I have been reading all of these posts re tombstones. It appears to me that we should be asking those who make them. Anyone who works with stone should be able to tell us what will and what will not damage the stone. Is there a geologist or a tombstone architect in the crowd? Dawn Family Research: SMYTH, SPENCER, SPARKHALL, CUBITT, BOWER, WORTS, DEARING, GLEESON, LANDRY/LONDRY, WILLIS, HUMPHREY, HENLEY/HENERBY - married in: Brown & Browne, Barnham, Shepherd, More, Randle, Wright, McArthur, Bloomer, Tustian, Doan, Burnette, Stillwell, Luck, Huckle, Nelson, Foreman, Sherk, Near, Clark, Fligg, Gould, Sparling and many more!!

Hi Sheila, Sorry, I was writing my last post as your post forbidding discussion on the shaving cream topic came in - so I didn't see it until I had already sent mine. I would like to address one thing, though: > 78. (1) Any person who, in a cemetery, damages or > moves any tree, plant, > marker, fence, structure or other thing usually > erected, planted or placed > in a cemetery is liable to the cemetery owner and > any interment rights > holder who, as a result, incurs damage. R.S.O. 1990, > c. C.4, s. 78 (1). I think this is what I already said. It talks about what happens in cases where someone in a cemetery damages something. But in the case of shaving cream, no damage is done, so no prosecution could be afforded under this statute. Brock __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Hi Folks, Just to address a couple of issues-- > Some of these penetrate the stone matrix, and do NOT > simply rinse off. This is simply untrue. If you have experience in chemistry, and know the difference between emulsion and solution, then you should also know what chromatography is. There is no pore in the stone that is large enough to allow the entry of the solid phase but yet magically too small to allow entry of the solution phase. No analysis of tombstone material has ever shown trace of residue. What there is is a LOT of is people CLAIMING there is a residue which does not wash off. This issue is very much like evolution. People have strong beliefs that cannot be swayed with actual science. But as a scientific investigation, this was settled a long time ago. The experiment has already been done. If you choose not to believe, fine, I am not going to FORCE people to put shaving cream on a tombstone. > They can damage the stone, or become nutrients for > various organisms that can also be harmful. Uhm, what? Which organisms can metabolize shaving cream? The only way shaving cream even harbors organisms is the case where floating organisms get stuck to it, and then metabolize surrounding material. But here again, this doesn't happen if you just wash it off. > The Association for Gravestone Studies > (http://www.gravestonestudies.org/), > among others, state that shaving cream should NEVER > be used on stones. I am > more inclined to believe them than some > unidentified source. That's curious. When you were talking about "unidentified souce", I would have presumed it was the Association for Gravestone Studies that you were refering to. There is no source given for any of the opinions shown there. > Lacking any authoritative data to the contrary, I > would never put anything other than light and water > on a stone. I think a lot of genealogist create really interesting pedigrees using the same logic. If I ask them for proof that William Schmoe is Joe Schmoe's father, they respond, "prove that he isn't!". The trouble with this is that the burden of proof is on the original assertion, not on its refutation. It is illogical to presume an assertion is true unless someone can prove it is untrue. So rather than wait for "authoritative data to the contrary", I would suggest that someone provide "authoritative data in the affirmative", which I note that nobody has yet to do. This 'no shaving cream' rationale is no more logical than someone suggesting that looking at the stone will harm it, then everyone not looking at the stone until some "authoritative data" surfaces to show that it is not harmful to look at the stone. Brock _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

Brock Way wrote: > > Shaving cream simply does NOT harm the tombstone, and > if washed away, does NOT leave any residue. Think > about it - the principle solvent in the can is water > (it is the #1 ingredient), and the other ingredients > do not partition in the can. So how could the same > ingredients magically become insoluble in the SAME > solvent when applied in even greater volume later? > That notion simply defies the laws of physics. > Folks, I'm just an engineer, not an expert on stones. However, I do have some knowledge of physics and chemistry (organic and inorganic), and I know the difference between an emulsion and a solution. Shaving cream contains several organic acids, numerous oils, dyes, propylene glycol, and various glycerides. Some of these penetrate the stone matrix, and do NOT simply rinse off. They can damage the stone, or become nutrients for various organisms that can also be harmful. The Association for Gravestone Studies (http://www.gravestonestudies.org/), among others, state that shaving cream should NEVER be used on stones. I am more inclined to believe them than some unidentified source. Lacking any authoritative data to the contrary, I would never put anything other than light and water on a stone. If there is enough indentation to fill with shaving cream, chalk (an abrasive), or other foreign material, those same hollows can be filled with shadow by using grazing illumination. With only light touching the stone, I KNOW that I have done no harm. Gary Vincent Colorado, USA

In my experience I have found that just because the name is on the stone doesn't mean they are buried there. I have one cemetery that I am doing where the name is on one stone in one row yet the person is really buried about 4 rows over along with another stone. You will also get the names put down of those killed in the war yet it may not say that on the stone. Or in the case of one spouse dying early and the other remarrying or even the names of the children put on a stone when they aren't buried there. My mother's name is on my fathers stone and it is a large stone so one would assume she will be buried there but she now lives 200 miles away with her new husband of 35 years and won't be buried with my dad at all. It helps if you can get the cemetery records and that will tell if the person is really buried there or not. Some people will give them to you and others won't. Janine

Hi Listers, A couple of you have posted a link to a website that would seem to take the view opposite of what I have espoused. I guess I was not obvious enough in my original post, when I talked of "websites with names that seem like they should be authoritative". The website cited is not a product of critical thinking on the issue, but is rather a harem-scarem piece written by folks who have an EMOTIONAL bond to the idea that shaving cream is bad. You really need look no further than the link (therein) to "stearic acid", one of the components of shaving cream. It gives information about first aid measures for contact based on type (inhalation, ingestion, skin contact, &c.). What in the world does this have to do with anything? It is fear-mongering, and it seems to have already worked even on one of our own list members. Please don't forget that we are talking about shaving cream here. I don't know anyone who is saying it would be a good idea to BREATHE stearic acid - that would probably be bad. But what is worse about the website in question is that it makes claims which simply demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. It talks about about how shaving cream is more acidic than acid rain, and thus it will be like acid rain in "hastening destruction". First of all, ALL rain is acid rain. All rain has ALWAYS been acidic. This is what I meant by "carbonation" (a form of chemical weathering) in my previous note. Shaving cream is LESS acidic than normal, typical rain in most of eastern north america, and about the same pH as western north america. So if anything, shaving cream would have a PROTECTIVE effect against this acid rain, which is the real culprit, due to hydrolysis, hydration, and carbonation. I agree that you do whatever the caretaker says, regardless of how ill-informed he may be. However, I think a charge of "vandalism" couldn't be prosecuted. This is because there is a specific requirement for the legal class of "vandalism" in that the action must yield PERMANENT change. And as I have said, shaving cream causes NO change. So maybe trespassing could be found, but not vandalism. Some people have advocated using water for some purpose. I cannot see how someone could advocate that, and at the same time be against using shaving cream. Water is a known chemical weathering agent by virtue of hydrolysis and hydration, and also carbonation where the water is rain. I think a lot of people have fallen into a trap of something like circular reasoning. They reason that nothing that might harm the stone should be put on it, and since shaving cream might harm the stone, it should not be put on it. This presumes the conclusion. The premise that shaving cream might harm the stone is false. This type of reasoning is illogical, and if followed in general genealogical concerns, then I now understand why so many people have pedigrees which are (shall I say?) really 'entertaining'. But there is no need to resort to logical arguments, or rationales, or even appeals to authorities on this matter (as it seems this list is want to do), as it has ALREADY been settled scientifically. On organic chemist and a geologist already did EXACTLY the experiment under consideration with an accelerated aging process, and calculated that the difference between the experimental group and the control group could be discerned by human eye in a "mere" 8,000 years, if you shaving creamed the stone EVERY DAY. I think it is safe to say that at the 8,000-year mark, the stone will already be gone due to other factors. Brock __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

I would have to agree. If there is any doubt about a method at all then don t use it. If simple water will do the trick then go with that. Regardless, we'll be happy to hear what the ministry has to say. Thanks Sheila, Gordon -------Original Message------- From: Minto_Gal Date: 09/17/04 07:43:25 To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ON-CEM] Tombstones rubbings -List Mom- Hi everyone. Here is my two cents worth on the whole issue. 1. If the caretaker tell you not to use something on the tombstone ..LISTEN to him or her. The key word is "Cemetery caretaker". Whether you agree or disagree with the advice given, the bottom line is he or she is IN CHARGE with care and upkeep of that cemetery. Legally, he could have you thrown out of the cemetery for vandalism. Doubt me, then maybe you need to take the time to read all the Ontario Cemetery Regulations ACT. What is the correct way to do rubbings?I honestly don't know. Having said that I would go to an expert and it would come from only two sources; namely, people who make manufacture monuments or book recommended by them. I will go one step further and see if I can get an expert to answer this question. Today I will e-mail the ministry in charge of cemeteries and ask that one of their expert give us a clear answer to this question. Personally, I still maintain a photo and a copy of the cemetery transcripts for the stone in question make for the best way to resolve the issue. Sheila List Mom ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== READ the taglines! Before you ask for a lookup ...check http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

A number of sources disagree. Please see: http://genealogy.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.savinggraves.com%2Feducation% 2Fbookshelf%2Fshavingcream.htm Ron On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:04:45 -0700 (PDT), Brock Way wrote: >I think it is too bad that some cemetery caretakers >(who should know better) believe in these old wives >tales. The idea that shaving cream can cause harm to >tombstones is a myth that was exploded long ago, in >spite of the fact that a lot of websites with names >that seem like they should be authoritative say to the >contrary. Ron Cushman net-genealogy@rogers.com ON, Canada

Hi Brian and others, I was going to get to the point that the stone may not have been inscribed yet/ever? Also, names are inscribed and then noted intombed/buried in Holland etc. My 5 year old decided that this was the appropriate time to have a tantrum, and I lost my train of thought and hit send. Heather in Orillia Check http://www.rootsweb.com/~onvsr/ For Ontario Birth, Marriages & Deaths -----Original Message----- From: gilchrists [mailto:gilchrists@idirect.com] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 12:39 PM To: Heather Bertram; CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Buried elsewhere Hi Heather and everyone on the list: In the example Heather uses below you may assume that Mary is indeed "buried" there (noting that there may not be a body), but (using a double negative) you can not assume that John is not buried there. His name may just not be inscribed on the monument. One of the telling factors is the size and style of the tombstone itself, as well as the placement of the inscription. Also for the sake of accuracy you should not state that just because a name is inscribed on a monument that the burial is indeed there. I can give you several examples of where names are inscribed on tombstones and they are not buried there. Obviously in 95% of the cases you can make that assumption. You should have other supporting evidence. Having just gone through this exercise for over 625 bodies which I was responsible for the documentation of, being re-located from one burial ground to another, I can tell you there are more exceptions to the rule than you expect!!!! Cheers! J. Brian Gilchrist Genealogical and Archival research analyst, Box 74503, 270 The Kingsway, ETOBICOKE, Ontario M9A 5E2 gilchrists@idirect.com "I have the reputation of being fearless and decided, and whether correct or not, it saves me much trouble." - written by the Honourable and Right Reverend John Strachan, 1st Anglican Bishop of Toronto in 1846. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Bertram" <aaron@bmts.com> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 2004 Sep 17 10:17 AM Subject: RE: [ON-CEM] Buried elsewhere > Transcript indexes list every name that is one a headstone whether or > not they are burried there. > > i.e. > > Mary Smith, 1900-1980, beloved wife of John Smith. > > Mary is buried here but not John. He will show up in the trancript > index and any cemetery finding aid. > > > > Heather in Orillia > Check http://www.rootsweb.com/~onvsr/ > For Ontario Birth, Marriages & Deaths > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: R. Berden [mailto:berden@advnet.net] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:09 AM > To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Buried elsewhere > > While looking thru the transcribed notes for a local cemetery in > Michigan, I > found a friends mother listed along with her father. I happen to know > the > mother died and is buried in Colorado! > > Ruth > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > Did you print off your sheet when you joined this list ? > Got a branch meeting of the OGS or Historical Society ?...let us know > NO VIRUS OR TEST MESSAGES !!! > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > To UnSUBSCRIBE: to CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L-request@rootsweb.com the word unsubscribe in the subject and body. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

One of the interesting things that I have found in my research. Many foreign tombstones supply a "full family history". In Ireland for instance, a tombstone is more of a cenotaph which often states that it was erected by a son/daughter in memory of the father who died XX was married to mother (maidenname) b.XX died XX and to the child named b.XX died xx and to a son that was b. XX and died in South Africa, etc. There is almost a complete family history for a couple of generations and then it has a last line stating who erected and stone, their relationship, name and where they are residing. Fascinating reading when you are tracking backward as these often tie up many family relationships and tell where members are buried. Few are actually buried in that cemetery, but it does tell you to a large degree where to search further. In my own case, I know that my grandfather, Gordon Thomas Sizer (the name he used all of his life) is buried in Hamilton Cemetery under the name of his birth, Thomas James Sizer. My grandmother was cremated on her death (20 years after his death) and her ashes shipped from B.C. to be buried with him. I guess my uncle never got around to putting information on the stone. Cemetery records confirm that she is "with" him in the same plot, but a transcriber will never know that and British Columbia death records do not record that her ashes are in Ontario..

Hi Heather and everyone on the list: In the example Heather uses below you may assume that Mary is indeed "buried" there (noting that there may not be a body), but (using a double negative) you can not assume that John is not buried there. His name may just not be inscribed on the monument. One of the telling factors is the size and style of the tombstone itself, as well as the placement of the inscription. Also for the sake of accuracy you should not state that just because a name is inscribed on a monument that the burial is indeed there. I can give you several examples of where names are inscribed on tombstones and they are not buried there. Obviously in 95% of the cases you can make that assumption. You should have other supporting evidence. Having just gone through this exercise for over 625 bodies which I was responsible for the documentation of, being re-located from one burial ground to another, I can tell you there are more exceptions to the rule than you expect!!!! Cheers! J. Brian Gilchrist Genealogical and Archival research analyst, Box 74503, 270 The Kingsway, ETOBICOKE, Ontario M9A 5E2 gilchrists@idirect.com "I have the reputation of being fearless and decided, and whether correct or not, it saves me much trouble." - written by the Honourable and Right Reverend John Strachan, 1st Anglican Bishop of Toronto in 1846. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Bertram" <aaron@bmts.com> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 2004 Sep 17 10:17 AM Subject: RE: [ON-CEM] Buried elsewhere > Transcript indexes list every name that is one a headstone whether or > not they are burried there. > > i.e. > > Mary Smith, 1900-1980, beloved wife of John Smith. > > Mary is buried here but not John. He will show up in the trancript > index and any cemetery finding aid. > > > > Heather in Orillia > Check http://www.rootsweb.com/~onvsr/ > For Ontario Birth, Marriages & Deaths > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: R. Berden [mailto:berden@advnet.net] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:09 AM > To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Buried elsewhere > > While looking thru the transcribed notes for a local cemetery in > Michigan, I > found a friends mother listed along with her father. I happen to know > the > mother died and is buried in Colorado! > > Ruth > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > Did you print off your sheet when you joined this list ? > Got a branch meeting of the OGS or Historical Society ?...let us know > NO VIRUS OR TEST MESSAGES !!! > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > To UnSUBSCRIBE: to CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L-request@rootsweb.com the word unsubscribe in the subject and body. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Please let's keep our terminology straight: There is no such thing as the Ontario Cemeteries Regulation Act. There is the Ontario Cemeteries Act (Revised) and then there are the Regulations - which are two separate items. No one has mentioned the technical standards papers produced by the internationally respected Association for Gravestone Studies. Yesterday Ron Cushman mentioned the Anson - Cartwright technical paper produced by the Government of Ontario which is excellent. Richard Collins site "sculptor.org" - is by far the superior site for articles on all aspects of monument cleaning technologies, conservation, maintenance, and non-destructive procedures. Finally, I offer cemetery interpretation sessions. As a group we go to a chosen burial ground, where among other things, I show you how to search for buried monuments and markers; the different types of monuments, and how to transcribe properly. The next one is this Thursday. So, if you are interested please have your local historical society, church group, or genealogical group contact me and I can try and accommodate your needs. Cheers! J. Brian Gilchrist Genealogical and Archival research analyst, Box 74503, 270 The Kingsway, ETOBICOKE, Ontario M9A 5E2 gilchrists@idirect.com "I have the reputation of being fearless and decided, and whether correct or not, it saves me much trouble." - written by the Honourable and Right Reverend John Strachan, 1st Anglican Bishop of Toronto in 1846. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Keith" <keithnancy@t-one.net> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 2004 Sep 17 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Tombstones rubbings -List Mom- > > She's right, you know. If the caretaker says don't, DON'T! > > Regarding rubbings - and this whole subject - I think that we are > talking not so much about stones that can be easily photographed but > about stones that are so worn that they won't yield their information. > Obviously, if you can get a good photo, you don't need to touch the > stone at all. However, if it has worn to near unreadability, solutions > like blacklight, rubbings, etc. need to be explored. It will be good to > see what the Ontario Cemetery Regulations Act contains, ESPECIALLY if > the law contains solutions to that problem. > > Also, regarding the cemetery transcriptions, that is a good idea - but > only if the cemetery has been transcribed - AND if the transcription is > accurate. I already have found transcriptions for three stones to be in > error - the NAMES were wrong on two of them (one listed the baby's > FATHER'S name, not the buried infant's!), and the third person was > buried in a totally different cemetery, complete with his own stone > there! Shakes your confidence a little... which is why we check more > than one place for our information, isn't it? > > Nancy > next door in Michigan where it has cooled a bit but promises another > week or so of gorgeous summer - even if the calendar doesn't. And we > are sending it your way! > > > > > Minto_Gal wrote: > > >Hi everyone. > >Here is my two cents worth on the whole issue. > >1. If the caretaker tell you not to use something on the tombstone ..LISTEN > >to him or her. > >The key word is "Cemetery caretaker". Whether you agree or disagree with > >the advice given, the bottom line is he or she is IN CHARGE with care and > >upkeep of that cemetery. > >Legally, he could have you thrown out of the cemetery for vandalism. > >Doubt me, then maybe you need to take the time to read all the Ontario > >Cemetery Regulations ACT. > >What is the correct way to do rubbings?I honestly don't know. Having said > >that I would go to an expert and it would come from only two sources; > >namely, people who make manufacture monuments or book recommended by them. > >I will go one step further and see if I can get an expert to answer this > >question. > >Today I will e-mail the ministry in charge of cemeteries and ask that one of > >their expert give us a clear answer to this question. > >Personally, I still maintain a photo and a copy of the cemetery transcripts > >for the stone in question make for the best way to resolve the issue. > >Sheila > >List Mom > > > > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > Please read the taglines as they are a source of information for you. > NO TEST OR VIRUS WARNING ON THIS LIST!!!! > > ============================== > You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from > http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/ > >

Hi, We have the same problem in our family. We know where the others are buried, but the family moved away from the original farm after my gg-grandfather died and there is no record of him or his burial. My older cousin thinks that he wa buried on that original farm. On the other side of the family, myg-grandfather is buried with a stone having his name of it. There is no sign of his wife either on the stone or in the transcripts, so that does not hold true that both are in the transcripts. Dawn in dull Toronto -----Original Message----- From: Beverley Rittwage [mailto:brittw5188@rogers.com] Sent: September 17, 2004 9:10 AM To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ON-CEM] Arthur Rittwage 1912 Hello list, could anyone tell me if it was possible that people were burying people in their backyards still in 1912? I have searched many area cemeteries for my great Uncle Arthur Rittwage and haven't had any results yet. His parents, brother and brother's wife are in the Woods cemetery Northumberland, nearest to where they resided, but I cannot find his. If anyone knows of the laws regarding having to bury people in cemeteries could you please inform me? Thankyou. Beverley ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== READ THE TAGLINES! BEFORE you ask for a lookups check out http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians/ ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Sitting here reading these two postings that have just come in and reference is made to one being buried in one spot and one in another..... In the case of my own mother, her ashes are buried in Scotland, and my father is still alive and living presently in Canada. When Dad bought the headstone he had his own name and the year of his birth engraved on the stone, his attitude was all that we his family would need to pay for on the headstone was the year of his death. Dad is still very well at 89 perhaps people feel that he is buried elsewhere when they look at the stone, but he is right here in my house alive and kicking! Christine ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Berden" <berden@advnet.net> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Buried elsewhere > While looking thru the transcribed notes for a local cemetery in Michigan, I > found a friends mother listed along with her father. I happen to know the > mother died and is buried in Colorado! > > Ruth > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > Did you print off your sheet when you joined this list ? > Got a branch meeting of the OGS or Historical Society ?...let us know > NO VIRUS OR TEST MESSAGES !!! > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Transcript indexes list every name that is one a headstone whether or not they are burried there. i.e. Mary Smith, 1900-1980, beloved wife of John Smith. Mary is buried here but not John. He will show up in the trancript index and any cemetery finding aid. Heather in Orillia Check http://www.rootsweb.com/~onvsr/ For Ontario Birth, Marriages & Deaths -----Original Message----- From: R. Berden [mailto:berden@advnet.net] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:09 AM To: CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Buried elsewhere While looking thru the transcribed notes for a local cemetery in Michigan, I found a friends mother listed along with her father. I happen to know the mother died and is buried in Colorado! Ruth ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== Did you print off your sheet when you joined this list ? Got a branch meeting of the OGS or Historical Society ?...let us know NO VIRUS OR TEST MESSAGES !!! ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

While looking thru the transcribed notes for a local cemetery in Michigan, I found a friends mother listed along with her father. I happen to know the mother died and is buried in Colorado! Ruth

Did the father die first. It is customary in Michigan to place a double stone when the first of a couple dies. Usually the living partner's name is inscribed with the birthdate and the death date is left blank. It is possible, that the transcriber just assumed that she had been buried there and the inscription was never finished. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Berden" <berden@advnet.net> To: <CA-ONT-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [ON-CEM] Buried elsewhere > While looking thru the transcribed notes for a local cemetery in Michigan, > I > found a friends mother listed along with her father. I happen to know the > mother died and is buried in Colorado! > > Ruth > > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > Did you print off your sheet when you joined this list ? > Got a branch meeting of the OGS or Historical Society ?...let us know > NO VIRUS OR TEST MESSAGES !!! > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

She's right, you know. If the caretaker says don't, DON'T! Regarding rubbings - and this whole subject - I think that we are talking not so much about stones that can be easily photographed but about stones that are so worn that they won't yield their information. Obviously, if you can get a good photo, you don't need to touch the stone at all. However, if it has worn to near unreadability, solutions like blacklight, rubbings, etc. need to be explored. It will be good to see what the Ontario Cemetery Regulations Act contains, ESPECIALLY if the law contains solutions to that problem. Also, regarding the cemetery transcriptions, that is a good idea - but only if the cemetery has been transcribed - AND if the transcription is accurate. I already have found transcriptions for three stones to be in error - the NAMES were wrong on two of them (one listed the baby's FATHER'S name, not the buried infant's!), and the third person was buried in a totally different cemetery, complete with his own stone there! Shakes your confidence a little... which is why we check more than one place for our information, isn't it? Nancy next door in Michigan where it has cooled a bit but promises another week or so of gorgeous summer - even if the calendar doesn't. And we are sending it your way! Minto_Gal wrote: >Hi everyone. >Here is my two cents worth on the whole issue. >1. If the caretaker tell you not to use something on the tombstone ..LISTEN >to him or her. >The key word is "Cemetery caretaker". Whether you agree or disagree with >the advice given, the bottom line is he or she is IN CHARGE with care and >upkeep of that cemetery. >Legally, he could have you thrown out of the cemetery for vandalism. >Doubt me, then maybe you need to take the time to read all the Ontario >Cemetery Regulations ACT. >What is the correct way to do rubbings?I honestly don't know. Having said >that I would go to an expert and it would come from only two sources; >namely, people who make manufacture monuments or book recommended by them. >I will go one step further and see if I can get an expert to answer this >question. >Today I will e-mail the ministry in charge of cemeteries and ask that one of >their expert give us a clear answer to this question. >Personally, I still maintain a photo and a copy of the cemetery transcripts >for the stone in question make for the best way to resolve the issue. >Sheila >List Mom >

Hello list, could anyone tell me if it was possible that people were burying people in their backyards still in 1912? I have searched many area cemeteries for my great Uncle Arthur Rittwage and haven't had any results yet. His parents, brother and brother's wife are in the Woods cemetery Northumberland, nearest to where they resided, but I cannot find his. If anyone knows of the laws regarding having to bury people in cemeteries could you please inform me? Thankyou. Beverley

If a caretaker and people looking after cemeteries have certain rules that they want followed I certainly do believe that they must be followed, and that we as people doing research within their realm we must follow their guidelines, we certainly would if we were in a libraby or a museum. That headstone that we potentially could be damaging with shaving cream or some sort of other chemically based solution actually does belong to someone, whether it be in perpetual care of a cemetery or family attends the gravesite once a week, we have no business as researchers or hobbyist adding something that could eat away at the structure. Yes, many a chemical reaction has taken place to a stone to be in bad shape not to be able to read it ,so all I say is don't potentially add more chemical reactions, I for one get very annoyed when vandalism takes place in a cemetery, so let us just stop and think what we are doing, if the potential is there to damage is it not a form of vanadalism? Just out of curiosity I looked at two cans of shaving cream in my bathroom this morning, one which is a "gel" type has no ingredients listed, the other has so many ingredients in it I doubt if I would put it on my face, know it 'aint a goin on my legs anymore! Check out the URL below. http://www.savinggraves.org/education/print/shavingcream.htm Christine > I think it is too bad that some cemetery caretakers > (who should know better) believe in these old wives > tales. The idea that shaving cream can cause harm to > > > Moreover, I have seen a lot of claims of shaving cream > doing harm to specific tombstones. But whenever I see > the pictures of the stones, it is always the case that > the imperfections in the stone are CLEARLY caused by > some other process(es), most usually carbonation and > hydrolysis. I even saw one case where a guy showed > some pictures claiming to represent shaving cream > damage - yet he didn't seem to think it was important > to inform the viewer of the pictures that the > tombstones in question had recently been involved in a > raging brushfire - shameless! > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > ==== CA-ONT-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > READ the taglines! > Before you ask for a lookup ...check > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~silentguardians > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >