I don't have it all at hand, but mother's mother's mother's line and mother's mother's father's line converged after several generations in the 1690's. > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:23:37 -0800 > From: vonia68@yahoo.com > To: can-ont-simcoe@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CAN-ONT-SIMCOE] Genealogical exercise > > I too love this idea.. I spent all day yesterday looking up information on my > grandmothers I have long neglected!! > > <Carolyn<Corinne<Phyllis<Aranetta<Susannah<Susannah<Elizabeth<maybe a Mary:) > thank you for the suggestion!! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Robertson, Scott (Toronto - Finance)" > <Scott.A.Robertson@mtsallstream.com> > To: can-ont-simcoe@rootsweb.com > Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 9:28:26 AM > Subject: [CAN-ONT-SIMCOE] Genealogical exercise > > What a great exercise. > > > > > > Here is my line. > > > > Scott Robertson 1965 Ontario > > Joan Allin 1943 Ontario > > Elizabeth Carter 1918 Ontario > > Emma Guy 1888 Ontario > > Jane Thorne 1851 England > > Jane Burman 1825 England > > > > > > Scott Robertson > > In a warm Toronto > > > > > > ***************** > Ten People All Genealogists Should Follow On Twitter: http://tr.im/hBAy > > Simcoe Co. GenWeb at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CAN-ONT-SIMCOE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ***************** > Ten People All Genealogists Should Follow On Twitter: http://tr.im/hBAy > > Simcoe Co. GenWeb at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CAN-ONT-SIMCOE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

And they married younger! Mine averaged 25-30 at marriages or at least first births. I was 29 for first child, my mother was 28, her mother 27, although her mother married at 16 she was 38 when she was born, her mother married at 21 but was 37 when she was born, her mother was 19 when married but 4 years older at her birth, her mother 21 and 24 at her birth. So until the really early 1800s, my women married late and then were one of the youngest children Makes a big difference in the number of possible generations. Annie in Minnesota In a message dated 12/31/2010 9:10:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, pamtessier@sympatico.ca writes: Zowee! Lots of fun yet to be found in your trees! The only reason I have more grannies is that they were all French and we know how prolific they were. They had to populate a country.....and do it in a hurry before the English arrived! Pam

Zowee! Lots of fun yet to be found in your trees! The only reason I have more grannies is that they were all French and we know how prolific they were. They had to populate a country.....and do it in a hurry before the English arrived! Pam

What a great exercise. Here is my line. Scott Robertson 1965 Ontario Joan Allin 1943 Ontario Elizabeth Carter 1918 Ontario Emma Guy 1888 Ontario Jane Thorne 1851 England Jane Burman 1825 England Scott Robertson In a warm Toronto

In a message dated 12/31/2010 7:17:17 A.M. Central Standard Time, pamtessier@sympatico.ca writes: The likelihood that it will break down brickwalls in your main families is very small but it is a barrel of fun and will introduce you to names, families and history you never imagined were in your family tree. And as an exercise in researching other areas it can't be beat! Here's mine: Julia Byrne 1911 Annie McArdell 1881 (We have her father's line back to Dublin, Ireland in 1797, stuck there) Emma Cooper 1843 (We have her father's line back to Kent, England in 1735, stuck there) Elizabeth Buckland 1808 (Her grandfather was born in 1749, stuck there) Elizabeth Southernwood 1785 (Her grandfather was born 1726 - 1727, stuck there) Anne Pearce 1760 (We have her parents, but stuck there) As you can see, I don't have as many as you, mainly because I descend from the younger members of each family, therefore the parents were older at each birth. However, since I have connected to so many cousins, for Emma Cooper's father's line alone we have over 7600 known descendants from that first marriage in Kent in 1769 alone. And the family connects to 5 continents and 45 countries. Annie in Minnesota

