I am waiting for people to send in positive replies for the release of the 1911 and later census records. There will be a plan put in place which, hopefully, will allow members of the Canada Census Committee to retire and get back to personal family research. When I wish to comment to a person, regardless of my thoughts, I do this "face-to-face" -- even on e-mail!! Let's COOL and CHILL this topic immediately -- there are no only private citizens of Canada subscribed and might enjoy the in-fighting, which I certainly do not. Muriel ----- Original Message ----- From: "fredastewart" <fritzzi@shaw.ca> To: <CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [CCC] Bella Online Article Hi Jeff - IF there is debate it needs to be open to the public, in the House of Commons, so all members can take part and voice their opinions; and so all Canadians can hear what these arguments are and who is saying what. Most of the privacy thing is a scare mongering tactic to deflect from real issues. Sorry Jeff but I've had it up to the ears with so-called privacy issues. Common-sense by people themselves needs to come into play. You can't legislate for everything or the system becomes so costly and cumbersome it can't possibly work. Freda Stewart ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA> > To: <CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:11 AM > Subject: RE: [CCC] Bella Online Article > > > > I'm sorry to disagree with Ms. Malone, but I find her arguments to be a > > bit cynical. The fact of the matter is that if the Liberal Party did > > not want the release of historic census records then the 1906 census > > never would have seen the light of day. The work of Murray Calder and > > Senator Milne, as well as the work of Muriel, Gordon, and everyone > > reading this list caused the 1906 census to be released. And I think > > that today is a good day to remind people that it was a Liberal > > government that released the 1906 census and it was a Liberal government > > that DID tell Fellegi to take off and introduced a bill to provide a > > structure for the relase of all future census records. Now it is true > > that Sen. Milne wanted amendments to that bill and it did not pass. > > There is a new minister involved now, and you will note that he has not > > yet stated a position on the release of historic census records. We > > will have to wait and measure him by the first pronouncements that he > > makes. > > > > Real debate is occurring on this issue. If there was no real debate the > > government would not have moved from stating that no records will ever > > be released to releasing the 1906 census and providing legislation that > > would allow for the future release of census records. Were we happy > > with the legislation - no. But that does not in any way shape or form > > support the assertion that there is no real debate. In fact it shows > > the exact opposite. > > > > As for whether or not the privacy issues are specious, well I would > > respectfully disagree. Don't forget that we are talking about privacy > > of both census that have taken place, and censuses that will take place. > > Does the government have the right to tell a person during the 2006 > > census that in 92 years all of the information that they collect will > > become public for all to see and no one can do anything about it? I > > think that is a question that reasonable people can have a healthy > > disagreement about. I would certainly agree with Ms. Malone that there > > is no harm in the government doing exactly that, and that I would vote > > for a bill that did that because I believe in the integrity of the > > historical record. However, I would not ever suggest that a person who > > wanted to make an argument that each person should decide whether or not > > to include their personal information from the 2006 census in the > > National Archives is making a specious argument about privacy. > > > > The government has clearly stated that they are not going to move on > > this file until a complete solution that looks at both long term and > > short term issues are thorougly examined and ONE solution is put into > > place to deal with it and put the file to bed. I can't say that I blame > > them. > > > > All that having been said, Senator Milne is still actively working on > > this file and the second that we know where the government is going, > > you'll be the first to hear. > > > > Jeff Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Betty Malone [mailto:bmalone@ameritech.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:47 PM > > To: Paul, Jeff: SEN; CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: RE: [CCC] Bella Online Article > > > > With due respect to Jeff Paul, political parties try to appear to be all > > things to all people & thus will allow a minority faction to be visible > > & noisy about a cause in which they ardently believe, knowing who has > > the > > votes. They want the public to think real debate is occurring. That > > way, > > they avoid the ire of supporters of that cause. > > > > The "privacy issue" is specious, since 92-year-old census data is > > useless > > for identity theft or whatever. The only people for whom census data > > has > > value are the families & historians. The US releases its census data > > 20 > > years earlier than Canada & has never had a "privacy issue." There is > > no > > justification for delaying release of Canadian census data even the > > current > > 92 years. The goal should be to release it as soon as practicable, not > > as > > late as possible. > > > > If the Liberal Party was really interested in release of the census > > records, it would direct Fellegi to turn the records over to the > > Archivist, as provided by law & practiced without problem, until his > > intervention. > > > > Betty > > St. Charles, IL > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul, Jeff: SEN [mailto:PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:27 AM > > To: CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: RE: [CCC] Bella Online Article > > > > I would like to make a point here that I think is really important. > > There seems to be a tendency here to separate Senator Milne from the > > governing party. They are one and the same thing. If the Liberal Party > > was genuinely against this movement, Senator Milne would have been shut > > down a long time ago. The fact of the matter is that over 99% of > > Liberals support our cause and are just figuring out how to balance the > > privacy issues that inherently go along with it. > > > > So to answer something that Mr. Westman said, the governing party is not > > allowing Fellegi to get away with anything. Just the opposite. It is > > some of the most partisan Liberal staff, MPs, and Senators who are > > fighting tooth and nail against Dr. Fellegi to ensure that he doesn't > > get away with anything. Sen. Milne, Murray Calder, Richard McGuire and > > I are just the ones you hear about. > > > > Jeff Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Herb Westman [mailto:herb.westman@sympatico.