Jim, I have always looked at these references over in chester and even John and Daniel as being the basis for a system of belief that Isaac of whom we are all investigating, is of this line of Calverts from Armagh. Or even, the Chenowith line, still claiming John is the Lord George's Brother(which I also in my heart believe). Let me posit this to you and Jim calvert, as well as Darrell Elliot and others, for example my own family researchers. We have a descendent of Robert. I am descended from Thomas. We have associated, descendents of John son of Thomas(mine). We have descendents of Hugh Ewing, sons of Thomas(mine). We have all of my Family all over Roberts estate, sale, etc. We have Hiram, Jacob and Isaac posited in the area. We know that this area of PA was orig. part of VA. What reason is there to believe that given family heritage that these Calverts and Colberts, heck, even Covaalt are of Irish calverts? There is no reason to do so. THere is enough historical evidence to indicate the opposite. That does not in itself prove anything but the point is, we are all, or have at some time, presumed that these calverts are this or that. heck. I even told Jim Ray a short time ago that there must be only one Isaac. Then had to turn around a week later and say... well, mebbe not. So: if i ask this question, is it appropo? Jim Ray is descended from Hiram. I from Thomas. Otherss from Ezekiel or John. IS there anyting there that says in your heritage that is truly indicative that you are of the Hollingsworth poppuulation to America? There is nothing in any of my family. They said out of VA or MD or both. Why do we seem to consider otherwise? Why are we so willing to say, well, this must be it when we know of the conflict between gthe Penns and Calverts? Why is it that when the early settlement of this area it is the Calverts and Siverts and clark's that are there but this is not part of the hertiage of the calverts of Armagh? I don't know the answers but I do know this: My family line has no indication of Ireland at all, rather VA MD and England. My family line comes from Thomas, for example, brother of Robert, father of Hiram,, etc. John, his son says from England and that is an 1881 reference. Robert who died leaviing alice cannot speak but there are descendents of two other brothers whho say otherwise. We do have Faney Bulet footstone of Blacksville. We Have Ida Calvert's letter to Thomas Miller Calvert c 1921. We have Alvah Headlee, Dorothy Hennen and John Conklin pointing at John Calvert in the late 1800s. I am willinng to presume there was a reason for all of them to say: why are we looking here? I don't think anyone conclude anything but I do think they knew what they were doing. It was not Irish calverts that is for sure. Even more: There is no indication other than late researchers to say that these calverts of dunkard creek are those of Daniel, John, or Joshua. All evidence that I have seen points to other origins. Hence I do not believe John, of OH Co issue who marry powells, is the same as John Sr nor John Jr as James Calvert observed earlier today. No. I do not have any proof. But Calverts of my line are all over Marshall, Wetzel, Mon and so on, Greene Co PA which is documented to THomas, maps of the era and so on. So in answer: Yes this is all speculation. no I do not have all the answers. Yes I do not believe these calverts are of the line of Joshua and Debrah Harlan. Nor do Harlans researchers of wetzel county nor do they even believe that these Harlan relatives are related to Deborah Harlan who m Joshua Calvert. Evidence? No. my family is in ireland right now trying to demo that my Harlan relatives are English Harlans of Yorkshire. dai "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." Oscar Wilde -- "JAMES R RAY" <JRRAY4@msn.com> wrote: David: According to Gilbert Cope: William Calvert is the son of Thomas Calvert and Sarah Williamson of Upper Providence, Chester Co., PA. His siblings are: Joshua, disowned by Chester mo. mtg. Rebecca, joins Philadelphia mo. mtg. John m. Jane, wid. of Jos. Mercer, dau. of Edward & Sarah Swayne Daniel, disowned for neglecting meetings & leaving the parts Isaac, disowned 1769 for being married by priest Thomas, d. 1781, will proved 1781, leaves hat to Isaac's son Robert Deborah, disowned 1779. ==== CALVERT Mailing List ==== No copyrighted materials are permitted on this list unless by the copyright owner themselves.