A few years ago there was a discussion on another internet list about the importance of birthdates. Why do we work so hard to get the exact birthdate of a person? After some discussion, one member of the list proposed that the primary purpose of birthdates in genealogy was to be able to distinguish one person from another. A prime example is that of my g-g-grandfather, John D. Campbell (1812-1890). There was another John D. Campbell (1813-1893) who lived near my g-g-grandfather. With birthdates less than a year apart, keeping them separate has been quite a challenge. For a long time I thought that the two were the same person, but since there was a gravestone for each, there had to be two people. I was able to separate them by the names of their children on the census. Oh, yes, both their wives were named Elizabeth. When we have several dates (such as birthdates) for an individual, we need to record each instance that we find along with the source. Then we need to use our best judgement as to which one to use. Note that I did not say which one is correct, because we probably can't be certain which is correct. Jim Campbell

A big thank you to those of you who responded to my question. The talk all about census errors, neighbors answering, also has been enlightening. Laura thank you so much for finding the 1900 census for my father for me, it is really a great census, so much info on that one, that I didn't know, or could confirm. I believe now with the 1900 census, his 1st marriage record, his World War I registration, the 1900 & 1910 census, and his death certificate all saying his birthyear was 1876, I believe that I will go with that, those weigh the most evidence that I can see. If anyone has any further suggestions or comments I would love to hear them. Also if anyone can ever locate him in the 1930 census I would really appreciate that. Again my sincerest thanks to all....Peggy

Cousin AT, My earliest Campbell is John D. Campbell (1812-1890) who lived in the part of Lincoln County, NC that later became Catawba County. This is in the Piedmont of NC northwest of Charlotte. I am a participant in the Campbell DNA project but so far, nothing that helps me find his parents or siblings. As to the gravestone, it wasn't the engraver's mistake. The 1857 date was the one she claimed as her birth year. She wanted everyone to think she was eight years younger than she really was. Jim Campbell My home page (just my lines, not everyone) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jecralnc My GEDCOM (everyone, except the living, in my database) http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=jecralnc Atpowelljr@aol.com wrote: > CUZ Jim Campbell. > Where are your Campbell's From, My Ancestors were all in Amherst, Nelson & >Appomattox Counties Va. Of course now I have Cousins ALLL OVER. > > That Stone Date , The man put the wrong date for my Father;s Death The >Siblings Mace him come Back & redo it CUZ A T & Leona > >

Some one was confused about the census stating some were born in Iowa when they were actually born in Indiana. I ran into this where census said some of my ancestors were born in IA when I knew they were actually born in Indiana. After some research I found back then IA was actually an abbreviation for Indiana. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie Campbell" <margecam@comcast.net> To: <CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 9:03 AM Subject: [CAMPBELL] Census takers > A lot of the time, it was a neighbor giving information, The census taker > probably asked the household he was at about the next farm up the road.. > Saved himself some time if this family could name the next one for him (this > is my own theory, not a known fact). > In 1850 Ellis Campbell is shown to have several sons then his first girl is > listed as a male... Correct age, but a male. I can see neighbors thinking > Dorcas was a boy. They were poor, and maybe for her own safety?, she was > probably wearing her brother's hand me downs, and hair fastened back like > the boys..an easy error. Or maybe the census taker was told right and felt > this couldn't be a girl. We will never know why litle Dorcas was put down > as a boy. If someone doing family research on just her, they would never > find her in the 1850 census.. Instead of Dorcas Campbell, female age 10.. > They will find Derias Campbell male age 10. If you are just searching the > index, you will miss her family for sure. If I can't find a person on the > census by listing all I know (or think I know) I try a year (for Dorcas, > 1840 +-2yrs)and state of birth (MO)..then I go through each one of these > actual pages.. Looking at the family.. I would find all names that are > close..including Derias... I would then look for this same individual on the > next census to see how they are listed.. I didn't find a Derias b 1840 > +-2yrs on the 1860... I did find a Dorcas... Checking.. Yep same family. Go > back to Ellis Campbell in 1840...yep youngest is a girl. She is a girl on > all census except 1850. > Answers to brick walls are there..we just have to use some creative > research. > Marge > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pjpeters2@aol.com [mailto:Pjpeters2@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:49 PM > To: CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CAMPBELL] RE- WHERE WAS he BORN & WHAST WAS Your Fathers NAME > > His name was Charles Ernest Williams born in Daviess Co., Indiana birthdate > March 10th. His fathers name was George W. Williams abt 1844 IN. and his > mother was Mary Ellen Campbell 1844 Ohio. They both died in OK. > > I just wasn't sure what to do, I hate to put 1876-1878 for my own father. > At first I thought his mother would have know best in the 1880 census, but > that was before I learned how many census takers made!! > > Thanks for your reply....Peggy > > ______________________________ > > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > NOTE: This message was trained as non-spam. If this is wrong, > please correct the training as soon as possible. > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 19089116) is spam: > Spam: http://filter.rraz.net/b.php?c=s&i=19089116&m=977eefa640e5 > Not spam: http://filter.rraz.net/b.php?c=n&i=19089116&m=977eefa640e5 > Forget vote: http://filter.rraz.net/b.php?c=f&i=19089116&m=977eefa640e5 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS >

Hello Cecil, Yes, Caty could have been Chiles/Childs, because we still have no maiden named for her, so any name is possible for her. Best regards, Lilly Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: <Familyhstryman@aol.com> To: <CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:35 AM Subject: [CAMPBELL] CATY CAMPBELL > HEY VIRGINIA COUSINS > I was just wondering if there is anyway that CATY married to George > CAMPBELL > could have been a CHILES OR CHILDES before she married George > Campbell.Maybe > that is why that family knows his history. > > > Cecil Campbell > > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

A lot of the time, it was a neighbor giving information, The census taker probably asked the household he was at about the next farm up the road.. Saved himself some time if this family could name the next one for him (this is my own theory, not a known fact). In 1850 Ellis Campbell is shown to have several sons then his first girl is listed as a male... Correct age, but a male. I can see neighbors thinking Dorcas was a boy. They were poor, and maybe for her own safety?, she was probably wearing her brother's hand me downs, and hair fastened back like the boys..an easy error. Or maybe the census taker was told right and felt this couldn't be a girl. We will never know why litle Dorcas was put down as a boy. If someone doing family research on just her, they would never find her in the 1850 census.. Instead of Dorcas Campbell, female age 10.. They will find Derias Campbell male age 10. If you are just searching the index, you will miss her family for sure. If I can't find a person on the census by listing all I know (or think I know) I try a year (for Dorcas, 1840 +-2yrs)and state of birth (MO)..then I go through each one of these actual pages.. Looking at the family.. I would find all names that are close..including Derias... I would then look for this same individual on the next census to see how they are listed.. I didn't find a Derias b 1840 +-2yrs on the 1860... I did find a Dorcas... Checking.. Yep same family. Go back to Ellis Campbell in 1840...yep youngest is a girl. She is a girl on all census except 1850. Answers to brick walls are there..we just have to use some creative research. Marge -----Original Message----- From: Pjpeters2@aol.com [mailto:Pjpeters2@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:49 PM To: CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CAMPBELL] RE- WHERE WAS he BORN & WHAST WAS Your Fathers NAME His name was Charles Ernest Williams born in Daviess Co., Indiana birthdate March 10th. His fathers name was George W. Williams abt 1844 IN. and his mother was Mary Ellen Campbell 1844 Ohio. They both died in OK. I just wasn't sure what to do, I hate to put 1876-1878 for my own father. At first I thought his mother would have know best in the 1880 census, but that was before I learned how many census takers made!! Thanks for your reply....Peggy ______________________________

