You can get instructions for an atomic bomb and such much easier than getting the census. Such is the stupidity of Governments. Patricia Corney, BHCD Quakertown, PA USA [email protected] Email scanned in and out by Norton 2003 ----- Original Message ----- From: wcook To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 7:03 PM Subject: [CCC] Re: [Can-Ont-Simcoe] Post 1901 Census -- further S-13 debates online Hello Gordon, I just finished reading the Hon. Terry Stratton's diatribe. It seems to me that he is against it. It's amazing how he can bring the Sars situation, World War l and the Flu Epidemic of 1918 into a debate on releasing the historical census. With due respect I think this senator is living in a world of his own. In the quote below it seems to me that he is referring to the dead as being a minority, I hardly think so as there are a lot of dead people out there, and if they did have the chance to speak they would probably tell the senator to sit down and shut up. He also says "One cannot go back, as I have said before, for example, with respect to Senator Chalifoux's bill on Louis Riel; one cannot remake history." One with half a brain knows that, however, we can certainly change the history books as new facts emerge. You could read 3 books about lets say World War l and come up with 3 different opinions about it. Again I must reiterate, common sense and logic has to determine the outcome of this Bill and so far I have seen little of that in the Senate (Dictatorship via Committee) . My God you think we were asking them to release papers on how to build a nuclear weapon. I think they must be smoking to much of that POT that they want to legalize. (just my 3 cents worth, after all the loonie was up to 73 cents today) "Therefore, I shall close by saying that, while I can appreciate the information as being valuable to certain people, there is also an act of respect that we are missing here to those who have gone before.This chamber exists to respect the minorities and, in this case, those who are not here, those who cannot speak for themselves. I believe we owe it to them to speak in that historical perspective and to try to understand from whence they came and why they made decisions they did at that time. It is important for us to never forget that in this chamber." Wayne Cook http://www.waynecook.com (A History Television Approved Site) and your Host for the Simcoe County Genweb page at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml Wasaga Beach, Ontario, Canada 1. Historic Plaques of Ontario 1,044 Plaques online http://www.waynecook.com 2. The Canadian Query Boards at http://www.waynecook.com/bulletin.html ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003

Hello Gordon, I just finished reading the Hon. Terry Stratton's diatribe. It seems to me that he is against it. It's amazing how he can bring the Sars situation, World War l and the Flu Epidemic of 1918 into a debate on releasing the historical census. With due respect I think this senator is living in a world of his own. In the quote below it seems to me that he is referring to the dead as being a minority, I hardly think so as there are a lot of dead people out there, and if they did have the chance to speak they would probably tell the senator to sit down and shut up. He also says "One cannot go back, as I have said before, for example, with respect to Senator Chalifoux's bill on Louis Riel; one cannot remake history." One with half a brain knows that, however, we can certainly change the history books as new facts emerge. You could read 3 books about lets say World War l and come up with 3 different opinions about it. Again I must reiterate, common sense and logic has to determine the outcome of this Bill and so far I have seen little of that in the Senate (Dictatorship via Committee) . My God you think we were asking them to release papers on how to build a nuclear weapon. I think they must be smoking to much of that POT that they want to legalize. (just my 3 cents worth, after all the loonie was up to 73 cents today) "Therefore, I shall close by saying that, while I can appreciate the information as being valuable to certain people, there is also an act of respect that we are missing here to those who have gone before.This chamber exists to respect the minorities and, in this case, those who are not here, those who cannot speak for themselves. I believe we owe it to them to speak in that historical perspective and to try to understand from whence they came and why they made decisions they did at that time. It is important for us to never forget that in this chamber." Wayne Cook http://www.waynecook.com (A History Television Approved Site) and your Host for the Simcoe County Genweb page at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml Wasaga Beach, Ontario, Canada 1. Historic Plaques of Ontario 1,044 Plaques online http://www.waynecook.com 2. The Canadian Query Boards at http://www.waynecook.com/bulletin.html

David. This will be the one and only message regarding this that I will post to the list and I post this here only because you posted the one below. You and I have had some discussion off-line regarding your position of Census posts on mail lists for which you are administrator. As administrator of those lists you have the right to run them as you see fit, the same as do I as administrator of the Canada Census Campaign list. I do not argue that in any way The statement Muriel made did not have any reference to any names, yours or anyone else's. If there has been any flaming done here I consider it to be in your response to her post. If you feel she was referring to you that is your privilege but it was not necessarily so. You will NOT be unsubscribed from this list. If you leave it will be on your own accord. In the history of this list I have unsubbed only one person -- for being deliberately and constantly obstructive. I ask only that you show the same respect for subscribers of this list that you demand for subscribers of those lists that you administer. For other subscribers to the CCC list I would request no other online posts regarding either David's message, or mine. Gordon A. Watts List administrator. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Cann" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [CCC] Why are we doing all this research? Muriel, You really should get your facts straight. You were removed from my lists (not "dumped") for repeatedly posting off topic posts to the lists, as was clearly explained to you each of the several times you did it. Now you are flaming as well. I would have thought a journalist would not have been so loose with the facts. Unlike you, I prefer keeping snide comments and off topic posts off the lists, but I feel the need to respond in kind. Now, I suppose, you can "return the favor" and have me removed as well, but perhaps it is just as well. Good luck to you in your cause, though, I truly hope you succeed in what you are trying to accomplish, even if I do disagree with some of your methods. David E. Cann [email protected] ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Muriel M. Davidson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CCC] Why are we doing all this research? Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:27:01 -0400 <snip> Hello Rue:- <snip> However, I never mean to be rude -- not my nature -- except to list administrators who dump me because I mention the word "census". <snip> Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/committee.html http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/post1901census.htm

I am in the D mode. Lynne Gray-Ross Thornloe ON Cda Way up north [email protected] Incoming & outgoing mail scanned by Norton

Muriel, You really should get your facts straight. You were removed from my lists (not "dumped") for repeatedly posting off topic posts to the lists, as was clearly explained to you each of the several times you did it. Now you are flaming as well. I would have thought a journalist would not have been so loose with the facts. Unlike you, I prefer keeping snide comments and off topic posts off the lists, but I feel the need to respond in kind. Now, I suppose, you can "return the favor" and have me removed as well, but perhaps it is just as well. Good luck to you in your cause, though, I truly hope you succeed in what you are trying to accomplish, even if I do disagree with some of your methods. David E. Cann [email protected] ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Muriel M. Davidson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CCC] Why are we doing all this research? Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:27:01 -0400 <snip> Hello Rue:- <snip> However, I never mean to be rude -- not my nature -- except to list administrators who dump me because I mention the word "census". <snip> Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/committee.html http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/post1901census.htm <snip> _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Greetings All. The fourth and fifth sessions of debate in the Senate on Bill S-13 - an Act to amend the Statistics Act took place on 14 and 15 May 2003. The extracted Hansard debates for these sessions have been placed on the Post 1901 Census Project website at the URL following my signature. Follow the link for items pertaining to Bill S-13. Senator Comeau in the first session made very clear his opposition to S-13, and indeed any access to Census records whatsoever. In his relatively brief presentation he made reference to breaking the non-existant "promise" of never-ending confidentiality no less than 23 times. Senator Stratton spoke in the second session. In reading the extract of that session I am unsure whether the Senator supports, or opposes the access we seek. I will have to re-read it to make a determination. Senator Kinsella will be the next speaker on Bill S-13. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts [email protected] Co-chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census en francais http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm Permission to forward without notice is granted.

