Taken from the" Landscapes of Memories". A highly recognized government of Ontario booklet on repairing[tombstones] stones.. by Tamara Anson-Cartwright. Page 15 Column 1 paragraph 4 " It is important to be sure about the motives of cleaning stone. Cleaning is expensive and can cause damage, if is not carried out with appropriate expertise. " Column 2 paragraph 2 " .....it is best to hire only skilled stone masons and conservators with extensive professional and expertise in this specific area." There is only one other person ( in my opinion) who is expert other than , the author of " Landscapes of Memories " . That person , whose view I greatly respect is Bill Gilchrist. If Bill would like to give his opinion to this list , he is most welcomed. Other than Bill's anticipated e-mail, this subject is now closed. Thank-you to all members for your co-operation on this matter. Sheila List Mom

We have gone down this road before. I fully support Ron Cushman on his views. The fact that he want to a monument dealers and got their EXPERT advise is what it is all about. If the expert say don't do it, that is all we need know. I am always open to another point of view, but when that view results in the possible damage to a stone, then I am against it. So folks, that is it, now more on this subject. Not happy with this..........you can do two things. Contact me off list shill@swightman.ca or two report me to the rootsweb.com mailing list regulators. Anyone who continues this subject will receive a warning from me or if they persist I will unsubscribe them right away. Ok, lets get onto another topic. Sheila List mom

LIST ADMIN - this will be my last posting on this matter, I ask your tolerance for this one. Any further discussion, please send privately. Here is a simple experiment, that anyone with shaving cream can do (I wear a beard, so have none). I suggest that the following be done on a glass bathroom mirror. If residue exists on a smooth mirror, many times more will be left on porous rocks, engraving indentations, etc. 1) spread shaving cream on ONLY the bottom half of the mirror, smearing it on well 2)spray the whole mirror with a plant sprayer, to emulate rain (not direct pressure like a pressure washer) If you think that it takes a while to wash it away on vertical glass, how well would rain do on very porous rock? QESTION 1: how well does it wash away? 3) wipe the shaving cream off with a dry paper towel, WITHOUT touching the area with no shaving cream. 4) spray the whole mirror with water again QUESTION 2: Is there a difference in how the water beads up on the 2 halves, that never had shaving cream, and that used to? 5) steam up the bathroom with a bath or shower QUESTION 3: Is there a difference in how the mirror steams up, between the 2 halves? If you notice ANY DIFFERENCE with question 2 or 3, what caused the difference, if it is not residue? In the interest of having markers that survive for following generations, I highly recommend following the same guiding principal as physicians - " Do No Harm". If in DOUBT, DON'T!! We cannot protect the markers from wind erosion, water erosion from rain, but let's do what we can, by NOT adding additional threats. Ron On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:16:30 -0800 (PST), Brock Way wrote: >The idea that shaving cream leaves a residue is >nothing more than opinion. There are ways to >unambiguously scientifically demonstrate the presence >of residue, none of which have ever been done. I have >seen many claims made which hold that shaving cream >harms tombstones - all of them nothing more than >opinion. >Brock Way >Ron Cushman wrote: >Soaps, shaving cream can leave a residue. The residue >may combine with atmospheric polutants to form >solvents. At very least, it provides a favourable >site for biologic entities like lichens, or moss, to >take hold and accelerate their destructive >effects. > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! >http://my.yahoo.com > >==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== >READ the taglines! >Before you ask for a lookup ...check >http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians/ >In search of site: http://ocml0.tripod.com/ >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx Ron Cushman net-genealogy@rogers.com ON, Canada

What would a monument dealer know about the chemical weathering processes and the chromatographic properties of shaving cream? They have no training in either organic chemistry or geology, so how are they experts? This is like asking Einstein who is going to win the super bowl. He is an expert, unfortunately not on football, though. Monuments dealers may be experts, but not on anything having to do with the effects of shaving cream on tombstones. Let's leave those issues to people who are actually trained in the field that is relevant - the people who publish papers on chemical weathering in the Journal of Chemical Geology, and the like. They are the experts, and when they talk, they are talking from expertise, not opinion. Brock Way __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

I beg similar tolerance as afforded Ron, and for the same reason: I have shaving creamed my sink (made of same material as many tombstones) probably about 5,000 times now. And there is no observable effect. The mirror argument is a terrible red herring. The properties of mirrors make it MORE likely for adherence, not LESS likely. Porosity has nothing to do with it. The property in question is chromatographic, not penetrance. That is the issue. I don't recommend shaving cream for tombstones that are made of mirrors any more than I recommend shaving cream for tombstones that are made from car paint. Let's try to stick with reality though. Brock Way > Here is a simple experiment, that anyone with > shaving cream can do (I wear a beard, so have none). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

The idea that shaving cream leaves a residue is nothing more than opinion. There are ways to unambiguously scientifically demonstrate the presence of residue, none of which have ever been done. I have seen many claims made which hold that shaving cream harms tombstones - all of them nothing more than opinion. Brock Way Ron Cushman wrote: Soaps, shaving cream can leave a residue. The residue may combine with atmospheric polutants to form solvents. At very least, it provides a favourable site for biologic entities like lichens, or moss, to take hold and accelerate their destructive effects. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com

I am looking for the burial site of my great grandmother ISABELLA CRANSTON AMOS. She is last found in the town of Preston in the 1901 census with her daughter Isabelle Amos Strickland Malloy and her family. Isabella is 78 years old at this time. I have lost track of the family past this census. I have found a cemetery listing for Isabella Amos in CROWN cemetery, Wellington, Puslinch WW-4372. I am interested in the inscription to see if it could be my missing Isabella Amos. She was born abt.March 1824. Any help greatly appreciated. Sandy California

PLEASE read the following, before deciding how you will treat grave markers: First, my personal list of DO's and DON'Ts: - DON'T TOUCH a marker, with ANYTHING. Friction from rubbings, or brushing, even with a soft brush, can remove grains from soft markers. - DON'T use any CHEMICALS, not even household preparations. Cleaners can actually dissolve the stone, if the chemistry is right. For EACH different kind of stone, there may be ONE or more safe cleaners. It is unlikely that a single cleaner is safe for all types of minerals/stones. Leave it to chemically trained professionals. Soaps, shaving cream can leave a residue. The residue may combine with atmospheric polutants to form solvents. At very least, it provides a favourable site for biologic entities like lichens, or moss, to take hold and accelerate their destructive effects. - DO take advantage of lighting at very shallow angles. You need to provide strong light, aimed at the stone from a low angle, designed to cast very long shadows from the engravings. This will highlight VERY shallow engravings, even better than shaving cream. I have photographed grave markers after sunset, with tripod, and auxillary lighting, just to control the angle that the main lighting comes at. - DO take a spray bottle of pure, clean water. Preferably rain water, without chlorine, flouride, etc, but that is hard to do. Try taking photos as it is first. If some parts are wet, and others dry, making it uniformly wet may improve things. - DO remember, that the lack of noticeable effect today, does not mean that you have not shortened the life of the marker by generations. Some knowledgible resources mentioned in a previous email by noted professional genealogist J. Brian Gilchrist: "No one has mentioned the technical standards papers produced by the internationally respected Association for Gravestone Studies. Yesterday Ron Cushman mentioned the Anson - Cartwright technical paper produced by the Government of Ontario which is excellent. Richard Collins site "sculptor.org" - is by far the superior site for articles on all aspects of monument cleaning technologies, conservation, maintenance, and non-destructive procedures." I personally was shocked by the advice that Mr. Ross had obtained from his attempts to contact knowledgible professionals (my compliments to Mr. Ross for his efforts). I personally contacted an individual at: A Creber & Son Monument Co 416-261-9393 110 Anaconda Avenue, Scarborough, ON M1L 4M6 (The company name, etc, and following comments attached with permission) - as professionals, they have witnessed destroyed markers, by people attempting to clean with household chemicals, including bleach - don't add anything that can leave a residue (including shaving cream) - don't use any brushes, specially on older markers - leave the cleaning to professionals, with VERY SPECIFIC chemicals. I received an email on the ON-CEM list from Sheila (gendreamer@wightman.ca) with a proposal to create an "Ontario Cemeteries Conservation Group". I would encourage any such group to include in their mandate, the provision of sound advice on how to treat grave markers. On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 09:55:48 -0500, Charles Geo. Ross UE wrote: > I have noticed quite a few grave stones are very hard to read because >of the weather deterioration and moss on the lettering. I did have a problem >with this until I was advised of how to obtain 100 % readable pictures. >I carry a small pocket knife to clean out the moss and a tooth brush to brush >it away. Then I use foam shaving cream sprayed on the stone and spread it with >a squeegee. This leaves the cream only in the carved lettering and looks like new. >Incase your wondering about any damage to the stone, I have checked with two >different grave stone carvers who stated that as long as you don't scrape the >stone removing the moss and the shaving cream will do no damage (men have >used it on their faces for years). To clean stones they use Tide and a bristle >brush (not a wire brush). By the way the shaving cream will dry up and disappear. >I have also told a few Cemeteries that take pictures upon request and charge a >fee, and they are now using this method with great success. >Try it and you'll be surprised how great it works. >Above for your information................... >Loyally, >Chuck Ron Cushman net-genealogy@rogers.com ON, Canada