In a message dated 12/31/2010 7:17:17 A.M. Central Standard Time, pamtessier@sympatico.ca writes: The likelihood that it will break down brickwalls in your main families is very small but it is a barrel of fun and will introduce you to names, families and history you never imagined were in your family tree. And as an exercise in researching other areas it can't be beat! Actually do this broke down a whole mess of walls in both Canada and in the U.S. While working with my Canadian cousins I would note that someone married someone with the same surname and ask if they were related. Finally they got smart and answered the questions by sending me every spousal tree that had already been done and as I entered them I found that many of the families had married, intermarried and intermarried again all amongst each other and ended up with a lot of info that I did not have before getting these spousal trees, info that fit into the main tree I was working on. Another example here in the U.S. I found that my mother's nephew had married a gal who had a cousin who had married my father's second cousin. Again, because of a spousal tree where I happened to connect with another cousin of the nephew's wife. And again I had more info for both my mother's tree and that of my father's that I had not found previously. I have also spent years researching families because I had a gut feeling that they had to be related but couldn't prove it. In one case, I was sure that the primary man was a brother to my grandfather but was never able to find a death record to prove it. As he was born in Bohemia as was my grandfather, I didn't know what I was going to do. Then I posted to the area giving an outline of that family and was contacted by 2 sisters in the Navy in California. This was their ggrandfather. Shortly thereafter one of the gals was discharged and came back to MN and I met her at the county courthouse to again try and find the death record. Her mother showed up also, bearing an obit. The man had died in a neighboring county at the Mayo clinic! So I ran over there, found his death record and was able to prove the connection. Another family I researched for years was just proven to be connected to us also, not too long ago, thanks to the help of someone from this list. I had been in contact with family members from that tree over the years but no one had any idea whether the original man was from Ireland or England and census info listed both over time. Thanks to someone on this list who checked the new IGI website and found his death date for us we have been able to prove that he was a brother to my ggrandfather and that family tree has just doubled. And this was another maternal line, my mother's mother's line. Once I joined them I also ended up with more info on another line because of more intermarriages. Another time I made a trip to Saskatchewan to check out the spousal line of one of my father's aunts who had married and then immigrated there. While stopping at the local mortuary I showed the secretary a book that had been published about my mother's grandmother's family to show her what I was interested in doing with my father's line and it ended up her mother was in that book! She was distantly related to me thru my mother's line! Annie in Minnesota

I need some help from the people on this list. Buried in the cemetery of St. Ann's of Penetanguishene is a fellow named "Michael McDonnell". He died 2 April 1844 and was buried on the 5th of April. His name does not appear in any other local church records. According to various sources (sometimes unreliable) he could be the fellow who was associated with Lord Selkirk in the Red River. Lots of stuff on this guy but the spelling variations of the surname are many. Was he an unknown Irishman, of whom there were many buried in the cemetery, or was he someone of importance? I have read the references to a Michael MacDonnell in Pioneer Papers and The History of Simcoe County. But is he the same person as the fellow buried here? Did he marry, have children? Anybody know? Pam

Annie, How great to have made a family connection and it certainly proved the worth of investigating maternal lines. However, if the exercise is done correctly, it will take you far, far away from your main families. Picture a pedigree chart that has run amok. By the time you get to the 12th generation, working ''womb to womb", you will have a greatly expanded family tree. This is not investigating maternal lines as we usually do it - wife of father and her extended family, wife of grandfather and her lines etc. etc. It is a whole new way of investigating a family for most of us. The likelihood that it will break down brickwalls in your main families is very small but it is a barrel of fun and will introduce you to names, families and history you never imagined were in your family tree. And as an exercise in researching other areas it can't be beat! Here's mine: Georgette Anderson 1921, Quebec Florida Tremblay 1885 Alphonsine Audet 1861 Emilie Hebert 1815 (born at the end of the War of 1812) Catherine Fournier 1792 Veronique Robert 1759 (where was she when Wolfe beat the hell out of Montcalm and changed history?) Veronique Gauthier 1737 Veronique Laporte 1719 Madeleine Viger 1679 Catherine Moitie 1649, France (the surprise person in my family tree, had a child by a man who wasn't her husband, oops) Francoise Langevin 1626 I'd bet some of the listers have even more interesting names and places! Pam