Good Morning Lynne, Rootsweb requires that we unsubscribe ourselves from any mail lists. Some listowners/administrators do it for us if they find we are having difficulties. The requests to subscribe - un subscribe - from this or any other Rootsweb Mail List - are handled by computers at a site specific to those requests - and not at the general mailing list - where your request comes through as just another message to the list: To unsubscribe from this mail list - in Digest Mode: Address your request to: [email protected] On the Subject Line: type only the word - unsubscribe. In the Body of the Message - type only - unsubscribe. Hope this is of help, Cheers, Stella At 01:07 PM 5/16/03 -0400, lynne ross wrote: >I am in the D mode. >Lynne Gray-Ross >Thornloe ON Cda >Way up north >[email protected] > >Incoming & outgoing mail scanned >by Norton > > >==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== >How to unsubscribe from Digest Mode. Send a message to >[email protected] that contains >(in the Subject line and body of the message) the command >-- unsubscribe -- and no additional text.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rue_Dee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 4:18 AM Subject: Re: [CCC] Why are we doing all this research? Muriel, Thank you so much for sharing such an articulate observation about genealogy. I find most of your messages to be a bit terse, if not downright rude, but this is wonderful! Rue ==================== Hello Rue:- As Gordon often tells me I "write in shorthand" - here is an explanation of why my memos often seem terse. I started in newspaper work at age 16, 62 years ago and like many things, OLD HABITS are hard to break. The printing trade gave way to proofreading, finally women's editor and a columnist of our local paper. A newspaper writer MUST include the gist of the memo in the first two or three paragraphs, the WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHY, and HOW. If paper space is limited, stories are cut from the bottom -- so if you see a newspaper story cut off in the middle of a paragraph -- this is the reason. However, I never mean to be rude -- not my nature -- except to list administrators who dump me because I mention the word "census". I presume you are referring to my reply re "We are the story tellers" -- YES, we must be that -- just in case census records are never released in full. Many feel we should be ashamed our relatives were in "poor houses" -- but these were the equivalent of the day of our present nursing homes -- not because they were "short of cash" -- but needed nursing care. [My grandfather had records of monies paid for his uncle's care at Hillsview Acres, a new name for the former Queens County Poor Farm or County Home, located at Middlefield, Nova Scotia] Guess, either you or the rainy weather made me write in "longhand!" Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/committee.html http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/post1901census.htm --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/03

Hi Marcelle Juanita has already responded to your question and did so quite well. In reading the statement on the Census form you must realize that it reads in contemporary terms. There is nowhere on the forms, or in any legislation anywhere that states that information provided by respondents to Census will remain hidden FOREVER. The statements on the 2001 Census form reflected some changes. With the inclusion of the statement below they have covered themselves no matter which way things go: "Your questionnaire will be retained in accordance with legislative requirements and will be stored securely." Current "legislative requirements", i.e. the Privacy Act and Regulation 6(d) are that the records should be transferred to the National Archives and subsequently be made available to "any person or body for purposes of research". The Senator did not misrepresent anything, but as has been the case for all the bureaucrats and politicians that oppose what we seek, he has only put forth a part of what is applicable in order to further their narrow view of things. Juanita mentioned that Senator Murry supports Bill S-13 and he is on the record as so doing, but only as it is currently worded. In truth, I would suggest that Senator Murray supports S-13 as currently worded only because he considers it the "lesser of two two evils". He has stated his support is gone if the amendments we seek are successful. Happy Hunting. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcelle Comeau" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: [CCC] May 13th debate Hello I've looked at the information posted on Gordon Watt's' web site and in reading the May 13th debate in the Senate find the following quote: "To quote from the long form, on the last page after the person has answered all the questions, there it is, in large letters: "The law protects what you tell us. Your personal census information cannot be given to anyone outside Statistics Canada, not the police, not another government department, not another person. This is your right.''" Is this in fact correct or a misrepresentation of the facts? How do we propose getting around this? Senator Comeau certainly appears adamant in his opposition to the Bill. Marcelle ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== Keep up to date on Post 1901 Census Issues at http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

