Donald Ray Watson As appears on the Canadian Wartime website: Watson, Donald Gray, B110671, died on October 12, 1944 at the age of 23. Royal Regiment of Canada RCIC, son of Earl David and Mary Ann Watson of Hunta. Buried at Berge.OP.Zoom Canadian War Cemetery, Netherlands, (2.C.4) As appears in the Northland Post, November 16, 1944 Donald Watson killed in action in Holland. Word was received by Mr. and Mrs. R. Watson, of Hunta, that their son, Cpl Donald Grey Watson, Royal Regiment of Canada, had been killed in action on October 13th. He had been engaged in fighting in Holland. Born at Forest, Ontario twenty-three years ago. Donald was brought North as a child, and received his public school education at Hunta. He enlisted in April 1942, going overseas in December of that year. A brother, Warrant Officer David Watson, who went overseas about the same time, is a prisoner of war in Germany. He was captured just a year ago, November 18, 1943. Surviving are the parents, the brother David, and other brother Jack at home, and six sisters.

David Wesley Hambly Private B/155349 1st Battalion, Black Watch of Canada (Highland Regiment) Royal Canadian Infantry Corps died at age 32, July 28, 1944, Missing in Action in France. Named on the Bayeux Memorial. Island Belwood Fish Private 441647 Saskatchewan Regiment of the Canadian Infantry, Unit 28 died at age 26, September 15, 1916, Killed in Action. Burial: Vimy Memorial France

JOHN KEMLO Private 241010, 4/5th (Angus & Dundee) Battalion (Territorial Force), Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) Killed in action on Thursday, 27th September 1917. Age 19. Born at Montrose and enlisted at Brechin. Son of James Kemlo, of 2 Wellington Park, Montrose, and the late Betsy Kemlo. ZANTVOORDE BRITISH CEMETERY Buried in Belgium, Zandvoorde British Cemetery, Plot 6, Row L, Grave 6 Cemetery is 8 Km south-east of Ieper (Ypres) near the village of Zonnebeke, West Flanders. Name is recorded in the Edinburgh Castle records in Scotland John falsified his birth records in order to get accepted into the Black Watch. Even went outside his local community of Montrose to enlist so the recruitment officer would not know him, his family, nor his age. Officially recorded as being 19 when he died, he was reported to be only 17. (Still looking for his official birth certificate) (Whatever age, he was too young to died). Killed in the action known as the 3rd Battle of Ypres during a counter attack by the Germans. He was fighting along side the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Lest We Forget David Kemlo

I am looking at pictures of a handsome young man in his Black Watch uniform - Pvt Neil Roy McLean who served in WWI in France - and his favorite nephew, John Gardiner Hart who was a 90th General Hospital pharmacist in the US Army in England, France and the Rhineland during WWII. Also my son, Mark Gardiner Wilson who served in the US Coast Guard during peace time.

Today November 11 th month, 11th day and the 11th hour we take time to honour those lost in past conflicts. I heard this poem on the radio today and would like to share it. "The Box" Once upon a time, in the land of Hush-A-Bye, Around about the wondrous days of yore, They came across a kind of box Bound up with chains and locked with locks And labeled "Kindly do not touch; it's war." A decree was issued round about, and all with a flourish and a shout And a gaily colored mascot tripping lightly on before. Don't fiddle with this deadly box,Or break the chains, or pick the locks. And please don't ever play about with war. The children understood. Children happen to be good And they were just as good around the time of yore. They didn't try to pick the locks Or break into that deadly box. They never tried to play about with war. Mommies didn't either; sisters, aunts, grannies neither 'Cause they were quiet, and sweet, and pretty In those wondrous days of yore. Well, very much the same as now, And not the ones to blame somehow For opening up that deadly box of war. But someone did. Someone battered in the lid And spilled the insides out across the floor. A kind of bouncy, bumpy ball made up of guns and flags And all the tears, and horror, and death that comes with war. It bounced right out and went bashing all about, Bumping into everything in store.And what was sad and most unfair Was that it didn't really seem to care Much who it bumped, or why, or what, or for. It bumped the children mainly. And I'll tell you this quite plainly, It bumps them every day and more, and more, And leaves them dead, and burned, and dying Thousands of them sick and crying. 'Cause when it bumps, it's really very sore. Now there's a way to stop the ball. It isn't difficult at all. All it takes is wisdom, and I'm absolutely sure That we can get it back into the box,And bind the chains, and lock the locks. But no one seems to want to save the children anymore. Well, that's the way it all appears, 'cause it's been bouncing round for years and years In spite of all the wisdom wizzed since those wondrous days of yore And the time they came across the box, Bound up with chains and locked with locks, And labeled "Kindly do not touch; it's war." by---Lascelles Abercrombie I invited everyone who wish to send in the name of a loved one ( for today only) who served their county and died in a past conflict. Please state their name, date of death, where they died. Please use the subject line " We will remember them" Sheila

Frank Manley Jackson, 425696, Private, 29th BN Canadian Inf. died 22nd July 1916, age 28 buried at Reninghelst New Military Cemetery, Belgium Frank was the half brother of my mother Eva Mildred Jackson. Mary Swank

Hi, I have heard of this type of practice in Europe where they don't have much room but didn't know it was happening in Canada. My impression of perpetual care is that we pay the cemeteries a designated amount of money up front and that money is invested and the care is carried on from the earnings of the investment. If invested properly and increases in the cost of perpetual care put in place as needed you would think that unless the cemetery is abandoned this could go on indefinitely. I had never heard of plots 12 feet deep. I was responsible for the burial of my parents in Hamilton and they had purchased what they thought was a 4 person family plot. My father died in 1994 and my mother in 1999. When I made arrangements for my mother I was told that if I wanted her buried at a depth of 8 ft then someone could be buried above at 6 ft. making the lot big enough for 8 people. I wish they had given me this information when my father was buried but because I wasn't he was buried at a depth of 6 ft. As it stands now since my mother purchased the plot and she thought the four of us would be buried in a line I have respected her wishes and only 4 will be 6 ft. under. You have to be a lawyer and know all the correct questions to ask before making this decisions. I've advised at least 5 relatives to enquire about this when someone has died and to my knowledge non of them had the information volunteered to them. Also at one time I didn't think that I would be buried in this plot but circumstances changed and thank heavens it happened before my mother passed because I was told that if she didn't sign for me to use the remaining spot there was a good chance that it would remain empty even though I was her only other child, held her Power of Attorney while she was living, and was Executor for her Will. They never refused to take my money for the arrangements though. All this discussion makes me wonder if 50 or 75 years from now they will turn us all over and start again. Val On 8 Nov 2004, at 19:40, Marc Wigle wrote: > Hi group - I recently became a director for our cemetery in Aylmer, > Quebec. Not having any experience in this matter, I decided to ask the > cemetery's maintenance guy tonight about the selling of stones. He > looked at me as if I had rocks in my head. His response absolutely > floored me. In our area, our cemetery is apparently the only one that > has perpetual care which he describes as being for the life of the > cemetery. According to him, ALL of the others operate on a lease basis > in that you lease a plot for 30 years and then after 30 years you or > whoever is responsible for the plot is asked to lease it again. If you > do not or you can't be contacted, the plot is re-leased. The stone is > removed, sold and ground down so that it can be re-used. There is a RC > cemetery not far from me that was founded in 1826 and there are no > stones from the 1800's. There is a pile of concrete at the back of the > cemetery from the bases of the plots that have recently been removed > making them available for resale. I asked him how deep the plots are > and he responded 12 feet so that another coffin can be put on top of > it later at the end of the first lease. Now this part really disgusts > me... I asked him what happens in 60 years when the two people's > leases have run out. Let's just say that no one is allowed to have a > concrete or steel casing around their coffin. > > I'm 45 years old but I feel like I was born yesterday after hearing > this... I know that we do things a little differently over here in the > belle province but this really bothers me. > > Marc > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "GEN" <gendreamer@wightman.ca> > To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:45 AM > Subject: [ON-CEM] Selling monuments > > > > > > In response to note from the Gardening magazine reply. > > If was in fact, from a monument dealer, then no harm was done. That > > means > it > > never got to the place it was to go or their was a mistake on the > > stone. But is also states that the monument dealer and caretaker are > > the same. A sort of conflict of interest. Would you not agree? I > > know of this happening....the dealer and caretaker the same working > > just outside of the cemetery grounds. Make you wonder how they can > > separate one from the other. The only thing left to do as to ask the > > name of the dealer. If the writer of the story could answer this > > one question then everyone would be happy. > . > > We need to hear both sides of the story. > > > > Sheila > > > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > > > > READ the taglines! > > Before you ask for a lookup ...check > > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians/ > > > > ============================== > > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and > > the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 > > months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > FIELD OF STONES: > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~clifford/index.htm Do you have > photos you like to submit ? Have you seen this website Save our > cemeteries! > > ============================== > Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports > ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn > more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx > >

Jody .. I would strongly suggest that you contact a lawyer regarding both the cemetery plot and your grandmother's Will. Usually the initial meeting with a lawyer, during which generalities are discussed, is not 'on the clock'. Should you decide to utilize his/her services you will then be charged for ensuing meetings and telephone-given advice. The people you have been in contact with do not seem to have been all that helpful. You really do need a professional legal opinion on these matters. You may be asked by the lawyer, because a new Will was drawn up just six weeks prior to her demise, what was your grandmother's health, mental capabilities. Although the 'ownership' of the plot in which your grandfather is interred seems to be uncertain, or not, depending on who claims, because no specific direction was given in your grandmother's Will, it may still remain to the direct family. That is, the related through bloodline family. There are multi-thousands, if not millions of situations where cemetery plots have been passed down and remained in the direct-line families for many generations, in spite of the fact that widows and widowers may have subsequently remarried. It seems to have been a widely understood and accepted "gentleman's agreement" in most cases, ( or assumed in English Common Law) with ownership remaining to the direct family line of the original owner. . In circumstances where a large estate was involved it would have been most likely that a lawyer's services was contracted, an all-encompassing Will was drawn and all the sticky details were dealt with. . Look for a "Family Law" specialist. James .

I can't imagine that anyone would have a problem with this practice. He's probably done everything that he can to get paid and this is the last resort. I'm sure that if the buyer had given him post-dated cheques for a reasonable amount he wouldn't have repossessed the stone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty Hughson" <tippytoe@goeaston.net> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:56 PM Subject: [ON-CEM] CEMETERY MONUMENTS > Did you know that monument companies will repossess gravestones if the stone > is not paid for. This happens even if the stone has been engraved and set > in the graveyard. My husband and I went to a company to see about > purchasing a gravestone for a member of our family. We saw several stones > placed along a fence - they were all engraved with names and dates. When we > questioned the owner of the monument company he explained that the stones > were not paid for therefore he had no choice but to repossess them even > though he could not reuse them. His explanation was that if the stones were > not paid for and he did not repossess them the families would tell others > not to bother to pay as the company would not do anything about it and he > would lose money and possibly his business. > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > > READ the taglines! > Before you ask for a lookup ...check > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians/ > > ============================== > New! OneWorldTree. Building Trees. Connecting Families. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13970/rd.ashx > >

Did you know that monument companies will repossess gravestones if the stone is not paid for. This happens even if the stone has been engraved and set in the graveyard. My husband and I went to a company to see about purchasing a gravestone for a member of our family. We saw several stones placed along a fence - they were all engraved with names and dates. When we questioned the owner of the monument company he explained that the stones were not paid for therefore he had no choice but to repossess them even though he could not reuse them. His explanation was that if the stones were not paid for and he did not repossess them the families would tell others not to bother to pay as the company would not do anything about it and he would lose money and possibly his business.

Hi group - I recently became a director for our cemetery in Aylmer, Quebec. Not having any experience in this matter, I decided to ask the cemetery's maintenance guy tonight about the selling of stones. He looked at me as if I had rocks in my head. His response absolutely floored me. In our area, our cemetery is apparently the only one that has perpetual care which he describes as being for the life of the cemetery. According to him, ALL of the others operate on a lease basis in that you lease a plot for 30 years and then after 30 years you or whoever is responsible for the plot is asked to lease it again. If you do not or you can't be contacted, the plot is re-leased. The stone is removed, sold and ground down so that it can be re-used. There is a RC cemetery not far from me that was founded in 1826 and there are no stones from the 1800's. There is a pile of concrete at the back of the cemetery from the bases of the plots that have recently been removed making them available for resale. I asked him how deep the plots are and he responded 12 feet so that another coffin can be put on top of it later at the end of the first lease. Now this part really disgusts me... I asked him what happens in 60 years when the two people's leases have run out. Let's just say that no one is allowed to have a concrete or steel casing around their coffin. I'm 45 years old but I feel like I was born yesterday after hearing this... I know that we do things a little differently over here in the belle province but this really bothers me. Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "GEN" <gendreamer@wightman.ca> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:45 AM Subject: [ON-CEM] Selling monuments > > In response to note from the Gardening magazine reply. > If was in fact, from a monument dealer, then no harm was done. That means it > never got to the place it was to go or their was a mistake on the stone. > But is also states that the monument dealer and caretaker are the same. A > sort of conflict of interest. > Would you not agree? > I know of this happening....the dealer and caretaker the same working just > outside of the cemetery grounds. > Make you wonder how they can separate one from the other. > The only thing left to do as to ask the name of the dealer. If the writer > of the story could answer this one question then everyone would be happy. . > We need to hear both sides of the story. > > Sheila > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > > READ the taglines! > Before you ask for a lookup ...check > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians/ > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Canadian Gardening magazine has informed me that they have forwarded my letters of concern to the owner of the garden and hopefully he will contact me regarding the tombstone that he purchased. If he does, I hope to find out if there is anything engraved on the stone and where he purchased it. Mary L.

Hi List, My grandparents bought a large plot (6-8). My grandparents divorced in the 1970's. My grandfather remarried in the late 1970's and died in 1980. His 2nd wife which we knew and was part of the family, distant over the last few years, passed away about 2 years ago. Our side of the family was not told until a halfhour after the service. She is buried there. My grandmother is still alive and considered the owner. I am my grandmother's power of attorney. My Aunt & Uncle wish to be buried in the plot. As power of attorney I simply had to do a letter to the Township, as they manage the cemetery. My grandmother will be 99 in a little over a month. She wants to be cremated and buried with her father & brother in Paris, Ontario. I don't know if this is possible. Heather in Orillia Check http://www.rootsweb.com/~onvsr/ For Ontario Birth, Marriages & Deaths

Interestingly enough, I am currently faced with this problem. I will try to explain the best I can. My grandparents bought a double plot in Hamilton, Ontario. My grandfather died in 1973. My grandmother would then be the interment right holder/owner. She remarried, but died very soon after, so we are trying to figure out who now owns the interment rights to this plot. The problem is that the gravestone has both of my grandparents names/birthdates on it, but since my grandmother had remarried, her new husband buried her in his hometown (in a plot that he had for himself and his many wives, way far up in Northern Ontario). Her new husband inherited ALL of her estate. We were in shock, as this was not what we thought was in her will. We knew of a will that included her two sons, AND the new husband's son. Apparently, there was a new will done up on Christmas Eve only 6 weeks before she passed away. (This new will excluded her own 2 sons, and this 'stranger' had inherited ALL of what my grandfather had worked so hard for all of his life.) .... sorry if this is getting confusing...... Anyways, it appears though that he also inherited the rights to the plot in Hamilton that my grandfather is buried in. (It was a double plot and sold as one unit, so cannot be resold.) He likely was never aware that he was the 'proud new owner' of these interment rights.... Grandma's new husband has since passed away, and now it appears that his son has inherited all of my grandparents estate and his own father's estate..... (Lucky guy!!!) AND the plot in Hamilton, that my grandfather is buried in. (The stone still has an empty spot where her death date was to be inscribed. This is why this can of worms was opened up. I decided that since she was gone since the 70's, maybe we could just have her death date put on the stone.... NOT!!!!) There has been no activity or contact from the 'new husband's son' and I am sure he likely doesn't even know that he may have inherited it since they live very far away up North. It has been 31 years since the cemetery has had any contact dealing with this plot/gravestone. I recently looked into this since my own father is getting up there in age. We wanted to be able to use the extra plot for him, but was told by the cemetery that we must have the son of my grandmother's 2nd husband tranfer the interment rights BACK to our family since he is the current owner. (I was shocked to think that a complete stranger is now the owner and we have no rights!!!) Since this was so bizarre, I decided to research it..... (no lawyers involved at present), and this is what I have found: Interment rights will descend to his or her heirs according to the laws of descent…AND Interment rights are usually given special status under the law and it is necessary to specifically provide in a will for the transfer of the interment right. This result was based on the common law that an interment right is considered essentially to be a family heritage, not likely to be inventoried with a decedent's assets or regarded as property to pass by the will. (My grandmother's new will did not specifically include that it be willed to her new husband. Considering this, and in order to protect the family heritage, one would assume/hope that it would remain with our family.....this is how I understand what I have read.) Further, since the residuary (remainder) portion of an estate could go to someone other than the family, (which in this case, it went to her new husband - a stranger to our family), it would defeat the purpose to allow that result. The ownership of the interment right will only pass to the next generation "AS IF THE OWNER HAD DIED INTESTATE (without a will) UNLESS SPECIFICALLY TRANSFERRED BY THE OWNER by will or gift" (and it wasn't transferred to him anywhere on paper.) The basis all of this is specifically to ensure by way of rights, to protect the family heritage and to insure the blood heirs and descendants of the original owner will have the right to use any available spaces. I have been in contact with the Ministry (Cemetery Regulations Dept.) regarding this issue, and the lady I spoke with consulted with the Registrar... Apparently there is nothing in place that would refer to any “Laws of Descent” to preserve the family heritage, so we are basically out of luck.... End result is, "My grandmother's second husband's son, a complete stranger to our family, now owns interment rights to the plot my grandfather is buried in.... and where my grandmother was supposed to be buried, but is buried elsewhere..... We have no rights unless he legally transfers them to our family...." Does anyone have any concrete information, or know of anyone that I could contact about this??? I think it's totally ridiculous that interment rights are owned by a stranger who doesn't even know he owns it, nor would he likely have any reason to want to bury a stranger beside my grandfather..... I would really like to refrain from pursuing this with a lawyer, if at all possible.... Also, pertaining to the 'selling or buying' of plots, this is what I found in some FAQ's.... When I buy a plot, do I own the land? No. What you own is the right to determine who may be buried in your lot. These rights are called "interment rights". The land remains the property, and the responsibility, of the cemetery. Can I sell my plot to someone else? No. Provincial law prohibits the private resale of interment rights. However, should you choose not to use your interment rights, the cemetery will be pleased to buy them back from you, in accordance with provincial law, or you may transfer your interment rights to a third party through the cemetery office. Thanks for your time and to all who may respond..... J*O*D*Y* P.S. Ellen - Might your Genealogical Group's President have any information you could forward to me about this?? Your post below actually prompted me to post my query..... Thanks :-) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: SELLING TOMBSTONES > Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:08:43 -0500 > From: "Ellen Murray" <ellen.murray@sympatico.ca> > To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com > > Am passing this on “third party” but the President of our Genealogical Group > recently went through question of ownership re; his Grt. Grandfathers plot. > The lawyer told him that ownership follows the heir to the estate down the > line. I would like to know which cemetery in Simcoe is selling the stones > and do they have to advertise publicly before doing so. > Ellen

