Hello Grant:- The party relationship is shown on the census scoreboard. http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census/index6.htm or go to http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/post1901census.htm Click on Members of Parliament on the latter site. You will find a predominant number of Canadian Alliance members in the western provinces -- but check the others -- become acquainted with our Members of Parliament. At the left will be their personal message board. At the right is a handy little messsage box -- you may write to them! Muriel ----- Original Message ----- From: "GRANT BULL" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 3:21 PM Subject: [CCC] ALLIANCE MEMBERS > Can the list provide the names of All ALLIANCE PARTY MP'S?. We would then be > able to target them. > > Grant --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

Greeting All. This afternoon I received an interesting email from Ian Wilson, National Archivist of Canada. He advised me of an announcement by Prime Minister Jean Chrétien regarding the formation of a Canada History Centre. I have placed on the Post 1901 Census Project website, at the URL following my signature, new pages in both English and French that contain the News Release, a Backgrounder, and a speech by the Prime Minister regarding the formation of this Centre. I would urge listers to have a look at these pages as there are a number of interesting comments in them. >From the News Release: "The role of this institution will be to increase accessibility of all Canadians to their history." "The Canada History Centre will focus on those who have contributed to the building of Canada and the flourishing of our democracy." >From the Backgrounder: "The Canada History Centre will promote debate on Canada's history from diverse perspectives. It will focus on our leaders, statesmen and stateswomen and political processes and institutions as well as on grassroots organizations and people from all walks of life who have shaped Canada's distinct model of democracy and governance." >From the speech of the Prime Minister: "This Centre will soon become the site of one of the most important meetings in its history: one between Canadians and their shared past." "Together Canadians have built a nation that is strong, prosperous and free. We must know the builders of our nation to sustain what their mind and hearts, their muscles and their blood, have created." "We must once again strengthen the ties that bind us together and the understanding of Canada that we share. Our past must be near us as we move into the future." "Listen carefully and you can hear echoes in this magnificent building. ......... Echoes of immigrants arriving from Pier 21 in Halifax, some to stay, some to open up the Canadian West." "The Canada History Centre will bring to life the memories of men and women who, through their ideas, their vision and their actions, inscribed their names on the rolls of our history." "The new Canada History Centre will open a door to the great wealth of our history and our heritage........" I suspect that there are those among us that are willing to point out to the Prime Minister that while he and the Canada History Centre seek to promote the history and heritage of the people of Canada, Statistics Canada and the conditions and restrictions of Bill S-13 seek to do just the opposite. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm Permission to forward without notice is granted.

This just announced: ----------------------------------------------------------- New museum highlights Canadian history To cost $90M and be built over five years Monday, May 26, 2003 OTTAWA (CP) -- Prime Minister Jean Chretien announced plans Monday for a major new museum in the country's capital dedicated to political and civic history. The Canadian History Centre, which will cost $90 million over five years, will be housed in the city's former railway station, which has been used as a government conference centre in recent years. "Our political history is a rich one that needs to be told," Chretien said in announcing the project. "The Canada of today was determined by the will of its people and by the vision of the leaders they chose to represent them." He said the centre will make political history more accessible by arranging travelling exhibits, as well as using the Internet. It will draw on the resources of the National Library and the Public Archives of Canada, as well as other museums and collections. The museum will also highlight the important roles that aboriginals, settlers and immigrants played in creating and transforming the country. It is expected the project will cost about $90 million, including $40 million for renovations to the building, which was built between 1909 and 1912. The centre joins the capital's other major museums, which include the Museum of Civilization, the Canadian War Museum, the Canadian Museum of Nature, the Canadian Aviation Museum and the Canadian Science and Technology Museum. © Copyright 2003 The Canadian Press ---------------------------------------------------------- I makes me sick to my stomach. While we, the ordinary people, are working so hard to persuade the politicians to make our history available to us 92 years after it was recorded, they go ahead and spent OUR money to distribute our rich political history. Where is the justice in this country? Ian Holmes

Eileen. The stated purpose of Bill S-13 is to remove some legal ambiguities regarding the transfer of Historic Census records to the National Archives. S-13 does provide for the transfer of Census records to the National Archives 92 years after collection. It states the purpose of that transfer is to allow the examination of those records by genealogists and historians. In addition to this, however, Bill S-13 imposes a number of conditions and restrictions on access to existing records that are not desired, and for which the government has demonstrated no need. By far the worst clause of Bill S-13 is Clause 8 -- the so-called "informed consent" clause. This clause would forever destroy the usefulness of Censuses from 2006 and on for any realistic demographic or academic research, and would disappoint many future genealogists seeking information on us, their ancestors. We must do everything possible to impress on our parliamentarians that Clause 8 is devastating and must be removed. Current legislation (Privacy Act and Regulations) clearly states, in my mind at least, that personal information from Census may be made available to any person or body for purposes of research, 92 years after collection. Unfortunately, for several years the government has not had the intestinal fortitude to direct our Chief Statistician to obey the law. They have allowed themselves to be dictated to by a single, apparently very powerful bureaucrat who took it upon himself to (mis)interpret legislation and improperly withhold the records from public access. The fact that the 1906 Census records were released and immediately made available online and through major libraries this past January demonstrates that the government has conceded that existing legislation allowed them to do so. If the 1911 Census records, reaching the end of the 92 year period of closure on 1 June 2003, are not made available as were the 1906 records it will further demonstrate that the bureaucracy is dictating to the government. I encourage all residents of Canada concerned with accessing the 1911 Census records to submit an Access to Information request to Statistics Canada. As the records would not be released before 1 June 2003, ATI request should not be mailed before that date. To mail them early might give them a technical loophole. Information on making the ATI request is provided on the Post !901 Census Project website. I hope that I have answered your question. Thank you for your interest and support. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 7:29 PM Subject: [CCC] Bill S-13 After reading all the emails on the list, I am embarrassed to say I don't understand what is going on. What is Bill S-13 trying to do? I am under the impression that it is going to restrict access from the any future census, because how can they not publish 1911 census when it is the law to do so after 92 years? Thanks,Eileen ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from Digest Mode. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text.