Hi Fred. Thank you for your messages. You echo the concerns of a great number of people, although possibly not for the same reasons. I agree with your assessment of the "undertaking" and the twenty year extension of restricted "disclosure". These are ridiculous provisions for which there has been no need demonstrated by the government. There is no reason -- neither legal, moral, nor logical -- for them to be included. I do not agree with you however, that this is one of the main objections to the Bill. Although we do not wish to, most of us could live with these if absolutely necessary. The major, over-riding concern of S-13 is Clause 8, the so-called informed consent clause that would be imposed for Census from 2006 on. This clause would destroy any practical use of those Census records for scientific or academic research, and would disappoint a great many people seeking information on us - their ancestors - in the future. Up to this point I have said that if we cannot see an amendment to S-13 that would remove Clause 8, that we could possibly live with an OPT-OUT clause rather than the present OPT-IN. I am rapidly being convinced that any form of Clause 8 is undesirable and that it should be removed entirely. There is an increasing number of people that believe that if Clause 8 remains, we would be better off seeing S-13 defeated. Should that happen what would be the effect? * We would continue our campaign to regain the same unrestricted public access to post 1906 records that we currently have for records up to that time. We very much want to see the end of this issue, but we will continue until we succeed. * By releasing the 1906 records without restriction the government has conceded that the present legislation, i.e the Privacy Act and its Regulations, allows them to do so. * The date of the 1911 Census was 1 June. Without any further legislation in place to prevent doing so, many people will shortly be making ATI requests to Statistics Canada for access to the 1911 Census records. When those requests are refused by Statistics Canada they will then make complaints to the Information Commissioner regarding that refusal. * The Information Commissioner, acting on similar complaints regarding the 1906 Census was prepared to proceed to the Courts on our behalf to see that transfer of the records to the NA and subsequent public access took place. As the same conditions apply to the 1911 and 1916 records as did those for 1906 it is expected that his position would remain the same and he would proceed to the Courts for the release of the 1911 records. It is expected also that a successful action for 1911 would set a precedent for subsequent records to be release on schedule -- 92 years after collection. If you read the information regarding the Committee proceeding and current third reading debate in the Senate on S-13, it is apparent that those that oppose our efforts are paranoid that a Court decision would find in our favour and give us unrestricted access. They are desperate that this issue should not proceed to the Courts. There has been some suggestion that we should accept S-13 as presently worded and see what response there was to any "check-box" option and if necessary seek changes to the legislation at that time. I would suggest that to have any such changes made at a later time would be extremely difficult. Government sources suggest that response to an OPT-IN choice could be as high as 98%. They base that suggestion, at least partly, on response to a question on Income Tax forms regarding informing Elections Canada of current addresses shown on the tax forms. (I stand to be corrected on this.) I strongly disagree that a similar response would apply to an OPT-IN provision on Census forms. For the 2001 Census of Australia there was a check box option for retention and release of information after 99 years. The response saying YES was 53.7%, some 15.X% did not check the box and were considered to be negative responses. Overall, then, the result was that some 46.3% of respondents would not have their records retained and released after 99 years. This was after a major publicity campaign explaining the benefits of having Census records retained for future access. The check box for the Australian Census was for the 2001 Census ONLY. For future Census in Australia Nick Vine-Hall is still leading the battle to see future Censuses retained in their entiretly for access after a period of closure. He has been fighting this battle for more than twenty years. Hopefully he, and we, are close to achieving what we seek. Happy Hunting. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane and Fred Vickerson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 4:30 AM Subject: S13 Hi Gordon, I have a couple of concerns regarding the tactical approach of the census committee. I'm afraid that the strong opposition to bill S13 by the genealogical committee will only play into the hands of those who wish to see access to census records denied for all time. Our course S13 is a bad piece of legislation, but it is typical of the bills proposed or passed by this government. As it stands, there is absolutely no chance of any revisions being made to this bill, no matter how many petitions are sent to MPs. Their are only 2 possibilities: the bill is passed as is , or it is withdrawn by the government. The way I see it, it is better to get the census records released with restrictions than having them sealed. The two main objections, as I understand them, are the undertaking and the post 2001 census records with the check box. 1) The undertaking is a really silly condition and completely unworkable. It is really only a theoretical restriction and won't work in practice. People will "sign" the undertaking and then get on with business. Nobody will ever be prosecuted for breaking this as how can anything be proven . Let's just leave it alone and use it to keep the opponents of the bill happy. 2) I think the check box issue is a battle better left for another day. We can't solve all problems at once and the main goal is to get the census returns released for public viewing. When the political landscape has changed, this issue can be dealt with. We just have to make sure that the records that don't have a check on them are not destroyed and are microfilmed with the rest, so in 90 years our ancestors can make the case that these should be released. I hope you find these comments useful. Best regards, Fred Vickerson Mansonville, Quebec