I too love this idea.. I spent all day yesterday looking up information on my grandmothers I have long neglected!! <Carolyn<Corinne<Phyllis<Aranetta<Susannah<Susannah<Elizabeth<maybe a Mary:)  thank you for the suggestion!! ________________________________ From: "Robertson, Scott (Toronto - Finance)" <Scott.A.Robertson@mtsallstream.com> To: can-ont-simcoe@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 9:28:26 AM Subject: [CAN-ONT-SIMCOE] Genealogical exercise What a great exercise. Here is my line. Scott Robertson 1965 Ontario Joan Allin 1943 Ontario Elizabeth Carter 1918 Ontario Emma Guy 1888 Ontario Jane Thorne 1851 England Jane Burman 1825 England Scott Robertson In a warm Toronto ***************** Ten People All Genealogists Should Follow On Twitter: http://tr.im/hBAy Simcoe Co. GenWeb at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CAN-ONT-SIMCOE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What a great picture you have painted! A harried housewife wiping her hands on her apron, kids crying and clinging to her skirts, confronted in her doorway by some pompous bureaucrat who is asking silly questions. Certainly that picture could apply to census taking as it was in the 'burbs' in the early years of our country. But the term 'artisan' seems to appear in other documents more often than it does in a census return as evidenced by the work Deb is doing. It almost seems as if it is used as a catch-all word where the type of work or occupation was not self evident. We all know, and presumably so did our ancestors, that a smithy worked at a forge and was called a blacksmith. Probably called a BLACKsmith because that was the colour of his clothes the above housewife had to wash with lye in a bucket! I digress. So the guy who worked with leather, after the tanner got through with it, would be known as an artisan instead of a leather worker? Possibly. But let me throw out another idea that might have influenced the use of the word artisan - language. The predominant language in this area was French and most of the French citizens of the time were uneducated and often illiterate. History of the town shows that most of the men who held positions of importance in municipal affairs - lawyers, clerks, politicians - were educated and English speaking. A fellow who knew the French word for what he did for a living, but not the English word, might find himself labeled as an artisan by a confused Anglo who having no idea what the French word meant just stuck the word artisan in the occupation box. Words for thought. Pam p.s. the three of us are having fun!

Great explanation Malcolm - but in the case of the occupations I'm listing lately, they weren't recorded by a census worker or enumerator, but rather by Mr. Hewson in his conveyancing reports. For example: May 13 1921 Prepare discharge – Robert ELLIOTT, Penetang, esquire to John William HOLLISTER, Penetang, saddle and harness merchant – mortgage dated 20 th October 1915 – registered 3rd February 1916 at 2:30 p.m., Book 342 for Penetang as No. 4713. Also discharge (date same 13 April 1918) Robert ELLIOTT to Mr. Louis COLUMBUS Penetang, lumberman – mortgage made by John HOLLISTER to Robert ELLIOTT of date 4th November 1908, registered 24th November 1908 at 10 a.m. book 303 Penetang as No. 3508. Note – this mortgage was paid off 13th April 1918 by Mr. COLUMBUS, but by mistake Mr. ELLIOTT brought in the wrong papers then, and the other mortgage, above, was discharged as if paid off by COLUMBUS That's where I drew the occupations from. And this particular ledger was so full of specific details, that I extracted occupations just for fun, and I had also done an "out of town" extract too - there were many folks throughout who had moved to different areas, so I recorded their destinations separately and that list is also part of the transcription on the shelves of the museum. Some of the artisans worked at one of the local carriage makers, so I may be so bold as to assume they were craftsmen of fancy wood working or metalwork. Though I suppose they could even be gifted at leatherwork. So - if one sees artisan in an ancestor's job description, perhaps the clue to what kind of artisan they were may lie in their employer - or forever remain an intriguing mystery! Deborah