Hello JP, You have a very interesting situation here. Perhaps you could send a friendly letter to your grandmother's second husband's son (on a lawyer's letterhead) to confirm that he is the new owner. At the same time, you could ask him if he would like to assume financial responsibility for the perpetual upkeep of the cemetery plot or if he would prefer to transfer the rights to you. You don't have to say that there are or will be actual costs---just ask if he would like to pay them should they arise. My guess is that he would be happy to relieve himself of that responsibility. It's just a thought. Al -----Original Message----- From: JP [mailto:latta-poljanski@sympatico.ca] Sent: 08 November, 2004 11:00 To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ON-CEM] Selling cemetery plots - Transfer of interment rights Interestingly enough, I am currently faced with this problem. I will try to explain the best I can. My grandparents bought a double plot in Hamilton, Ontario. My grandfather died in 1973. My grandmother would then be the interment right holder/owner. She remarried, but died very soon after, so we are trying to figure out who now owns the interment rights to this plot. The problem is that the gravestone has both of my grandparents names/birthdates on it, but since my grandmother had remarried, her new husband buried her in his hometown (in a plot that he had for himself and his many wives, way far up in Northern Ontario). Her new husband inherited ALL of her estate. We were in shock, as this was not what we thought was in her will. We knew of a will that included her two sons, AND the new husband's son. Apparently, there was a new will done up on Christmas Eve only 6 weeks before she passed away. (This new will excluded her own 2 sons, and this 'stranger' had inherited ALL of what my grandfather had worked so hard for all of his life.) .... sorry if this is getting confusing...... Anyways, it appears though that he also inherited the rights to the plot in Hamilton that my grandfather is buried in. (It was a double plot and sold as one unit, so cannot be resold.) He likely was never aware that he was the 'proud new owner' of these interment rights.... Grandma's new husband has since passed away, and now it appears that his son has inherited all of my grandparents estate and his own father's estate..... (Lucky guy!!!) AND the plot in Hamilton, that my grandfather is buried in. (The stone still has an empty spot where her death date was to be inscribed. This is why this can of worms was opened up. I decided that since she was gone since the 70's, maybe we could just have her death date put on the stone.... NOT!!!!) There has been no activity or contact from the 'new husband's son' and I am sure he likely doesn't even know that he may have inherited it since they live very far away up North. It has been 31 years since the cemetery has had any contact dealing with this plot/gravestone. I recently looked into this since my own father is getting up there in age. We wanted to be able to use the extra plot for him, but was told by the cemetery that we must have the son of my grandmother's 2nd husband tranfer the interment rights BACK to our family since he is the current owner. (I was shocked to think that a complete stranger is now the owner and we have no rights!!!) Since this was so bizarre, I decided to research it..... (no lawyers involved at present), and this is what I have found: Interment rights will descend to his or her heirs according to the laws of descent...AND Interment rights are usually given special status under the law and it is necessary to specifically provide in a will for the transfer of the interment right. This result was based on the common law that an interment right is considered essentially to be a family heritage, not likely to be inventoried with a decedent's assets or regarded as property to pass by the will. (My grandmother's new will did not specifically include that it be willed to her new husband. Considering this, and in order to protect the family heritage, one would assume/hope that it would remain with our family.....this is how I understand what I have read.) Further, since the residuary (remainder) portion of an estate could go to someone other than the family, (which in this case, it went to her new husband - a stranger to our family), it would defeat the purpose to allow that result. The ownership of the interment right will only pass to the next generation "AS IF THE OWNER HAD DIED INTESTATE (without a will) UNLESS SPECIFICALLY TRANSFERRED BY THE OWNER by will or gift" (and it wasn't transferred to him