments is the number of > times that he has dealt with our office, has met with Senator Milne, has > plotted strategy with Senator Milne, and has asked Senator Milne for > advice. How he can possibly say that he has had more support from > Conservatives is absolutely beyond me. I would have thought that by now > Gordon would understand that it is very easy for an opposition member to > say that they support someone 100% because they never have to deliver > anything. As far as Gordon is concerned all that a party has to do is > pay lip service and say yes to his questions and he will give them all > the credit in the world. However since Senator Milne is a government > member and has to deliver on this file, her 5 years of work, endless > meetings with 5 different cabinet ministers, 3 privacy commissioners, 2 > access to information commissioners, dozens of MPs and Senators and more > speeches in the Senate and to caucus than I can count, simply do not add > up to enough support for Gordon to even warrant a mention when directly > asked about how much political support he has received. > > I will be very blunt by telling everyone that we do not and we can not > list everything that Senator Milne does to work on this file on this > listserve. If we did, no cabinet minister would ever meet with us on > any issue ever again. Since you folks last heard from me there have > been numerous meetings on this file. We are pushing very hard to get > the government to act. I know that there is huge support within the > Liberal Party to get this resolved. But if we announce baby steps and > maybes and all of the ups and downs of negotiations that would be the > end of this project. > > The fact of the matter is that Gordon knows all of this very well, and > there have been times over the years that we have let him in on various > things in advance and in secrecy in order to properly measure what the > response of the genealogical community would be. He knows that we have > been working on this file on an ongoing basis. In fact Gordon knows > that Sen. Milne has been working to find a champion in the House of > Commons for this one. We even talked about that last week. I find it > quite amusing that one week he would suggest that we find a Liberal to > champion the cause in the House, and the next he would be complaining in > the media of the lack of support from the Liberal Party. > > That all having been said, I want you all to know that this file > continues to be a very very hot one in our office. We've been meeting > with and talking to people as recently as this past Monday on the file. > I hope that this kind of support by Liberals is sufficient for Gordon's > liking. > > Yours truly, > > Jeff Paul > Policy Advisor > Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne > Ph: (613) 947-9744 > Cell: (613) 715-2965 > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to > CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L-request@rootsweb.com that contains > (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command > -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== Keep up to date on Post 1901 Census Issues at http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ en frangais http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm