Eileen and all. I am heading home from Calgary in the morning. I do not know if I will be home tomorrow or Friday. In any case, within a day or two of my return I will post full details on how to submit an Access to Information request for the 1911 Census records. This will be my last post until my return home. Happy Hunting. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [CCC] My two cents worth... Gordon: I would be happy to send my $5.00. Please tell me how I go about requesting access to information for access to the 1911 census? Thank you,Eileen ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== Keep up to date on Post 1901 Census Issues at http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

Hello Muriel: Is it better to send a letter by mail or is it OK to email our letter to the politicians. Thanks,Eileen

Gordon: I would be happy to send my $5.00. Please tell me how I go about requesting access to information for access to the 1911 census? Thank you,Eileen

Mr. Rajotte Thank you for your response to my message to Allan Rock, Minister of Industry, copied to yourself. It is our hope that Canadian Alliance members, rather than simply voting against Bill S-13, will do their part to ensure a free and open debate regarding the Bill and the merit or otherwise of its conditions and restrictions. It is further hoped Alliance members will consider moving amendments to the Bill that would allow unrestricted access to all Historic Census records, on the same basis as those records up to 1906 have been released. It seems unlikely at this time that any such amendments will be forthcoming from the Senate. Thank you again. Gordon A. Watts [email protected] Co-chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rajotte, James - Assistant 1" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 1:02 PM Subject: Re: S-13 May 21st, 2003 Dear Mr. Watts: Thank you for taking the time to inform me of your concerns with Bill S-13. I appreciate knowing your views on this issue and am pleased to be given the opportunity of providing you with our position. The Canadian Alliance supports the preservation of census records and the subsequent transfer of these records to the National Archives for public release. We believe that keeping the records confidential for the historical 92-year period is an adequate length of time, and is generally consistent with the practice in Britain and the United States, where records are kept confidential for 100 and 72 years respectively. The Canadian Alliance will not be supporting S-13. As it currently stands, this bill will allow limited access to "tombstone" census information after 92 years. Full access to census records will only be allowed after 112 years. We believe S-13 further complicates matters by allowing access after 92 years only to designated individuals. The designation process will result in a complicated bureaucracy, added costs and the question of who will police the census. There is also the matter of informed consent, which you have raised. I hope I have been of assistance. Sincerely, James Rajotte, MP Edmonton Southwest -----Original Message----- From: Gordon A. Watts [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: May 4, 2003 1:22 PM To: MP Rock, Allan; [email protected] Subject: Bill S-13 Mr. Rock. I send for your interest information regarding my latest Global Genealogy column relating to Post 1901 Census and in particular Bill S-13 currently being debated in the Senate. The column may be accessed at http://globalgenealogy.com/globalgazette/gazce/gazce93.htm I sincerely hope that you will access and read this column. When the announcement was made 24 October 2002 that the government was preparing legislation to deal with the release of 92-year old Census records we were elated. After five years of campaigning the government was finally acknowledging our concerns -- we thought! When Bill S-13 was introduced in the Senate we were disappointed. Bill S-13 is a disappointment. Granted, the Bill specifies that records of Census, 92 years after collection, will be transferred to the care and control of the the National Archives. It specifies that the purpose of that transfer is to allow examination of those records, for research purposes by genealogists and historians. Having done this, that should have been the end of it. The conditions imposed on access -- the need for committing to an undertaking, added restrictions on release of the 1911 and 1916 records, and the need for "informed consent" for release of information on future Census -- are not desired. Need for such conditions and restrictions has not been demonstrated. Clause 8, in particular, would destroy forever the usefullness, and any possiblity of the use of those records for scientific, demographic or academic research. Additionally, it would prevent many future genealogists seeking information on us -- their ancestors -- from being able to do so. We urge the government to allow requested amendments to Bill S-13 to be moved and debated. We urge the government to allow a full, free debate regarding the merits, or otherwise, of the restrictive conditions imposed by the Bill. We further urge the government to allow a full and free debate on the amendments sought by the people, and to allow a free vote on those amendments. It is our belief that drafters of Bill S-13 have been unduly influenced by the position of one apparently very powerful bureaucrat that had, we believe illegally, withheld records of Census that should have been released in 1998 in accordance with the Privacy Act and Regulation 6(d) attached thereto. In drafting Bill S-13 they have ignored representations by more than 62,000 people who have affixed their signatures to petitions seeking to regain the same, unrestricted access to records of Census after 1901 that has been available for 235 years of records up to that time. They have ignored the untold numbers of letters, email and personal visits to MPs, Senators and other government officials seeking that same unrestricted access. They have ignored the will of the people. In a democracy, such as we are supposed to have in Canada, the purpose of government is to serve the will of people -- not the other way around! We urge the government to allow necessary changes to Bill S-13 so that it truly reflects the will of the people. Respectfully, Gordon A. Watts [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm CC. all Members of Parliament.

Dear Hilary The 92 years is up June 1, 2003. Ideas, moral support and, sometimes financial donations, are all very useful. I guess you won't be driving up for any demonstrations, though. (We are not fund-raising at this precise moment.) Lois Sparling Hilary Henkin wrote: > Dear group, > I recently signed on to this group. Like many others, I live in the > US, but my grandparents met and married in Toronto, and I still have > cousins there. Since my relatives immigrated 1903-1910, I have been > following this struggle with much interest, if not a feeling of > somewhat uselessness (I suspect as a non-Canadian, my opinion wouldn't > carry much weight). > > Ms. Sparling said, > "The Federal Court action was for the release of the 1906 census only > because it was, essentially, a Writ of Mandamus. You cannot use a > Writ of Mandamus until the government official has failed to do his > duty. We cannot commence that sort of action for the release of later > census until the 92 years is up for each." > > If I may ask from ignorance, aren't we well past the 92-year cutoff > for the 1911 census, since it's now 2003? So isn't this "Writ of > Mandamus" a possibilty for that census now? > > I will help any way I can. > > Hilary Henkin > Atlanta, Georgia > > >

Asked my dentist and his assistant if they had ever heard about the 1911 census campaign and they said no. Must return in a few weeks for a filling so I'll show them the census for the block where the office is located. A well known local man lived across the street and his home was demolished about the time the dentist moved there. Nearby is a heritage home that belonged to relatives of a former politician. I was able to pass along the census information to the Restoration Committee after transcribing the district for the 1906 census. One of my genealogy files has names and known family members of all the Canadian Pime Ministers. Sir Charles Tupper belongs in the family tree but the others provide an easy way to keep references for Canadian history. Maybe non-genealogists would care more about the census campaign if they could names for the location of their places of work or residence. More horses than people in my neighborhood. And now back to the transcription of 1906 for an area where one of the current Alberta politicians grew up. -- Elizabeth