The Alberta Family Histories Society, the Alberta Genealogy Society and the Jewish Genealogy Society (southern Alberta) are in the middle of sending joint letters to all the MPs. The Canadian Alliance have discussed Bill S-13 in caucus recently. Their point man will be Jason Kenny. He has my phone number if something unexpected comes up. Stephen Harper is my MP. His constituency office is 2 blocks from my house. The letters Muriel is getting back from Alliance MPs are consistent about supporting the amendments we want to Bill S-13. I wish they were clearer about the opt in/opt out nonsense for future censuses, but I think they agree with us on that, too. Lois Sparling Calgary, Alberta GRANT BULL wrote: >Can the list provide the names of All ALLIANCE PARTY MP'S?. We would then be >able to target them. > >Grant > > >==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== >How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to >[email protected] that contains >(in the Subject line and body of the message) the command >-- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > > >

The Canadian Alliance are generally on side. The Progressive Conservative party has a leadership change coming up (and little presence in the House). Has anyone sounded out the Bloc Quebecois? Genealogy is important in the French Canadian community. Even though their ancestors were (generally) here long, long ago, we received donations from two French language genealogy groups for Beatty et al. And the NDP? Lois Sparling Calgary, Alberta Lynton Stewart wrote: >So, the government will NOT enforce discipline on this >vote? > >Well, that's FANTASTICALLY good news. There is a slight >chance then that we can convince enough members to vote for >ammendments. Probably about the same level of chace as >winning the lottery, but a chance. > >As Mr. Paul has said, "it will be difficult". You have to >get the Alliance members to vote for the amendments, AND >vote for the bill, when they are completely opposed to it. >You also have to get enough Liberal members to vote for the >amendments. Then, you have to get it through the Senate >again. > >I have no idea how the other parties feel about this bill. >I would hope that they are willing to consider amending >this bill, and helping to convince enough other M.P.'s to >support it too. > >I sure hope that enough people care about this issue to >make a difference. It will take nothing less than a >massive effort to turn this bill around to something >reasonable. > > >===== >Lynton (Bill) Stewart >A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who is not allowed to resume my Canadian Citizenship, because I was born before 1947. My younger siblings, born after 1947, are allowed to resume their Canadian Citizenship. Exactly the same circumstances, except for when we were born. To quote a Canadian Columnist, if you were born in Canada, or your parents were Canadian, then you are a Canadian". > > >==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== >How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to >[email protected] that contains >(in the Subject line and body of the message) the command >-- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > > >

From << http://directory.google.com/Top/Regional/North_America/Canada/Government/Par liament/House_of_Commons/Canadian_Alliance_Caucus >> The list of Alliance MPs follows: Gordon in Ottawa Breitkreuz, Garry <http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/> - http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Saskatchewan riding of Yorkton-Melville, Deputy Opposition Whip, critic for Agriculture and Agri-Food and Justice (Firearms, Property Rights). Martin, Keith <http://www.keithmartin.org/> - http://www.keithmartin.org/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca and the party's critic for Africa & Latin America and International Finance Institutions. Skelton, Carol <http://www.carolskelton.ca/> - http://www.carolskelton.ca/ Canadian Alliance MP for Saskatoon-Rosetown-Biggar in Sasktachewan, Deputy House Leader and Health Critic. Grey, Deborah <http://www.deborahgrey.com/> - http://www.deborahgrey.com/ MP for the Alberta riding of Edmonton North. Grey was suspended and subsequently expelled from the Canadian Alliance caucus after calling for Stockwell Day's resignation. On April 10, 2002 Grey asked to rejoin the Alliance. Canadian Alliance <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/mp.asp> Members of Parliament - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/mp.asp The members are arranged by province and riding, offering e-mail and contact details. Canadian <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/index.asp> Alliance Caucus - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/index.asp List of all the Alliance Members of Parliament. Lists officers, critics and special assignments. Forseth, Paul <http://www.paulforseth.com/> - http://www.paulforseth.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of New Westminster-Coquitlam-Burnaby and senior critic for Treasury Board. Harris, Dick <http://www.dickharrismp.ca/> - http://www.dickharrismp.ca/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Prince George-Bulkley Valley and deputy critic for Finance. Burton, Andy <http://www.andyburton.ca> - http://www.andyburton.ca Member of Parliament for Skeena Riding in British Columbia, Canada and Natural Resources critic. McNally, Grant <http://www.grantmcnally.com/> - http://www.grantmcnally.com/ MP for the British Columbia riding of Dewdney-Alouette. Left the Canadian Alliance in protest of Stockwell Day's leadership. Announced his desire to rejoin the Alliance on April 10, 2002. Lunney, James <http://www.jameslunneymp.ca/> - http://www.jameslunneymp.ca/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Nanaimo-Alberni. Reid, Scott <http://www.scottreid.com/> - http://www.scottreid.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Ontario riding of Lanark Carleton and senior critic for Intergovernmental Affairs and Direct Democracy. Grewal, Germant <http://www.ggrewal.com/> - http://www.ggrewal.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Surrey Central and critic for Foreign Affairs (Asia & Pacific) and Scrutiny of Regulations (Chair/Regulatory Reform). Reynolds, John <http://www.johnreynoldsonline.com/> - http://www.johnreynoldsonline.com/ Alliance House Leader and MP for the British Columbia riding of West Vancouver-Sunshine Coast. Anders, Rob <http://www.robanders.com/> - http://www.robanders.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Calgary West. Chatters, David <http://www.davidchatters.com/> - http://www.davidchatters.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Athabasca. Solberg, Monte <http://www.montesolberg.com/> - http://www.montesolberg.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Medicine Hat and senior critic for Human Resources Development. Hill, Grant <http://www.granthill.ca/> - http://www.granthill.ca/ Deputy Leader of the Canadian Alliance and MP for the Alberta riding of Macleod. Moore, James <http://www.jamesmoore.org/> - http://www.jamesmoore.org/ Canadian Alliance MP for the BC riding of Port Moody-Coquitlam-Port Coquitlam and senior critic for Transport. Duncan, John <http://www.duncanmp.com/> - http://www.duncanmp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Vancouver Island North and senior critic for International Trade. Hill, Jay <http://www.jayhillmp.com/> - http://www.jayhillmp.com/ MP for the British Columbia riding of Prince George-Peace River. One of eight dissdents suspended and subsequently expelled from the Canadian Alliance Caucus for opposing Stockwell Day's leadership. Asked to rejoin the Alliance on April 10, 2002. Gouk, Jim <http://www.jimgoukmp.com/> - http://www.jimgoukmp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Kootenay-Boundary-Okanagan. Hinton, Betty <http://www.bettyhinton.ca/> - http://www.bettyhinton.ca/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Kamloops, Thompson and Highland Valleys. Fitzpatrick, <http://www.brianfitzpatrickmp.ca/> Brian - http://www.brianfitzpatrickmp.ca/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Saskatchewan riding of Prince Albert. Hilstrom, Howard <http://www.hilstrom.com/> - http://www.hilstrom.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Manitoba riding of Selkirk-Interlake and the CA's senior critic for Agriculture and Agri-Food. Mayfield, Philip <http://www.philipmayfieldmp.com/> - http://www.philipmayfieldmp.com/ Canadian Alliance Member of Parliament for Cariboo Chilcotin, British Columbia and Treasury Board critic. Strahl, Chuck <http://www.chuckstrahl.com/mp/> - http://www.chuckstrahl.com/mp/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Fraser Valley. Kenney, Jason <http://www.jasonkenney.com/> - http://www.jasonkenney.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Calgary Southeast. Schmidt, Werner <http://www.wernerschmidtmp.com/> - http://www.wernerschmidtmp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Kelowna, Caucus Chair and critic for seniors' issues. Sorenson, Kevin <http://www.kevinsorenson.ca/> - http://www.kevinsorenson.ca/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Crowfoot. Goldring, Peter <http://www.petergoldring.com/> - http://www.petergoldring.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Edmonton Centre-East and Housing critic. Ablonczy, Diane <http://www.dianeablonczy.com/> - http://www.dianeablonczy.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Calgary-Nose Hill and senior critic for Citizenship and Immigration. Elley, Reed <http://www.reed-elley.com/> - http://www.reed-elley.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Nanaimo-Cowichan and senior Labour critic. Bailey, Roy <http://www.royhbaileymp.com/> - http://www.royhbaileymp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Saskatchewan riding of Souris-Moose Mountain and senior critic for Veterans Affairs. Rajotte, James <http://www.jamesrajotte.com/> - http://www.jamesrajotte.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Edmonton Southwest. Thompson, Myron <http://www.myronthompson.com/> - http://www.myronthompson.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Wild Rose. Pallister, Brian <http://brianpallister.com/> - http://brianpallister.com/ Canadian Alliance Member of Parliament for Portage-Lisgar and senior critic for Indian Affairs and Northern Development. Mills, Bob <http://www.bobmillsmp.com/> - http://www.bobmillsmp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Red Deer and senior critic for the Envirioment. Anderson, David <http://www.davidanderson.ca/> - http://www.davidanderson.ca/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Saskatchewan riding of Cypress Hills-Grasslands. Day, Stockwell <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/day.asp> - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/day.asp Former leader of the Canadian Alliance, MP for the British Columbia riding of Okanagan-Coquihalla and senior critic for Foreign Affairs. Abbott, Jim <http://www.jimabbottmp.com/> - http://www.jimabbottmp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Kootenay-Columbia and the senior critic for Canadian Heritage and Amateur Sport. Obhrai, Deepak <http://www.deepakobhrai.com/> - http://www.deepakobhrai.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Calgary East and senior critic for International Cooperation. Penson, Charlie <http://www.charliepensonmp.com/> - http://www.charliepensonmp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Peace River and senior critic for Finance. Jaffer, Rahim <http://www.rahimjaffer.com/> - http://www.rahimjaffer.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Edmonton Strathcona. Senior critic for National Revenue and for Europe & Middle East. Ritz, Gerry <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/ritz.asp> - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/ritz.asp Canadian Alliance MP for the Saskatchewan riding of Battlefords-Lloydminster. Hanger, Art <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/hanger.asp> - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/hanger.asp Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Calgary Northeast. Johnston, <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/johnston.asp> Dale - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/johnston.asp Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Wetaskiwin, and party Whip. Stinson, <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/stinson.asp> Darrel - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/stinson.asp Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Okanagan-Shuswap. Vellacott, <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/vellacott.asp> Maurice - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/vellacott.asp Canadian Alliance MP for the Saskatchewan riding of Saskatoon-Wanuskewin and critic for Indian Affairs. White, Randy <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/whiter.asp> - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/whiter.asp Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Langley-Abbotsford, Caucus Vice-Chair and CA critic for the Solicitor-General. Gallant, <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/gallant.asp> Cheryl - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/english/caucus/gallant.asp Canadian Alliance MP for the Ontario riding of Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke and Chief Critic for Canadian Heritage. Benoit, Leon <http://www.leonbenoit.com/> - http://www.leonbenoit.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for Lakeland, Alberta and senior critic for National Defence. Epp, Ken <http://www.kenepp.com/> - http://www.kenepp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Elk Island, the party's Question Period coordinator. Cadman, Chuck <http://www.aebc.com/%7Ecadman/> - http://www.aebc.com/%7Ecadman/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Surrey North and Justice critic. Spencer, Larry <http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/larspe/> - http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/larspe/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Saskatchewan riding of Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre. White, Ted <http://www.tedwhitemp.com/> - http://www.tedwhitemp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of North Vancouver and Direct Democracy critic. Casson, Rick <http://www.rickcasson.com/main.htm> - http://www.rickcasson.com/main.htm Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Lethbridge and CA deputy critic for International Trade. Yelich, Lynne <http://www.lynneyelich.com/> - http://www.lynneyelich.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Saskatchewan riding of Blackstrap. Williams, John <http://www.johnwilliams.ca> - http://www.johnwilliams.ca Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of St. Albert, Chair of the House of Commons Public Finance Committee. Merrifield, Rob <http://www.merrifieldmp.com/> - http://www.merrifieldmp.com/ Canadian Alliance MP for the Alberta riding of Yellowhead. Harper, Stephen <http://www.stephenharper.org/> - http://www.stephenharper.org/ Canadian Alliance MP for Calgary Southwest and leader of the Official Opposition. Cummins, <http://www.canadianalliance.ca/cummins/index.html> John - http://www.canadianalliance.ca/cummins/index.html Canadian Alliance MP for the British Columbia riding of Delta-South Richmond and the senior critic for Fisheries and Oceans. Meredith, Val <http://www.valmeredith.ca/> - http://www.valmeredith.ca/ MP for the British Columbia riding of South Surrey-White Rock-Langley. One of eight MPs expelled from the Canadian Alliance for opposing Stockwell Day's leadership. Announced her desire to rejoin the Alliance on April 10, 2002. -----Original Message----- From: GRANT BULL [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: May 26, 2003 3:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CCC] ALLIANCE MEMBERS Can the list provide the names of All ALLIANCE PARTY MP'S?. We would then be able to target them. Grant ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text.