Thank you so very much for sharing your feelings. You have managed to capture what I feel also but have not been able to put into wording as you have. What you say is true. Those that follow the "Family Tree" and Lineage allows those that don't know nor realize what happened before "us". I have a greater and grander understanding for my roots since starting researching and historical documents and content. It is quite amazing but has made me also realize more about "who I am" and "where I came from". Once again, thank you for sharing your comments, they are worthy of more than simple praise, they hit the nail on the head. Lori-Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: Muriel M. Davidson To: Betty Cc: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:32 PM Subject: Why are we doing all this research? Hello Betty:- I have copied in ONE Senator who lives not too far from me -- who knows, YOU may have given Seator Lorna Milne material for a new speech. Your story is great -- reminds me of many Mi'kMaq people I knew and like others, they excelled in telling stories of their families. WE must become the storytellers -- even my husband, a veteran at Sunnybrook, loves his MEMORY BOARDS -- photos of all the family members, even the dogs and cats. We are doing all this research because we are alive, will be able to pass on to future generations our accomplishments and our downfalls. If one has an elderly family member, preserve his or her voice by capturing it on tape or CD. Should anyone have further suggestions, please pass these along -- let's be prepared for what the non-genealogical ones may do. Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Brampton, ON -- formerly Nova Scotia =================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Betty To: Muriel M. Davidson Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 4:43 PM Subject: Fw: Why are we doing all this research? Hi Muriel: I have a wonderful little story about genealogy. I would like to share it with you, Gordon and the List if possible. Perhaps the Senators would like to read it.(grin) WHY ARE WE DOING ALL THIS RESEARCH? We are the chosen. In each family there is one called to find the ancestors. To put flesh on their bones, and make them live again, to tell the family story and to feel that somehow they know and approve. Doing genealogy is not a cold gathering of facts, but, instead, breathing life into all who have gone before. We are the story tellers of the tripe. All tribes have one. We have been called, as it were, by our genes. Those who have gone before cry out to us. Tell our story. So, we do. Finding them, we find ourselves. How many graves have I stood before and cried? I have lost count. How many times have I told the ancestors, "You have a wonderful family; you would be proud of us." How many times have I walked up to a grave and felt there was love there for me? I cannot say. It goes beyond just documenting facts. It goes to seeing a cemetery about to be lost forever to weeds and indifference and saying, "I can't let this happen". These are bones of my bone and flesh of my flesh. It goes to doing something about it. It goes to pride in what our ancestors were able to accomplish. How they contributed to what we are today. It goes to respecting their hardship and losses, their never giving in or giving up, their resoluteness to go on and build a life for their families. It goes to pride that fathers fought and died to make and keep us a nation. It goes to a deep understanding that they did it for us. With equal pride and love that our mothers struggle to give us birth. Without them we would not exist, and so we love each one, as far back as we can reach. That we might be born who we are. That we might remember them. So we do We are they, and they are the sum of who we are. That we might remember them.. So we do. We are they, and they are the sum of who we are. So, as a scrive called, with love and care, I tell the story of my family. In the next generation, another will answer the call and take my place in the long line of family storytellers. That is why I do my family genealogy, and this is what calls those young and old to step up and restore the memory, and greet those whom we had never know before. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/03

Hello Betty:- I have copied in ONE Senator who lives not too far from me -- who knows, YOU may have given Seator Lorna Milne material for a new speech. Your story is great -- reminds me of many Mi'kMaq people I knew and like others, they excelled in telling stories of their families. WE must become the storytellers -- even my husband, a veteran at Sunnybrook, loves his MEMORY BOARDS -- photos of all the family members, even the dogs and cats. We are doing all this research because we are alive, will be able to pass on to future generations our accomplishments and our downfalls. If one has an elderly family member, preserve his or her voice by capturing it on tape or CD. Should anyone have further suggestions, please pass these along -- let's be prepared for what the non-genealogical ones may do. Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Brampton, ON -- formerly Nova Scotia =================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Betty To: Muriel M. Davidson Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 4:43 PM Subject: Fw: Why are we doing all this research? Hi Muriel: I have a wonderful little story about genealogy. I would like to share it with you, Gordon and the List if possible. Perhaps the Senators would like to read it.(grin) WHY ARE WE DOING ALL THIS RESEARCH? We are the chosen. In each family there is one called to find the ancestors. To put flesh on their bones, and make them live again, to tell the family story and to feel that somehow they know and approve. Doing genealogy is not a cold gathering of facts, but, instead, breathing life into all who have gone before. We are the story tellers of the tripe. All tribes have one. We have been called, as it were, by our genes. Those who have gone before cry out to us. Tell our story. So, we do. Finding them, we find ourselves. How many graves have I stood before and cried? I have lost count. How many times have I told the ancestors, "You have a wonderful family; you would be proud of us." How many times have I walked up to a grave and felt there was love there for me? I cannot say. It goes beyond just documenting facts. It goes to seeing a cemetery about to be lost forever to weeds and indifference and saying, "I can't let this happen". These are bones of my bone and flesh of my flesh. It goes to doing something about it. It goes to pride in what our ancestors were able to accomplish. How they contributed to what we are today. It goes to respecting their hardship and losses, their never giving in or giving up, their resoluteness to go on and build a life for their families. It goes to pride that fathers fought and died to make and keep us a nation. It goes to a deep understanding that they did it for us. With equal pride and love that our mothers struggle to give us birth. Without them we would not exist, and so we love each one, as far back as we can reach. That we might be born who we are. That we might remember them. So we do We are they, and they are the sum of who we are. That we might remember them.. So we do. We are they, and they are the sum of who we are. So, as a scrive called, with love and care, I tell the story of my family. In the next generation, another will answer the call and take my place in the long line of family storytellers. That is why I do my family genealogy, and this is what calls those young and old to step up and restore the memory, and greet those whom we had never know before. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/03

To all:- Very possibly this is NOT the appropriate place to write this, but we all have a PERSONAL duty to do -- regardless of census. 1. Assist with indexing of 1901 and 1906 census - depends on where you reside. [We have these released] 2. Personally, write down and copy [original in safety-deposit box] every scrap of family information you are able to learn, regardless of any unmarried mothers and other bits the government does not want us to know -- for example, was a relative in a "poor farm"? 3. The information you gave on the 2001 census is available - get it! 4. Start saving obits, wedding info, births -- file these in families. There are many other ways to circumvent what some in the Senate are trying to do -- let us not let them win -- WE will be winners, if we start our own files. OUR descendants will know his/her family history -- if we start doing it ourselves -- no law against it! The so-called "tombstone" information is all that is needed for dates, let's gather it before we are not allowed to have data on tombstones! Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee [A believer in Family History -- have written 10 to date] =================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 4:20 PM Subject: [CCC] A Wish for Senators. Thank you Wayne BRAVO WAYNE!!. This is my wish list for the Senators that oppose the Bill once they pass on. 1. That no history being written about them. 2. That no obituary be published. 3. That no death certificate be issued. 4. That their tomstone has on it the words Guess Who! It will be like they never EXISTED, for that is what they want for us, that we never EXISTED! I absoloutly agree, and these have been my sentiments for a long time. It is a sad thing to think that our descendants will not have the pleasure of Family Genealogy. I truly believe that there are many in Govt. who do not wish future generations to know their heritage.....their roots. Betty M --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/03

Many thanks, Chris for letting us know -- I am forwarding your reply to our Canada Census Campaign mail list and committee members -- many readers. I understand the weather is delightful in England at present, the weather report from my granddaughter in university at Bournemouth. The pleasant weather will be helpful towards a great recovery. Again, many thanks, Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Brampton, ON ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grose, Ivan - M.P." <[email protected]> To: "'Muriel M. Davidson '" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: RE: Letter and Get Well Wishes to Ivan E. Grose, M.P. Thank you for your letter. I will be sure Mr. Grose sees it upon his return. Mr. Grose had an angiogram on May 8th and underwent angioplasty at Hammersmith Hospital, London. The procedure went very well and it is not anticipated that he will have to undergo any further surgical procedures. He was released from hospital the next day. The date of his return to Canada is still unknown but Mr. & Mrs. Grose will be remaining in the UK for at least another week. Mr. Grose has asked that we acknowledge and thank everyone for all of the cards, letters, and phone calls which he and his office has received and he is looking forward to resuming his parliamentary duties. Chris --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/03

Hi Patricia, That's exactly what the Senate is " A DICTAORSHIP VIA COMMITTEE" well part of it is anyways. Wayne Cook http://www.waynecook.com (A History Television Approved Site) and your Host for the Simcoe County Genweb page at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml Wasaga Beach, Ontario, Canada 1. Historic Plaques of Ontario 1,044 Plaques online http://www.waynecook.com 2. The Canadian Query Boards at http://www.waynecook.com/bulletin.html