This is all so true Lilly, I can add several examples of birth, death, marriage and wills that prove exactly what you are saying. One example that really needs research is what is written in the Heritage Books, I have seen reports on different ancestors that has been proven incorrect in different ways yet repeated again in the book #2. Don't get me wrong, these books are great for a beginning point to research your ancestor, but it isn't necessarily the honest truth. Most are stories handed down through the generations. But I do enjoy looking through the books to get some sort of a handle on a relative, a feel for the area and a possible point in the right direction. Remember the birth dates were generally recorded much later than the actual birth and some times not even reported by a relative but perhaps a message sent by a neighbor on their way to a recorders office. Marriage dates could be way off as the preachers weren't always next door to perform the ceremony. Long ago they usually made trips through the area when they could. As far as death certificates which would also apply to birth certificates, the spelling could be way off. I found that true with one of my great grandfathers, the only familiar thing was the last name started with a "C". I would imagine this had to be an error by the person recording the death. This I was told could be corrected if I could get a letter from the undertaker, doctor or a living relative or neighbor from that time period. Unfortunately they are all dead...so the last name on the death certificate is wrong but I know it is wrong...I go by the dates and name on his tombstone. Just trying to point out that just because it is written in a book doesn't necessarily make it so. Right now if my mother was giving information to someone who wants to write a book on her life and times, it would probably be so confusing because at 83, she has a hard time remembering certain things at different times and at other times she is very clear about things. I think I would probably trust a family Bible more than anything and I know that there are probably lots of arguments against that example also. I think that what we have been doing for the past several months, going through the census and gathering information from different cousins, looking at the birth, death, wills, deeds, census information and marriage certificates to try and figure out which is which and what is what brings us closer to the truth than anything. I appreciate the information that all of the cousins have contributed and I feel that one of these days we will find out who George Campbell's parents are and where he came from and when. Thanks to all of you, I appreciate all that you have done and continue to do. Mary Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lilly Martin" <malik@scs-net.org> To: <CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:38 AM Subject: [CAMPBELL] To all persons Questioning Facts > To all others researching, > > I have only been doing research fro 4 yrs, so I have not learned alot, but > a few basic things I learned the old fashioned hard way. > > 1. Never believe that a Will will name all children. A Will will name > only those kids or persons that the writer of the Will would LIKE to give > something to, or to remember in the Will. > > A rich son might not be mentioned, but his dead brother's kids might. > Why? The rich son is already set up for life, why give him more, when he > doesn't need it? I can show you many Wills of men with large families, > and only a few kids are mentioned in the Will, so the names in a Will do > not necessarily equate to the number of children a man/woman has. > > I can show you a death bed Will of a young father, who forgot to name one > 4 yr old son. Why? He was in pain, sick, half dead at the time, his wife > was also sick, and pregnant. I think the neighbor men came to take down > the Will and get it recorded, and they wrote down the kids names as fast > as possible, the best they could, but with both parents laying at death's > door, one little boy got forgotten. He still grew up with the other > brothers, and when he died his kids were partially raised by his brother, > but he was never named in the Will. > > 2. Never put faith in the term Sr. or Jr. You could find a document for > Joel Campbell, and signed by Joel Campbell and witnessed by Joel Campbell, > Jr. and 'naturally' jump to the conclusion that they were father and son. > Not so at all, untrue! They were grandfather, and grandson, and the > father of Joel Campbell, Jr was not named Joel at all. > > So why do people use these term Jr. if not to mean their father was named > the same? They are also used as an identifier of AGE. Let's say I have a > community and there are several men, and in the same area named George > Campbell. Some are brothers, some cousins, some unrelated, some Uncles. > Along comes the census taker, and I tell him my name is George Campbell, > Jr. Was my Dad George also? No, he wasn't, but I want the census taker > to record that I am the YOUNGER man of the area named George Campbell, not > to be confused with my Old Man Uncle of the same name, or my OLDER > cousins, also of the same name. The same could be said of Sr., that might > mean that this man was the OLDEST man in his area name George Campbell, > out of a whole crowd similarly named. > > Don't ever believe the terms of Jr or Sr, unless you first determine > through other mans that you really do know who this person is. In fact, > at first you should doubt those terms, and then proceed to rersearch to > learn the true identity of that person. > > I come from a James Thompson , III yet he always said he was James > Thompson, Jr. Why, because his father was James Thompson, so he thought > he was Jr, but in reality he was #3, he just didn't rmember his > grandfather. > > 3. Never believe a death certificate. The DEAD person did know their own > name, and birth date and birth place and Parents names, etc. But the > problem is, the DEAD person was not filling out the DEATH certificate. It > was some daughter in law, or the cousin, or the old folks home, or the son > in law, and those people may, or may not know anything about that person. > I have many a death certificate filled out even by the deceased own > children, in which all the facts were distorted, convoluted and incorrect. > It is sad, shocking, and frustrating to look at an official document, and > know that it is incorrect. > > How do you verify it was wrong? You find the Birth certificate and then > you know the details of the death certificate were wrong. The parents are > giving the birth record of their child, they know when he was born and > where. If it says Iowa, then you know the death certificate which states > Maryland is wrong. I spent 6 months looking for a family in Maryland, and > I kept wondering why that name was so very uncommon in Maryland, it was > because the family was never in Maryland, nor even near to Maryland, but > the son who gave his mother's death info to the county officials thought > she was born in Maryland. To his mind, anything EAST of California, was > called Maryland! > > So I would always believe a Birth certificate before I ever believed any > death certificate. > > And marriage certificates can be wrong also. It is only as good as the > clerks handwriting. You may remember Nancy Campbell on her marriage > certificate? She was not Nancy Campbell, her name was Nancy Coffey. She > had no Campbell blood in her, she was simply getting married to a > Campbell. That mix up took me 3 -4 months to fathom, other researchers > kept trying to explain it to me, and I would go round and round, still > stupified. Finally I got to grasp the truth of the situation, based on > the parents, and their Wills, etc. > > 4. Never believe a History book which gives the Biography of local > persons, and states who their parents are and where they came from. These > books were written by writers who would come around and say they would > interview folks, and for a fee, they would write up your family story in a > Book which would be specific to your county location. > > My relative knew his mother was Lucinda, but she died when he was a baby, > and he was raised by his loving step-mother Nancy. So in the county book > he never mentioned his real Mom, only talked about his father and Nancy. > Now Nancy was born in NC, his real mom was born in IN, in all the many > lifetime of census records for him, he always states his mother's birth > place was IN. This means he was truthfully well aware he was not the son > of Nancy b. NC, but yet the book says that. So you can never believe a > book, even thought the family was interviewed for the book. People lie, > people forget, people change facts, etc. > > In conclusion, don't believe anything until you have studied it this way > and that, and have understood the family, and confered with others, and > feel comfortable with the facts of the case. Be prepared to find out that > there are birth, marriage, and death certificates which are wrong, or > partially wrong. Be prepared to find Wills which won't name your > relative, yet you know they should be named. Be prepared for anything. > Don't get nervous, or worried, this is a fun hobby, we can't make it a > science, it is an art, and it won't all fit into a nice neat box. There > will always be rough jaggedy edges we need to smooth down. > > Best regards, > Lilly Martin > > > > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > >

My problem is I have a lot of brothers with just brother 1 and sister 2 and so for all I know one of those brother 1's may be a Gorege Campbell. My line of Campbells married cousin's too and I found that it was a church thing as they married within their church group. My line has some John's and a Allen Campbell and they was from Scotland and then went to Ireland and one of my John Campbell's left Ireland in 1720 or 1722 and came here and left behind a wife and child and that is all we can find out about him and he has sister 1 2,3 and brothers 1,2,3,4, no names just the numbers. Bobbie Campbell Hopper -------Original Message------- From: Mary Ellen Date: 12/08/05 23:09:17 To: CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CAMPBELL] To all persons Questioning Facts This is all so true Lilly, I can add several examples of birth, death, marriage and wills that prove exactly what you are saying. One example that really needs research is what is written in the Heritage Books, I have seen reports on different ancestors that has been proven incorrect in different ways yet repeated again in the book #2. Don't get me wrong, these books are great for a beginning point to research your ancestor, but it isn't necessarily the honest truth. Most are stories handed down through the generations. But I do enjoy looking through the books to get some sort of a handle on a relative, a feel for the area and a possible point in the right direction. Remember the birth dates were generally recorded much later than the actual birth and some times not even reported by a relative but perhaps a message sent by a neighbor on their way to a recorders office. Marriage dates could be way off as the preachers weren't always next door to perform the ceremony. Long ago they usually made trips through the area when they could. As far as death certificates which would also apply to birth certificates, the spelling could be way off. I found that true with one of my great grandfathers, the only familiar thing was the last name started with a "C". I would imagine this had to be an error by the person recording the death. This I was told could be corrected if I could get a letter from the undertaker, doctor or a living relative or neighbor from that time period. Unfortunately they are all dead...so the last name on the death certificate is wrong but I know it is wrong...I go by the dates and name on his tombstone. Just trying to point out that just because it is written in a book doesn't necessarily make it so. Right now if my mother was giving information to someone who wants to write a book on her life and times, it would probably be so confusing because at 83, she has a hard time remembering certain things at different times and at other times she is very clear about things. I think I would probably trust a family Bible more than anything and I know that there are probably lots of arguments against that example also. I think that what we have been doing for the past several months, going through the census and gathering information from different cousins, looking at the birth, death, wills, deeds, census information and marriage certificates to try and figure out which is which and what is what brings us closer to the truth than anything. I appreciate the information that all of the cousins have contributed and I feel that one of these days we will find out who George Campbell's parents are and where he came from and when. Thanks to all of you, I appreciate all that you have done and continue to do. Mary Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lilly Martin" <malik@scs-net.org> To: <CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:38 AM Subject: [CAMPBELL] To all persons Questioning Facts > To all others researching, > > I have only been doing research fro 4 yrs, so I have not learned alot, but > a few basic things I learned the old fashioned hard way. > > 1. Never believe that a Will will name all children. A Will will name > only those kids or persons that the writer of the Will would LIKE to give > something to, or to remember in the Will. > > A rich son might not be mentioned, but his dead brother's kids might. > Why? The rich son is already set up for life, why give him more, when he > doesn't need it? I can show you many Wills of men with large families, > and only a few kids are mentioned in the Will, so the names in a Will do > not necessarily equate to the number of children a man/woman has. > > I can show you a death bed Will of a young father, who forgot to name one > 4 yr old son. Why? He was in pain, sick, half dead at the time, his wife > was also sick, and pregnant. I think the neighbor men came to take down > the Will and get it recorded, and they wrote down the kids names as fast > as possible, the best they could, but with both parents laying at death's > door, one little boy got forgotten. He still grew up with the other > brothers, and when he died his kids were partially raised by his brother, > but he was never named in the Will. > > 2. Never put faith in the term Sr. or Jr. You could find a document for > Joel Campbell, and signed by Joel Campbell and witnessed by Joel Campbell, > Jr. and 'naturally' jump to the conclusion that they were father and son. > Not so at all, untrue! They were grandfather, and grandson, and the > father of Joel Campbell, Jr was not named Joel at all. > > So why do people use these term Jr. if not to mean their father was named > the same? They are also used as an identifier of AGE. Let's say I have a > community and there are several men, and in the same area named George > Campbell. Some are brothers, some cousins, some unrelated, some Uncles. > Along comes the census taker, and I tell him my name is George Campbell, > Jr. Was my Dad George also? No, he wasn't, but I want the census taker > to record that I am the YOUNGER man of the area named George Campbell, not > to be confused with my Old Man Uncle of the same name, or my OLDER > cousins, also of the same name. The same could be said of Sr., that might > mean that this man was the OLDEST man in his area name George Campbell, > out of a whole crowd similarly named. > > Don't ever believe the terms of Jr or Sr, unless you first determine > through other mans that you really do know who this person is. In fact, > at first you should doubt those terms, and then proceed to rersearch to > learn the true identity of that person. > > I come from a James Thompson , III yet he always said he was James > Thompson, Jr. Why, because his father was James Thompson, so he thought > he was Jr, but in reality he was #3, he just didn't rmember his > grandfather. > > 3. Never believe a death certificate. The DEAD person did know their own > name, and birth date and birth place and Parents names, etc. But the > problem is, the DEAD person was not filling out the DEATH certificate. It > was some daughter in law, or the cousin, or the old folks home, or the son > in law, and those people may, or may not know anything about that person. > I have many a death certificate filled out even by the deceased own > children, in which all the facts were distorted, convoluted and incorrect. > It is sad, shocking, and frustrating to look at an official document, and > know that it is incorrect. > > How do you verify it was wrong? You find the Birth certificate and then > you know the details of the death certificate were wrong. The parents are > giving the birth record of their child, they know when he was born and > where. If it says Iowa, then you know the death certificate which states > Maryland is wrong. I spent 6 months looking for a family in Maryland, and > I kept wondering why that name was so very uncommon in Maryland, it was > because the family was never in Maryland, nor even near to Maryland, but > the son who gave his mother's death info to the county officials thought > she was born in Maryland. To his mind, anything EAST of California, was > called Maryland! > > So I would always believe a Birth certificate before I ever believed any > death certificate. > > And marriage certificates can be wrong also. It is only as good as the > clerks handwriting. You may remember Nancy Campbell on her marriage > certificate? She was not Nancy Campbell, her name was Nancy Coffey. She > had no Campbell blood in her, she was simply getting married to a > Campbell. That mix up took me 3 -4 months to fathom, other researchers > kept trying to explain it to me, and I would go round and round, still > stupified. Finally I got to grasp the truth of the situation, based on > the parents, and their Wills, etc. > > 4. Never believe a History book which gives the Biography of local > persons, and states who their parents are and where they came from. These > books were written by writers who would come around and say they would > interview folks, and for a fee, they would write up your family story in a > Book which would be specific to your county location. > > My relative knew his mother was Lucinda, but she died when he was a baby, > and he was raised by his loving step-mother Nancy. So in the county book > he never mentioned his real Mom, only talked about his father and Nancy. > Now Nancy was born in NC, his real mom was born in IN, in all the many > lifetime of census records for him, he always states his mother's birth > place was IN. This means he was truthfully well aware he was not the son > of Nancy b. NC, but yet the book says that. So you can never believe a > book, even thought the family was interviewed for the book. People lie, > people forget, people change facts, etc. > > In conclusion, don't believe anything until you have studied it this way > and that, and have understood the family, and confered with others, and > feel comfortable with the facts of the case. Be prepared to find out that > there are birth, marriage, and death certificates which are wrong, or > partially wrong. Be prepared to find Wills which won't name your > relative, yet you know they should be named. Be prepared for anything. > Don't get nervous, or worried, this is a fun hobby, we can't make it a > science, it is an art, and it won't all fit into a nice neat box. There > will always be rough jaggedy edges we need to smooth down. > > Best regards, > Lilly Martin > > > > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/195 - Release Date: 12/8/2005

CUZ Jim Campbell. Where are your Campbell's From, My Ancestors were all in Amherst, Nelson & Appomattox Counties Va. Of course now I have Cousins ALLL OVER. That Stone Date , The man put the wrong date for my Father;s Death The Siblings Mace him come Back & redo it CUZ A T & Leona

His name was Charles Ernest Williams born in Daviess Co., Indiana birthdate March 10th. His fathers name was George W. Williams abt 1844 IN. and his mother was Mary Ellen Campbell 1844 Ohio. They both died in OK. I just wasn't sure what to do, I hate to put 1876-1878 for my own father. At first I thought his mother would have know best in the 1880 census, but that was before I learned how many census takers made!! Thanks for your reply....Peggy

PEGGY, Name-Time & AS near to Is MOST nessary. LIKE State, County & Town. ALL of this is GREAT BUT Some of it is a Must CUZ A T & Leona

Hi Lilly, A.T. and all other posters; I had to laugh when I read your post about NOT believing all that you read. My case in point: My sister and I were raised by our grandparents who we called "mama and daddy". When my sister was 64 yrs. and old enough for social security, she sent for her birth certificate in another state. The document came back showing that our eldest sister was, in fact, her REAL mother. Needless to say, I fast tracked to the records office to discover that my b.c. said 'somewhat' the same thing. Of couse, by this time, grandparents and mother were deceased. The father's names on the certificates were not the same for both b.c.'s. So, I wrote to a "cousin" in another state who had gone to school with our mother and asked if she had any idea who our father could be. She gave me the name of the person. And, NO, I never contacted him or his family. So there is WRONG information on both our birth certificates, our school records, our grandmother's will, our mother's will, all the census records, and probably a lot of other records I have forgotten about. The 'cousin' who sent me the information is now also deceased. BUT, I have set the record straight in my family genealogical reports so future generations will get it right. Did I name the person who is our father? Yes I did, along with a copy of the cousin's letter. So, A.T. and Lilly are quite right. Never believe everything you read....even documents. Happy hunting. Phyllis in CA

HOWDY COUSINS I just cant help but Sharing My Great KIN FOLK, Y,ALL see I am so mixed in KIN. Cousins Married Cousins & some more Cousins Married Some other Cousin. There were there were 5 Generation's of Stinnett's then the Wilmore's/Wilmer's to the 8th generation of Campbells & I am 12th Generation of Powell's So I have so many fine Cousins I can Share & Still KEEP counting. OH yes & there have been three Different Families that changed the Spelling of their names, Cousin Marge Campbell Mentions, What happens concerning D. N. A. __?? & BREED out time, is the best way that I know how to refer to the period that two races would have the potential to show up in Descendents, I am sure that is open for research Proof,________ ? WHEN? Now this is Known by records & research, we are Amateurs, BUT medical Science has proven that There are hereditary Decease, That skips one or more generation,s & strikes again. One of my Grt Grand Fathers Died From a Brain Hemorrhage His Mother Died the next from hemorrhaging from Child Birth In 1881 The Daughter of that Grt Grand Father's Daughter, My Mother's Mother Died in Child birth with her 4th Child in 1908. My Mother Born in 1906 D 1979 Gave birth to 11 Children NO Problem, her youngest Dau B 1947 Gave birth in 1974 & had the Hemorrhaging Problem She was saved, So JUST how long does something last in a human? AGAIN___?? SO What is the MOST important vital Document to Obtain The death certificate may not prove unquestionable in AGE & Kin BUT it does State WHAT IF any Problems there were at death, which could prove a life saver. I do not have a death certificate for all of My Grand parents but I have some. WELL Luck Cousins. CUZ A T & Leona

HEY VIRGINIA COUSINS I was just wondering if there is anyway that CATY married to George CAMPBELL could have been a CHILES OR CHILDES before she married George Campbell.Maybe that is why that family knows his history. Cecil Campbell

All this talk about not believing what you read brings up a point for me that I would like to inquire about. I am really in a quandary as to know what I should put on my family tree as my father's birth year. He died when I was only 17, but he honestly didn't know if he was born in 1876 or 1878, as we talked about that several times. All of our family is gone so there is no one I can turn to except my group of "cousins", so I will tell you what information I do have & hope you will write to me off line _pjpeters2@aol.com_ (mailto:pjpeters2@aol.com) and let me know what you suggest I do. The first census I locate him in is the 1880 and they show his age as 2 (which would be 1878). The second is the 1910 at age 34 (1876) The last is 1920 at age 48 (1872) His 1st marriage (I have copy of) was Indian Territory in Nov 1900 which said he was 24 (1876). His marriage to my mother in 1931 said 48 but I know he was trying to make himself younger, as my mother put her age at 27 and she was only 21! So I discount this.. His social security application (I have copy) he put down he was born in 1878. His World War I draft registration in 1918 says his birthday was 1876. His Calif. death certificate says 1876 & that information was given to them by his 1st son who was born 1904, 30 years before I was born. Even social security couldn't find his birth certificate, he said he was born in a log milling camp and it never got made out I guess. Please, I really would like your opinion on this... Sincerely, Peggy

...Even on tombstones. I had a distant relative whose tombstone said that she was born in 1857. However, she appeared in the 1850 census as being one year old. The 1860 census showed her as 11 years old. When I posted the information on the internet one of her direct descendants contacted me, quite upset, and pointed out my mistake. I gave her my reasoning and never heard from her again. I'm still not sure that she was convinced, as she felt that the tombstone was "gospel". Jim Campbell

My Wiley Campbell was born in 1846. He told his children he was born in Indiana near Vincennes. The census shows Iowa. He said his brothers fought on opposite sides in the Civil War. My brother is part of the DNA project and at the 25-marker level, he is an exact match to John Campbell (1674) who was married to Grace Hay. His wife (I don't know if she was his first wife) was Sarah Williams, who died before 1890. His eldest son was Andy. Andy told his family his full name was Milton Anderson Campbell. Wiley's next son was Joseph E. The daughters were Margaret Elizabeth and Agnes. Other sons were Grant and Elmer Lee. According to the census records, all the children were born in MO. I find Wiley only in the 1880 census for certain. I have heard that Wiley died before 1900, and I have heard that he lived to be an old man and remarried and had another family. I would be grateful for any help. Lee Ann Dauphinot

another birth certificate story - my husband's grandmother was born in Jan of 1900 - but the doc wrote Jan 1899 - he was experiencing what most of us do - forgetting that the year had just changed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "sandmot" <sandmot@comcast.net> To: <CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [CAMPBELL] To all persons Questioning Facts > lilly, > you said ( So I would always believe a Birth certificate before I ever > believed any death certificate.)i have a birth certificate that is born > example 7/11 and it was suppose to be 9/11..a 7 can me taken for a 9 very > easy,but to correct it was quite a lot of other documents of which i could > not find..they should have done it as july versus september..so caution to > alot of documents.sandy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lilly Martin" <malik@scs-net.org> > To: <CAMPBELL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:38 AM > Subject: [CAMPBELL] To all persons Questioning Facts > > > > To all others researching, > > > > I have only been doing research fro 4 yrs, so I have not learned alot, but > > a few basic things I learned the old fashioned hard way. > > > > 1. Never believe that a Will will name all children. A Will will name > > only those kids or persons that the writer of the Will would LIKE to give > > something to, or to remember in the Will. > > > > A rich son might not be mentioned, but his dead brother's kids might. > > Why? The rich son is already set up for life, why give him more, when he > > doesn't need it? I can show you many Wills of men with large families, > > and only a few kids are mentioned in the Will, so the names in a Will do > > not necessarily equate to the number of children a man/woman has. > > > > I can show you a death bed Will of a young father, who forgot to name one > > 4 yr old son. Why? He was in pain, sick, half dead at the time, his wife > > was also sick, and pregnant. I think the neighbor men came to take down > > the Will and get it recorded, and they wrote down the kids names as fast > > as possible, the best they could, but with both parents laying at death's > > door, one little boy got forgotten. He still grew up with the other > > brothers, and when he died his kids were partially raised by his brother, > > but he was never named in the Will. > > > > 2. Never put faith in the term Sr. or Jr. You could find a document for > > Joel Campbell, and signed by Joel Campbell and witnessed by Joel Campbell, > > Jr. and 'naturally' jump to the conclusion that they were father and son. > > Not so at all, untrue! They were grandfather, and grandson, and the > > father of Joel Campbell, Jr was not named Joel at all. > > > > So why do people use these term Jr. if not to mean their father was named > > the same? They are also used as an identifier of AGE. Let's say I have a > > community and there are several men, and in the same area named George > > Campbell. Some are brothers, some cousins, some unrelated, some Uncles. > > Along comes the census taker, and I tell him my name is George Campbell, > > Jr. Was my Dad George also? No, he wasn't, but I want the census taker > > to record that I am the YOUNGER man of the area named George Campbell, not > > to be confused with my Old Man Uncle of the same name, or my OLDER > > cousins, also of the same name. The same could be said of Sr., that might > > mean that this man was the OLDEST man in his area name George Campbell, > > out of a whole crowd similarly named. > > > > Don't ever believe the terms of Jr or Sr, unless you first determine > > through other mans that you really do know who this person is. In fact, > > at first you should doubt those terms, and then proceed to rersearch to > > learn the true identity of that person. > > > > I come from a James Thompson , III yet he always said he was James > > Thompson, Jr. Why, because his father was James Thompson, so he thought > > he was Jr, but in reality he was #3, he just didn't rmember his > > grandfather. > > > > 3. Never believe a death certificate. The DEAD person did know their own > > name, and birth date and birth place and Parents names, etc. But the > > problem is, the DEAD person was not filling out the DEATH certificate. It > > was some daughter in law, or the cousin, or the old folks home, or the son > > in law, and those people may, or may not know anything about that person. > > I have many a death certificate filled out even by the deceased own > > children, in which all the facts were distorted, convoluted and incorrect. > > It is sad, shocking, and frustrating to look at an official document, and > > know that it is incorrect. > > > > How do you verify it was wrong? You find the Birth certificate and then > > you know the details of the death certificate were wrong. The parents are > > giving the birth record of their child, they know when he was born and > > where. If it says Iowa, then you know the death certificate which states > > Maryland is wrong. I spent 6 months looking for a family in Maryland, and > > I kept wondering why that name was so very uncommon in Maryland, it was > > because the family was never in Maryland, nor even near to Maryland, but > > the son who gave his mother's death info to the county officials thought > > she was born in Maryland. To his mind, anything EAST of California, was > > called Maryland! > > > > So I would always believe a Birth certificate before I ever believed any > > death certificate. > > > > And marriage certificates can be wrong also. It is only as good as the > > clerks handwriting. You may remember Nancy Campbell on her marriage > > certificate? She was not Nancy Campbell, her name was Nancy Coffey. She > > had no Campbell blood in her, she was simply getting married to a > > Campbell. That mix up took me 3 -4 months to fathom, other researchers > > kept trying to explain it to me, and I would go round and round, still > > stupified. Finally I got to grasp the truth of the situation, based on > > the parents, and their Wills, etc. > > > > 4. Never believe a History book which gives the Biography of local > > persons, and states who their parents are and where they came from. These > > books were written by writers who would come around and say they would > > interview folks, and for a fee, they would write up your family story in a > > Book which would be specific to your county location. > > > > My relative knew his mother was Lucinda, but she died when he was a baby, > > and he was raised by his loving step-mother Nancy. So in the county book > > he never mentioned his real Mom, only talked about his father and Nancy. > > Now Nancy was born in NC, his real mom was born in IN, in all the many > > lifetime of census records for him, he always states his mother's birth > > place was IN. This means he was truthfully well aware he was not the son > > of Nancy b. NC, but yet the book says that. So you can never believe a > > book, even thought the family was interviewed for the book. People lie, > > people forget, people change facts, etc. > > > > In conclusion, don't believe anything until you have studied it this way > > and that, and have understood the family, and confered with others, and > > feel comfortable with the facts of the case. Be prepared to find out that > > there are birth, marriage, and death certificates which are wrong, or > > partially wrong. Be prepared to find Wills which won't name your > > relative, yet you know they should be named. Be prepared for anything. > > Don't get nervous, or worried, this is a fun hobby, we can't make it a > > science, it is an art, and it won't all fit into a nice neat box. There > > will always be rough jaggedy edges we need to smooth down. > > > > Best regards, > > Lilly Martin > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > >

COUSIN James Crownover, jec2, I believe that your Ancestral line goes back to Benjamin H. Stinnett, Jr. Son of Benjamin H Stinnett & Elizabeth Saunders, M. to An ISHAM. as Mine goes back to His Brother William B. Stinnett M to Ann Shoemaker. I was using the Word Stickler for those Researchers, That only Believe what they find at the Court HOUSE in the County where their Ancestor;s were supposed to have lived. From what I am getting from Both My Stinnett's & Campbell's of which I have Many-Many of both Families World wide, I NOW as when I started Family research in 1995, After Retirement, <My late Sister was into Family Research Some what, When she was telling me ABT it, I told her That to be Careful for she would find something that she was not looking for. SIS, DO you know something that I,<her> Don't??, Well she has been gone since FEB/2002 & YES <LATE SISTER> I sure have learned A WHOLE LOT that was not known in 1995, Good Bad & indifferent, to say the least. A few things that I believe & Practice, <ASK & ANSWER QUESTIONS SOME ONE KNOWS> THE foundation for the largest GENEALOGICAL Brick wall ever found is these 4 words <IT JUST CANT BE> REALY NOW, Just how could any one JUST CANT BE> if they have not tried, to see, <IF IT JUST know, <ITMIGHT BE> in other words, Human Genealogy research has the same answer that the repair Shop has, Now instead of a Mechanic there are new parts replacement Tecnitions- Our Fore Bears Had Senior Relatives to Relate to them, YEP the old Mechanic had to try too. Family Storys were Suspect, TRUE, MY mother,s Mother was born in 1906, Her mother Died when mama was yrs her Grand mother who was born in 1844 raised Mama, HAND ME down Folk tales, NOW just tell me who would not envy what My Mother had the opportunity to learn, Just ponder that. Now Jim , Benjamin Stinnett had 5 children But his will only shows provisions made for 4- the 5th one was Married & Ben gave her Husband 100 acres of land Years before the will was writen in 1773. CUZ A T & LEONA. MERRY CHRISTMAS from me Y,ALL HAVE what you will. I hope Sharing this is OK, I have so many GREAT cousins that I Just thought it would be good to SHARE Y,ALL ACUZ A T

To all others researching, I have only been doing research fro 4 yrs, so I have not learned alot, but a few basic things I learned the old fashioned hard way. 1. Never believe that a Will will name all children. A Will will name only those kids or persons that the writer of the Will would LIKE to give something to, or to remember in the Will. A rich son might not be mentioned, but his dead brother's kids might. Why? The rich son is already set up for life, why give him more, when he doesn't need it? I can show you many Wills of men with large families, and only a few kids are mentioned in the Will, so the names in a Will do not necessarily equate to the number of children a man/woman has. I can show you a death bed Will of a young father, who forgot to name one 4 yr old son. Why? He was in pain, sick, half dead at the time, his wife was also sick, and pregnant. I think the neighbor men came to take down the Will and get it recorded, and they wrote down the kids names as fast as possible, the best they could, but with both parents laying at death's door, one little boy got forgotten. He still grew up with the other brothers, and when he died his kids were partially raised by his brother, but he was never named in the Will. 2. Never put faith in the term Sr. or Jr. You could find a document for Joel Campbell, and signed by Joel Campbell and witnessed by Joel Campbell, Jr. and 'naturally' jump to the conclusion that they were father and son. Not so at all, untrue! They were grandfather, and grandson, and the father of Joel Campbell, Jr was not named Joel at all. So why do people use these term Jr. if not to mean their father was named the same? They are also used as an identifier of AGE. Let's say I have a community and there are several men, and in the same area named George Campbell. Some are brothers, some cousins, some unrelated, some Uncles. Along comes the census taker, and I tell him my name is George Campbell, Jr. Was my Dad George also? No, he wasn't, but I want the census taker to record that I am the YOUNGER man of the area named George Campbell, not to be confused with my Old Man Uncle of the same name, or my OLDER cousins, also of the same name. The same could be said of Sr., that might mean that this man was the OLDEST man in his area name George Campbell, out of a whole crowd similarly named. Don't ever believe the terms of Jr or Sr, unless you first determine through other mans that you really do know who this person is. In fact, at first you should doubt those terms, and then proceed to rersearch to learn the true identity of that person. I come from a James Thompson , III yet he always said he was James Thompson, Jr. Why, because his father was James Thompson, so he thought he was Jr, but in reality he was #3, he just didn't rmember his grandfather. 3. Never believe a death certificate. The DEAD person did know their own name, and birth date and birth place and Parents names, etc. But the problem is, the DEAD person was not filling out the DEATH certificate. It was some daughter in law, or the cousin, or the old folks home, or the son in law, and those people may, or may not know anything about that person. I have many a death certificate filled out even by the deceased own children, in which all the facts were distorted, convoluted and incorrect. It is sad, shocking, and frustrating to look at an official document, and know that it is incorrect. How do you verify it was wrong? You find the Birth certificate and then you know the details of the death certificate were wrong. The parents are giving the birth record of their child, they know when he was born and where. If it says Iowa, then you know the death certificate which states Maryland is wrong. I spent 6 months looking for a family in Maryland, and I kept wondering why that name was so very uncommon in Maryland, it was because the family was never in Maryland, nor even near to Maryland, but the son who gave his mother's death info to the county officials thought she was born in Maryland. To his mind, anything EAST of California, was called Maryland! So I would always believe a Birth certificate before I ever believed any death certificate. And marriage certificates can be wrong also. It is only as good as the clerks handwriting. You may remember Nancy Campbell on her marriage certificate? She was not Nancy Campbell, her name was Nancy Coffey. She had no Campbell blood in her, she was simply getting married to a Campbell. That mix up took me 3 -4 months to fathom, other researchers kept trying to explain it to me, and I would go round and round, still stupified. Finally I got to grasp the truth of the situation, based on the parents, and their Wills, etc. 4. Never believe a History book which gives the Biography of local persons, and states who their parents are and where they came from. These books were written by writers who would come around and say they would interview folks, and for a fee, they would write up your family story in a Book which would be specific to your county location. My relative knew his mother was Lucinda, but she died when he was a baby, and he was raised by his loving step-mother Nancy. So in the county book he never mentioned his real Mom, only talked about his father and Nancy. Now Nancy was born in NC, his real mom was born in IN, in all the many lifetime of census records for him, he always states his mother's birth place was IN. This means he was truthfully well aware he was not the son of Nancy b. NC, but yet the book says that. So you can never believe a book, even thought the family was interviewed for the book. People lie, people forget, people change facts, etc. In conclusion, don't believe anything until you have studied it this way and that, and have understood the family, and confered with others, and feel comfortable with the facts of the case. Be prepared to find out that there are birth, marriage, and death certificates which are wrong, or partially wrong. Be prepared to find Wills which won't name your relative, yet you know they should be named. Be prepared for anything. Don't get nervous, or worried, this is a fun hobby, we can't make it a science, it is an art, and it won't all fit into a nice neat box. There will always be rough jaggedy edges we need to smooth down. Best regards, Lilly Martin