Thank you to both Deb and Pam for your helpful replies - although I do still remain "open" for a more specific definition of a (just) Agent because of some lingering issues about someone using such a generic description of their business when others are being more definitive about what they were an agent for. I must say that a "Land Agent" or a "Real Estate Agent" are high on my long list of suspects for this term but I still don't know enough about how property sales and transfers were effected in earlier times to make that decission. Now I might be able to shed some light on the Artisan issue. Going way back, almost to medieval times, trades which required some learning of physical skills, techniques, and dexterity developed supervisory bodies which (mostly) were called Guilds. Amongst other activities these guilds conferred a hierarchy of titles on their members in recognition of their level of skill, experience, and success. These names applied to these skill levels varied from one Guild to another but they still crop up from time to time. In fact the Honourable Guild of Gold and Silver Smiths (I think that is right) still exists and still governs what a member of the Guild may call himself as a worker in precocious metals. I don't think the term Artisan actually exists in the goldsmith guild but skill levels that were used in many guilds - from the bottom up (I think) were: Apprentice, (a name specific to the guild - like Mechanic, Baker or Blacksmith), Journeyman, and Master. A Master "knew it all" and was now improving his skills on his own and "making a name for himself." The rather non specific level between Apprentice and Journeyman was sometimes called an Artisan or an Artificer depending on the trade traditions. That is why it's fashionable these days to be an Artisan Baker although I don't think there is any sort of active guild of bakers regulating the trade any more. The Guilds system pretty much fell apart as a result of the Great War - or perhaps it would be more accurate to say "about the time of the Great War" - because it was as much a result of changing life styles, social conditions and population mobility, all of which could be looked on as a result of the Great War or of the Industrial revolution, which again could be …… etc., etc. Anyway, the means of training new recruits into "the trades" changed quite radically but the old names tended to hang on even after their official "status" was no longer supported. So, in my mind anyway, an Artisan has received all the basic instruction needed to work at his trade but still needs the oversight of a more experienced workman who can judge the quality of his produce and help him to improve and refine his technique. Now let me do the "Your Milage may vary" bit. All the above was based on Britain as it shifted from a mainly rural to a mainly industrial based economy over a period of 500 to 600 years, or so. If we look at Upper Canada we are only talking about the last 300 odd years during which most of this same change has taken place so the whole industrial development process seems to be equally foreshortened and minimized. The Mechanics Institute is as close as I have noticed so far to a formal trades Guild in Canada (excepting the exotics such as the Gold and Silver Smiths etc.) So I'm not too sure exactly how the British "tradition"(?) of grades of workmanship was / is applied here but I think bearing the above background in mind may give you a baseline against which to judge these terms as used (and misused) here. I rather wonder if your issue with the Artisan might not be similar to mine with the Agent, and may arise from the manner in which data was gathered for Directories, Census and the like. A "man" was sent into a district and told to get specific information about all the householders / tradesman / everybody, which he did by going door to door and recording the answers he received. (Lets keep in mind he was paid by the number of records he collected and he probably didn't want to get get "hung up" at any particular house.) So his list of questions would start with Name? Address? etc. and at some point would come to "What are you" (meaning what is your trade or profession) but could easily be misinterpreted as what do you call yourself at work? In this case - and in a hurry - then "an Artisan" or "an Agent" is a reasonable response and the guy gathering the data just wants to get going so he isn't about to argue. And now here we are, 100 years later, trying to read dark ! meaning into an off-the-cuff answer given by someone annoyed to be standing at his front door when his main priority was to get back to his supper! :) Sorry! That was way longer than it was supposed to be. Perhaps I can win back a little friendship on the list by wishing all of you a Great New Year. :) Malcolm Archive CD Books Canada Inc. President: Malcolm Moody PO Box 11 Manotick Ontario, K4M 1A2 Canada. (613) 692-2667 WEB SITE: http://www.ArchiveCDBooks.ca FACEBOOK: http://tinyurl.com/ACDB-Can-on-Facebook On 30 Dec, 2010, at 10:28 PM, can-ont-simcoe-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 06:52:09 -0500 > From: Pam Tessier <pamtessier@sympatico.ca> > Subject: [CAN-ONT-SIMCOE] Agents and artisans > To: Simcoe Mailing List <can-ont-simcoe@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP3256005EDE6FAB304DDAE5A2030@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Malcolm, > > I don't have the experience of transcribing the documents the documents > that Deb does - I just read them later- but almost everytime I have > found the term "agent" listed as an occupation for a fellow, further > investigation has revealed he in fact had been selling something on > behalf of someone else, usually a commercial business of some kind. In > small towns, like Penetang in the late 1800s and early 1900s, a > tradesman usually sold goods from his business location but also acted > as an agent for various other businesses based in far away places - like > Toronto. Space generally limited the amount of goods he could display > and no doubt his finances played a part in how much inventory he could > carry. As an example, if he was a hardware store proprietor he carried > the usual small hardware items required by farmers and homeowners but if > someone required an item he did not have in stock, he could order it and > have it shipped in from another company. Therefore he acted as an agent > or a salesman for this company. Just as it is today, many had to have > more than one occupation to keep bread on the table so the local > furniture maker also crafted caskets and by extension became an > undertaker. He could well have been an agent for an insurance company. > Certainly this would be one way to be guaranteed payment! > > What I find most interesting in Deb's latest posting is the term > "artisan" and how often it was listed as an occupation. Artisan of what? > The definition of an artisan is "a skilled manual worker or craftsman" > and nowadays refers to anyone who has the talent to create a unique item > - potters, carvers etc. Usually a blacksmith is listed as such and the > same holds true for many other occupations but in the early days of the > last century just what did these artisans create or make? It certainly > would give us a better insight into their lives if they had been more > specific! > > Pam