Can the list provide the names of All ALLIANCE PARTY MP'S?. We would then be able to target them. Grant

Hi Grant. All MPs and their political affiliations are listed on the MP Scoreboards on the Post 1901 Census Project website at http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census. Happy Hunting. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "GRANT BULL" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: [CCC] ALLIANCE MEMBERS Can the list provide the names of All ALLIANCE PARTY MP'S?. We would then be able to target them. Grant

So, the government will NOT enforce discipline on this vote? Well, that's FANTASTICALLY good news. There is a slight chance then that we can convince enough members to vote for ammendments. Probably about the same level of chace as winning the lottery, but a chance. As Mr. Paul has said, "it will be difficult". You have to get the Alliance members to vote for the amendments, AND vote for the bill, when they are completely opposed to it. You also have to get enough Liberal members to vote for the amendments. Then, you have to get it through the Senate again. I have no idea how the other parties feel about this bill. I would hope that they are willing to consider amending this bill, and helping to convince enough other M.P.'s to support it too. I sure hope that enough people care about this issue to make a difference. It will take nothing less than a massive effort to turn this bill around to something reasonable. ===== Lynton (Bill) Stewart A former dual Canadian and U.S. Citizen, who is not allowed to resume my Canadian Citizenship, because I was born before 1947. My younger siblings, born after 1947, are allowed to resume their Canadian Citizenship. Exactly the same circumstances, except for when we were born. To quote a Canadian Columnist, if you were born in Canada, or your parents were Canadian, then you are a Canadian".