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:20 AM > > To: Paul, Jeff: SEN; CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [CCC] Bella Online Article > > > > I would like to express great gratitude to Jeff Paul and Senator Milne > > for their tireless work on our behalf. > > > > The unfortunate thing about this situation is that the currently > > governing party has allowed Mr. Fellegi to "get away" with his > > obstructionism, sort of like aiding and abetting, so supporters of what > > appears to be the lawful position in this case have to go to the > > political opposition to press the issue and get public recognition for > > our position. The Privacy Act has many deficiencies in it or > > alternatively has been abused by those lacking in common sense. I have > > had personal experience with this type of situation in a case of a > > relative dying without a will and the result has been what could be > > called stupidity, speaking most charitably; obstruction of common > > justice might be another way to describe it. Most incredible! Perhaps > > in this case Mr. Fellegi is looking to create a reason for his early > > retirement with a healthy severance package - he deserves no respect for > > this action. > > > > Again thanks to Mr. Paul and Senator Milne for their battle for common > > sense. More profuse thanks will arrive when the battle is finally won. > > > > Herb Westman > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA> > > To: <CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:58 AM > > Subject: [CCC] Bella Online Article > > > > > >> Good morning everyone: > >> > >> Unfortunately I have to take some time this morning to take issue with > > > >> some comments made by Gordon Watts in the Bella Online article that > >> Gilbert Provost posted yesterday. In particular I am shocked and > >> disappointed at the comments made by Gordon that the political party > >> that has been the most supportive of the Canada Census Project has > > been > >> the Conservative Party and its predecessor, the Canadian Alliance. > > That > >> would have been bad enough, but he went further to say that the > > Liberal > >> Party has been the least supportive of this issue. > >> > >> The fact of the matter is that there is only 1 MP or Senator currently > > > >> actively working on this file and that is Senator Lorna Milne - and > > she > >> is a Liberal. The only MP to have ever taken this issue seriously is > >> former MP Murray Calder who was also a Liberal. I can also tell you > >> that there have been more than a few cabinet ministers that have been > >> pushing for the release of the census, but because of cabinet > >> confidentiality issues, they can't do so publically. > >> > >> What is even more disappointing in Gordon's comments is the number of > >> times that he has dealt with our office, has met with Senator Milne, > > has > >> plotted strategy with Senator Milne, and has asked Senator Milne for > >> advice. How he can possibly say that he has had more support from > >> Conservatives is absolutely beyond me. I would have thought that by > > now > >> Gordon would understand that it is very easy for an opposition member > > to > >> say that they support someone 100% because they never have to deliver > >> anything. As far as Gordon is concerned all that a party has to do is > > > >> pay lip service and say yes to his questions and he will give them all > > > >> the credit in the world. However since Senator Milne is a government > >> member and has to deliver on this file, her 5 years of work, endless > >> meetings with 5 different cabinet ministers, 3 privacy commissioners, > > 2 > >> access to information commissioners, dozens of MPs and Senators and > > more > >> speeches in the Senate and to caucus than I can count, simply do not > > add > >> up to enough support for Gordon to even warrant a mention when > > directly > >> asked about how much political support he has received. > >> > >> I will be very blunt by telling everyone that we do not and we can not > > > >> list everything that Senator Milne does to work on this file on this > >> listserve. If we did, no cabinet minister would ever meet with us on > >> any issue ever again. Since you folks last heard from me there have > >> been numerous meetings on this file. We are pushing very hard to get > >> the government to act. I know that there is huge support within the > >> Liberal Party to get this resolved. But if we announce baby steps and > > > >> maybes and all of the ups and downs of negotiations that would be the > >> end of this project. > >> > >> The fact of the matter is that Gordon knows all of this very well, and > > > >> there have been times over the years that we have let him in on > > various > >> things in advance and in secrecy in order to properly measure what the > > > >> response of the genealogical community would be. He knows that we > > have > >> been working on this file on an ongoing basis. In fact Gordon knows > >> that Sen. Milne has been working to find a champion in the House of > >> Commons for this one. We even talked about that last week. I find it > > > >> quite amusing that one week he would suggest that we find a Liberal to > > > >> champion the cause in the House, and the next he would be complaining > > in > >> the media of the lack of support from the Liberal Party. > >> > >> That all having been said, I want you all to know that this file > >> continues to be a very very hot one in our office. We've been meeting > > > >> with and talking to people as recently as this past Monday on the > > file. > >> I hope that this kind of support by Liberals is sufficient for > > Gordon's > >> liking. > >> > >> Yours truly, > >> > >> Jeff Paul > >> Policy Advisor > >> Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne > >> Ph: (613) 947-9744 > >> Cell: (613) 715-2965 > >> > >> > >> > >> ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from > >> Mail Mode. 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