Greetings All. My thanks to Wanda for correcting my statement that the headquarters of the OGS was in Ottawa. I accept her correction that the headquarters is, in fact, in Toronto. Thanks to Wanda also for bringing our attention to the yearly Seminar being held in Cornwall, Ontario, this coming weekend. While uncertain as to whether the Seminar is for the main OGS, or Ottawa branch, I hope that someone there will bring up the suggestion for a demonstration in front of the Parliament Buildings in Ottawa. As suggested earlier I believe the best time for this to happen would be on a Wednesday when media are on site for the noon media scrums following the weekly Caucus meetings. Happy Hunting. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Sinclair" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [CCC] Regarding "End Game" Gordon The OGS (The Ontario Genealogical Society) headquarters is not in Ottawa but in Toronto. But they do have an Ottawa Branch. And their yearly Seminar is being held this coming weekend in Cornwall, Ontario. WANDA SINCLAIR Rexdale, Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon A. Watts" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [CCC] Regarding "End Game" > RE: [CCC] Regarding "End Game"Greetings Ken and All. > > I am pleased to see that several listers have been participating in the current discussion regarding what we can do to bring the Census issue and Bill S-13 to the attention of the public, the media and our parliamentarians. I hope that this discussion will continue. With this posting I hope to respond to several messages that have been posted. > > Several of the things suggested are looking forward a number of months and seem to be based on the assumption that Bill S-13 will not be passed. That is not necessarily the case. Although those suggestions could be followed up if in fact S-13 does fail to pass, I think that we need to do something more immediate to bring the need for amendments to S-13 to the forefront. Preferably, it needs to be done before, or during the time S-13 is being discussed in the House of Commons. I come back to my suggesting re: picketing/demonstrating before the Parliament Buildings. > > Ken suggests that such an activity would require many people to keep up this activity for 10 to 20 days. I do not think that it would take that long for a demonstration to attract attention to what we seek. > > The various political parties hold their Caucus meetings on Wednesday mornings. Following those meetings there are always media scrums at which TV and print media reporters interview the major players from the Caucus meetings. I believe these scrums are normally held at the noon lunch break. If we could see a number of people demonstrate for 3 or 4 hours on a Wednesay to cover the period when the media people are arriving before the scrum, and when they are leaving, that might be sufficient to attract some attention. This could be done on 2 or 3 successive Wednesdays. Of course, the greater the number of participants, the more attention it would attract. > > Such a demonstration would require someone local to organize it, and someone knowledgeable of the issue and what we seek to act as a spokesperson. The OGS, being the largest genealogical organization in Ontario and having their headquarters in Ottawa, would be the logical ones to take this on. As some of the OGS leaders subscribe to this list it is my hope that they will take on this challenge. OGS members might encourage them to do so. > > Engaging a professional lobbyist has a couple of drawbacks, not the least of which would be the cost of doing so. We sucessfully, and quickly raised the money for our legal action but there is no certainty that such would be the case to raise the funds to hire a lobbyist. Timing is also a problem here as there is a need to act now, rather than down the road. There are also rules under which professional lobbyists are governed, while we as individuals are not restricted by those rules. > > Steve White remains a subscriber to the CCC list and as such has access to all the posts. He has also corresponded privately with Muriel and myself. It is believed that he has been passing on information to other media people and that this will at some point result in some media activity. There are a couple of other media types that subscribe to the list and at least one of them has produced a very good article about the Census issue. > > Patty suggests making this an election issue, and to some extent this idea has merit, although the MPs have many times been made aware that their decision on which way to go on the Census issue could influence the way people vote in an election. This again, however, is a long range thing and the need is for something immediate. Except in a few instances, we have had no indication that the MPs that do not support our efforts are concerned about our support for their re-election. > > Wayne makes an interesting suggestion about hands across the bridge at Niagra Falls. That is something that would also take some time and organization. I am not so sure, Wayne, about your suggestion regarding a red wig for me. I think I would likely look more like Ronald McDonald than William Lyon MacKenzie <]:-). > > Let us keep the discussion going. I am sure that there are many others that have ideas on what we can do. > > Happy Hunting. > > Gordon ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from Digest Mode. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text.

Hello I just wanted to let you know that I went to the president of the local geno club to ask him to get the club to go to city hall. His answer, According to Senitor Milne, it is all under control and the extra conditions are nothing. We do not have to do anything more. What is she trying to do? Bonnie At 03:56 PM 5/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I suspect that Senator Fraser is telling exactly the truth. > Based upon the arguement set forth regarding Bill S-13, >she supports it as is. > >I have followed the posted material about the debate. The >support for any form of amendment in the Senate has been >tepid, at best. Not one person, especially the Senator >sponsoring the bill, has made any kind of real arguement as >to why it should be amended. It is all generalities, and >placation of the opposition. > >READ the stuff that has been posted. Go and look at the >Hansard Index. Find out what your Senator is saying, if >anything. Read the actual "arguement" and find out what is >actually being said. I suspect that a good many of the >people on this list would get very angry if they read every >word that Senator Milne has actually said about this bill >in the Senate. > >There is virtually no chance at all that this bill will >ever be amended to any significant degree. The government >will not allow any significant amendments. Look at how >this was ramrodded through the Senate. It will be the same >thing in the House. > >Why doesn't someone directly ask either Jeff Paul or >Senator Milne, "Exactly how much of an amendment will the >Government allow, before they withdraw their support for >this bill? Will they allow an "Opt Out" clause on future >censuses? Will they allow an ammendment that would >eliminate the 20 year period of time before full disclosure >of census data is allowed?" > >See if you get an honest answer to those specific >questions. > >They are at the heart of what is wrong with Bill S-13. I >will predict that you will never get an honest and direct >answer to those questions. If you do, you will be told >that no significant changes can be made to any of those >areas. But what I expect you will get are what we call, >"weasel words". Not a direct answer, but a lot of manure >about the legislative process, etc. > >Because I have been so outspoken about this bill, I have >been informed that at least one member of the Government >will no longer support my quest to resume my Canadian >Citizenship. So be it. It was my understanding that >Canada has freedom of speech. It sppears, that some people >in the Government do not really believe in the concept. > >I will not be stilled. Bill S-13 is a very bad bill. It >will restrict all of our access to Canadian Censuses during >our lifetimes. Unfortunately, it will virtually totally >cut our grandchildren and great-grandchildren off from all >Census data from 2006 onward. > > > > > >===== >Lynton (Bill) Stewart >A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who's Canadian Citizenship was >automatically stripped away without any notice, due to the fact that I was >born prior to 1947. My siblings born after that date get to resume their >Canadian Citizenship. I do not have that same right. > >Searching for Moore, McLennan, Peers, Stewart, Thompson in NS;. Black, >Foulds, Johnston and Stewart in MB; Provorse, Wright in ON, and Black, >Foulds & Stewart in SK & BC. > > >==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== >Download Post 1901 Census petitions at > http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ >en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