To take away identity is the first step toward dictatorship. Patricia Corney, BHCD Quakertown, PA USA [email protected] Email scanned in and out by Norton 2003 ----- Original Message ----- From: Betty To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 4:20 PM Subject: [CCC] A Wish for Senators. Thank you Wayne BRAVO WAYNE!!. This is my wish list for the Senators that oppose the Bill once they pass on. 1. That no history being written about them. 2. That no obituary be published. 3. That no death certificate be issued. 4. That their tomstone has on it the words Guess Who! It will be like they never EXISTED, for that is what they want for us, they we never EXISTED! I absoloutly agree, and these have been my sentiments for a long time. It is a sad thing to think that our descendants will not have the pleasure of Family Genealogy. I truly believe that there are many in Govt. who do not wish future generations to know their heritage.....their roots. Betty M ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at http://globalgazette.net --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003

Hello Marcelle; Exact quote "THE LAW PROTECTS WHAT YOU TELL US" The confidentiality of your census questionnaire is protected by law. All Statistics Canada employees have taken an oath of secrecy. Your personal information cannot be given to anyone outside Statistics Canada - not the police, not another government department, not another person. This is your right. Your questionnaire will be retained in accordance with legislative requirements and will be stored securely. You can ask to see the information you gave about yourself on your 2001 Census questionnaire after November 2001. To do this write to the Privacy Coordinator, Statistics Canada, 25th Floor, R.H. Coats Building Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0T6" The GUIDE BOOK for the 2001 Census WHY IS THE CENSUS IMPORTANT? page 3 The results of the census are used to make many important decisions-decisions affecting your community, your province or territory, and the entire country. Governments, businesses, associations, and community organizations are among the many thousands of census users. Census results benefit all Canadians and are used: . to determine the number of seats in Parliament . to decide how much money is transferred from the federal government to your province or territory . to plan pensions, health care, housing and employment programs . to determine where services such as hospitals, roads, schools, day-care centres and public transit are needed. WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR QUESTIONNAIRE? on page 3. Census questionnaires will be retained in accordance with legal requirements and stored securely. You can request........ Note: only part of the quote that appears on the census form is on page 3, and it is not till page 22 that this quote appears. Personal or identifiable information is never sold or given to mailing lists. NO ONE, including governments departments, has access to income or other personal information collected in the census. All your answers are kept confidential. This is the law. ARE CENSUS DATA AVAILABLE FREE OF CHARGE? page 3 Statistics Canada makes every effort to put key census indicators and information in the public domain. Standard census products and publications are made available free of charge in depository libraries and Statistics Canada regional offices. In addition, a wide selection of information from the census such as community profiles are available on the Statistics Canada web site at http://www.statscan.ca Custom services and tabulations are offered on a cost-recovery basis to businesses, governments, other organizations and individuals. No identifiable individual information is ever provided in either free or cost-recovery products. DOES STATISTICS CANADA USE CENSUS INFORMATION TO CONDUCT OTHER SURVEYS? page 4 From time to time Statistics Canada may use the census results to select household or individuals to participate in other important survey. This is done only after it can be demonstrated that the census is the most cost efficient and effective means to select the required sample. These uses are strictly for statistical purposes and no one outside Statistics Canada can have access to any identifiable information. .................. Oddly enough 'legislative requirements,' 'legal requirements' and 'this is the law'... Do not inform you that under the Privacy Act the census records are turned over to the National Archives, after 92 yrs., nor does it tell you that the Statistics dept. can not destroy records without the permission of the National Archives. Once the census records are turned over to the authority of the Archives, they are no longer under the authority of the Statistics Dept. I for one do not want to see the Statistics dept. crimping the authority of the National Archives in any way shape or form once records come into their possession. Actually they don't even tell you what they consider 'identifiable information.' As the census has become more and more intrusive over the years, maybe the next one will have questions of physical description, like the colour of your hair, eyes, weight, height etc. Clause 8, opens the door to ask any question they darn well please. It is absolutely amassing how they come up with valid reasons to ask the questions that they do. Question 33 on the long form census Household Activities "Question 33 provides information on how much time people spend on unpaid household activities. When combined with data on paid work, this information will provide a picture of how people living in Canada balance their paid and unpaid work activities. Do not include hours this person spent: working for pay. doing unpaid, volunteer work for a non profit or religious organization, charity, or community work. 33. Last week how many hours did this person spend doing the following activities: a). doing unpaid housework, yard work or home maintenance for member of this household or others? some examples include: preparing meals, washing the car, doing laundry, cutting the grass, shopping, household planning, etc. None...less than 5 hrs...5-14 hrs. 15-29 hrs...30 to 59 hrs...60 hrs. or more b) looking after one or more of this person's own children, or the children of others, without pay? some examples include: bathing or playing with young children, driving children to sports activities or helping them with homework, talking with teens about their problems, etc. None...less than 5 hrs...5-14 hrs...15-29 hrs...30-59 hrs...60 hrs or more. c) providing unpaid care or assistance to one or more seniors. Some examples include: providing personal care to a senior family member, visiting seniors, talking with them on the telephone, helping them with shopping, banking, or with taking medication, etc. None...less than 5 hours...5-9 hrs...10-19 hrs...20 hrs or more." ..................... Senator Comeau is adamant in his opposition to the bill. I also am adamant in my opposition to this bill. In that we agree, but for entirely different reasons. Senator Comeau, is opposed. Senator Lowell Murray, is supportive of the bill. Yet both these men want 'closure.' The CCC supports the bill, BUT they want amendments. They figure that the bill can be improved. If the bill passes in the Senate as presently worded, it will go to the House of Commons and follow the same process that it did in the Senate. If amendments are added, than it goes back to the Senate, and the process starts all over again. It must be remembered that the bill must reflect the original intent of the bill as first introduced. Ask yourself "What is the original intent of Bill S-13?" I do not support this bill, it is seriously flawed. Everyone says it is a 'compromise' to satisfy both sides. I say, "It is compromising Canadians," therefore I can't support it. Do I believe Bill S-13 is better than what we have at present? No I do not. Do I believe the government can come up a better bill? Yes, I do and one that will not compromise the present generations of Canadians or future generations of Canadians. Regards Juanita MacDonald Marcelle Comeau wrote: > Hello > > I've looked at the information posted on Gordon Watt's' web site and in > reading the May 13th debate in the Senate find the following quote: > "To quote from the long form, on the last page after the person has > answered all the questions, there it is, in large letters:

