Hi: I am new on this list. I am looking for information regarding a relative of my wife - a John Stewart b. October 29, 1887, son of the subjects who in 1915 were living at Westwood, Argyll Terrace, Rothesay, Bute. John had two sisters, Jean (b. 1889) and Margaret(Peggy)-(born 1891)who were nurses in Glasgow, and possibly a brother David. David Stewart Sr. was a bootmaker, born 1855, son of Thomas Stewart, cloth merchant, Rothesay and Agnes Hutcheson (married 1835). David had a brother William born in 1837, Thomas Hunter born 1843 and a sister Mary born c.1850. John emigrated to Manitoba, Canada in c.1908. He had had a good education and had been articled to a firm of chartered accountants in Glasgow. He enlisted in the Canadian Army in 1915, served overseas, commissioned at Lieut., March 1918, wounded September 1918, prisoner of war September 1918, repatriated to England 1918. He returned to Canada August 1919 and was discharged from the army in September 1919. He qualified as a chartered accountant in 1924, married my wife's aunt, Ann Flight Johnson (born Tayport, Scotland), had one son Ian John born January 12, 1918. John died in Toronto, Ontario January 7, 1933. Ann died November 16, 1934 in Winnipeg. Any help in expanding, verifying or correcting the information we have collected on this family of Stewarts would be appreciated. Gordon Taylor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/

Hi Anne I can help with regard to James F GILLIES, living with Helen FINNIE as Helen was my gggg'mother ! Sorry, but James died in 1888 so he isn't your James. Did the certificate give either an age, parents / wife's names, or a place of birth ? There are another couple of James in my line so may still be a match somewhere. Graeme Gold Coast Queensland Australia ----- Original Message ----- death certificate which states that James > GILLIES, mechanical engineer, died of myocardial degeneration > One was James F. GILLIES age 14, born Rothesay, Bute, living with his > grandmother Helen FINNIE,

Hello everyone on the Buteshire list, I am new to the list and am wondering if others might be looking for the same ancestors as I am. My 4great-grandparents were John MCCONECHY (or DUNCAN) and Hannah MCKIRDY who were married in Rothesay in 1783. They had the following children all born in Rothesay: 1. Janet b 1784 2. Robert b 1786 3. James b 1788 4. Elizabeth b 1790 5. Isabel b 1792 6. Mary b 1793 7. Hannah b 1795 8. Janet b 1797 9. Elizabeth b 1799 10. John b 1802 11. Donald b 1806 Many members of this family seem to have changed their surname from MCCONECHY to DUNCAN in later years. I look forward to hearing from listmembers. Am glad to share whatever info I have. Thanks, Craig Campbell

Welcome to Jean Campbell and Gordon Taylor who have joined this week. If you haven't already contributed, we hope to hear from you soon. ****** ****** ****** Thanks to those who have or are about to contribute to the Naming Conventions / patterns thread. As a means of tracing earlier generations the use of the maternal maiden name as a second surname is useful, however a note of caution - in many of the larger Victorian era families the later children were often named after one of the godparents in hopes of later generosity. >From my experience, the investigation of the source of these second names is more often frustrating than enlightening. ****** ****** ****** Genealogy tutorials - here is a snippet from the latest RootsWeb Review Vol3 No24 ROOTSWEB'S GUIDE TO TRACING FAMILY TREES http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/ 30 interactive genealogy lessons with links to resources at RootsWeb and elsewhere on the Internet. *Not just for beginners* ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List owner and Co-host with Barbara < babrown@fast.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list. List owner of the SCT-RENFREW and SCT-ARGYLL mailing lists.

Posted on: Buteshire Scotland Queries Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Bute?read=369 Surname: Scott, Crawford ------------------------- John scott married to Jean Hood lived at Plan Farm Had five or six children I am a decendant of matthew Scott

Hi Listers: I am looking for information regarding a relative of my husband. The only information I have on him is his death certificate which states that James GILLIES, mechanical engineer, died of myocardial degeneration on Jan 6, 1940 at 9 Norfolk St., Peterborough. I have tried the various engineering institutes and the Universities at Glasgow and Edinburgh without any luck. My husband thought he was a civil engineer but the death certificate says different. He seems to have spent part of his career abroad as my husband remembers seeing a photograph of him standing under a palm tree. Family members say he was born in Scotland, so as a last resort, I tried the 1881 census for Scotland and found 2 James GILLIES of approximately the right age. One was James F. GILLIES age 14, born Rothesay, Bute, living with his grandmother Helen FINNIE, farmer's widow age 76, born Kingarth, Bute. They were living at 21 Guilford St. Cumbrae, Bute. There were also 2 unmarried brothers, John F. GILLIES, age 27, born Rothesay, Bute, metal merchant and George GILLIES age 23, born Rothesay, Bute, joiner, living at the same address. The other was James GILLIES, age 14, scholar, born Kilmartin, Argyll, living with his father Hugh GILLIES, age 55, gardener (journeyman), born Kilmartin, Argyll at Village of Slockvullin, Kilmartin, Argyll. Also living there were Mary GILLIES, age 23, daughter, housekeeper, born Glassary, Argyll; Jane GILLIES, age 20, daughter, General Servt. Unemployed, born Kilmartin, Argyll; Alice GILLIES, age 17, daughter, General Servt. Unemployed, born Kilmartin, Argyll. If anyone has any information about any of these GILLIES, I would appreciate hearing from them, if only to cross them off my list of possibles. If anyone could suggest any other places where an engineer would have got his credentials in the late 1800s, I would also appreciate hearing from them. Regards Anne Anne Toll Warren, RI

Posted on: Buteshire Scotland Queries Board URL: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Bute?read=368 Surname: ------------------------- Searching for additional information and source materials on this extended family which went by several names from 1650 on (the Isle of) Bute - McIlchattan, McGilchattan (unique surname in Scotland exclusive to this family and the Isle), Toish, Tosh. Have detailed notes, charts and name index resources to compare and share w/ serious researchers. Includes main families 1) of Ardmaleish 2) of Dunalunt 3) of Kilbride (Farmstead) 4) McAlister/Gilchrist 5) Stewart/Lamont of St Colmac. McIlchattan early incomers from various Argyll locales and appears sporadically to 1720's when standardized to McGilchattan which had been used by at least one family since c1650. McGilchattan last used in April 1794 but had been in decline since mid-century when the gaels were transforming into modern Scots. Transitional names Toish (the gaelic version) and Tosh were first used in 1749 and last in 1803. McIntosh begins with Elspeth b 10 Jan 1760 but did not come into general use until the late 1770's-early 1880's. A good example of this transformation is my 4x great uncle who was christened Niel Tosh (l759), married as Niel McGilchattan (l790) but lived the last 60 years of his life as Neil McIntosh and is buried (in R Cem 1853) as such without any reference to his prior identities. In only a very few families is there seen a consistent pattern of surname 'evolution', generally it swings back and forth (and sideways!) within the same family and siblings. I am also working on many related Bute families and direct ancestors: Glass, Bannatyne, McCurdy, Crawford etc.

The two I quoted in the previous post were in the late 1700s and early 1800s. I gave thought to the fact they could be grandmothers, I just can't find out which ones! Jeri

Madeleine; I saw your last posting - 13 June- about this but missed the first one. Could you possibly send me a copy of the scanned image, please. I tried to send you a direct email but had it returned so guess I got your address wrong. Many thanks, Mary H.

In my own family on Bute, second forenames were not used until the 1870s and then in most cases family surnames were used. But the surname was not always that of the mother. I have found paternal grandmother and great grandmother used as well. /cheers Pat -----Original Message----- From: Jeri <zady@bellsouth.net> To: ButeshireGenWeb-L@rootsweb.com <ButeshireGenWeb-L@rootsweb.com> Date: 14 June 2000 20:24 Subject: naming patterns >I thought I'd add a little on the naming patterns for whatever it is worth! >Here in the states I have found many times where the mother or maybe I >should say the maternal maiden names were used in middle names for >girls/boys. At the beginning of 1800s I had one where all 3 girls had the >middle name of CROOM. That pretty much told me that the mother's surname was >CROOM and sure enough it was. Now this may have been an Irish/Scot surname >originally, I haven't gotten them over the pond yet! I have a couple of Bute >ancestors where the girls' middle name was CAMPBELL and another that was >MORRISON, I assume they might be female surnames, but I haven't been able to >put it together yet. > >That's all folks! >Jeri in North Carolina, US >