"Gordon A. Watts" wrote: > RE: [CCC] Regarding "End Game"Greetings Ken and All. > > I am pleased to see that several listers have been participating in the current discussion regarding what we can do to bring the Census issue and Bill S-13 to the attention of the public, the media and our parliamentarians. I hope that this discussion will continue. With this posting I hope to respond to several messages that have been posted. > > Several of the things suggested are looking forward a number of months and seem to be based on the assumption that Bill S-13 will not be passed. That is not necessarily the case. Although those suggestions could be followed up if in fact S-13 does fail to pass, I think that we need to do something more immediate to bring the need for amendments to S-13 to the forefront. Preferably, it needs to be done before, or during the time S-13 is being discussed in the House of Commons. I come back to my suggesting re: picketing/demonstrating before the Parliament Buildings. > > Ken suggests that such an activity would require many people to keep up this activity for 10 to 20 days. I do not think that it would take that long for a demonstration to attract attention to what we seek. Hi Everyone I would like to suggest that 10 to 20 days would be too long a session and most politicians would just say "Oh them again" and dismiss our actions. Back in 1990 I was on a bus from Summerside (5 busses went) to Ottawa to protest the closing of CFB Summerside. I had never protested anything in my life but felt very strongly about the closure and what it would do to our then "Town of Summerside". We arrived on "the hill" and there were speeches made but the most moving and solid feeling came when the Main Leader said "We will now have a 2 minute silence for the death of our Town". It was fantastic, over 2,000 people (many were Union reps for the various Base civilian personnel) standing with heads bowed and not a word spoken. I still get goose bumps remembering it. We didn't stop the closure but we did gain the base property with all its buildings intact and it is a fast pased Aerospace facility at the present time. They repair and overhaul turbine engines, manufacture airplane modules, build and repair wire harnesses, repair and overhaul various small engine parts. We did not stop the closure but we gained more and today we are a CITY and I believe it was because we protested with silence and dignity. Something to think about. Mom always told me "you can get more with Honey than you can with Vinegar". Just my two cents for the morning Cheers Rita in Summerside, PEI

Lois and All The date of the 1911 Census was 1 June. We are approaching that date very quickly. On my return home by Friday I will be be preparing my Access to Information request for access to the 1911 Census. I will date it 1 June 2003 and get it sent to Statistics Canada. Anyone going to join me in making ATI requests? It will cost you $5.00 which, going on past precedent, Statistics Canada is unlikely to refund it when they refuse the request. Following refusal of our requests, the next step will be to submit complaints regarding the refusal to the Information Commissioner. Details to follow on my return home. Happy Hunting Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lois Sparling" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [CCC] My two cents worth... Coming from a federal civil service family, I know that Parliamentary democracy is slow, reeeeealy slooooww. We have not gotten to the elected representatives yet. We are still waiting for the Senate to finish its third reading debate. I am starting to think that we may have the opportunity to commence a Federal Court action for the release of the 1911 census after all. Can someone remind us of the exact date when the 92 years are up? Jeff Paul says there is hope that the House of Commons may make some of the amendments we want. He does not have a crystal ball, but he is in a good position to know these things. I still favour trying to kill the Bill if we do not get the crucial amendments. However, whether it is passed in unacceptable form or dies from whatever causes, there should be some good quality debate in the House. If nothing else, this lays the groundwork for a continuing campaign to have the legislation changed to meet our concerns, as genealogists and as citizens interested in protecting the history of our nation. There are two opposition MPs from Alberta committed to seeing to it that Bill S-13 gets debated when and if it gets to the House of Commons. I'm sure that Senator Milne has someone lined up as well. Take Heart. This is just another battle, another chapter in the saga, not the endgame. Lois Sparling Rick Roberts wrote: >The political experience surrounding the Post 1901 (now Post 1906) Census >Campaign has rocked our faith in the democratic process in Canada. > >The strategy of publicly posting the positions of elected representatives >regarding accessibility of historical census records was designed to >provide a forum for accountability. It seemed like a pretty good idea at the >time. > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at http://globalgazette.net

An excellent suggestion Juanita. Coincidentally, this week happens to have a Sunday in it. This would be a great time for our supporters to call in. How about it people? Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "joseph macdonald" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:29 PM Subject: [CCC] What about Cross Country Check Up? It is right across the country, and they get up to 5,000 people trying to call in. If it is 5 thou. trying to call in, just imagine how many more are listening, 5 times, 10 times that or more. It is a darn good radio talk show. Cross Country Checkup http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/ Canada's only national open-line radio program, broadcast live across Canada every Sunday afternoon on CBC Radio One and now also on the CBC Country Canada TV channel. Each week broadcaster and writer Rex Murphy moderates a lively discussion on an issue of national interest or importance, and invites listeners to call in with their opinions and thoughts. Regards Juanita ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== Download Post 1901 Census petitions at http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

Dear group, I recently signed on to this group. Like many others, I live in the US, but my grandparents met and married in Toronto, and I still have cousins there. Since my relatives immigrated 1903-1910, I have been following this struggle with much interest, if not a feeling of somewhat uselessness (I suspect as a non-Canadian, my opinion wouldn't carry much weight). Ms. Sparling said, "The Federal Court action was for the release of the 1906 census only because it was, essentially, a Writ of Mandamus. You cannot use a Writ of Mandamus until the government official has failed to do his duty. We cannot commence that sort of action for the release of later census until the 92 years is up for each." If I may ask from ignorance, aren't we well past the 92-year cutoff for the 1911 census, since it's now 2003? So isn't this "Writ of Mandamus" a possibilty for that census now? I will help any way I can. Hilary Henkin Atlanta, Georgia

To all -- I did a bit of research and found the following URL http://www.censusindia.net/census2001/history/questions.html The questions asked certainly do not seem to be an infraction of privacy, except possibly No. 16 -- and we all have ancestors who fit into one or more categories. Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] =================================== 1911 CENSUS SCHEDULE 1. Census number painted on the house 2. Serial number of persons enumerated 3. Name 4. Religion (and sect of Christians) 5. Male or Female 6. Married, Unmarried or Widowed 7. Age completed last birthday 8. Caste of Hindu and Jains, tribe or race of those of other religions 9. Occupation or means of subsistence of actual workers : Principal Occupation 10. Occupation or means of subsistence of actual workers : Subsidiary Occupation, if any 11. If dependant, principal occupation or means of subsistence of actual worker on whom dependent 12. District, Province or Country in which born 13. Language ordinarily spoken in the household 14. Literate or Illiterate 15. Whether literate in English 16. If the person be insane or totally blind or suffering from corrosive leprosy or both deaf and dumb from birth, enter as such here TOP --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

To all:- The final part of Third Reading and Voting has been delayed, waiting for return of one Senator. Nobody can anticipate the outcome at the present time -- but rather than yell KILL THE BILL -- we should hope it gets sent to the House of Commons -- where Members of Parliament are anxiously awaiting its arrival. A suggestion is now to concentrate on YOUR Member of Parliament, discuss your thoughts about Bill S-13 and need for amendments. However, should any changes be advocated in the House of Commons, the bill would have to be sent back to the Senate, to gain approval of House of Commons suggested Committee changes. I feel certain - should this happen -- we will gain hope for the future of our census records. Paper seems to gather -- one e-mail, dated 18 Mar 2001 -- from Gordon A. Watts and sent to Doug Joudrey and myself, follows:- HOW DOES A BILL BECOME LAW? All bills normally pass through a series of steps that are similar in both the Senate and the House. * Introduction: The process begins when a bill is introduced. * First Reading: The bill is "read" for the first time without debate and printed. * Second Reading: The principle of the bill is debated. It is then voted on and the bill is sent to a parliamentary committee. * Committee Stage: A committee hears witnesses, examines the bill clause by clause and submits a report with or without amendments. * Report Stage: Additional amendments to the bill may be moved, debated and voted on. * Third Reading: The bill is debated a final time and voted on. * Message: The bill is sent to the other House, where the process starts again from first reading. * Royal Assent: The Governor General or a deputy gives the bill Royal Assent in the Senate. Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Brampton, ON --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

Lois: I am advocating KILLING bill S-13, driving a stake through it's heart so it can never come back to life again, and then filing a new legal action. An action to compel the Government to release the 1911, and ALL FUTURE Census returns after 92 years, without restrictions. Let the government fight this issue out in Court, where it can't control the vote. Debate is wonderful. I love debat. I enjoyed forensics when I was in College. It is a lot of fun. But, unfortunately, it is also like Philosophy, there is little substance there. It's like eating Cotton Candy, sweet, without any nourishment. Debate this bill in Parliament, and watch what happens. Debate will be cut off through Parliamentary rules. The bill will become law, and then it will be too late to take any legal actions. I agree, a plac 'B', 'C', 'D', etc. are important. We are now beyond plan 'B', which was to get reasonable amendments to the bill. Now it is time to move on, to another plan level. Of course that's just my opinion. But, so far, I've called it pretty accurately, even though a LOT of people told me I was wrong. I hope I am wrong this time. But even if I am, does it hurt to try to kill this stupid bill? ===== Lynton (Bill) Stewart A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who's Canadian Citizenship was automatically stripped away without any notice, due to the fact that I was born prior to 1947. My siblings born after that date get to resume their Canadian Citizenship. I do not have that same right. Searching for Moore, McLennan, Peers, Stewart, Thompson in NS;. Black, Foulds, Johnston and Stewart in MB; Provorse, Wright in ON, and Black, Foulds & Stewart in SK & BC.

Tomorrow on ATV's...ALIVE AT FIVE, time 5 p.m. there will an Historical Genealogical journey. They will be talking about people that make a journey (vacation here) in search of their ancestors. I don't know exactly when it will be aired on the program, but it will be sometime during this hour long show. I have a Bell Express Vu dish and they carry it on channel 202 at 5 p.m. AST. For those of across the country that can pick it up, the times would be EST...4 p.m. CST...3 p.m. MST...2 p.m. PST...1 p.m. Thought it might be of interest. Juanita

Lois: Debate is fine. I love to debate. Forensics was one of my favorite subjects in College. Jeff Paul stated very openly today that the government will not allow any substantive amendemtns to Bill S-13. If any were to be passed, the Government will instruct its member to vote the bill down. His wording was very clear (I made him mad, and he answered honestly, instead of the usual weasel words). Now how can you, or anyone else, believe that any significant amendment will be allowed to this bill? There will be no amendments to the 20 year period of restricted access, and no amendments to the "Opt In" clause. Those are the two worst areas of this bill. As to the "Undertaking", how can anyone believe anything that has been "leaked" about it? The government does not want anyone to know what will be in the "Undertaking". I will bet you a hundred dollars to a Cruller that it will be a LOT more restrictive than what we have been led to believe. I have had a member of the Governing party threaten me over this issue. Threaten to harm my chances to regain my Canadian Citizenship, if I did not keep my mouth shut and make no more comments about the issue. The threat was very specific, that comments would be made to the Minister that would block my resumption of Citizenship, permanently. The person making those threats did not know me. I do not capitulate to threats. I'm a stubborn, passionionate Canadian/American. If anything, that threat will just keep me going longer and stronger. I hope to someday resume my Canadian Citizenship. I am currently planning a legal action in the Federal Courts, on the basis that the Government is discriminating against persons born prior to 1947 because of our age. This violates section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Since people in the identical circumstances born after 1947 may resume their citizenship by filling out a form and paying a fee (and proving their previous citizenship of course), it is discrimination based on age to not allow those born before 1947 the same privilege. We will of course be asking that the Government pay all costs in this action. I do have some familiarity with the law. I work as an Expert Witness in the Federal Courts of this Country I work with attornies regularly, as well as Judges, Masters, etc. Both of our systems are based upon the English Common Law, so there are many similarities. I am familiar with a "Writ of Mandamus" as an example. One of our more famous such writs wad "Plessy v Ferguson", a black eye to American Jurisprudence. When I speak of legal action, I am in favor of a new action being taken, to compel the release of the 1911, AND ALL FUTURE CENSUS RETURNS, after 92 years, without restrictions. I say, let the government bring their "Promise" into open court, in full view of everyone. Want to bet that they would lose? Let's kill this horrible bill, and drive a stake through its heart, so it can't arise again. If it slips into law, I am terribly afraid that there will be some very nasty surprises as a result. Thanks for your comments, ===== Lynton (Bill) Stewart A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who's Canadian Citizenship was automatically stripped away without any notice, due to the fact that I was born prior to 1947. My siblings born after that date get to resume their Canadian Citizenship. I do not have that same right. Searching for Moore, McLennan, Peers, Stewart, Thompson in NS;. Black, Foulds, Johnston and Stewart in MB; Provorse, Wright in ON, and Black, Foulds & Stewart in SK & BC.

Lois: Did you read Jeff Paul's answers to the questions I asked? He said that if the two primary areas that we are all concerned about are amended, the government will instruct its members to vote against the bill. That means no real amendments. Lets get this thing killed, permanently. I'm also in favor of Court Action, but to force the Government to grant access to ALL Census returns after 92 years. Without restrictions. Lets see the Government show the "promise" in an open court! It doesn't exist. They are deathly afraid of a Court case, because then they can't control access anymore. ===== Lynton (Bill) Stewart A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who's Canadian Citizenship was automatically stripped away without any notice, due to the fact that I was born prior to 1947. My siblings born after that date get to resume their Canadian Citizenship. I do not have that same right. Searching for Moore, McLennan, Peers, Stewart, Thompson in NS;. Black, Foulds, Johnston and Stewart in MB; Provorse, Wright in ON, and Black, Foulds & Stewart in SK & BC.

To all:- Unless the hostess of the show has changed, the one in charge of the show is sister of Geoff Regan, M.P. Muriel ----- Original Message ----- From: "joseph macdonald" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:09 PM Subject: [CCC] ALIVE AT FIVE: Wed. May 21, 2003 > Tomorrow on ATV's...ALIVE AT FIVE, time 5 p.m. there will an Historical > Genealogical journey. They will be talking about people that make a > journey (vacation here) in search of their ancestors. I don't know > exactly when it will be aired on the program, but it will be sometime > during this hour long show. > > I have a Bell Express Vu dish and they carry it on channel 202 at 5 p.m. > AST. For those of across the country that can pick it up, the times > would be > EST...4 p.m. > CST...3 p.m. > MST...2 p.m. > PST...1 p.m. > > Thought it might be of interest. > Juanita > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

Dear Lynton, The Federal Court action was for the release of the 1906 census only because it was, essentially, a Writ of Mandamus. You cannot use a Writ of Mandamus until the government official has failed to do his duty. We cannot commence that sort of action for the release of later census until the 92 years is up for each. Bill S-13 is not going to get through the House of Commons without debate. If the Bill is delayed long enough by the privacy fanatics in the Senate and then debate in the House of Commons, we can commence another Federal Court action for the release of the 1911 census. We can only do this one census at a time. This is not the only legal angle but it is the one I know well. I would prefer to be an Applicant this time, rather than lead counsel. By the way, I did get costs from the Feds in Beatty et al. versus the Chief Statistician et al. The refund cheques for most of the donors went out on May 1. Although I believe in the integrity of Jeff Paul and Senator Milne, I, for one, have never relied solely on what she believed she could do on our behalf. It would be folly to only have one plan of action. There has always been Plan "B" and there still is. In fact, Plans "C" and "D" seem to be in the development stage. For example, a few of us in Calgary have made sure that Bill S-13 will be debated in the House of Commons. I understand that others have done much the same thing in at least one other part of the country. Finally, there is no such thing as "forever" in law or politics. Lois Sparling Calgary, Alberta Lynton Stewart wrote: >Gordon: > >Do exactly what you are doing, and watch this horrible >bill become law! While you dither, the Government is >ramming this bill through Parliament. They are counting on >the fact that you, Muriel and all those that led this cause >are exhausted. > > > >Senator Milne could withdraw as sponsor if she really did >not believe in this bill. No one can force any Senator or >MP to sponsor a bill they do not support. She isn't >withdrawing her sponsorship, is she? What does that tell >you? > > > > >