Lynton, Muriel and others: Both Muriel and Lynton are correct here to some degree, so I want to clarify. I said that the government will instruct its members to vote against any amendments. There are lots of MPs that don't follow instructions. If enough of them are convinced not to follow instructions, an amendment could pass, but it will be difficult. It will be impossible to convince cabinet ministers and parliamentary secretaries (roughly 60 MPs in total) to not follow instructions. Jeff Paul -----Original Message----- From: Lynton Stewart [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 11:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CCC] what local people think Muriel: If you want to knock me, feel free to do so. But, please do not lie about me, or about my family. 1. My father was born in Canada, of Canadian parents. His family has been in what is now Canada since long before the Europeans arrived. His European ancestors have been in Canada since 1784. He was always a Canadian, and NEVER became a U.S. Citizen. He died a Canadian in 1978. You know that, we have discussed it at length. Why do you want to spread falsehoods? You said about me, and I quote, "he is what I call a rabble rouser, stirring things up, lives in the United States, cross because his parents became American citizens in 1947 -- that is why he lost his Canadian citizenship". Yes, I live in the United States of America, and I'm not the least bit ashamed of that. I was born in the United States of America, and I am not ashamed of that either. As to whether or not I am a rabble rouser, well, I don't consider the people that read the notes on this list rabble. Perhaps you do? I do hope to rouse them up though, because disaster is about to befall the Genealogical community inside, and outside of Canada. You KNOW, and you refuse to acknowledge, that Jeff Paul, Senator Lonra Milne's legislative assistant, has stated that the Government WILL NOT ALLOW any amendment to the following areas: 1. There can be NO amendment to the clause requiring that between 92 and 112 years after a census, all access will be under the terms of the "Undertaking". No one will be allowed to publish anything more than "tombstone" information, on their own family line. They may NOT research other family lines, etc. 2. There will be NO amendment to the "Opt Out" clause of S-13. This is the clause that will require that every individual check off a box on all future censuses, giving their permission for their data to be released 92 years later. This will result in virtually ALL census materials never being released to the public. What part of WILL NOT ALLOW, do you not understand? That is very clear and simple language. The Government will not accept Bill S-13, with any amendments to those sections mentioned. If such amendments are proposed, they will be voted down. If, by a miracle, such an amendment were to pass, then the Government will kill the bill rather than allow it to pass. Mr. Paul stated, very, very clearly that if those areas are amended, the Government will instruct its members to vote against the bill. Do you wish to deny that this is what Mr. Paul has said? Do you have ANY EVIDENCE WHAT SO EVER, that Mr. Paul is not correct? Isn't he in a position to know what will, and will not, be acceptable to the governing party? You don't want to face reality, that it is Bill S-13, or NOTHING. The Government has stated what its position is, and that they are unmoveable. WHY KEEP LYING TO FOLKS AND TELLING THEM THAT THERE IS A REAL POSSIBILITY THAT THEY CAN GET THIS BILL AMENDED? You can maybe get a spirited debate on it. So what? The government can ram this thing through, and from what Jeff Paul has said, that is what they are going to do. I know it is horrible for you that your good friend betrayed you so thoroughly. But don't strike out at others, because they refuse to live in a world of fantasy. Please tell me where I am wrong on what I am saying. Don't call me names, point out where the information I am providing is inaccurate. Maybe I missed something. But what I have read, written by Jeff Paul, does not leave much room for hope. You may get your debate, and show all of Canada that the Liberal Government is locking up valuable and needed information needlessly. You will still have to live with S-13, once the government passes it into law. And unless we all can find a way to kill it, that bill, with its most objectionable parts, will become the law. And over time, to every Genealogist and Family Historian with ancestors in Canada, the name of Lorna Milne will become a curseword. Lynton (Bill) Stewart Proud of both my American and Canadian Ancestry ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at http://globalgazette.net

To all, and especially to Dean Jobb, writer of the subject article! This editorial is only one of those by Dean Jobb, Halifax Herald http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/jobb3.html At present, with the controversy re Bill S-13 and the many negative debates in the Senate, Dean Jobb was very correct -- the above article was written January 12, 2002 and may be found at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/post1901census.htm On January 24, 2003, census of the three prairie provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba for the year 1906 were suddenly released, complete with online search availabilities. Bill S-13 is for 1911 and future years, 92 years after taking of the census, requesting changes to several Acts so data will be unrestricted as in 1901. At present several parts of the Bill would prevent our usual access and usage for genealogical and family research. A great deal of reading material is online at the above site and http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census/index.htm Please study this, then check the scoreboards to see if your Member of Parliament is in agreement with unrestricted release of the 1911 and later census records. Bill S-13 will be going to the House of Commons following the Senate vote. We sincerely hope Mr. Dean Jobb will add another great editorial! Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee 25 Crestview Avenue, Brampton, ON L6W 2R8 [Formerly Liverpool, Sydney and Dartmouth, NS] http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/nscensus.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