Hello All; I have noticed quite a few grave stones are very hard to read because of the weather deterioration and moss on the lettering. I did have a problem with this until I was advised of how to obtain 100 % readable pictures. I carry a small pocket knife to clean out the moss and a tooth brush to brush it away. Then I use foam shaving cream sprayed on the stone and spread it with a squeegee. This leaves the cream only in the carved lettering and looks like new. Incase your wondering about any damage to the stone, I have checked with two different grave stone carvers who stated that as long as you don't scrape the stone removing the moss and the shaving cream will do no damage (men have used it on their faces for years). To clean stones they use Tide and a bristle brush (not a wire brush). By the way the shaving cream will dry up and disappear. I have also told a few Cemeteries that take pictures upon request and charge a fee, and they are now using this method with great success. Try it and you'll be surprised how great it works. Above for your information................... Loyally, Chuck

Brian, love what you are doing, maybe one day I will get lucky and find one of mine. Thank you for all the work you put into this. Am in midst of attempting to photograph all of Victoria Co. and know how much effort you put into helping us find our lost souls. Ellen -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005

Hi Folks Just to keep you all up to date I have put a few more gravestone pics for Lakview Cemetery in Midland Ont online on Ancestors At Rest. If you care to take a look go to http://www.ancestorsatrest.com/ontario.shtml and pick Lakeview. I hope this post is of help. Brian Ancestors At Rest __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp

Dear Lister: I would like to know if anyone on this list would be interested in formation a Ontario Cemeteries Conservation Group. This group mandate would be simple and to the point. 1. To bring to the attention of the public a cemetery that is in disrepair. 2.To make sure that all cemeteries in a member area are known and acknowledge. 3. That all cemeteries are accessible to the public. 4. To have signage for cemeteries put in place, if feasible. Membership is free and all work volunteer.This non -profit group would follow the proposed format . Part "A" Step 1. To contact the cemetery's owner , bringing the problem to their attention. Step 2.Contact the Ontario Cemeteries Board in Toronto Step 3. If no action is taken upon contacting the owners of the cemetery and/or the Ontario Cemeteries Board, will contact the media to resolve this issue. Part "B" 4. Where the cemetery is not known to the public , can either record the stones themselves or contact the nearest branch of the OGS to do this. Part"C" 5. If a member wishes, they may photography a cemetery. Part "D" The" Ontario Cemeteries Conservation Group" main objective is to be a non- confrontational group working in a positive way to resolve a cemetery issue . I further proposed that we also start a new program " Adopt a grave" This program would be for anyone who wishes to take care of a gravesite by maintenance of weed control if there is none, or water or planting of flowers in accordance to the cemetery's bylaws of the gravesite they wish to adopted. There are lots of gravesite that have no immediate family to care or give this personal touch. Permission of the owners of the cemetery must be given . "Adopt a Grave" would be a FREE voluntary service. To the best of my knowledge there is no known group such as this in Ontario. Please contact me only if would like to see this group formed . Sheila

In my search for Grace Taylor who married Henry Taylor in Ireland, I came across this obituary My Taylor's were in Equessing and my brickwall is going backward from them. I have to find their burial in Limehouse,Acton, Georgetown area to discover her maiden name hopefully and where in Ireland that they came from. I'm not sure where the followingt belongs, but THIS Grace Taylor (Ware) was born in Ontario. I also know how difficult it is to locate females after their marriage and relocation so hopefully it will fill a gap for someone else. Grace Mary Taylor Obituary Daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Alfred Ware, St. Thomas, Ontario Obituary of Grace Mary Taylor (Port Angeles Evening News, Dec. 15, 1951) Mrs. Grace Mary Taylor, 76, 112 S. Laurel St. widow of the late A. N. Taylor, died Saturday after an illness of only one day. Private funeral services were held today in the chapel of the McDonald Funeral Home with the Rev. John F. Como officiating. Cremation followed. Mrs. Taylor was born in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada, Jan. 23, 1875, the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Alfred Ware. She came here with her parents in 1887. They previously has lived in Milwaukee, WI, Yakima and Tacoma. She married A. N. Taylor, Dec. 21, 1894. He was one of the city's first school teachers and a prominent early day teacher. The family later moved to Jamestown, where Mr. Taylor taught in Indian School and was a government agent. After his death, Mrs. Taylor came back to Port Angeles where she has resided until her death. She was active in many affairs of this city and county. Surviving are 2 daughters, Mrs. Wilson, Port Angeles, and Mrs. Charles Skidmore, Tacoma; 3 sons, Stanley A. Taylor, Port Angeles; Jess Taylor, Sequim; and Clarence Taylor, Moses Lake, WA; a brother, Alfred J. Ware, Mrs. Elsie Ware Meyer, Berkeley, CA Another brother, William J. Ware, one of the city's most prominent citizens, died here earlier this year. Many relatives from out of town are here for the funeral. Submitted by Diana Withrow <mailto:withrowg@prodigy.net> on November 4, 2001.

