Hi Everyone, This idea of doing research on the ancestors of politicians is interesting. I do wonder, though, if it might backfire. Some of these people may feel that their privacy has been invaded and therefore feel even more strongly that the census should not be released. Not everyone loves finding out about their history. We, as genealogists, appreciate the value of what we are doing and how we are contributing to the knowledge of the history of Canada. It's a good idea, Rob, and should be considered. Perhaps someone who knows these politicians personally could give some guidance on this. Regards, Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muriel M. Davidson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [CCC] Converting MPs and Senators to our cause > Hello Dan:- > > In Senator Lorna Milne's speech, she emphasized how much > Canadians would be missing if we did not know the family history > of one long-serving and great politician, Senator Lowell Murray. > > Read through the various speeches, pick out the names of the > various Senators, plus Dr. Ivan P. Fellegi -- I feel these family > histories could be an asset to the proposed new history building. > > Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] > Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee > Brampton, ON > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Walker" <[email protected]> > To: "Muriel M. Davidson" <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: [CCC] Converting MPs and Senators to our cause > > > > I wouldn't mind doing one of them just to show them without the census > what > > they are missing. Include copies of census and other documents for them. > It > > could possibly wake them up. > > > > Dan Walker > > > > "Muriel M. Davidson" wrote: > > > > > Terrific idea, Rob! > > > > > > The LDS Genealogy Centres have excellent records -- and > > > very likely would be willing to assist. This evening, it was > > > announced a new List Administrator was needed, preferably > > > a Canadian and member of the church. > > > > > > Senator Milne has her ancestral charts completed, except for the > > > one or two missing family members. > > > Murray Calder, MP learned how fascinating genealogy could be > > > when his mother showed him it was more interesting than reading > > > farm magazines. > > > There are many more -- who would like to pursue family histories > > > of several of the most negative Senators? > > > > > > Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] > > > Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee > > > Brampton, ON > > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/nscensus.html > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > Hello again, > > > > > > On a more constructive note, and this may be beyond our resources, but > why > > > not convert those Senators and MPs opposed to the release of the census > by > > > FINDING their GRANDPARENTS in the 1901 census on-line, and thereby > > > demonstrating how little an invasion of privacy making censuses > available > > > actually is, and the tremendous emotional rewards that can be reaped by > > > having them available for future generations? > > > > > > Just thinking out loud... > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Rob Fisher > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03 > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > How to unsubscribe from Digest Mode. Send a message to > [email protected] that contains > (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command > -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > >

Hello Nancy:- I have been working on this matter (census) since March, 1999 and know Senator Lorna Milne very well -- a neighbour and friend. There was NO POSITIVE support in the Senate -- and I, for one, am very happy that Bill S-13 is now on its way to the House of Commons. Check to see if YOUR Member of Parliament will agree to fight to get rid of the restrictions -- some are supportive -- but way back in 1999, 2000, etc. -- we need 2003 support of making Bill S-13 clear the House of Commons in UNRESTRICTED form. Discuss matters all you like -- but NOBODY, including myself or others deserve some of the remarks that have been posted for all to read. Shift YOUR thoughts to the House of Commons -- we elected them! Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Brampton, ON http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/post1901census.htm ----- Original Message ----- > On Tue, 27 May 2003 17:44:47 -0400, Dan Walker wrote: > > > > > Could someone send the url for her report I'd like to read it. > > > > Dan Walker This is it. http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census/Sen70.htm Senator Milne stated: "The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology has recommended that this bill be passed without amendment. I urge honourable senators to do exactly that and without delay." They've won. Apparently on this list, we can write kudos for Parliamentarians who agree with our "party line" of this list, but cannot criticize those elected officials who don't. It has been my impression that we are supposed to look up to "that person" as a standard-bearer of the genealogy community. I cannot do that. Nancy --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

The 1906 census was taken in March -- but changed by 1911 to June "because of better weather". Muriel M. Davidson ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.Rodier" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:46 AM Subject: Re: [CCC] Post Census 1906 > A page of the 1901 or 1906 census from the MP's home riding would be much > easier than finding grandparents. Looked in the High River Times online > newspaper images just now and didn't see any mention of the census around > the end of June 1906. > Elizabeth > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

I was in agreement with Bill also and therefore if we can't vent our thoughts here, positive or negative then I see no reason to continue reading all this legal stuff and I therefore am unsubbing. Just too much junk in the box. Rita in PEI David Rowat wrote: > I'm sorry to see that Bill Stewart has been removed from the List. Of > all the arguments expressed by many people on the subject of Bill S-13, > his were the the most coherent and logical, and he was one of the few > people who made any sense. He reminded me of the little boy who had the > temerity to exclaim that the Emperor was not wearing any clothes. > I urge everyone to read again the exact wording of Bill S-13, An Act to > amend the Statistics Act. You will find no mention of "tombstone > information", or short forms or long forms. There is no mention of > opt-in or opt-out checkboxes either. These topics are mentioned in > Senator Milne's presentation of the bill to the Senate, but the actual > words of the bill itself say something different. I can see in the words > of the bill that an additional 20 years are to be added to the 92 years > of waiting before the census data will be released, making a total of > 112 years. Anyone wishing to examine the census in those last 20 years > must first demonstrate that his "historical research project" has some > public and scientific value. The approval of the project will be by > persons to be determined later, and the applicant will be required to > sign an undertaking "in the form prescribed by regulation", whatever > that means. Do not assume anything is in this bill unless it is written > there, and think carefully about what it does say. This bill does > absolutely nothing for genealogy and to call it "flawed" is to be > charitable. > In the words of Lynton Stewart, anyone who supports this bill should be > ashamed. > > David Rowat > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at > http://globalgazette.net

I too am sorry to see Bill Stewart shut down. He is expressing very well what many of us wish to express, and he has the guts to do it. I personally have had it with the double speak coming out of the Senate and all attached relating to the whole census issue. There was no problem until the bureaucrats got their paws into a make work issue, it at the direction of a single-minded bureaucrat. There surely is enough work for the Senate, if they would get to it, to leave issues like the census alone. This has become a cut and dried issue, there is no way that there will be changes in the H of C and Chretien will see to it that the bill is passed as presented. He is a dictator of the first order - that will be his legacy. Freda Stewart Calgary, AB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom G. & Rita Offer" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [CCC] Lynton Stewart > I was in agreement with Bill also and therefore if we can't vent our thoughts here, > positive or negative then I see no reason to continue reading all this legal stuff > and I therefore am unsubbing. Just too much junk in the box. > Rita in PEI > > David Rowat wrote: > > > I'm sorry to see that Bill Stewart has been removed from the List. Of > > all the arguments expressed by many people on the subject of Bill S-13, > > his were the the most coherent and logical, and he was one of the few > > people who made any sense. He reminded me of the little boy who had the > > temerity to exclaim that the Emperor was not wearing any clothes. > > I urge everyone to read again the exact wording of Bill S-13, An Act to > > amend the Statistics Act. You will find no mention of "tombstone > > information", or short forms or long forms. There is no mention of > > opt-in or opt-out checkboxes either. These topics are mentioned in > > Senator Milne's presentation of the bill to the Senate, but the actual > > words of the bill itself say something different. I can see in the words > > of the bill that an additional 20 years are to be added to the 92 years > > of waiting before the census data will be released, making a total of > > 112 years. Anyone wishing to examine the census in those last 20 years > > must first demonstrate that his "historical research project" has some > > public and scientific value. The approval of the project will be by > > persons to be determined later, and the applicant will be required to > > sign an undertaking "in the form prescribed by regulation", whatever > > that means. Do not assume anything is in this bill unless it is written > > there, and think carefully about what it does say. This bill does > > absolutely nothing for genealogy and to call it "flawed" is to be > > charitable. > > In the words of Lynton Stewart, anyone who supports this bill should be > > ashamed. > > > > David Rowat > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > > Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at > > http://globalgazette.net > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at > http://globalgazette.net > >

Jeff Just because something is stated does not mean they can't change their minds later at a whim and deny access to our families. My widowed aunt never had any children. Therefore, if the government changes it mind (or comes up with some mysterious previous promise that no one has a record of - including the government), she could have no one able to do research on her as she has no direct descendants, only co-lateral relations. Beth

Hi Barb - we have much dirty politics too in Canada - many years of it - but a whistle blower only blows their own head off. By the time their personality, ability, heritage etc is chewed into the ground by the blowee and pocket lining buddies, there is not much left except another dirty story and a shredded person added to the unemployment line. It isn't any wonder that most levels of government are frightened to death of having an Ombudsman Officer who is non-political. Freda Stewart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb Marrs" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:02 AM Subject: RE: [CCC] PM's Legacy > Hi Beth > You really think we US taxpayers do not pay for personal political > expenses? ! > I wish you could know all about the dirty, and I mean DIRTY politics in > the state of Idaho. > I used to work for the State of Idaho. If you want to learn how dirty > the government just go work for it. If everyone who worked for the > government would write letters to the editor the shock would be so over > whelming it would create such a back lass the government would come to a > screeching halt. HUM not such a bad idea. > Barbara Boise, Idaho > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth Ostriyznick [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:28 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [CCC] PM's Legacy > Importance: High > > Hi everyone > I have just been catching up on my emails today and after reading much > of what has happened today, it almost makes me glad that as a Canadian > citizen, I am luckily living in the United States where my money can't > be used for this unnecessary building while Health Care for many > including my mother and cousins takes a back seat. > Beth > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lori Lauen [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 5:52 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [CCC] PM's Legacy > > Jean Chretien again wants to spend money that is of no use especially to > the > west. Each of us want to search our own ancestry. We learned the > history > in school! > > Lori > > > >From: "Barb Marrs" <[email protected]> > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: RE: [CCC] PM's Legacy > >Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 08:25:46 -0600 > > > >YES He said it right on POLITICAL HISTORY ! ! ! > > > >I notice he did not mention the settlers of Canada, the ancestors of > the > >1600's who endured untold hard ships. > > > >As a descendant of many of those people this is the ultimate insult. > > > >What do we care about his political escapades? I want to find my > >family! ! > > > >My grandmother left Canada to marry my grandfather in the US, leaving > >behind 9 siblings. I have thousands of cousins, and they have been > >counted. Still there is some unaccounted for. Without the census we > >cannot find where they have moved to. I have a cousin who wrote a > >wonderful book about the ones he spent years locating. What a joy it > >has been to meet this extended family. However, there are gaps. The > >census would help us to find these people. > > > >I grew up thinking of Canada as my second home; home away from home, > >where a person is able to retreat to refresh and renew the tired > spirit. > > > >Civic history - - - does this include knowing where our ancestors came > >from, where they lived, what they did? > > > >This is an outrage. Let Chretien raise donations for his posterity, > but > >do not tax the people for a non essential expense. > > > >The outraged tax payers need to let it be known that this is not > >acceptable use of tax payers' money. > >The government does not have any money. The money is that of its > >citizens. > >Several hundred years ago we rose up in revolt time to do so again. > >Barbara Marrs Idaho USA > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Tom G. & Rita Offer [mailto:[email protected]] > >Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 4:46 AM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: [CCC] PM's Legacy > > > >Sounds as if Jean Chretien wants to build a memorial to himself. This > >money > >would be better used in the Health Care System. We DON'T need another > >museum!!!!!!!! > >Rita > > > >Ian Holmes wrote: > > > > > This just announced: > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > New museum highlights Canadian history > > > To cost $90M and be built over five years > > > > > > Monday, May 26, 2003 > > > OTTAWA (CP) -- Prime Minister Jean Chretien announced plans Monday > for > >a > > > major new museum in the country's capital dedicated to political and > > > civic history. > > > > > > The Canadian History Centre, which will cost $90 million over five > > > years, will be housed in the city's former railway station, which > has > > > been used as a government conference centre in recent years. > > > > > > "Our political history is a rich one that needs to be told," > Chretien > > > said in announcing the project. "The Canada of today was determined > by > > > the will of its people and by the vision of the leaders they chose > to > > > represent them." > > > > > > He said the centre will make political history more accessible by > > > arranging travelling exhibits, as well as using the Internet. > > > > > > It will draw on the resources of the National Library and the Public > > > Archives of Canada, as well as other museums and collections. > > > > > > The museum will also highlight the important roles that aboriginals, > > > settlers and immigrants played in creating and transforming the > >country. > > > > > > It is expected the project will cost about $90 million, including > $40 > > > million for renovations to the building, which was built between > 1909 > > > and 1912. > > > > > > The centre joins the capital's other major museums, which include > the > > > Museum of Civilization, the Canadian War Museum, the Canadian Museum > >of > > > Nature, the Canadian Aviation Museum and the Canadian Science and > > > Technology Museum. > > > C Copyright 2003 The Canadian Press > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > I makes me sick to my stomach. > > > > > > While we, the ordinary people, are working so hard to persuade the > > > politicians to make our history available to us 92 years after it > was > > > recorded, they go ahead and spent OUR money to distribute our rich > > > political history. > > > > > > Where is the justice in this country? > > > > > > Ian Holmes > > > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > > > How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to > > > [email protected] that contains > > > (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command > > > -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > > > > >==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > >How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to > >[email protected] that contains > >(in the Subject line and body of the message) the command > >-- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > > > > >==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > >Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at > > http://globalgazette.net > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > How to unsubscribe from Digest Mode. Send a message to > [email protected] that contains > (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command > -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to > [email protected] that contains > (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command > -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Download Post 1901 Census petitions at > http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ > en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm > >

Roz & Others: When the bill is passed, the section that allows research without 3rd party approval will become 17(4)(a) of the Statistics Act. For those reading along, 17(4)(a) gives explicit approval for genealogical research. The requirement for 3rd party approval is only contained in 17(4)(b) which deals with historical research. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Roz Griston [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 9:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [CCC] Lynton Stewart jeff please cite the exact clause that will allow us to conduct research on the 1911 without 3rd party approval. it may come in handy at a later date. beaucrats listen best when one can counter their double speak with exact information to confirm a "right" to access.. regards roz On Wednesday, May 28, 2003 5:41 AM, Paul, Jeff: SEN [SMTP:[email protected]] wrote: > Hey there gang: > > Just to clear up the misconception once again. Genealogists will NOT > be required to get the approval of anyone before conducting research. > The third party approval only applies to those doing historical > research. If you are searching your own family, or searching for > another person's family on their behalf, no third party approval is > required. That is laid out properly in bill S-13. > > If this bill is passed, the 1911 census will be available on line this > year to all genealogists who accept the undertaking. > > Jeff Paul > Policy Advisor > Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Rowat [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:16 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CCC] Lynton Stewart > > > I'm sorry to see that Bill Stewart has been removed from the List. Of > > all the arguments expressed by many people on the subject of Bill S- > 13, > his were the the most coherent and logical, and he was one of the few > > people who made any sense. He reminded me of the little boy who had > the > temerity to exclaim that the Emperor was not wearing any clothes. > I urge everyone to read again the exact wording of Bill S-13, An Act > to > amend the Statistics Act. You will find no mention of "tombstone > information", or short forms or long forms. There is no mention of > opt-in or opt-out checkboxes either. These topics are mentioned in > Senator Milne's presentation of the bill to the Senate, but the actual > > words of the bill itself say something different. I can see in the > words > of the bill that an additional 20 years are to be added to the 92 > years > of waiting before the census data will be released, making a total of > > 112 years. Anyone wishing to examine the census in those last 20 years > > must first demonstrate that his "historical research project" has some > > public and scientific value. The approval of the project will be by > persons to be determined later, and the applicant will be required to > > sign an undertaking "in the form prescribed by regulation", whatever > that means. Do not assume anything is in this bill unless it is > written > there, and think carefully about what it does say. This bill does > absolutely nothing for genealogy and to call it "flawed" is to be > charitable. > In the words of Lynton Stewart, anyone who supports this bill should > be > ashamed. > > David Rowat > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at > http://globalgazette.net > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Keep up to date on Post 1901 Census Issues at > http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ > en francais http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from Digest Mode. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text.

Roz and all. Read the opening statement of Bill S-13. It states: "(4) The information contained in the returns of any census of population taken between 1910 and 2003 may, starting ninety-two years after the census is taken, be examined by (a) a person wishing to conduct genealogical research on their own behalf or, where authorized by another person, on behalf of that other person, if the person who will conduct the research signs an undertaking in the form prescribed by regulation; or (a) a person wishing to conduct genealogical research on their own behalf or, where authorized by another person, on behalf of that other person, if the person who will conduct the research signs an undertaking in the form prescribed by regulation; or (b) a person wishing to conduct historical research if (i) their research project is approved by a person who is a member of a category of persons prescribed by regulation, and (ii) they sign an undertaking in the form prescribed by regulation." There is nothing there that states that genealogical research requires 3rd party approval. For historical research, yes, but not for genealogical research. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roz Griston" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 6:26 AM Subject: RE: [CCC] Lynton Stewart jeff please cite the exact clause that will allow us to conduct research on the 1911 without 3rd party approval. it may come in handy at a later date. beaucrats listen best when one can counter their double speak with exact information to confirm a "right" to access.. regards roz On Wednesday, May 28, 2003 5:41 AM, Paul, Jeff: SEN [SMTP:[email protected]] wrote: > Hey there gang: > > Just to clear up the misconception once again. Genealogists will NOT > be required to get the approval of anyone before conducting research. > The third party approval only applies to those doing historical > research. If you are searching your own family, or searching for > another person's family on their behalf, no third party approval is > required. That is laid out properly in bill S-13. > > If this bill is passed, the 1911 census will be available on line this > year to all genealogists who accept the undertaking. > > Jeff Paul > Policy Advisor > Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Rowat [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:16 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CCC] Lynton Stewart > > > I'm sorry to see that Bill Stewart has been removed from the List. Of > > all the arguments expressed by many people on the subject of Bill S- > 13, > his were the the most coherent and logical, and he was one of the few > > people who made any sense. He reminded me of the little boy who had > the > temerity to exclaim that the Emperor was not wearing any clothes. > I urge everyone to read again the exact wording of Bill S-13, An Act > to > amend the Statistics Act. You will find no mention of "tombstone > information", or short forms or long forms. There is no mention of > opt-in or opt-out checkboxes either. These topics are mentioned in > Senator Milne's presentation of the bill to the Senate, but the actual > > words of the bill itself say something different. I can see in the > words > of the bill that an additional 20 years are to be added to the 92 > years > of waiting before the census data will be released, making a total of > > 112 years. Anyone wishing to examine the census in those last 20 years > > must first demonstrate that his "historical research project" has some > > public and scientific value. The approval of the project will be by > persons to be determined later, and the applicant will be required to > > sign an undertaking "in the form prescribed by regulation", whatever > that means. Do not assume anything is in this bill unless it is > written > there, and think carefully about what it does say. This bill does > absolutely nothing for genealogy and to call it "flawed" is to be > charitable. > In the words of Lynton Stewart, anyone who supports this bill should > be > ashamed. > > David Rowat > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at > http://globalgazette.net > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Keep up to date on Post 1901 Census Issues at > http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ > en francais http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from Digest Mode. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text.

Rita I think you missed the point. If I am correct you can voice your opinion on this list There is always two sides to every thing BUT to do it at the expense of a third party the way Lynton did I feel that was wrong. There was no need for him to Name names etc. that is "FLAMING" That is why he was removed after he had been warned on more than one occasion about flaming. Gordon am I correct in my assumptions. Carol (tweetybird) Home page:<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~tweetybirdgenealogy/> Visit my home page for "Home Children" information and other "world wide" links plus various passenger lists. Searching : Hart, Haslip, Jackson, Stevens, Little, Budge, Chipman, Welch, Russell, Johns & Glover --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

Politician can do anything they want. Did this "Legacy" go through parliament, the senate, anything. I never heard of it before. Where did it spring from. I liked his choice of words though, sounded just like what we have been saying to get our census released. Who is his speech writer????? Rita "Muriel M. Davidson" wrote: > Hello Freda:- > > I have copied your query to the Canada Census Campaign list -- > somewhere there may be someone willing to answer this > question -- a very good one! > > IF the funds for the "legacy" is taken from US -- there is no way > Chretien's name should be attached -- our tax $$$$ are being > diverted enough already. > > Muriel M. Davidson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Freda" <[email protected]> > To: "Muriel M. Davidson" <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> > Cc: "Freda" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:07 PM > Subject: Re: [QUEBEC] Post 1901 Census - Opening of Canada History Centre > > > I do hope the building that houses this institution will be located on the > > west side of the Ottawa River, and that in no way will Mr. Chretien's name > > be attached. Does this announcement mean that the NAC will no longer have > > first dibs on historical records? > > Freda Stewart > > Calgary, Alberta > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Muriel M. Davidson" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 8:36 AM > > Subject: [QUEBEC] Post 1901 Census - Opening of Canada History Centre > > > > > > > To all:- > > > Will OUR Canadian census records be stored within, without > > > any restrictions? These records form the foundation of other > > > facets of Canadian history. > > > These records and NEW Sea-Kings would be really memorable! > > > Muriel M. Davidson [email protected] > > > Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee > > > 25 Crestview Ave., Brampton, ON L6W 2R8 > > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~downhome/post1901census.htm > > > > > > ======================= > > > > > > Greeting All. > > > > > > This afternoon I received an interesting email from Ian Wilson, > National > > > Archivist of Canada. He advised me of an announcement by Prime > > > Minister Jean Chrétien regarding the formation of a Canada History > Centre. > > > > > > I have placed on the Post 1901 Census Project website, at the URL > > > following my signature, new pages in both English and French that > > > contain the News Release, a Backgrounder, and a speech by the > > > Prime Minister regarding the formation of this Centre. I would urge > > > listers to have a look at these pages as there are a number of > > > interesting comments in them. > > > > > > >From the News Release: > > > > > > "The role of this institution will be to increase accessibility of > > all > > > Canadians to their history." > > > > > > "The Canada History Centre will focus on those who have contributed > > > to the building of Canada and the flourishing of our democracy." > > > > > > >From the Backgrounder: > > > > > > "The Canada History Centre will promote debate on Canada's history > > > from diverse perspectives. It will focus on our leaders, statesmen > > > and stateswomen and political processes and institutions as well > > > as on grassroots organizations and people from all walks of life > > > who have shaped Canada's distinct model of democracy and > > governance." > > > > > > >From the speech of the Prime Minister: > > > > > > "This Centre will soon become the site of one of the most important > > > meetings in its history: one between Canadians and their shared > > > past." > > > > > > "Together Canadians have built a nation that is strong, prosperous > > > and free. We must know the builders of our nation to sustain what > > > their mind and hearts, their muscles and their blood, have > created." > > > > > > "We must once again strengthen the ties that bind us together and > > > the understanding of Canada that we share. Our past must be near > > > us as we move into the future." > > > > > > "Listen carefully and you can hear echoes in this magnificent > > building > > > . ......... Echoes of immigrants arriving from Pier 21 in > Halifax, > > > some > > > to stay, some to open up the Canadian West." > > > > > > "The Canada History Centre will bring to life the memories of men > > > and women who, through their ideas, their vision and their > actions, > > > inscribed their names on the rolls of our history." > > > > > > "The new Canada History Centre will open a door to the great wealth > > > of our history and our heritage........" > > > > > > I suspect that there are those among us that are willing to point out > to > > > the Prime Minister that while he and the Canada History Centre seek to > > > promote the history and heritage of the people of Canada, Statistics > > > Canada and the conditions and restrictions of Bill S-13 seek to do > > > just the opposite. > > > > > > Happy Hunting. > > > > > > Gordon A. Watts [email protected] > > > Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee > > > Port Coquitlam, BC > > > > > > http://globalgenealogy.com/Census > > > en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm > > > > > > Permission to forward without notice is granted. > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03 > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Keep up to date on Post 1901 Census Issues at > http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ > en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

In the hearings on bill S-13, and in the background information that the government released, the government stated that a person's family is defined as anyone related by blood, marriage, or adoption. The goverment has stated clearly that it will take a very broad view of what a family is. Furthermore, the fact of the matter is that no one is going to be acting as the census police on this one. Only a complaint will trigger any action. We all know that there have been no complaints on the use of the historic census records in any western democracy. Jeff Paul Policy Advisor Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne -----Original Message----- From: B. J. Hamilton [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 9:04 AM To: Paul, Jeff: SEN; [email protected] Subject: Genealogist access to records The statement below about genealogists sound open-ended until one asks how the determination will be made as to just what constitutes one's own family and who will be checking the validity of personal family research status. As we all know, families can become quite extended as the number of generations increase. This whole thing begins to sound like the precursor of closed control with fees for access on a per name basis. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:40 AM Subject: RE: [CCC] Lynton Stewart > Hey there gang: > > Just to clear up the misconception once again. Genealogists will NOT be required to get the approval of anyone before conducting research. The third party approval only applies to those doing historical research. If you are searching your own family, or searching for another person's family on their behalf, no third party approval is required. That is laid out properly in bill S-13. > > If this bill is passed, the 1911 census will be available on line this year to all genealogists who accept the undertaking. > > Jeff Paul > Policy Advisor > Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne > >

The statement below about genealogists sound open-ended until one asks how the determination will be made as to just what constitutes one's own family and who will be checking the validity of personal family research status. As we all know, families can become quite extended as the number of generations increase. This whole thing begins to sound like the precursor of closed control with fees for access on a per name basis. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:40 AM Subject: RE: [CCC] Lynton Stewart > Hey there gang: > > Just to clear up the misconception once again. Genealogists will NOT be required to get the approval of anyone before conducting research. The third party approval only applies to those doing historical research. If you are searching your own family, or searching for another person's family on their behalf, no third party approval is required. That is laid out properly in bill S-13. > > If this bill is passed, the 1911 census will be available on line this year to all genealogists who accept the undertaking. > > Jeff Paul > Policy Advisor > Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne > >

Hey there gang: Just to clear up the misconception once again. Genealogists will NOT be required to get the approval of anyone before conducting research. The third party approval only applies to those doing historical research. If you are searching your own family, or searching for another person's family on their behalf, no third party approval is required. That is laid out properly in bill S-13. If this bill is passed, the 1911 census will be available on line this year to all genealogists who accept the undertaking. Jeff Paul Policy Advisor Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne -----Original Message----- From: David Rowat [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:16 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [CCC] Lynton Stewart I'm sorry to see that Bill Stewart has been removed from the List. Of all the arguments expressed by many people on the subject of Bill S-13, his were the the most coherent and logical, and he was one of the few people who made any sense. He reminded me of the little boy who had the temerity to exclaim that the Emperor was not wearing any clothes. I urge everyone to read again the exact wording of Bill S-13, An Act to amend the Statistics Act. You will find no mention of "tombstone information", or short forms or long forms. There is no mention of opt-in or opt-out checkboxes either. These topics are mentioned in Senator Milne's presentation of the bill to the Senate, but the actual words of the bill itself say something different. I can see in the words of the bill that an additional 20 years are to be added to the 92 years of waiting before the census data will be released, making a total of 112 years. Anyone wishing to examine the census in those last 20 years must first demonstrate that his "historical research project" has some public and scientific value. The approval of the project will be by persons to be determined later, and the applicant will be required to sign an undertaking "in the form prescribed by regulation", whatever that means. Do not assume anything is in this bill unless it is written there, and think carefully about what it does say. This bill does absolutely nothing for genealogy and to call it "flawed" is to be charitable. In the words of Lynton Stewart, anyone who supports this bill should be ashamed. David Rowat ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at http://globalgazette.net

Hi Beth You really think we US taxpayers do not pay for personal political expenses? ! I wish you could know all about the dirty, and I mean DIRTY politics in the state of Idaho. I used to work for the State of Idaho. If you want to learn how dirty the government just go work for it. If everyone who worked for the government would write letters to the editor the shock would be so over whelming it would create such a back lass the government would come to a screeching halt. HUM not such a bad idea. Barbara Boise, Idaho -----Original Message----- From: Beth Ostriyznick [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [CCC] PM's Legacy Importance: High Hi everyone I have just been catching up on my emails today and after reading much of what has happened today, it almost makes me glad that as a Canadian citizen, I am luckily living in the United States where my money can't be used for this unnecessary building while Health Care for many including my mother and cousins takes a back seat. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Lori Lauen [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 5:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [CCC] PM's Legacy Jean Chretien again wants to spend money that is of no use especially to the west. Each of us want to search our own ancestry. We learned the history in school! Lori >From: "Barb Marrs" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: [CCC] PM's Legacy >Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 08:25:46 -0600 > >YES He said it right on POLITICAL HISTORY ! ! ! > >I notice he did not mention the settlers of Canada, the ancestors of the >1600's who endured untold hard ships. > >As a descendant of many of those people this is the ultimate insult. > >What do we care about his political escapades? I want to find my >family! ! > >My grandmother left Canada to marry my grandfather in the US, leaving >behind 9 siblings. I have thousands of cousins, and they have been >counted. Still there is some unaccounted for. Without the census we >cannot find where they have moved to. I have a cousin who wrote a >wonderful book about the ones he spent years locating. What a joy it >has been to meet this extended family. However, there are gaps. The >census would help us to find these people. > >I grew up thinking of Canada as my second home; home away from home, >where a person is able to retreat to refresh and renew the tired spirit. > >Civic history - - - does this include knowing where our ancestors came >from, where they lived, what they did? > >This is an outrage. Let Chretien raise donations for his posterity, but >do not tax the people for a non essential expense. > >The outraged tax payers need to let it be known that this is not >acceptable use of tax payers' money. >The government does not have any money. The money is that of its >citizens. >Several hundred years ago we rose up in revolt time to do so again. >Barbara Marrs Idaho USA > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tom G. & Rita Offer [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 4:46 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [CCC] PM's Legacy > >Sounds as if Jean Chretien wants to build a memorial to himself. This >money >would be better used in the Health Care System. We DON'T need another >museum!!!!!!!! >Rita > >Ian Holmes wrote: > > > This just announced: > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > New museum highlights Canadian history > > To cost $90M and be built over five years > > > > Monday, May 26, 2003 > > OTTAWA (CP) -- Prime Minister Jean Chretien announced plans Monday for >a > > major new museum in the country's capital dedicated to political and > > civic history. > > > > The Canadian History Centre, which will cost $90 million over five > > years, will be housed in the city's former railway station, which has > > been used as a government conference centre in recent years. > > > > "Our political history is a rich one that needs to be told," Chretien > > said in announcing the project. "The Canada of today was determined by > > the will of its people and by the vision of the leaders they chose to > > represent them." > > > > He said the centre will make political history more accessible by > > arranging travelling exhibits, as well as using the Internet. > > > > It will draw on the resources of the National Library and the Public > > Archives of Canada, as well as other museums and collections. > > > > The museum will also highlight the important roles that aboriginals, > > settlers and immigrants played in creating and transforming the >country. > > > > It is expected the project will cost about $90 million, including $40 > > million for renovations to the building, which was built between 1909 > > and 1912. > > > > The centre joins the capital's other major museums, which include the > > Museum of Civilization, the Canadian War Museum, the Canadian Museum >of > > Nature, the Canadian Aviation Museum and the Canadian Science and > > Technology Museum. > > C Copyright 2003 The Canadian Press > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I makes me sick to my stomach. > > > > While we, the ordinary people, are working so hard to persuade the > > politicians to make our history available to us 92 years after it was > > recorded, they go ahead and spent OUR money to distribute our rich > > political history. > > > > Where is the justice in this country? > > > > Ian Holmes > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > > How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to > > [email protected] that contains > > (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command > > -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > >==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== >How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to >[email protected] that contains >(in the Subject line and body of the message) the command >-- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. > > >==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== >Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at > http://globalgazette.net > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from Digest Mode. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text. ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe from Mail Mode. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the Subject line and body of the message) the command -- unsubscribe -- and no additional text.

jeff please cite the exact clause that will allow us to conduct research on the 1911 without 3rd party approval. it may come in handy at a later date. beaucrats listen best when one can counter their double speak with exact information to confirm a "right" to access.. regards roz On Wednesday, May 28, 2003 5:41 AM, Paul, Jeff: SEN [SMTP:[email protected]] wrote: > Hey there gang: > > Just to clear up the misconception once again. Genealogists will NOT > be required to get the approval of anyone before conducting research. > The third party approval only applies to those doing historical > research. If you are searching your own family, or searching for > another person's family on their behalf, no third party approval is > required. That is laid out properly in bill S-13. > > If this bill is passed, the 1911 census will be available on line this > year to all genealogists who accept the undertaking. > > Jeff Paul > Policy Advisor > Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Rowat [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:16 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CCC] Lynton Stewart > > > I'm sorry to see that Bill Stewart has been removed from the List. Of > > all the arguments expressed by many people on the subject of Bill S- > 13, > his were the the most coherent and logical, and he was one of the few > > people who made any sense. He reminded me of the little boy who had > the > temerity to exclaim that the Emperor was not wearing any clothes. > I urge everyone to read again the exact wording of Bill S-13, An Act > to > amend the Statistics Act. You will find no mention of "tombstone > information", or short forms or long forms. There is no mention of > opt-in or opt-out checkboxes either. These topics are mentioned in > Senator Milne's presentation of the bill to the Senate, but the actual > > words of the bill itself say something different. I can see in the > words > of the bill that an additional 20 years are to be added to the 92 > years > of waiting before the census data will be released, making a total of > > 112 years. Anyone wishing to examine the census in those last 20 years > > must first demonstrate that his "historical research project" has some > > public and scientific value. The approval of the project will be by > persons to be determined later, and the applicant will be required to > > sign an undertaking "in the form prescribed by regulation", whatever > that means. Do not assume anything is in this bill unless it is > written > there, and think carefully about what it does say. This bill does > absolutely nothing for genealogy and to call it "flawed" is to be > charitable. > In the words of Lynton Stewart, anyone who supports this bill should > be > ashamed. > > David Rowat > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Read Gordon A. Watts' column on Post 1901 Census issues at > http://globalgazette.net > > > > ==== CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN Mailing List ==== > Keep up to date on Post 1901 Census Issues at > http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/ > en francais http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm >

To all Members of Parliament and to the Senators. Deep down in Murray Calder's County.... Take a good look at yourself in the mirror, are your parent's child or your grandparents child. Who do you look like, where did they live. What did they do. 93 or years later, when all that is left is headstone after you get finished with the way your going, is all that we will ever know of the folks. My family is Pre-Confederation time and so are many of the collateral lines. Some them were loyalist and some of them fought the British during the American Revolution. But they came to Canada.... somehow I don't think my grandfather or gr. grandfather will mind that I looked them up on the census and found them. I don't think I would hear the earth groan, you broke your promise. Your broke our trust when you decided that the Canadian Superior Court's decision wasn't good enough. If you are lucky to do your family tree, there will be many roadblocks and stumbling points. How on earth's name did they get out to British Columbia or where in Ontario did they go.... Why do we need such an archaic system. what happened to Freedom of Information! I'm sorry I forgot that cost us more than any other nation on this globe. Freedom is not letting M.P.s say what their constituents really want. Freedom is say yes sir, no sir to the Prime Minister. When will Canada grow up.... been here a long time and seems each time around it gets a little worse. Do you need a blood sample so I can access the 1911 Census, a hair follicle per chance. After all you are questioning my right to be what my birth certificates said I am. Kathy [email protected] --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/03

Hello, I know that I've been on this list for a while, but I am shocked and a bit confused at what is going on. I have been busy lately with other things in my life, and havent had the time to concentrate on the subject at hand as much as I would like. So can I ask Gordon or Muriel to please explain to me, either on the list or privately where we are right now, what the problems are with the gov't and also what the problems are within this group, opinions, differing views and so on. Also I would ask anyone else to please let me know, as I would be very interested. Thank you Nathaniel Smith Halifax, Nova Scotia

I came across this while looking for information on the Canada History Centre. My local paper printed didn't think the Canada History Centre rated any space, so I had to find the information on line. I thought seeing how Senate Reform has been mentioned on the list more than once or twice while discussing the Senators and our dealings with them. I am sure that more than a few will be interested as apparently some politicians are trying to revive this debate. Juanita This is why we need Senate Reform http://www.nationalpost.com/search/site/story.asp?id=3671D2D4-4D32-4A5F-AF81-7D79B59AE5D2 Rather than questioning Mr. Chrétien's ethics, as his opponents undoubtedly will, Canadians would do better to look seriously at the real problem: an outmoded and undemocratic Upper House. Instead of offsetting the regional imbalances reflected in the population-weighted House of Commons, minimizing the centralization of power in the Prime Minister's Office or consistently offering a "sober second thought" on controversial legislation, the crimson chamber serves mostly as a dumping ground for political hacks and other elites owed favours by the party in power. At this point, it matters little that Mr. Chrétien will replace one appointed partisan with another; regardless of who sits in it, the Senate will command little respect until major systemic reforms are undertaken.

Hi Lois, I need a question answered. Doesn't Bill C-36 conflict with Bill S-13, somehow? Which bill will have the most authority Bill C-36 (Library and Archives or S-13 Statistics Act)? I know its two questions, but this almost seems like a power struggle. If it is I am rooting for the Good Guys. Juanita Lois Sparling wrote: > Dear List > > This is an example of flawed legislation being fixed after the fact by > the lobbying of our normally very quiet friends, the librarians and > archivists of this nation. This is the second round of amendments to > meet their concerns following a massive over haul of Copyright law a few > years ago. > > Lois Sparling > > joseph macdonald wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >Thought maybe this would be of interest. I've only did a fast reading of > >it. I didn't notice any reference to the Statistics Act, but there sure > >are a lot of Acts that have to be amended. It had it's second reading > >today, and now has gone to the Standing Committee for study. > > > >http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/2/parlbus/chambus/house/bills/government/C-36/C-36_1/90219bE.html > > > >C-36 >