Hi All, Interesting discussion as copyright always is in these days. I'm not an expert either but I would think that the information is already out in the public domain since everyone can view it in the cemetery and therefore there is no expectation of privacy. Same thing could be said about the obituaries that are publicized in the newspaper and then listed on the internet. If either of these things were legally wrong I would have thought that sites that have been on the internet for years would have been shut down by now. I've never had a cemetery voice their concerns about taking pictures even when they know I'm doing it for someone else. To the contrary most of them are very helpful. Just food for thought and discussion. It would be interesting to get a legal opinion if there is a copyright lawyer on the list. Val On 21 Jan 2005, at 1:00, Ron Cushman wrote: > There are 2 potential issues with headstones: > a) privacy of living individuals, (and/or deceased) and > b) copyright infringement. > > a) if a surviving spouse has had their info, (date of birth, name) > engraved on the marker, it would be inappropriate to publish such > information on the net (identity theft, etc). In the USA, the > deceased have no rights re privacy. In Canada, personal information > is not public domain until AT LEAST 20 years after death. > > b) the FACTS, (name, date of death) on a headstone cannot be > copyrighted. The decorations, phrasing of expression, overall > appearance can be. The owner of the design would seem to be the > registered owner of the grave/ headstone, or their heirs would be the > ones who MIGHT have a basis of objection, should they care to. > > If asked, most cemeteries would choose to have you NOT take the photo, > so that they can avoid the whole question, even if they are not > directly involved. They don't want to be accused of dereliction of > duties by allowing the photo to be taken for such a purpose. > > All my opinion only (notice me ducking now), not represented as > expert. > > Ron > > On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:04:17 -0500, Patricia Copeland wrote: > > >I have noticed on a number of occasions people volunteering to take > >photos of headstones in cemeteries and then posting them on the net. > >Is there a way to go about doing this? Should the owner of the > >cemetery (i.e. church or municipality) be contacted first? Would > >this site receive complaints from the OGS? Just curious. > > >Pat > > > Ron Cushman > net-genealogy@rogers.com > ON, Canada > > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > Did you print off your sheet when you joined this list ? > Got a branch meeting of the OGS or Historical Society ?...let us know > NO In search of site: http://ocml0.tripod.com VIRUS OR TEST MESSAGES > !!! > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and > the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 > months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

That is interesting and I have always wondered how someone could claim copyright to something that belongs to me as a family member. I think copyright is like copying a newspaper article...if copies are not distributed to more than 10 people in printed form, there is no breaking of the copyright law. I try to stay away from people who claim a copyright, although occasionally I have to use them. If they are given proper credit, you are not breaking the law. I can see asking permission of the cemetery but as far as I am concerned, if you take pictures of your own direct ancestors' or relatives grave sites, you are not breaking a law. Taking pictures for someone else, have an E-mail or letter giving you permission to take the picture or asking for the picture could be a good idea. I had a cousin who had a family member who threatened to sue her if she published the family tree. The information is out there. The gravestones are not under glass or guard. Birth certificates, marriage certificates, Death certificates are available. All you have to do in some cases is state that you are doing it for genealogical purposes and the certificate will be stamped as such. I even had someone question me because of information I had used in our family tree. She thought I was stealing her information. It happened that I had not used her information but something distributed by another cousin to me and it was documented. Just some thoughts. Pat Morano ----- Original Message ----- From: "Val" <vcon@ebtech.net> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Policy on cemetery photos > Hi All, > > Interesting discussion as copyright always is in these days. > > I'm not an expert either but I would think that the information is already > out in > the public domain since everyone can view it in the cemetery and therefore > there is no expectation of privacy. Same thing could be said about the > obituaries that are publicized in the newspaper and then listed on the > internet. > If either of these things were legally wrong I would have thought that > sites > that have been on the internet for years would have been shut down by now. > > I've never had a cemetery voice their concerns about taking pictures even > when they know I'm doing it for someone else. To the contrary most of > them are very helpful. > > Just food for thought and discussion. It would be interesting to get a > legal > opinion if there is a copyright lawyer on the list. > > Val > > On 21 Jan 2005, at 1:00, Ron Cushman wrote: > >> There are 2 potential issues with headstones: >> a) privacy of living individuals, (and/or deceased) and >> b) copyright infringement. >> >> a) if a surviving spouse has had their info, (date of birth, name) >> engraved on the marker, it would be inappropriate to publish such >> information on the net (identity theft, etc). In the USA, the >> deceased have no rights re privacy. In Canada, personal information >> is not public domain until AT LEAST 20 years after death. >> >> b) the FACTS, (name, date of death) on a headstone cannot be >> copyrighted. The decorations, phrasing of expression, overall >> appearance can be. The owner of the design would seem to be the >> registered owner of the grave/ headstone, or their heirs would be the >> ones who MIGHT have a basis of objection, should they care to. >> >> If asked, most cemeteries would choose to have you NOT take the photo, >> so that they can avoid the whole question, even if they are not >> directly involved. They don't want to be accused of dereliction of >> duties by allowing the photo to be taken for such a purpose. >> >> All my opinion only (notice me ducking now), not represented as >> expert. >> >> Ron >> >> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:04:17 -0500, Patricia Copeland wrote: >> >> >I have noticed on a number of occasions people volunteering to take >> >photos of headstones in cemeteries and then posting them on the net. >> >Is there a way to go about doing this? Should the owner of the >> >cemetery (i.e. church or municipality) be contacted first? Would >> >this site receive complaints from the OGS? Just curious. >> >> >Pat >> >> >> Ron Cushman >> net-genealogy@rogers.com >> ON, Canada >> >> >> >> >> ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== >> Did you print off your sheet when you joined this list ? >> Got a branch meeting of the OGS or Historical Society ?...let us know >> NO In search of site: http://ocml0.tripod.com VIRUS OR TEST MESSAGES >> !!! >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and >> the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 >> months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >> >> > > ______________________________