I am reposting this information as there have been some posts recently looking for Sault Ste. Marie information. I hope no one minds. Gloria An interesting site that I found,,,,,,I don't know if it is included anywhere else. http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/genealogy.htm Lists and genealogy information available at this site. Various research lists available at this site: Early Families of Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/EarlyFam.htm> 1861 Census of Sault Ste. Marie <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/1861census.htm> Narrative of Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/narrative.htm> -- Falkner, 1921 Shingwauk Cemetery <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/Shingwauk.htm> -- Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Queen Street Cemetery <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/Queen.htm> -- Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Penetanguishene Voyageurs <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/voyageurs.htm> The Bourgeois of the NorthWest Company <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/bourgeois.htm> Red River Mission Marriages <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/RRMission.htm> Married at Michilimackinac <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/catholic.htm> -- 1725 to 1837 Michigan Voyageurs <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/abbottlist.htm> -- 1807 to 1817 Whitefish Lake Band <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/whitefish.htm> -- 1850 to 1900 Whitefish Lake Band Annuity <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/annuity.htm> -- 1850 Fort Brady Interments <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/fortbrady.htm> -- Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan Catholic's at Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario - 1834 <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/catholics1834.htm> War of 1812 - Indian Department <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/1812war.htm> Sault Ste. Marie, Voluntary Infantry Company - 1863 <http://www3.sympatico.ca/sneakers/infantry.htm> ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== READ THE TAGLINES! BEFORE you ask for a lookups check out http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians/ ============================== Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx

Sheila, spoke to friend and Manager of one of our local cemeteries and she says to her knowledge there is nothing like that. Each cemetery (as you know) has their own by laws and due to liability issues they must be very careful. Especially now that the Municipalities have taken over the "ownership" of most of them. The Ontario Association for cemeteries have their own by laws that each Cemetery must adhere to and again having the public come in and do what you are thinking of again becomes a liability issue. Personally am not sure I would like to accept the responsibility for someone else's property. Each plot is privately owned and if we ever did something to cause damage or get injured, we could be on the hook financially. This idea would take a lot of research before trying to implement. At the very outmost, would think if you wanted to play an active part in the care, rules and on going issues you would first have to get yourself elected to the Board. (locally or otherwise) Ellen -----Original Message----- From: GEN [mailto:gendreamer@wightman.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:12 AM To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ON-CEM] Cemeteries group for Ontario? Dear Listers; Does anyone know if there is a group for people who wish to be members of Ontario association for cemeteries? I know there is one for professionals. But is there one for people like ourselves who can join and play an active part in the care, rules and ongoing issues? Look forward to your answers. Sheila ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians (lookups ) http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~clifford/index.htm ( photos) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~janjones/ (view obits online) ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005

Thanks to the several who mailed suggestions as to how to determine if a gravesite is occupied. The ideas really varied, from the very expensive to the old fashioned. I'm still thinking my way through them. Again, my thanks. Joyce Stevens

Dear Listers; Does anyone know if there is a group for people who wish to be members of Ontario association for cemeteries? I know there is one for professionals. But is there one for people like ourselves who can join and play an active part in the care, rules and ongoing issues? Look forward to your answers. Sheila

I am looking for a death date & burial of a great uncle, ADAM C. FRASER, born July 3rd, 1876 in Harrington, Quebec but lived and presume died in Ottawa area. - Colin Fraser in Victoria, BC

I would be very grateful if listers in Hastings, Renfrew, Pontiac, Lanark, Glengarry, Carleton could have a look at their cemetery lists to see if a Jane, Janet, Jean McPhee (or various spellings) is buried there. The Jane McPhee I am searching for was born in 1818, and was supposedly living in Admaston Township, Renfrew Cty, near Douglas in the 1850s with her husband Robert Black and their four children. Jane McPhee came from a family of "Tinkers", but it is not clear if that lifestyle and occupation continued after she married my gggrandfather. I do know that she appears with her family in the 1851 census, but by 1861 all her children are in the care of family and relatives, while her husband cannot be found on the census. He reappears in 1871, identified as a widower, and soon thereafter remarries. I just want to see if she is indeed buried somewhere else, other than here in Renfrew Cty, since I have pretty well exhausted the resources nearer to me. Oh, I should add that Jane McPhee's family was to be found in the Lanark area. Thank you. Dean Black

Hi everyone. I have the site going now. And it can be found a http://ocml0.tripod.com/ It is not perfect. I will add the website address on all the taglines. PLEASE do not send me any information to me. I just wanted people to let me know what you thought of the idea. OK? Thanks to all who sent e-mails to me. Sheila