It is in Simcoe County. Jane in Cooksville (Mississauga) Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara Lewis <lewisroots@comcast.net> To: <CAN-ONT-SIMCOE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: [CAN-ONT-SIMCOE] West Nottawasaga Presbyterian Church Cemeterytranscriptions > Hello...first may I ask, I'm confused about Collingwood..is it in Simcoe Co or Grey Co? I find both references...The Find a Grave on this cemetery shows Simcoe, so that's why I got on this list. > > My kin were buried in the above Cemetery...does anyone have the transcriptions to this cemetery that could do a lookup for me? I am looking for: > Finlay Ferguson...perhaps 1890 > Wife Mary McDonald died 1876 > Daughter, Margaret died 1880 > > There is another Finlay Ferguson who died in 1896 and I don't think that is him because I have his Obituary in the Collingwood bulletin showing he died in 1890, born in 1828. > > Hoping that someone can help me... > ***************** > Ten People All Genealogists Should Follow On Twitter: http://tr.im/hBAy > > Simcoe Co. GenWeb at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CAN-ONT-SIMCOE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Barbra The town of Collingwood is in Simcoe County, at the foot of Nottawasaga Bay, which is at the foot of Georgian Bay. Collingwood Township is just across the county line, the first township west, in Grey County. What a confusing world we live in. Two Collingwoods, cheek by jowl. Admiral Collingwood, for whom both were named, engaged the French in the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805, an hour before the main fleet. After Nelson's death, he assumed command and utterly routed the enemy. http://www.admiralsmotorinn.co.nz/collingwood That's a fair heritage for a newly established area in the "new land". My kin, CAMPBELLs and CURRIEs, arrived in Simcoe County, Nottawasaga Twp in 1832. Some are still there. Malcolm Campbell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Lewis" <lewisroots@comcast.net> To: <CAN-ONT-SIMCOE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: [CAN-ONT-SIMCOE] West Nottawasaga Presbyterian Church Cemeterytranscriptions > Hello...first may I ask, I'm confused about Collingwood..is it in Simcoe > Co or Grey Co? I find both references...The Find a Grave on this > cemetery shows Simcoe, so that's why I got on this list. > > My kin were buried in the above Cemetery...does anyone have the > transcriptions to this cemetery that could do a lookup for me? I am > looking for: > Finlay Ferguson...perhaps 1890 > Wife Mary McDonald died 1876 > Daughter, Margaret died 1880 > > There is another Finlay Ferguson who died in 1896 and I don't think that > is him because I have his Obituary in the Collingwood bulletin showing he > died in 1890, born in 1828. > > Hoping that someone can help me... > ***************** > Ten People All Genealogists Should Follow On Twitter: http://tr.im/hBAy > > Simcoe Co. GenWeb at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CAN-ONT-SIMCOE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sorry I don't have access to the cemetery transcripts but this links below might help. Here is a link to info about Collingwood. It is located in Simcoe County. http://www.simcoe.ca/dpt/arc/exhibits/collingwood/index.htm You can get a copy of the Cemetery records from the Ontario Archived through inter-library loan. Below is the reference # you will need for ordering: MS 451, Reel 50 This link might also help you. I know you can order the transcripts through the Simcoe County Genealogical Society. http://www.geneofun.on.ca/db.php?database=cgwcems&&index=15191&template=cgwcems-showON.html Hope this helps, Heather --- On Thu, 12/30/10, Barbara Lewis <lewisroots@comcast.net> wrote: From: Barbara Lewis <lewisroots@comcast.net> Subject: [CAN-ONT-SIMCOE] West Nottawasaga Presbyterian Church Cemetery transcriptions To: CAN-ONT-SIMCOE@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 10:12 PM Hello...first may I ask, I'm confused about Collingwood..is it in Simcoe Co or Grey Co?   I find both references...The Find a Grave on this cemetery shows Simcoe, so that's why I got on this list. My kin were buried in the above Cemetery...does anyone have the transcriptions to this cemetery that could do a lookup for me?  I am looking for: Finlay Ferguson...perhaps 1890 Wife Mary McDonald  died 1876 Daughter, Margaret   died 1880 There is another Finlay Ferguson who died in 1896 and I don't think that is him because I have his Obituary in the Collingwood bulletin showing he died in 1890, born in 1828. Hoping that someone can help me... ***************** Ten People All Genealogists Should Follow On Twitter: http://tr.im/hBAy Simcoe Co. GenWeb at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CAN-ONT-SIMCOE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello...first may I ask, I'm confused about Collingwood..is it in Simcoe Co or Grey Co? I find both references...The Find a Grave on this cemetery shows Simcoe, so that's why I got on this list. My kin were buried in the above Cemetery...does anyone have the transcriptions to this cemetery that could do a lookup for me? I am looking for: Finlay Ferguson...perhaps 1890 Wife Mary McDonald died 1876 Daughter, Margaret died 1880 There is another Finlay Ferguson who died in 1896 and I don't think that is him because I have his Obituary in the Collingwood bulletin showing he died in 1890, born in 1828. Hoping that someone can help me...

Believe it or not, up until Christmas 2004 the most luck we had had on our family tree was with maternal lines! Although I and several of my cousins have been working on our trees since the 70s we connected with many cousins from my mother's mother's, mother's line and ended up with a tree of 11 generations (over 7600 known descendants and counting. Then found cousins from my ggrandmother's mother's line and again ended up with 11 generations. Unfortunately, I am a second generation descendant of immigrants on nearly all sides so quickly ran into brick walls. My maternal grandfather's father was born in Ireland and even though my maternal uncle visited Ireland and found the birth records for him and his brother who both immigrated he could not find a marriage record for their parents. The whole bit was repeated by a BYRNE researcher in Ireland and he also ran into the same deadend. The same uncle visited Dublin, Ireland trying to find the birth record for my mother's mother's paternal grandfather, and again ran into a deadend, although on his marriage record in England he states that was where he was born. My father's father was born in Bohemia. His mother's line we have back to 1797 in NY before we hit a brick wall. My mother's paternal grandmother's line we have back to the mid 1700s in County Cork, Ireland. Then at Christmas time in 2004 I got the best Christmas present ever. I was contacted by a man who said he had a Bohemian family in his tree that looked just like mine. He had hired a Czech researcher and had been to the Czech Republic to visit the places were his family had lived. Checking with his researcher he got the birthdates of the connecting family and they all matched mine. Turned out our paternal ggrandfather had a brother who had immigrated to Chicago and so we had a whole mess of cousins we didn't know about. At Christmas time this cousin sent me copies of all his research and we now finally have a male line back to the 1650s!!! Fifteen generations!! And he has been sending photos of the houses in the Czech Republic where my grandfather and ggrandfather were born and where the generations before that were born in another town. Those houses are still there and still occupied by descendants!! So I agree, never stick to just the male lines, always do what you can on the spousal lines also. If I had just stuck to the male lines I would have been dead in the water after about 5 years. Instead I have enjoyed 37 years of very productive research and have "met" many, many cousins from all over the world on the net and worked with many of them for 20 years to make the parts of the trees that we could do as accurate and complete as possible. Annie in Minnesota In a message dated 12/30/2010 5:50:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, pamtessier@sympatico.ca writes: Just for fun, try it! These women were as much responsible for your existence as the woman who married your 3Xgreat grandfather and certainly deserve recognition from you, their descendant.

Malcolm, I don't have the experience of transcribing the documents the documents that Deb does - I just read them later- but almost everytime I have found the term "agent" listed as an occupation for a fellow, further investigation has revealed he in fact had been selling something on behalf of someone else, usually a commercial business of some kind. In small towns, like Penetang in the late 1800s and early 1900s, a tradesman usually sold goods from his business location but also acted as an agent for various other businesses based in far away places - like Toronto. Space generally limited the amount of goods he could display and no doubt his finances played a part in how much inventory he could carry. As an example, if he was a hardware store proprietor he carried the usual small hardware items required by farmers and homeowners but if someone required an item he did not have in stock, he could order it and have it shipped in from another company. Therefore he acted as an agent or a salesman for this company. Just as it is today, many had to have more than one occupation to keep bread on the table so the local furniture maker also crafted caskets and by extension became an undertaker. He could well have been an agent for an insurance company. Certainly this would be one way to be guaranteed payment! What I find most interesting in Deb's latest posting is the term "artisan" and how often it was listed as an occupation. Artisan of what? The definition of an artisan is "a skilled manual worker or craftsman" and nowadays refers to anyone who has the talent to create a unique item - potters, carvers etc. Usually a blacksmith is listed as such and the same holds true for many other occupations but in the early days of the last century just what did these artisans create or make? It certainly would give us a better insight into their lives if they had been more specific! Pam