BRAVO WAYNE!!. This is my wish list for the Senators that oppose the Bill once they pass on. 1. That no history being written about them. 2. That no obituary be published. 3. That no death certificate be issued. 4. That their tomstone has on it the words Guess Who! It will be like they never EXISTED, for that is what they want for us, they we never EXISTED! I absoloutly agree, and these have been my sentiments for a long time. It is a sad thing to think that our descendants will not have the pleasure of Family Genealogy. I truly believe that there are many in Govt. who do not wish future generations to know their heritage.....their roots. Betty M

Hi Wayne, Have you read this on MP Murray Calder's website? It might interest those who have yet to read it. Senator Lowell Murray refers to this as the Justice Dept's 'Flip-Flop'. Government legal opinion said historic census should be released http://www.murraycalder.ca/issues/census/chaplin.htm Juanita wcook wrote: > This is my wish list for the Senators that opose the Bill once they pass on. > 1. That no history being written about them. > 2. That no obituary be published. > 3. That no death certificate be issued. > 4. That their tomstone has on it the words Guess Who! > > It will be like they never EXISTED, for that is what they want for us, they > we never EXISTED! > > Wayne Cook

This is my wish list for the Senators that opose the Bill once they pass on. 1. That no history being written about them. 2. That no obituary be published. 3. That no death certificate be issued. 4. That their tomstone has on it the words Guess Who! It will be like they never EXISTED, for that is what they want for us, they we never EXISTED! Wayne Cook http://www.waynecook.com (A History Television Approved Site) and your Host for the Simcoe County Genweb page at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml Wasaga Beach, Ontario, Canada 1. Historic Plaques of Ontario 1,044 Plaques online http://www.waynecook.com 2. The Canadian Query Boards at http://www.waynecook.com/bulletin.html