I thought I'd add a little on the naming patterns for whatever it is worth! Here in the states I have found many times where the mother or maybe I should say the maternal maiden names were used in middle names for girls/boys. At the beginning of 1800s I had one where all 3 girls had the middle name of CROOM. That pretty much told me that the mother's surname was CROOM and sure enough it was. Now this may have been an Irish/Scot surname originally, I haven't gotten them over the pond yet! I have a couple of Bute ancestors where the girls' middle name was CAMPBELL and another that was MORRISON, I assume they might be female surnames, but I haven't been able to put it together yet. That's all folks! Jeri in North Carolina, US

Dear Candace and others, I don't have a pattern for the use of maiden surnames as christian names, however I have generations where children have been given their mother's or grandmother's maiden name as a second christian name. I cannot see a pattern to this and it only seems to happen through my Scottish lines, there is none of this on my three Irish lines. In one family line, with children born between 1855 - 1872, I have a brother and sister both with the same middle name of STEWART which I assume (haven't proved yet) to be their Grandmother's maiden name. In the same family, a further two sisters both have their mother's maiden name as a middle name, this time, ROWAND. These children in turn used their mother's maiden name as a second christian name for my Grandfather, who was William Watson CAMPBELL and one of his sisters was named Margaret Rowand CAMPBELL using her Grandmother's maiden name for a middle name. My Grandfather then carried on this tradition using his mother's maiden name as a second christian name for my mother, while her sister was given the middle name of TAYLOR, which was the maiden name of my Grandmother's mother. Just for the record, I am named Maureen Campbell Tandy, again using my mother's maiden name! I am wondering if this is possibly a tradition limited to Scotland? My theory that the mother's maiden name was used for the first born daughter in order that she would carry on the family name is not upheld as it wasn't the case in my family. I hope this helps in a little way! Best Wishes Maureen

Hello, My name is Linda and I emmigrated as a child with my family from Rothesay in 1949. My maternal grandparents, David Walker & Elizabeth McCrone moved to the Island after their marriage in Paisley in 1914. The Walkers operated a drapery buisness. The Walker children all attended the Rothesay Academy, I believe in burnt down in 1956. My mother, second of 4 children, married James McAleese, son of James McAleese & Jessie Montgomery. The McAleese' operated a radio shop in Rothesay. I am interested in discovering more about the Island for the period between 1914 - 1940. Is there a historical society of Bute or perhaps a book availabe? I am looking forward to participating in the future Cheerio, Linda.

Hi Madeleine What a great memory you have! Yes, please send the attachment - "my" George HALLIDAY was listed as "joiner and timber merchant Kame Saw Mill, Bute" when he married Janet Shaw MENZIES on 19 April 1870. His father was Malcolm HALLIDAY (married Janet McCallum 6 February 1840) and his Uncle was George HALLIDAY (married Mary CAMPBELL 12 July 1851) --- Malcolm died January 1867 and George Sr died in October 1860 ....... George Jr died in March 1915! Janelle Canberra, Australia aurora@dynamite.com.au Researching Davie, Halliday, Barr, Taylor, Menzies Hi Janelle, I'm pasting below a copy of a message I'm sending to the Bute mailing list. Note the reference to the name HALLIDAY. This image is of a postcard circa 1904 that I bought a month or so ago. Let me know if you want me to send it to you as a attachment, Regards Madeleine Those of you who took up the offer of a scanned image of Port Banntyne sawmill might be interested to know I have found out a bit more about the mill, thanks to the generous help of Bute Museum. I think this might be the Kames saw mill that Janelle was asking about a while ago. The exact date of the building of the original mill is not know but there is a reference to it in 1693. It was quite a prosperous lint mill. At one time flax was grown on the island. It was steeped in pools, beaten and hackled at the mill, with the spinning being done in workers' houses. When the trade declined the owner of the Kames estate converted it into a sawmill, circa 1860. George HALLIDAY was the first tenant. It ceased to operate, probably in the 1920s. The wheel was in place up until about 1940. The cottage has been a private house for many years. It is about a quarter of a mile from Kames Castle, on the road to Rhubodach. Madeleine Wales

Hello to everyone, Those of you who took up the offer of a scanned image of Port Bannatyne sawmill might be interested to know I have found out a bit more about the mill, thanks to the generous help of Bute Museum. I think this might be the Kames saw mill that Janelle was asking about a while ago. The exact date of the building of the original mill is not know but there is a reference to it in 1693. It was quite a prosperous lint mill. At one time flax was grown on the island. It was steeped in pools, beaten and hackled at the mill, with the spinning being done in workers' houses. When the trade declined the owner of the Kames estate converted it into a sawmill, circa 1860. George HALLIDAY was the first tenant. It ceased to operate, probably in the 1920s. The wheel was in place up until about 1940. The cottage has been a private house for many years. It is about a quarter of a mile from Kames Castle, on the road to Rhubodach. Madeleine Wales

Please remember to send ALL mail for the list to ButeshireGenWeb-L@rootsweb.com no matter whether you are subscribed to List or Digest mode, and just use the -request@ address for subscribe and unsubscribe messages, thanks -----Original Message----- From: Marilyn Cameron <camo@standard.net.au> To: ButeshireGenWeb-L-request@rootsweb.com <ButeshireGenWeb-L-request@rootsweb.com> Date: Monday, 12 June 2000 9:55 Subject: re Naming Conventions >Dear Candace >My Scottish Ancestors in one branch of the family also used family >surnames, but as middle names sometimes 2or3 my grandmother being Jane >McDougall Lorne McVean other family members had a mixture of family >christian and surnames in the middle but I have not been able to >establish a pattern >I would also be interested if anyone knows of a surname naming >convention >Regards >Marilyn Cameron >Beautiful sunshine on a winters day here in Warrnambool >

Hi Candy > Has anyone heard of a naming convention using maiden surnames, rather than first names? Yes ! or at least sort of. In one of the cases I have, William GILLIES married Agnes FINNIE. 3 of their 7 children were: John Finnie GILLIES (their first child); Agnes Finnie GILLIES (2nd daughter) & James Finnie GILLIES (5th son); all of whom were born in Rothesay, Bute. In this case, at least, the normal naming convention i.e. using mothers & fathers parents names didn't fully apply because William's father was Thomas & they didn't name any of their children Thomas; but, Agnes's mother was Helen & their first daughter was either Ellen or Helen (2 sources have 2 names). After looking at all my Scottish names, I am afraid that this "convention" apparently wasn't a "conventional" as it could have been :-) Good luck Graeme Gold Coast Queensland Australia

Madeleine, thanks for the response.... Has anyone heard of a naming convention using maiden surnames, rather than first names? Example: My grandparents named their first born Newell Bailey Jones. NEWELL was the maiden surname of my grandmother's GRANDMOTHER. BAILEY was the maiden surname of my grandmother's MOTHER. (Or, it could be my grandfather's mother. Both were Baileys.) I've always wondered if this was just something my grandparents did, or if it was an accepted naming convention. Thanks -

The lib. referred to is pound as well from libra - the scales - and from which the pound sign originated. (The pound was at one stage the value of a pound weight of silver.) Reading through the Kirk session records recently I was struck by the thought that the size of the fines levied for various sexual indiscretions seemed to match the immediate alms requirements within parish. Perhaps it is the cynic in me however some of the fines were to be paid directly by the transgressors to the needy!!! Bill M.

Hello everyone, The correspondence about poor relief and the kirk session reminded me of an article about Rothesay beggars' badges in the 1945 Transactions of the Buteshire Natural History Society. I was pleased to find it because I had been puzzled by occasional references in the kirk session minutes to so-and-so "being awarded a badge". The article by the Rev James Hay Hamilton says; " The Kirk session of each parish allocated all church collections to the relief of poverty stricken persons living within the bounds, and this money was supplemented by the fines which they were empowered to impose for breaches of church discipline, and from other sources. Despite these measures, the funds received were quite inadequate to cope with the need, and Kirk Sessions were in the habit of giving badges or tokens to poor deserving persons to entitle them to the privilege of eking out their living by begging. "The law was very severe in its punishment of able-bodied beggars and vagabonds, but when badges or licences were granted to poor people by competent authorities these badge-bearers or licence-holders were allowed to beg with impunity." There are specimens of these large metal badges in Bute Museum. The badge was said to be a valuable privilege and could represent a considerable yearly income, Madeleine