Both Deb and I, and possibly a few others on this list, subscribe to the Quebec Research Rootsweb list. This is a wonderful list to belong to if you have an interest in French Canadian research. Two of the most frequent posters are a retired priest trained in canon law and a civil lawyer, both of whom have the linguistic skills that most of us do not possess. If you have any knowledge of the early days of Detroit-Windsor, you will recognize some well known names who have authored articles and books and the webmasters from some of the better known French Canadian genealogy sites. The range of postings and the help the listers provide is phenomenal. Just before Christmas it was suggested that we all trace our ancestry through the maternal lines and see how far back in time we could go. Now this was NOT the tracing of the women who married into your paternal line and are usually not much more than a name and a few dates, this was meant to be a real exercise in finding the mother of your mother, her mother's mother and then her mother and so on. As one person put it - womb to womb! The results were tabulated by one person and posted to the list every few days. The oldest date was mid 1500s with most in the mid 1600s time period. The countries where they were born were all over the European map. Many "Filles du Roi" turned up along with a few First Nations women. I know that my own efforts produced some very interesting results and filled in blanks I didn't know even realize were there. Just for fun, try it! These women were as much responsible for your existence as the woman who married your 3Xgreat grandfather and certainly deserve recognition from you, their descendant. Just in case, someone on the list suggests it, I am working on the mothers in my father's line. Another genealogical 'game' for 2011. And in case you do not hear from me again in 2010, best wishes for a 2011 that breaks down brick walls and gives you a better insight into the lives of those to whom we owe so much! Pam

Good question - "Agent" does seem to be a rather generic term, used to describe anyone selling farming implements, an agent of a railroad, an advertising agent.......and maybe even a secret agent! Since the subject of this post wasn't named Maxwell Smart, we may be safe in assuming he wasn't a spy. Unfortunately, there's not much of a clue from the wording of the transaction. William WALKER (agent) and his wife Louise , James H. CARD (travelling salesman) and Dave F. JAMIESON (wife Agnes), mechanic - all of Barrie - purchased a piece of property from Joseph Napoleon LEFAIVE (LEFEBVRE), butcher and his wife Bertha - on the 11th Concession of Tiny Township. Date of the record detailing the transaction was 21 July 1922. So perhaps if someone has a directory of Barrie for that year, there may be a clue as to what type of agent our Mr. Walker was. I think we'll find he was an advertising agent as I suspect William J. WALKER of Barrie and William M. WALKER of Barrie are the same person - Mr. Hewson sometimes was quite artistic in his letters, and it isn't always easy to read individual ones, such as the "J" or the "M". Combine that with the fact that these documents are pretty old, it's easy for me to inadvertently read it incorrectly. If a Walker descendant out there recognizes this man, I'll make a point of adding a note to the transcription. I realized yesterday that I left off a page, jumping from blacksmith implement agent to contractor. So for today, here are the other "b" and "c" entries: Builder Alfred DESROCHERS December 1921 Builder and Contractor Wenceslas BLANCHARD December 1922 Business Manager Ernest Arthur COPELAND March 1922 Business Owner George DONALDSON July 1921, Elijah LEFAIVE July 1921 and April 1922 (both Penetang Bottling) Butcher and Meat Purveyor Napoleon LEFEBVRE numerous entries October 1921 - August 1922; Michael Joseph McMURRAY February and August 1922; Harvey W. SMITH October 1921, February 1922 Carpenter: Joseph DESROCHES October 1921, John Joseph HURLEY June 1922, Ambrose LABATTE May 1921, Alfred LAURIAULT (Windsor) August 1921, Frank PAYETTE October 1922; John J. ROEBUCK (Midland) May 1921 Carpenter and Builder John L. HURLEY November 1922 Carriage Factory Hand Fabien FOURNIER september 1921 Constable John WATSON February 1922, April 1922, May 1922 (note - Mr. Watson was the town constable for many years , his constable's ledger is another treasure trove of information - but that's another post for another time) And finally - those noted as Esquire. There are many so I won't type the dates - they're all between 1921 and 1922 - George Edward COPELAND, Patrick CREAU (Toronto), Robert ELLIOTT, John Brown JENNINGS (former mayor of Penetanguishene), George KITCHING, Napoleon PAYETTE, Daniel QUINLAN (Barrie), John ROBB, George STOTT, Charles Ernest WRIGHT, and James WYNNE. That's it for this morning. Thanks for the reply Malcolm. Afraid we're probably no further ahead in our definition of "agent".......but maybe someone out there will recognize the fellow and provide another clue.