Hi, Another flawed bill for Canada. Makes you wonder how many more are out there, as yet uncovered ...but we have one that is before the Senate now Bill S-13 and apparently we have a Government that doesn't want it any other way. Wonder what they are thinking to endorse such a bill? Bill C-18 made them stateless...now we have Bill S-13 with Clause 8, will make so many Canadians ANCESTORLESS...no ancestors...no heritage. Quote from Peter Worthington's column, May 25, 2003, The Toronto Sun. "It seems that a flaw in our Citizenship Act results in law-abiding citizens born in Canada between 1947 and 1977 being deprived of their citizenship and becoming stateless - if their father took the citizenship of another country during that time." Bill C-18's known flaws consist of giving the immigration minister the right to annul citizenship without the right of appeal - something that is applied against ageing Ukrainians who, as teenagers in World War II, were forced to work for the Nazis, and whom the government argues entered Canada by lying about their background. Bill S-13, with 'clause 8' (either opt-in/opt-out) will give the Canadians the right to ANNUL THEIR CHILDREN and THEIR HISTORY. Maybe all those Senators, that want to respect those early Parliamentarians, who supposedly gave us legislation in 1918 that supposedly wanted 'confidentiality forever' (no document for proof) might consider what Sir Wilfrid Laurier, said in 1905. He was one of them. Would seem strange to me that he would endorse such a thing after saying the following. "We do not anticipate, and we do not want, that any individual should forget the land of their origin or their ancestors. Let them look to the past; let them also look to the future; let them look to the land of their ancestors, but let them look to the land of their children." Sir Wilfrid Laurier, 1905 http://www.pch.gc.ca/consultations2001/pubs/toc.htm Regards Juanita MacDonald

Hi, This article by Peter Worthington of Toronto Sun will be of particular interest to some of the members of this list. My sister just called from Toronto to tell me about the article, which she read to me over the phone. I honestly had no idea just how devastating that this issue is to some people, and my heart goes out those who are faced with lost citizenship through no fault of their own, some of these people were born in Canada and are still living in Canada and consider themselves Canadians, though our government apparently tells them different. Why because of a FLAWED BILL that began law. I search the internet and the story can be found at the following url http://www.canoe.com/Columnists/worthington.html May 25, 2003 Canada's 'lost' children They think they're citizens, but they're not -- and many don't even know it By PETER WORTHINGTON -- Toronto Sun I got a phone call from Arizona shortly after writing a column on the need for an appeal process for anyone having citizenship summarily revoked by the minister of immigration. (My 10th article on the subject in five years).............................. ................................ Maybe by reading this article, we won't be so quick to judge, what we do not understand. Who knows there even maybe some list members that don't even know that they aren't Canadian citizens, apparently there are 100s/1000s that don't know. Regards Juanita MacDonald

To all:- I printed off the three pages of Peter Worthington's article, and one paragraph near the end is of extreme importance. In the City of Brampton, we have many former Americans, ones who had been born in Canada, fought in various wars in the name of Canada. One group, in particular, the Korean War Veterans, must hold their own Remembrance Day service at their own monument -- not with the Royal Canadian Legion of Brampton. Reason -- Too many had an American address upon enlistment. Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Hi, This article by Peter Worthington of Toronto Sun will be of particular interest to some of the members of this list. My sister just called from Toronto to tell me about the article, which she read to me over the phone. I honestly had no idea just how devastating that this issue is to some people, and my heart goes out those who are faced with lost citizenship through no fault of their own, some of these people were born in Canada and are still living in Canada and consider themselves Canadians, though our government apparently tells them different. Why because of a FLAWED BILL that became law. I searched the internet and the story can be found at the following url http://www.canoe.com/Columnists/worthington.hml May 25, 2003 Canada's 'lost' children They think they're citizens, but they're not -- and many don't even know it By PETER WORTHINGTON -- Toronto Sun I got a phone call from Arizona shortly after writing a column on the need for an appeal process for anyone having citizenship summarily revoked by the minister of immigration. (My 10th article on the subject in five years).............................. ................................ Maybe by reading this article, we won't be so quick to judge, what we do not understand. Who knows there even maybe some list members that don't even know that they aren't Canadian citizens, apparently there are 100s/1000s that don't know. Regards Juanita MacDonald --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

Hi Mary Lou. It is not access to the records of Census that is available only to residents of Canada. At this moment there is NO access to records after 1906 for anyone -- residents of Canada or otherwise -- and that is what our battle with the bureaucrats is all about. Under the terms of the Access to Information Act only residents of Canada are entitled to make a request for information under the Act - regardless of what government department that request is directed to. In a review of the ATI Act there were recommendations to change that but to my knowledge nothing has yet been changed. When access to post 1906 Census records is finally allowed it is expected that the same terms of access will apply to everyone, regardless of whether a resident of Canada or elsewhere. Thanks for your interest and support. Happy Hunting. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [CCC] Post 1901 Census - Seeking access to 1911 Census records. Hi Gordon.....as I read it the access is only available to residents of Canada?? How does one in the U.S. obtain access? Best wishes....mary lou sun valley, id usa

