Hi everyone. Here is my two cents worth on the whole issue. 1. If the caretaker tell you not to use something on the tombstone ..LISTEN to him or her. The key word is "Cemetery caretaker". Whether you agree or disagree with the advice given, the bottom line is he or she is IN CHARGE with care and upkeep of that cemetery. Legally, he could have you thrown out of the cemetery for vandalism. Doubt me, then maybe you need to take the time to read all the Ontario Cemetery Regulations ACT. What is the correct way to do rubbings?I honestly don't know. Having said that I would go to an expert and it would come from only two sources; namely, people who make manufacture monuments or book recommended by them. I will go one step further and see if I can get an expert to answer this question. Today I will e-mail the ministry in charge of cemeteries and ask that one of their expert give us a clear answer to this question. Personally, I still maintain a photo and a copy of the cemetery transcripts for the stone in question make for the best way to resolve the issue. Sheila List Mom

I think it is too bad that some cemetery caretakers (who should know better) believe in these old wives tales. The idea that shaving cream can cause harm to tombstones is a myth that was exploded long ago, in spite of the fact that a lot of websites with names that seem like they should be authoritative say to the contrary. � Shaving cream simply does NOT harm the tombstone, and if washed away, does NOT leave any residue. Think about it - the principle solvent in the can is water (it is the #1 ingredient), and the other ingredients do not partition in the can. So how could the same ingredients magically become insoluble in the SAME solvent when applied in even greater volume later? That notion simply defies the laws of physics. � Moreover, I have seen a lot of claims of shaving cream doing harm to specific tombstones. But whenever I see the pictures of the stones, it is always the case that the imperfections in the stone are CLEARLY caused�by some other process(es), most usually carbonation and hydrolysis. I even saw one case where a guy showed some pictures claiming to represent shaving cream damage - yet he didn't seem to think it was important to inform the viewer of the pictures that the tombstones in question had recently been involved in a raging brushfire - shameless! � Brock Way � ��� In the cemetery that we took pictures of my husband ancestors the � caretaker came up to us and made sure we were not using shaving cream, he � even took us and showed us a few headstones that had been around since the � early 1800's that someone had used shaving cream on and you could see the � damage, it had eaten right into the stone, and in a few more years nothing � is going to show on these headstones, sad really they stood the test of time � and along comes someone with a can of shaving cream and in a few years all � record is going to be gone. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Is there anyone who does look ups in Toronto. Jopie ----- Original Message ----- From: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 2:00 AM Subject: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-D Digest V04 #197

This is a topic that should be important to all of us, since we are left with the results of bad practices in this area. My rules, in order of importance: 1. Like the Doctor's oath - "Do no harm". 2. Use controlled LIGHT, don't TOUCH the stone 3. Use water, BUT do not soak, do not use water if there is a chance of freezing / frost before THOROUGH dry out. 4. Use a little dirt Personally I stop there. I can get most of mine with the first 2. That includes shallow inscription on a black stone, facing north, under a huge, low, overhanging evergreen tree (leading to no direct ambient light, ever!). It took a visit to the graveyard after dark with a flash to create an angled, direct light to do it, but I didn't contaminate the stone. I consulted the following book: "Landscapes of Memories: A Guide for Conserving Historic Cemeteries - Repairing Tombstones", compiled and editted by Tamara Anson-Cartwright, Architectural Conservation Advisor, Heritate Properties & Museums Programs Unit. ISBN: 0-7778-7260-9, Queen's Printer for Ontario Chapter 2: Cleaning Stone - wash with small quantities of clean water, if NO FROST / FREEZING - use of a SOFT nylon brush lightly "For more serious situations of soiling and deterioration, it is best to hire only skilled stone masons and conservators with extensive professional experience and expertise in this specific area." With all the acid rain around, the various types of stone used over the ages, and the crumbling nature of some of them, I prefer to not even take rubbings - light works so much better! Happy Hunting Ron On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:19:04 -0400, Nancy Keith wrote: >I hope that you get a lot of good answers for this question, as anyone >who tries to read old stones runs into this problem. What we DON'T want >to do is to further damage the stone! Therefore, old standbys like >using shaving cream and other such materials that leave a residue just >aren't acceptable. >There are small blacklights on the market that, when plugged into a >car's cigarette lighter (or other power source) can illuminate a stone >well enough for you to read and photograph it. This works better at >different times of the day and in different lights. Experimenting with >one at your local cemetery can give you a good idea of what time of >day/what daylight level works best before you travel to a farther location. >Sometimes we fill in the remnants of letters with plain old black dirt, >taking care to wash it down with plenty of water when we are done. > Often this will reveal enough to show what the stone says. >When our parents were choosing their headstone, they wanted a >duplication of the pattern on Dad's parents' stone. The owner of the >shop went to the cemetery with a special paper that had been treated so >that when she simply ran a tennis ball (!) over the paper, it picked up >every part that the ball ran over. When I expressed amazement over such >a simple, noninvasive tool, she happily gave me a generous amount, plus >the name and address of the company that had produced it. I would >expect that nearly anyone who sells memorials would have access to this. > Possibly it could be found by Googling. >Another method that works is plain paper (pieces of paper table covers >or newsprint work well) and a broad crayon. There are blocks of wax >manufactured for this purpose - and the blocks used for brass rubbings >work quite well, too. Nothing is left on the stone, and you can control >just how much of the image you want to pick up by rubbing more or >rubbing less. >I also have discovered that most lichens/mosses will come off a stone if >you get it quite wet (you might need to carry a container for the water >and, in some older cemeteries, a jug of two of the water itself). > Sometimes they will come off with a gentle rubbing motion of your >fingers; sometimes it will require a soft brush; sometimes a stiffer >brush is in order, but used with gentleness. In extreme cases - on >granite but NOT on the fragile old stones - some bleach poured on, >scrubbed gently with a brush, and THOROUGHLY rinsed off will do the job. > (Wear old clothes, and be careful of what is growing by the stone - >rinse, rinse, rinse!) I learned this from a friend whose job is >cemetery restoration - in Ontario. >Hope this helps. >Nancy >next door in Michigan Ron Cushman net-genealogy@rogers.com ON, Canada

Well...thanks to this list I learned a lesson about not using shaving cream....glad I did not try it out...thanks everyone! Tom

I have not done any cemetery rubbings for about 25 years but here is the method we used which was quite successful: 1. Old Sandstone headstones that are barely legible to the naked eye. We carred a suitcase with some caprenter's chalk (which is very soft). We gently applied the chalk to the letters on the stone. We then ran a soft piece of styrofoam covered by a soft clolth over it to remove the excess. We then took an old oil light pump (had been lying around the house for years) and blew away all the chalk in the crevices. This left the lettering very clear. We photographed the stone and then took a very small sprayer filled with water and sprayed the stone until all the chalk had disappeared. We didn't need to use any detergent or chemical just plain old H2o that we normally got right from the spigot in the cemetery. A couple of the stones that we did, are now gone, but I have good pictures of what they said. I have also checked some of the stones and if they have not disappeared completely (broken off and been carried away) they are still in approximately the same condition they were when we photographed them, so I don't believe the process did any noticeable damage to them. I am positive since they were great grandparents and further back there aren't a lot of people interested in those particular stones so that was probably the only time they were rubbed. 2. This process does not work well on granite stones. I found that using special lighting (know how your camera works) worked best on these newer stones. Now do you want to know about searching for unmarked graves? Karen

I used plain water with a soft brush. Starting at the bottom of the stone. Janine

Water, plain old water works well to bring up the writing on old stones if it is pictures you are wanting to take. Used this method a few years back in Nova Scotia when taking some pictures of rather old headstones of my husbands ancestors, but the drawback is you actually need two people because the water dries fast. Also have been told that a green leaf can work for rubbing, and that the evidence that rubbing has taken place is dulled in a day or so.... and completely gone in a about a month, but I don't have much experience in this so really don't know. Have read articles though that anything with a chemical in it will harm stones. In the cemetery that we took pictures of my husband ancestors the caretaker came up to us and made sure we were not using shaving cream, he even took us and showed us a few headstones that had been around since the early 1800's that someone had used shaving cream on and you could see the damage, it had eaten right into the stone, and in a few more years nothing is going to show on these headstones, sad really they stood the test of time and along comes someone with a can of shaving cream and in a few years all record is going to be gone. Christine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Jones" <jjones@bam.on.ca> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Chalk Rubbings? > Well, in some cases, you can't even see what it says... figure rubbing might > be the only way... > > Betty suggested doing a paper-charcoal rubbing... like we used to do in > school. This way the stone isn't affected by the materials. Are there any > other suggestions? > > (cc'ing list to see the brainstorming process!) > > > If the stone is in that bad of a shape, why risk causing more damage? > > Why not get a copy of what the stones says plus get a photo of it. > > Safe, sound and out of trouble. > > Using vinegar is out.......... , chalk is only good on a good grey stone, > > not marble/sandstone. > > That is just my opinion. > > Sheila > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > > Help Vicki Turner save the " Canniff Mill Cemetery" > http://canniffcemetery.com/index.html to see her story . > Let's not this and other cemeteries be fogotten > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

I had a kind soul that went out to where my ggrandparents are buried and took a photo of their stones and it was amazing how clear, and I mean clear, the etchings were!!! When I told her how wonderful it was to find that clear of an etching on a stone after 80 years she told me she used plaster of paris....mixed it up in a container at home and applied it to the stone over the etching..and let it dry a few minutes..now I never thought to ask if she washed it off, I hope so because I can see where that would eat into the stone...the photos were fantastic but I would hope, hindsight coming in here, that there was no harm done...has anyone heard of using that process? Carol Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Keith" <keithnancy@t-one.net> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Chalk Rubbings? > > I hope that you get a lot of good answers for this question, as anyone > who tries to read old stones runs into this problem. What we DON'T want > to do is to further damage the stone! Therefore, old standbys like > using shaving cream and other such materials that leave a residue just > aren't acceptable. > > There are small blacklights on the market that, when plugged into a > car's cigarette lighter (or other power source) can illuminate a stone > well enough for you to read and photograph it. This works better at > different times of the day and in different lights. Experimenting with > one at your local cemetery can give you a good idea of what time of > day/what daylight level works best before you travel to a farther location. > > Sometimes we fill in the remnants of letters with plain old black dirt, > taking care to wash it down with plenty of water when we are done. > Often this will reveal enough to show what the stone says. > > When our parents were choosing their headstone, they wanted a > duplication of the pattern on Dad's parents' stone. The owner of the > shop went to the cemetery with a special paper that had been treated so > that when she simply ran a tennis ball (!) over the paper, it picked up > every part that the ball ran over. When I expressed amazement over such > a simple, noninvasive tool, she happily gave me a generous amount, plus > the name and address of the company that had produced it. I would > expect that nearly anyone who sells memorials would have access to this. > Possibly it could be found by Googling. > > Another method that works is plain paper (pieces of paper table covers > or newsprint work well) and a broad crayon. There are blocks of wax > manufactured for this purpose - and the blocks used for brass rubbings > work quite well, too. Nothing is left on the stone, and you can control > just how much of the image you want to pick up by rubbing more or > rubbing less. > > I also have discovered that most lichens/mosses will come off a stone if > you get it quite wet (you might need to carry a container for the water > and, in some older cemeteries, a jug of two of the water itself). > Sometimes they will come off with a gentle rubbing motion of your > fingers; sometimes it will require a soft brush; sometimes a stiffer > brush is in order, but used with gentleness. In extreme cases - on > granite but NOT on the fragile old stones - some bleach poured on, > scrubbed gently with a brush, and THOROUGHLY rinsed off will do the job. > (Wear old clothes, and be careful of what is growing by the stone - > rinse, rinse, rinse!) I learned this from a friend whose job is > cemetery restoration - in Ontario. > > Hope this helps. > > Nancy > next door in Michigan > > > > Janet Jones wrote: > > >Hello everyone. > > > >What is the suggested practice of reading deteriorated stones? Is it chalk > >rubbings or is there another method that's even better? Is there a certain > >'code of ethics' to follow? Personally, I haven't done any rubbings in fear > >of aiding in the deterioration and/or offending someone who visits the > >stone(s). How do you do it? > > > >Best wishes, > >Jan jjones@bam.on.ca > > > >"Every little obit helps" > >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~janjones/ObitsHome.htm > > > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > ONT. OBITS Website :http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~janjones/ > and > to join CAN-ONT-OBITS-L-request@rootsweb.com with subscribe in the subject and body. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.764 / Virus Database: 511 - Release Date: 9/15/04