anywhere on paper.) The basis all of this is specifically to ensure by way of rights, to protect the family heritage and to insure the blood heirs and descendants of the original owner will have the right to use any available spaces. I have been in contact with the Ministry (Cemetery Regulations Dept.) regarding this issue, and the lady I spoke with consulted with the Registrar... Apparently there is nothing in place that would refer to any "Laws of Descent" to preserve the family heritage, so we are basically out of luck.... End result is, "My grandmother's second husband's son, a complete stranger to our family, now owns interment rights to the plot my grandfather is buried in.... and where my grandmother was supposed to be buried, but is buried elsewhere..... We have no rights unless he legally transfers them to our family...." Does anyone have any concrete information, or know of anyone that I could contact about this??? I think it's totally ridiculous that interment rights are owned by a stranger who doesn't even know he owns it, nor would he likely have any reason to want to bury a stranger beside my grandfather..... I would really like to refrain from pursuing this with a lawyer, if at all possible.... Also, pertaining to the 'selling or buying' of plots, this is what I found in some FAQ's.... When I buy a plot, do I own the land? No. What you own is the right to determine who may be buried in your lot. These rights are called "interment rights". The land remains the property, and the responsibility, of the cemetery. Can I sell my plot to someone else? No. Provincial law prohibits the private resale of interment rights. However, should you choose not to use your interment rights, the cemetery will be pleased to buy them back from you, in accordance with provincial law, or you may transfer your interment rights to a third party through the cemetery office. Thanks for your time and to all who may respond..... J*O*D*Y* P.S. Ellen - Might your Genealogical Group's President have any information you could forward to me about this?? Your post below actually prompted me to post my query..... Thanks :-) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: SELLING TOMBSTONES > Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:08:43 -0500 > From: "Ellen Murray" <ellen.murray@sympatico.ca> > To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com > > Am passing this on "third party" but the President of our Genealogical Group > recently went through question of ownership re; his Grt. Grandfathers plot. > The lawyer told him that ownership follows the heir to the estate down the > line. I would like to know which cemetery in Simcoe is selling the stones > and do they have to advertise publicly before doing so. > Ellen ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== To UnSUBSCRIBE: to CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L-request@rootsweb.com the word unsubscribe in the subject and body. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Hi Sheila. These days the monument dealer puts a sticker/plaque etc. on the monuments. I saw at the Old Catholic Cemetery here in Orillia, the monument dealer would actually engrave their name and town on the stone. There is one in the cemetery that was has the name (can't remember it) but it was from Newmarket. Maybe there is a name engraved. I found them in the lower right hand corner. Heather in Orillia Check http://www.rootsweb.com/~onvsr/ For Ontario Birth, Marriages & Deaths -----Original Message----- From: GEN [mailto:gendreamer@wightman.ca] Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:46 AM To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ON-CEM] Selling monuments In response to note from the Gardening magazine reply. If was in fact, from a monument dealer, then no harm was done. That means it never got to the place it was to go or their was a mistake on the stone. But is also states that the monument dealer and caretaker are the same. A sort of conflict of interest. Would you not agree? I know of this happening....the dealer and caretaker the same working just outside of the cemetery grounds. Make you wonder how they can separate one from the other. The only thing left to do as to ask the name of the dealer. If the writer of the story could answer this one question then everyone would be happy. . We need to hear both sides of the story. Sheila ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== READ the taglines! Before you ask for a lookup ...check http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians/ ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