Gordon, F.Y.I. Martyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Obbard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Cc: "Adams, Peter" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: Bill S-13 > Dear Prime Minister Chretien, > > Recently, Senator Lorna Milne sponsored a bill in the Senate (Bill S-13 'An Act to > amend the Statistics Act') intended to ensure that Canadians have access to census > information taken after 1910 following a suitable delay for release of information. > Bill S-13 received First Reading on February 5, 2003. The genealogical community in > Canada sought to have several amendments made to the Bill, but this effort was > unsuccessful at the committee stage in April 2003. Bill S-13 is currently undergoing > debate on Third Reading in the Senate. > > As a genealogist and family historian, I have serious reservations about the > current bill and I am hopeful that when the Bill is sent to the House of Commons > amendments may still be made. I would like to elaborate on the concerns I have about > Bill S-13 as it is currently written. I do not oppose Bill S-13 as a whole, but do > oppose what I believe to be the unnecessary restrictions the bill places on access to > historic records. > > 1. I recommend removal of Clause 8, the so-called "informed consent" clause for > censuses taken in 2006 or later. If this clause is retained it will jeopardise > forever the usefulness of future census data for historical, scientific, or > demographic research. This is because if citizens do not bother to check the "Opt-in" > box, by default their information will not be available to researchers in the future. > The net result will be a fragmented and incomplete database. If Clause 8 is not > removed, then I advocate that it be changed to make it an "Opt-out" choice rather than > an "Opt-in" choice. In this way, only those who have carefully considered the issue > and specifically object to their information being released after 92 years would have > their information protected from access. > > 2. If Clause 8 is retained, even if changed to an "Opt-out" format, then the census > form should be re-designed so that basic "tombstone" and occupation information is at > the front of the document and by default is "Opt-in". More detailed personal > information, such as requested in the long form of the census, should be in the second > part of the form with a clearly explained "Opt-out" choice. > > 3. I advocate removing all restrictions or conditions for access for at least the > 1911 and 1916 records of census. These censuses were conducted under the same > legislation and instructions to enumerators as the 1906 census. As you know, the 1906 > census was recently released without restrictions of any kind and is accessible > on-line for access by researchers around the world. The success of similar on-line > exercises in Britain and the U.S. should convince the government that they can > actually make money by allowing genealogists access to the information. This can be > accomplished either through a license fee to a commercial company as is done with the > Scottish census and vital records, or through a government site as is done with the > English and Welsh records. > > 4. I advocate removal of the additional 20-year period beyond the 92-year > restriction, where only partial disclosure of information found in census records > (i.e., "tombstone" information) would be allowed, and the need for researchers to > agree to an "undertaking" regarding this partial closure. Statistics Canada did not > demonstrate that there was any need for these additional restrictions. These > additional restrictions will not add to the privacy of respondents to the census > (almost all of whom will be dead 92 years after the census was conducted), and they > do not prevent information from being known as any researcher could uncover the same > information. The additional restrictions are onerous and will only create a costly > bureaucracy required to monitor those who have accessed the information. These > proposed additional restrictions are provocative and particularly mean-spirited. Note > that census records in the United States are fully disclosed after only 70 years, > meaning that the U.S. 1930 census is currently freely available while Canadians > struggle to gain access to the 1911 census data! > > Thank you for taking the time to listen to my views on Bill S-13. I have > considered you to be a champion for ordinary Canadians throughout your political > career. As your long contribution to the political life of Canada comes to an end, I > urge you to ensure that as part of your legacy to Canada, ordinary Canadians now and > in the future will have unrestricted access to the information on their ancestors that > is contained in the census data. > > You or your staff could obtain additional information from Senator Milne, or from > my Member of Parliament, Peter Adams, who supports release of the census data. > Additional information on the issue may be found at: > > http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ > > Sincerely, > > Martyn Obbard > R.R.#1, Peterborough, ON > >

