Thank you to both Deb and Pam for your helpful replies - although I do still remain "open" for a more specific definition of a (just) Agent because of some lingering issues about someone using such a generic description of their business when others are being more definitive about what they were an agent for. I must say that a "Land Agent" or a "Real Estate Agent" are high on my long list of suspects for this term but I still don't know enough about how property sales and transfers were effected in earlier times to make that decission. Now I might be able to shed some light on the Artisan issue. Going way back, almost to medieval times, trades which required some learning of physical skills, techniques, and dexterity developed supervisory bodies which (mostly) were called Guilds. Amongst other activities these guilds conferred a hierarchy of titles on their members in recognition of their level of skill, experience, and success. These names applied to these skill levels varied from one Guild to another but they still crop up from time to time. In fact the Honourable Guild of Gold and Silver Smiths (I think that is right) still exists and still governs what a member of the Guild may call himself as a worker in precocious metals. I don't think the term Artisan actually exists in the goldsmith guild but skill levels that were used in many guilds - from the bottom up (I think) were: Apprentice, (a name specific to the guild - like Mechanic, Baker or Blacksmith), Journeyman, and Master. A Master "knew it all" and was now improving his skills on his own and "making a name for himself." The rather non specific level between Apprentice and Journeyman was sometimes called an Artisan or an Artificer depending on the trade traditions. That is why it's fashionable these days to be an Artisan Baker although I don't think there is any sort of active guild of bakers regulating the trade any more. The Guilds system pretty much fell apart as a result of the Great War - or perhaps it would be more accurate to say "about the time of the Great War" - because it was as much a result of changing life styles, social conditions and population mobility, all of which could be looked on as a result of the Great War or of the Industrial revolution, which again could be …… etc., etc. Anyway, the means of training new recruits into "the trades" changed quite radically but the old names tended to hang on even after their official "status" was no longer supported. So, in my mind anyway, an Artisan has received all the basic instruction needed to work at his trade but still needs the oversight of a more experienced workman who can judge the quality of his produce and help him to improve and refine his technique. Now let me do the "Your Milage may vary" bit. All the above was based on Britain as it shifted from a mainly rural to a mainly industrial based economy over a period of 500 to 600 years, or so. If we look at Upper Canada we are only talking about the last 300 odd years during which most of this same change has taken place so the whole industrial development process seems to be equally foreshortened and minimized. The Mechanics Institute is as close as I have noticed so far to a formal trades Guild in Canada (excepting the exotics such as the Gold and Silver Smiths etc.) So I'm not too sure exactly how the British "tradition"(?) of grades of workmanship was / is applied here but I think bearing the above background in mind may give you a baseline against which to judge these terms as used (and misused) here. I rather wonder if your issue with the Artisan might not be similar to mine with the Agent, and may arise from the manner in which data was gathered for Directories, Census and the like. A "man" was sent into a district and told to get specific information about all the householders / tradesman / everybody, which he did by going door to door and recording the answers he received. (Lets keep in mind he was paid by the number of records he collected and he probably didn't want to get get "hung up" at any particular house.) So his list of questions would start with Name? Address? etc. and at some point would come to "What are you" (meaning what is your trade or profession) but could easily be misinterpreted as what do you call yourself at work? In this case - and in a hurry - then "an Artisan" or "an Agent" is a reasonable response and the guy gathering the data just wants to get going so he isn't about to argue. And now here we are, 100 years later, trying to read dark ! meaning into an off-the-cuff answer given by someone annoyed to be standing at his front door when his main priority was to get back to his supper! :) Sorry! That was way longer than it was supposed to be. Perhaps I can win back a little friendship on the list by wishing all of you a Great New Year. :) Malcolm Archive CD Books Canada Inc. President: Malcolm Moody PO Box 11 Manotick Ontario, K4M 1A2 Canada. (613) 692-2667 WEB SITE: http://www.ArchiveCDBooks.ca FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/ACDB-Can-on-Facebook On 30 Dec, 2010, at 10:28 PM, can-ont-simcoe-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 06:52:09 -0500 > From: Pam Tessier <pamtessier@sympatico.ca> > Subject: [CAN-ONT-SIMCOE] Agents and artisans > To: Simcoe Mailing List <can-ont-simcoe@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP3256005EDE6FAB304DDAE5A2030@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Malcolm, > > I don't have the experience of transcribing the documents the documents > that Deb does - I just read them later- but almost everytime I have > found the term "agent" listed as an occupation for a fellow, further > investigation has revealed he in fact had been selling something on > behalf of someone else, usually a commercial business of some kind. In > small towns, like Penetang in the late 1800s and early 1900s, a > tradesman usually sold goods from his business location but also acted > as an agent for various other businesses based in far away places - like > Toronto. Space generally limited the amount of goods he could display > and no doubt his finances played a part in how much inventory he could > carry. As an example, if he was a hardware store proprietor he carried > the usual small hardware items required by farmers and homeowners but if > someone required an item he did not have in stock, he could order it and > have it shipped in from another company. Therefore he acted as an agent > or a salesman for this company. Just as it is today, many had to have > more than one occupation to keep bread on the table so the local > furniture maker also crafted caskets and by extension became an > undertaker. He could well have been an agent for an insurance company. > Certainly this would be one way to be guaranteed payment! > > What I find most interesting in Deb's latest posting is the term > "artisan" and how often it was listed as an occupation. Artisan of what? > The definition of an artisan is "a skilled manual worker or craftsman" > and nowadays refers to anyone who has the talent to create a unique item > - potters, carvers etc. Usually a blacksmith is listed as such and the > same holds true for many other occupations but in the early days of the > last century just what did these artisans create or make? It certainly > would give us a better insight into their lives if they had been more > specific! > > Pam

Great explanation Malcolm - but in the case of the occupations I'm listing lately, they weren't recorded by a census worker or enumerator, but rather by Mr. Hewson in his conveyancing reports. For example: May 13 1921 Prepare discharge – Robert ELLIOTT, Penetang, esquire to John William HOLLISTER, Penetang, saddle and harness merchant – mortgage dated 20 th October 1915 – registered 3rd February 1916 at 2:30 p.m., Book 342 for Penetang as No. 4713. Also discharge (date same 13 April 1918) Robert ELLIOTT to Mr. Louis COLUMBUS Penetang, lumberman – mortgage made by John HOLLISTER to Robert ELLIOTT of date 4th November 1908, registered 24th November 1908 at 10 a.m. book 303 Penetang as No. 3508. Note – this mortgage was paid off 13th April 1918 by Mr. COLUMBUS, but by mistake Mr. ELLIOTT brought in the wrong papers then, and the other mortgage, above, was discharged as if paid off by COLUMBUS That's where I drew the occupations from. And this particular ledger was so full of specific details, that I extracted occupations just for fun, and I had also done an "out of town" extract too - there were many folks throughout who had moved to different areas, so I recorded their destinations separately and that list is also part of the transcription on the shelves of the museum. Some of the artisans worked at one of the local carriage makers, so I may be so bold as to assume they were craftsmen of fancy wood working or metalwork. Though I suppose they could even be gifted at leatherwork. So - if one sees artisan in an ancestor's job description, perhaps the clue to what kind of artisan they were may lie in their employer - or forever remain an intriguing mystery! Deborah

What a great picture you have painted! A harried housewife wiping her hands on her apron, kids crying and clinging to her skirts, confronted in her doorway by some pompous bureaucrat who is asking silly questions. Certainly that picture could apply to census taking as it was in the 'burbs' in the early years of our country. But the term 'artisan' seems to appear in other documents more often than it does in a census return as evidenced by the work Deb is doing. It almost seems as if it is used as a catch-all word where the type of work or occupation was not self evident. We all know, and presumably so did our ancestors, that a smithy worked at a forge and was called a blacksmith. Probably called a BLACKsmith because that was the colour of his clothes the above housewife had to wash with lye in a bucket! I digress. So the guy who worked with leather, after the tanner got through with it, would be known as an artisan instead of a leather worker? Possibly. But let me throw out another idea that might have influenced the use of the word artisan - language. The predominant language in this area was French and most of the French citizens of the time were uneducated and often illiterate. History of the town shows that most of the men who held positions of importance in municipal affairs - lawyers, clerks, politicians - were educated and English speaking. A fellow who knew the French word for what he did for a living, but not the English word, might find himself labeled as an artisan by a confused Anglo who having no idea what the French word meant just stuck the word artisan in the occupation box. Words for thought. Pam p.s. the three of us are having fun!