I hope that you get a lot of good answers for this question, as anyone who tries to read old stones runs into this problem. What we DON'T want to do is to further damage the stone! Therefore, old standbys like using shaving cream and other such materials that leave a residue just aren't acceptable. There are small blacklights on the market that, when plugged into a car's cigarette lighter (or other power source) can illuminate a stone well enough for you to read and photograph it. This works better at different times of the day and in different lights. Experimenting with one at your local cemetery can give you a good idea of what time of day/what daylight level works best before you travel to a farther location. Sometimes we fill in the remnants of letters with plain old black dirt, taking care to wash it down with plenty of water when we are done. Often this will reveal enough to show what the stone says. When our parents were choosing their headstone, they wanted a duplication of the pattern on Dad's parents' stone. The owner of the shop went to the cemetery with a special paper that had been treated so that when she simply ran a tennis ball (!) over the paper, it picked up every part that the ball ran over. When I expressed amazement over such a simple, noninvasive tool, she happily gave me a generous amount, plus the name and address of the company that had produced it. I would expect that nearly anyone who sells memorials would have access to this. Possibly it could be found by Googling. Another method that works is plain paper (pieces of paper table covers or newsprint work well) and a broad crayon. There are blocks of wax manufactured for this purpose - and the blocks used for brass rubbings work quite well, too. Nothing is left on the stone, and you can control just how much of the image you want to pick up by rubbing more or rubbing less. I also have discovered that most lichens/mosses will come off a stone if you get it quite wet (you might need to carry a container for the water and, in some older cemeteries, a jug of two of the water itself). Sometimes they will come off with a gentle rubbing motion of your fingers; sometimes it will require a soft brush; sometimes a stiffer brush is in order, but used with gentleness. In extreme cases - on granite but NOT on the fragile old stones - some bleach poured on, scrubbed gently with a brush, and THOROUGHLY rinsed off will do the job. (Wear old clothes, and be careful of what is growing by the stone - rinse, rinse, rinse!) I learned this from a friend whose job is cemetery restoration - in Ontario. Hope this helps. Nancy next door in Michigan Janet Jones wrote: >Hello everyone. > >What is the suggested practice of reading deteriorated stones? Is it chalk >rubbings or is there another method that's even better? Is there a certain >'code of ethics' to follow? Personally, I haven't done any rubbings in fear >of aiding in the deterioration and/or offending someone who visits the >stone(s). How do you do it? > >Best wishes, >Jan jjones@bam.on.ca > >"Every little obit helps" >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~janjones/ObitsHome.htm >

I had printed off a message from Feb of this year to this site.....Gord advised that he uses foamy shaving cream - not the gel type. Put a little on the stone and spread it around. Clean off the excess with a piece of cardboard with a straight edge. And it washes away with water.... Tom

Well, in some cases, you can't even see what it says... figure rubbing might be the only way... Betty suggested doing a paper-charcoal rubbing... like we used to do in school. This way the stone isn't affected by the materials. Are there any other suggestions? (cc'ing list to see the brainstorming process!) > If the stone is in that bad of a shape, why risk causing more damage? > Why not get a copy of what the stones says plus get a photo of it. > Safe, sound and out of trouble. > Using vinegar is out.......... , chalk is only good on a good grey stone, > not marble/sandstone. > That is just my opinion. > Sheila

Hello everyone. What is the suggested practice of reading deteriorated stones? Is it chalk rubbings or is there another method that's even better? Is there a certain 'code of ethics' to follow? Personally, I haven't done any rubbings in fear of aiding in the deterioration and/or offending someone who visits the stone(s). How do you do it? Best wishes, Jan jjones@bam.on.ca "Every little obit helps" http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~janjones/ObitsHome.htm

THERIAULT Theresa (w/o George H. Saunders) Cataraqui (Section E) Frontenac Kingston KG-0524-8 Could someone please lookup this couple for me? THank you! THERIAULT Theresa and husband George H. Jen

Please can anyone tell me if there are lookups done for this cemetery. Sue -- Sue Smith suecluett@fish.co.uk (01892 835974) http://www.cluett.org.uk (sue@cluett.org.uk)

Hi everyone! This email is about two subjects. Do you have a photo of an old cemetery? Pioneer Cemetery? Abandoned Cemetery? Located in Ontario? Photos of old cemeteries are welcomed for our other site which features old/Abandoned or Pioneer Cemeteries. The location , plus a brief history of the cemetery are welcomed along with a photo of the cemetery. If by chance the cemetery is named ( This is an example) Rush cemetery.........then a photo of the tombstone(s) of Rush would be a welcomed addition. Questions? Please contact me off list. Do NOT send me any photos without telling me first. I do not accept any attachments without prior notice. shill@wightman.ca E-MAILS There are some people who are having there e-mail bounced back for either a full mail box or invalid e-mail address. If this problem continues the person is deleted from being a member of the mailing list. This is done automatically. QUESTION 1.Do you think the Ontario Cemeteries website should be expanded to include other provinces and territories of Canada? 2. Do you think the name of the resource -lookup website should be changed from Gateway to Ontario Cemeteries to Ontario Cemeteries Resources? Again your replies to the above questions should be address to me off site at shill@wightman.ca A big thank-you to Janet Jones who keeps our website looking great and updated and to all who volunteer their time to make both website plus the mailing list work. Sheila List mom

During my recent visit, for some unknown reason, I took some pix of PATERSON (PATTERSON) headstones. One of which is: Capt. T. Selby PATTERSON and his wife Cora SCHAAF. Anyone looking for PATTERSON in Hanover Cem.? Ellen --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004

Please unsubscribe. Marjorie Wilson -----Original Message----- From: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-D-request@rootsweb.com [mailto:CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-D-request@rootsweb.com] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 7:00 PM To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-D@rootsweb.com Subject: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-D Digest V04 #195

Hello everyone! "Gateway to Ontario Cemeteries" has been updated again. The website is devoted to helping you find that cemetery transcription / tombstone photo that you are looking for (in Ontario ONLY) through the help of volunteers. If you can't find a volunteer for the cemetery you are looking for, please visit the website and follow the link for the Rootsweb Ontario Cemeteries mailing list to see if someone can help (near the bottom of the page). If you have submitted a volunteer posting, please visit the website to ensure the accuracy of your listing. If your listing does not appear on the list, please send Sheila Hill or myself a note with the information and we will be sure to add it on the next update. ******New volunteers are always welcome - please send the following information: (County; Township; Cemetery(ies); Name & Email; Availability - lookups, transcriptions only; photos, etc.)****** http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians (Please note that the search bar at the top of the page is a rootsweb affiliated advertisement and will take you elsewhere.) Many thanks to all who are already volunteers! Best wishes, Jan jjones@bam.on.ca "Every little obit helps" http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~janjones/ObitsHome.htm

Hi Ellen, If you took a picture of that most unusual headstone, I'd sure appreciate a copy of it. Thanks ... - Larry B. from Wisconsin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellen Murray" <ellen.murray@sympatico.ca> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:27 PM Subject: headstone inscription > Remember when you were just starting into this genealogy addiction and how > it tugged at your heart to see all those infant stones? Well on my recent > trip to Hanover Cemetery, came across, the that also > tugged at my heart. It was a full size 2 seater park bench made of black > granite. Absolutely gorgeous. The inscription on the back of the bench > brought tears to my eyes, it conveyed such love from a husband to his wife. > It read as follows: > > Barb... > When I sit for a while and close my eyes > I can hear your laughter across the skies > Riding Pegasus, happy and free > Forever you'll be God's gift to me > > Maybe I am just being sappy, but had to share this with you. > > Ellen > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004 >