Hi Martyn Thank you for sending a copy of your letter to the Prime Minister. Just a couple of minor points for future reference. You make mention of the possibility of charges being levied for access to Census records such as is the case in Scotland, England and Wales. While that is certainly a possibiltiy, when last I spoke to Ian Wilson (our National Archivist) regarding such a possibility it was his hope that he could continue to provide Canadian Census records online without any charges. I think that we would all support Mr. Wilson in this goal. The period of closure in the United States is 72 years, not as you and many others have stated, 70 years. Other than that, a good letter. Thank you for your support. Happy Hunting. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Obbard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Cc: "Adams, Peter" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: Bill S-13 Dear Prime Minister Chretien, Recently, Senator Lorna Milne sponsored a bill in the Senate (Bill S-13 'An Act to amend the Statistics Act') intended to ensure that Canadians have access to census information taken after 1910 following a suitable delay for release of information. Bill S-13 received First Reading on February 5, 2003. The genealogical community in Canada sought to have several amendments made to the Bill, but this effort was unsuccessful at the committee stage in April 2003. Bill S-13 is currently undergoing debate on Third Reading in the Senate. As a genealogist and family historian, I have serious reservations about the current bill and I am hopeful that when the Bill is sent to the House of Commons amendments may still be made. I would like to elaborate on the concerns I have about Bill S-13 as it is currently written. I do not oppose Bill S-13 as a whole, but do oppose what I believe to be the unnecessary restrictions the bill places on access to historic records. 1. I recommend removal of Clause 8, the so-called "informed consent" clause for censuses taken in 2006 or later. If this clause is retained it will jeopardise forever the usefulness of future census data for historical, scientific, or demographic research. This is because if citizens do not bother to check the "Opt-in" box, by default their information will not be available to researchers in the future. The net result will be a fragmented and incomplete database. If Clause 8 is not removed, then I advocate that it be changed to make it an "Opt-out" choice rather than an "Opt-in" choice. In this way, only those who have carefully considered the issue and specifically object to their information being released after 92 years would have their information protected from access. 2. If Clause 8 is retained, even if changed to an "Opt-out" format, then the census form should be re-designed so that basic "tombstone" and occupation information is at the front of the document and by default is "Opt-in". More detailed personal information, such as requested in the long form of the census, should be in the second part of the form with a clearly explained "Opt-out" choice. 3. I advocate removing all restrictions or conditions for access for at least the 1911 and 1916 records of census. These censuses were conducted under the same legislation and instructions to enumerators as the 1906 census. As you know, the 1906 census was recently released without restrictions of any kind and is accessible on-line for access by researchers around the world. The success of similar on-line exercises in Britain and the U.S. should convince the government that they can actually make money by allowing genealogists access to the information. This can be accomplished either through a license fee to a commercial company as is done with the Scottish census and vital records, or through a government site as is done with the English and Welsh records. 4. I advocate removal of the additional 20-year period beyond the 92-year restriction, where only partial disclosure of information found in census records (i.e., "tombstone" information) would be allowed, and the need for researchers to agree to an "undertaking" regarding this partial closure. Statistics Canada did not demonstrate that there was any need for these additional restrictions. These additional restrictions will not add to the privacy of respondents to the census (almost all of whom will be dead 92 years after the census was conducted), and they do not prevent information from being known as any researcher could uncover the same information. The additional restrictions are onerous and will only create a costly bureaucracy required to monitor those who have accessed the information. These proposed additional restrictions are provocative and particularly mean-spirited. Note that census records in the United States are fully disclosed after only 70 years, meaning that the U.S. 1930 census is currently freely available while Canadians struggle to gain access to the 1911 census data! Thank you for taking the time to listen to my views on Bill S-13. I have considered you to be a champion for ordinary Canadians throughout your political career. As your long contribution to the political life of Canada comes to an end, I urge you to ensure that as part of your legacy to Canada, ordinary Canadians now and in the future will have unrestricted access to the information on their ancestors that is contained in the census data. You or your staff could obtain additional information from Senator Milne, or from my Member of Parliament, Peter Adams, who supports release of the census data. Additional information on the issue may be found at: http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ Sincerely, Martyn Obbard R.R.#1, Peterborough, ON

Greetings All. The date of the National Census of Canada for 1911 was effective the first day of June. The Privacy Act and Regulations attached thereto specify that records of Census may be made available to any person or body for purposes of research, 92 years after collection. Therefore, records of the 1911 National Census of Canada should be made accessible to the public after 1 June 2003. It is believed this is unlikely to happen at this time therefore it is suggested that those interested in accessing these records submit an Access to Information request to Statistics Canada. To find out how to submit your Access to Information request please visit the Post 1901 Census Project website at the URL following my signature. On another subject -- It has been brought to my attention that some people believe because the 1906 Census records have been released unconditionally that the Census issue has been resolved and that no further action on our part is required. This is definitely not the case. The government brought down Bill S-13, presently in third reading debate in the Senate, to deal with the Census issue. In doing so, however, they have listened more to the burueaucrats than to the desires of the people seeking access. S-13 imposes conditions and restrictions on access that have several times been rejected by the people. One clause in particular would require specific authorization at the time of enumeration for records from 2006 and on to be made available 92 years after the Census takes place. This "informed consent" clause would destroy future Census records for any scientific, demographic or academic research, and would cause many future genealogists to find no information in the records on us, their ancestors. A battle has been won, but the war goes on. To get up to date on what is happening follow the link for information on Bill S-13 on the Post 1901 Census project website. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm Permission to forward without notice is granted.

Greetings All. On 12 May 2003 a new MP for Perth - Middlesex, Ontario was elected. Gary Schellenberger, P.C. has been added to the MP Scoreboard. The email address shown for him is a calculated one and may be subject to change. The government website does not yet show an email address for him. There are two by-elections scheduled for 16 June. The Quebec ridings of Temiscamingue and Levis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudiere have been vacant for some time. With these by-elections, the House of Commons will have a full compliment of 301 Members. Happy Hunting. Gordon