In response to note from the Gardening magazine reply. If was in fact, from a monument dealer, then no harm was done. That means it never got to the place it was to go or their was a mistake on the stone. But is also states that the monument dealer and caretaker are the same. A sort of conflict of interest. Would you not agree? I know of this happening....the dealer and caretaker the same working just outside of the cemetery grounds. Make you wonder how they can separate one from the other. The only thing left to do as to ask the name of the dealer. If the writer of the story could answer this one question then everyone would be happy. . We need to hear both sides of the story. Sheila

I wrote to Canadian Gardening magazine this morning and just received this response. In my opinion, the issue is not addressed. While Mr. Walker may have purchased the stone from the grounds of the monument maker, the tombstone must have originally been in the cemetery and had been removed by the graveyard custodian. I have been looking over the Ontario Cemeteries Act and it includes the following: Repairing markers 48. If a marker in a cemetery presents a risk to public safety because it is unstable, the owner of the cemetery shall do whatever is necessary by way of repairing, resetting or laying down the marker so as to remove the risk. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.4, s. 48. I have also written to the Norfolk County Genealogy Society. My request to Canadian Gardening magazine for the name of the cemetery or contact info for Mr Walker has gone unanswered as you can see below. Mary L. ----- Forwarded message from Sandra MacGregor <macgregor@canadiangardening.com> ----- Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:16:03 -0500 From: Sandra MacGregor <macgregor@canadiangardening.com> Reply-To: Sandra MacGregor <macgregor@canadiangardening.com> Subject: Re: Magazine Article To: mleuniss@uoguelph.ca Hello Actually, we have been getting quite a few letters regarding the tombstone and we will be addressing the issue in our March edition. We asked Mr. Walker about it and he clarified matters; apparently the stone had been on the grounds of a monument stone cutter and graveyard custodian, and it was not directly from a cemetery. Thank you for writing with your concerns Regards, -- Sandra MacGregor, Assistant Editor Canadian Gardening magazine 340 Ferrier St., Ste. 210 Markham, Ont., L3R 2Z5 telephone: 905/475-8440, ext. 122 fax: 905/475-9246 ----- End forwarded message -----

Graveyard of the Pacific The miles of coastline stretching across the Pacific side of Vancouver Island have long been known in the nautical community as some of the deadliest in the world. This treacherous area also known as The Graveyard of the Pacific, is an oceanic cemetery to the literally thousands of vessels, from large warships and passenger ferries to lumber barges and small tugs, that have crashed and sunk along its rocky coast. Despite its morbid leanings, this Virtual Museum of Canada website is a lot of fun, and also provides insight into an interesting niche of nautical history. There is an interactive timeline, a section dedicated to real-life tales of hope and courage in the face of tragedy, and even an online newspaper called the Shipwreck Times that uses historical data, old interviews, journal entries and official records to 're-write' articles about famous shipwrecks. http://www.pacificshipwrecks.ca/english/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

Hi Mary, I have 4 Muirs listed in my database but none of the names match with yours but they were from Wiarton. I also have about 8 Crumps in my database, maybe you should check out the genealogy section of my website to see if you can see anything familiar. Regards Wayne Cook http://www.waynecook.com (A History Television Approved Site) and your Host for the Simcoe County Genweb page at http://www.waynecook.com/simcoe.shtml Ontario, Canada and your Host for the Parry Sound Muskoka Genweb site at http://www.waynecook.com/parrysound.html 1. Historic Plaques of Ontario 1,384 Plaques online http://www.waynecook.com 2. The Canadian Query Boards at http://www.waynecook.com/bulletin.html 3. The Quotations of Dahn Batchelor at http://www.waynecook.com/dahns.html ----- Original Message ----- From: <Wseone56@aol.com> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:32 AM Subject: [ON-CEM] Re: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-D Digest V04 #230 > > > My Ancestor that I would like to have anyone who can help me with searching > the CA-ONT-CEMETARIES for my Great Grandfather on the MUIR side the Maternal, > Robert MUIR and Helen Catherine Muir(not positive about the Great-grandmothers > name. They were listed in the various records as living in Wiarton, Ontario, > Canada. > > Thank you in advance. > > sincerely, Mary Alice CRUMP/MUIR/Christiansen > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians (lookups ) http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~clifford/index.htm ( photos) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~janjones/ (view obits online) > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >