This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: COX Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/450 Message Board Post: Can anyone please tell me if there is a cemetery at Lamlash.I am looking for the burial of Raydon Kelso Cox who died at Lamlash on 27th January 1948.I would appreciate it if anyone can tell me if there is a gravestone, and how I can find out how he died without it costing me an arm and a leg.Thanks.

I can add another name to the Rothesay Police force, however, despite the name have no known connection to this family. The details come from the 1851 Census. Enumeration number 61 After 40 Montague St (actual number not given) Daniel McKinlay Head M 33 Police man Mary McKinlay Wife M 35 Mary McKinlay Daur U 6 Isabella McKinlay Daur U 4 Margaret McKinlay Daur U 1 All were recorded as having been born in Rothesay. Reid, in his statistics related to the county for 1861 gives the following data. Police of Rothesay reported efficient-- No. of police force in the county................................7 Population to one constable...................................1287 Yearly pay of chief constable...........................£105 0 0 No. of police force in Rothesay................................. 5 Population to one constable..................................1424 Yearly pay of superintendent.............................£53 0 0 Crime Average number of criminal offenders in the county of Bute during the five quinquennial terms from 1836 to 1860 and in 1860-61; 1836-1840.................11 1841-1845.................15 1846-1850.................10 1851-1855.................13 1856-1860.................18 1860..........................21 1861..........................31 Number confined in Rothesay prison during the year ending 30th June 1861 was 60. Average duration of confinement was 43 days. Net cost per head after deducting earnings...............£32 9 0 N.B. - the average cost over Scotland, £21 17s 1d Expenditure under prison board, chargeable on the general fund for the year ending 30th June 1861, £268 0 0. Bill

Hello one and all, As Christine introduced herself, I thought I should take the opportunity as well. My interest in Bute is mostly historical. My ancestors, the MacKirdys, came from Bute, but that was in 1663, so I am not hoping to make too many connections. <G> I AM interested however in the history of the isle and in the history of my family on it and the family there today. So I am really just here to listen and learn, and maybe ask an occasional question. Marla Fair in the USA - researching the MacKirdys of Bute as well as Antrim and Londonderry, Ireland (where they emigrated to.) Blessings!

I have recently rejoined this List after a few weeks absence, caused by a change in my computer and (coincidentally simultaneous) disruption in my email system created by my ISP. This therefore seems a suitable moment to repost my interest in the three main families that I am investigating in Bute. Peter TAYLOR, my g.g. grandfather, came from West Kilbride to Bute at some time in the 1830s, with his wife, Julia ORR, and their children, John, Robert, Peter (my g. grandfather), Ann, Elizabeth and Joanna - James, their eldest child, may possibly have died by then. Another child, Isabella, was born in Bute in c.1838 (variously reported as Kingarth and Rothesay). Peter senior, variously described during his lifetime as a Farm labourer, Victualler, Gardener and Quarryman, died in Rothesay in 1861. His daughter, Ann, died in Rothesay, unmarried, in 1873. The other members of the family all moved at variouis times to Glasgow or to Edinburgh. I have extensive information on their descendants - particularly through Peter junior. A sister of Peter senior, Catherine TAYLOR, also came from West Kilbride to Bute, with her husband, Archibald MALCOM, a weaver, in (probably) the 1850s. They died there in 1885 and 1879 respectively and their gravestone can be seen in North Bute churchyard. I have a lot of information about the MALCOMs - they almost always spelled their name without a second "L" - and am in touch with living members of that family. They claim - with how much accuracy I do not know - to descend from shipwrecked survivors of a vessel of the Spanish Armada. A daughter of Archibald MALCOM and Catherine TAYLOR, married James HOGARTH in West Kilbride in 1856, and they too came to Bute. (Another branch of the HOGARTH family was there already, and I have been able to link the two branches together through common ancestors - James HOGARTH and Isabella WALLACE, who married in Rothesay in 1786. As with the TAYLORs and the MALCOMs, I have a lot of information about the HOGARTHs - many of them were herring fishermen in the early days - and am in touch with living members of that family. One descendant of these HOGARTHs, Bill HOGARTH, was the General Secretary of the National Union of Seamen at the time of his death in 1973, well respected by the moderates in that movement. Does any of this ring bells with members of the List? I would be glad to share information with any who are similarly interested. Martyn At Brockenhurst in southern England

Hello everyone, Good to hear from you both, Christine and Marla. Christine mentioned an interest in policing in Bute. The first police force in Bute was Rothesay Burgh Police, formed in 1846 and its first regular police officer was William NEILSON, the harbourmaster. In 1847, the Police Committee (six members, including the provost and two bailies) acquired the use of a building in High Street as a lock-up house. In 1847, also, a further police officer was appointed to assist William Neilson and by 1858 the strength of the force had increased to one superintendent and four constables. The Superintendent was Daniel DUNCAN, whose wages were 19s per week. All the above info comes from The Policing of Rothesay by George N Paterson in the 1985 Transactions of the Buteshire Natural History Society. Other early officers' names mentioned include Angus McALPINE and Matthew WATERS. By 1892 the strength of Rothesay Police had risen to eight. The Transactions paper says that in 1858, Bute County Police was formed when John MACKAY and William MUNRO, both from the Sutherland village of Reay (now Dounreay) were appointed Chief Constable and Sergeant of Bute County Police respectively. The jurisdiction was over the whole of the county of Bute, with the exception of Rothesay which still had its own force. The two forces were amalgamated in 1923. If anyone would like more detail on any of this, just let me know off list. Obviously there was policing going on in Bute before 1846, but I am not sure how it was organised. Hopefully someone else can help. Madeleine

There would appear to be something of a parallel between Provost Munn and Neil Jamieson who became Provost in 1845. Jamieson had a large cooperage in Castle Street, on the site now occupied by the "Buteman" newspaper office. At the time of the disruptions, the Rev. Robert Craig left the established church for the free church and prior to the construction of the East Free Church, the cooperage, despite it's leaky roof, was used by the Revd. Craigs congregation. I believe also that Jamieson contributed substantially to the provision of a manse in Ardbeg Road. These must have been rather interesting times within the council as there must have been a very close relationship between parochial and burgh affairs with many of the participants involved with both. In 1842 the council petitioned Parliament to repeal the acts relating to patronage of the Church of Scotland which was one of the grievances that led to the split in the church the following year.

Hello to all, I would like to introduce myself and list my interests, as I have just joined the list. My name is Christine Mladen, and I live in Ontario, Canada (but a true Scot - born in Scotland). My genealogy interests for Bute are the surnames MC ALLISTER or MAC ALASTER, SHARP, and BANNATYNE. I would also like to find information about policing in Bute, as well as ships and their owners. Sincerely Christine Mladen Ontario, Canada

I omitted to paste in the following description of how the council elections were conducted - again quoted from Reid. "From 1720 till 1862 - elected at Michaelmas, each year, till 1833 and in November thereafter as under. Before 1833 the mode of election was as follows:- The old magistrates and old council chose four of the old council and one of the old magistrates, who chose the whole of the council for the ensuing year. The old and new Council chose the Magistrates." Not exactly a democratic process but I guess it provided a degree of consistency and continuity! Bill

Provosts and Bailies of Bute 1720-1862 This information from J.E. Reid's "History of the County of Bute and families connected therewith" N.B. Prior to 1852 there were two bailies, after that, three. Year Provost Bailies 1720 David Glass John McNeil, Robert Stewart 1721 David Glass John McNeil, Robert Stewart 1722 David Glass John McNeil, Thomas Wallace 1723 David Glass Thomas Wallace, John Hamilton 1724-25 James Stewart Thomas Wallace, John Hamilton 1726 David Glass Thomas Wallace, John Hamilton 1727 David Glass Thomas Wallace, Alexander Ramsay 1728 David Glass Alexander Ramsay, John Hamilton 1729 David Glass Alexander Ramsay, John Campbell 1730 Thomas Wallace, elder Alexander Ramsay, Thomas Wallace 1731-34 Robert Wallace Alexander Ramsay, Thomas Wallace 1735-36 Robert Wallace John Pate, Thomas Wallace 1737-44 Robert Wallace Thomas Wallace, Alexander Ramsay 1745-46 Hugh McBryde of Braidland Thomas Wallace, Alexander Ramsay 1747 Hugh McBryde Thomas Wallace, Duncan McLea 1748 Hugh McBryde Robert Stewart, Duncan McLea 1749 Hugh McBryde James Campbell, Duncan McLea 1750 Hugh McBryde Alexander Glass, Duncan McLea 1751-53 Hugh McBryde Alexander Glass, Daniel McKinlay 1754-55 Hugh McBryde Alexander McGown, Daniel McKinlay 1756-57 Hugh McBryde Duncan McLea, Daniel McKinlay 1758-59 John Dunlop Duncan McLea, Daniel McKinlay 1760 John Dunlop John Robertson, Daniel McKinlay 1761-64 John Dunlop Archibald Muir, Daniel McKinlay 1765 David Blair of Giffordland Archibald Muir, Daniel McKinlay 1766 David Blair Daniel McKinlay, James Logie 1767-70 David Blair James Logie, Archibald Campbell 1771 John Dunlop Daniel McKinlay, Archibald Muir 1772-73 John Dunlop Daniel McKinlay, John Blain 1774-76 John Dunlop Daniel McKinlay, Duncan Bruce 1777-78 Duncan McMillan Daniel McKinlay, Duncan Bruce 1779-82 Peter May James Logie, John Robertson 1783-84 Peter May James Logie, Archibald Muir 1785-87 Peter May Archibald Muir, Thomas McKinlay jnr. 1788 John, Lord Cardiff James Logie, John Campbell 1789 John, Lord Cardiff James Logie, (died in office) John Campbell, Archibald Muir 1790-91 John, Lord Cardiff John Campbell, Archibald Muir 1792 Earl of Bute Archibald Campbell, Archibald Moore 1793 John, Lord Mountstuart (died in office) Archibald Moore, Robertson Buchanan 1794 John, Earl of Bute Archibald Moore, Robertson Buchanan 1795 John, Earl of Bute Archibald Moore, Alexander May 1796-02 John, Marquis of Bute Archibald Moore, Alexander May 1803 Marquis of Bute Archibald Muir, Duncan Brown 1804-06 Marquis of Bute John Blain, Duncan Brown 1807-09 Marquis of Bute John Blain, Charles McKinlay 1810-12 Marquis of Bute John Blain, John Gillies 1813-15 Marquis of Bute John Blain, William Gillies 1816-18 Hon. P.J.H. Stuart John Blain, Robert McKirdy 1819 Marquis of Bute Archibald Moore, John Gillies 1820 Marquis of Bute John Gillies, John McKinlay 1821 Marquis of Bute John McKinlay, Bryce Stewart 1822-24 Marquis of Bute Archibald Moore, William Gillies 1825 Marquis of Bute William Gillies, John McKinlay 1826-27 Hon. P.J.H. Stuart (aka Lord James Stuart) William Gillies, John McKinlay 1828 Lord James Stuart William Gillies, Charles McKinlay 1829 Marquis of Bute William Gillies, Charles McKinlay 1830-31 Marquis of Bute Charles McKinlay, John Muir 1832 Marquis of Bute Charles McKinlay, William Gillies 1833-34 Marquis of Bute William Gillies, Archibald McIndoe 1835 Marquis of Bute Archibald McIndoe, Robert McKirdy 1836 Marquis of Bute Robert McKirdy, Archibald Sharp. Both resigned when Archibald McIndoe and Neil McIntosh were appointed 1837-38 Marquis of Bute Archibald McIndoe, Neil McIntosh 1839-42 Archibald McIndoe Neil McIntosh, Neil Jamieson 1843-44 Archibald McIndoe Archibald Sharp, Robert Stewart 1845 Neil Jamieson Archibald Sharp, Robert Stewart 1846 Neil Jamieson Robert Stewart, Dugald Munn 1847 Neil Jamieson Robert Stewart, Thomas McLachlan 1848 Archibald Sharp Thomas McLachlan, John McEwen 1849-50 Archibald Sharp John McEwen, Dugald Munn 1851 Thomas Gibson M.D. Dugald Munn, Archibald Brown 1852-53 Thomas Gibson M.D. Dugald Munn, Archibald Brown, Neil Campbell 1854 Thomas Gibson M.D. Dugald Munn, Archibald Brown, Ronald Kelly 1855-56 Dugald Munn Ronald Kelly, Archibald Brown, James Muir 1857 Dugald Munn* Archibald Brown, James Muir, Archibald McKirdy 1858 John McEwen James Muir. Archibald McKirdy, Mathew Sharp 1850-60 John McEwen Archibald McKirdy, Mathew Sharp, Peter Brown 1861 Archibald McKirdy Mathew Sharp, Peter Brown, Charles Duncan 1862 Archibald McKirdy Charles Duncan, John McAllister, James Muir * Provost Munn died 2nd February 1858, when Bailie Brown was elected ad interim.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/437.1 Message Board Post: I have quite a few Lamonts from the Bute area. Originally married into the Blue family. Any connection? Patti Walsh (pwalsh@foleyhoag.com)

The information contained in Bill McKinlay 's posting re the Provosts and baillies provides a fascinating addition to the names of those who in the past influenced the the growth and development of Bute . I noted with interest the name Dugald Munn who was a Baillie and latterly Provost , dying in Office in 1858 . He was a solicitor in the firm Munn and Stewart and was married to an Elizabeth Stewart . He is mentioned in Archibald Brown's printed lecture of 1922 on "Port Bannatyne - Past and Present " a copy of which is in the Rothesay Library .He had come at the Disruption in the Kirk on the side of the Frees and when the congregation were refused permision to build a kirk and manse , Munn offered them the ground in PB on which it was built . His daughter Isabella Fisher Munn married James Lamont , a banker who resided at Fircliff, and grand son of John Lamont or McPhorich of Port Bannatyne . John , my 4 x great grand father had been evicted from a croft in Cowal for being a Seceeder and had settled in PB where he established a small church in the attic of his home in 1802 . He was instrumental in the rescue of the Baptist preacher McArthur who was press ganged illegally by the laird , Southhall on the day prior to the Battle of Trafalgar . Many of the Bute Lamonts went to the US , settling in Delaware Co , New York State . Daniel Scott Lamont a direct descendant became Secretary of State for War in Cleveland ' s administration and a founder member of the Clan Lamont Society in Scotland . I currently correspond with a number of these Lamont descendants and have built up through joint effort a detailed history and genealogy of their story . Colin Lamont Mayall in Crieff .

Oddly enough, I was thinking of posting this when Peter's Sunday musings came up The following extract comes from transactions of the Buteshire Natural History Society in 1933 in an article entitled “Rothesay 100 years ago.” It covers the events surrounding the 1833 election and was sent to me recently. "The cause of Burghal Reform was again raised in 1817 almost by accident. The election of the Town Council in Montrose had been declared void owing to a technical point, and a new Charter was issued, under which all burgesses were to vote in the first election. In future elections the merchants, and not the old Town Council, were to be the electors. The Burgh Reformers at once seized on this as an excuse to renew their agitation. Again there were strikes and riots, and Sir William Rae. Lord Advocate and M.P. for Bute, had a difficult time. Ultimately a Parliamentary Reform Bill was introduced into Parliament and passed its second reading in 1831, but was defeated in its third reading, and a second Bill perished in the Lords. In the following year the Parliamentary Reform Act was passed, and was followed in 1833 by the Scottish Burgh Reform Act. By it, householders in Burghs rated at £10 replaced the electorate of self elected Town Councils. After the passing of these Acts there were rejoicings all over Scotland, but so far as records go Rothesay had not been troubled by either riots or rejoicings. The Act continued the number of Councilors in Rothesay at 17, being the number of Councillors in the old Council according to the Set of the Burgh. The number was increased to 18 in 1852. In addition to the change in the electorate, some changes were made in the qualification for a Councilor, e.g., the Town Clerk was no longer eligible, and the Councillors were required to be burgesses resident or personally carrying on business in the Burgh. The first election in November 1833, must have been a keen one. The electorate numbered 202, and there were 66 candidates. The system of voting was open, each elector handing the returning officer a signed list of his preferences. 182 electors or 90% voted. The poll was topped by Archibald McIndoe, who beat the Marquis of Bute by two votes. This was a personal triumph for Mr McIndoe, as be had not been a member of the old Council. The changes in the Council were less numerous than one might have expected. Four old members were replaced by four new ones. Of the old members who retired, Alexander Irvine was Sheriff Substitute, and Archibald Moore had retired from the Factorship of the Bute Estate. The other two were James Muir (farmer, Barone Park), and Ivie H. MacRae, the Agent of the Renfrewshire Bank. The new members were Archibald McIndoe, John MacKinlay (merchant, and proprietor of a house in Castle Street), Daniel Thompson (merchant, whose property was in High Street, apparently at Broadcroft), and John McFie, drapers. The Marquis was re-elected Provost, and Mr McIndoe was elected a Bailie. He afterwards became Provost (1839-45). Other prominent men elected were Charles McKinlay, tanner; John Muir, factor to the Marquis of Bute; Archibald Sharp, afterwards Provost (1848-51), and father of Provost Robert Sharp; Archibald McKirdy, builder, father of Provost Archibald McKirdy; Neil Jamieson, fish merchant, who occupied the Provost’s chair from 1845-1848." The poll results were. 1 Archibald McIndoe he having 175 votes 2 The Most Honourable the Marquis of Bute he having 173 votes 3 Charles MacKinlay he having 173 votes 4 John McKinlay he having 173 votes 5 John Muir he having 149 votes 6 Archibald Sharp he having 136 votes 7 James Duncan he having 132 votes 8 James Miller he having 129 votes 9 William Gillies he having 120 votes 10 Alexander Brown he having 119 votes 11 Archibald McKirdy he having 118 votes 12 Daniel Thompson he having 117 votes 13 Neil Jamieson he having 114 votes 14 Robert McKirdy he having 104 votes 15 Archibald McLea he having 104 votes 16 Neil McIntosh he having 101 votes 17 John McFie he having 88 votes I'll post some other bits separately when I get them typed up. Bill

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Beattie, MacMillan Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/449 Message Board Post: Looking for family of George Beattie and his wife Ann (MacMillan) Beattie. Children born on Bute and/or Arran, Scotland in early to mid 1800's. Thank you.

Welcome to Tina Mesenbrink who has joined this week. If you haven't already contributed, we hope to hear from you soon. ****** ****** ****** The just completed Australian Federal Election prompted me to wonder what effect elections had on our ancestors. Obviously few of them actually voted - some possibly in Rothesay, but the majority would simply have been affected by the various acts of parliament. Those that imposed taxes on Salt, Kelp for example, and of course those acts on the control of Liquor in all its forms, etc. That leads to the question - Were any of your ancestor's involved in smuggling - either as smugglers or on the side of the authorities? ****** ****** ****** Total change of tack, following a couple of successes this week, have you used the RootsWeb PML service? It is useful to keep tabs on those vague links that you are intending to get around to following up 'some time' ! You enter your name and place details, and the PML program sends you an e-mail alert each time a message is sent to any, that's right any RootsWeb list that matches your search info. For best results, I use NAME near Place - this cuts out for example, those messages that have NAME at the start of a message and Place in the sig file. For more info on PML, visit http://pml.rootsweb.com/ ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown@fast.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list.

Welcome to 'QQLindy' and 'mmjmm' who have joined this week. If you haven't already contributed, we hope to hear from you soon. ****** ****** ****** Re: "Request for listowner" posted earlier in the week - response as promised, following consultation with co-host Barbara: 1 Firstly, in response to Kathy's comment that all the Scottish lists she subscribes to use a subject prefix, I have to say that the Renfrewshire and Dunbartonshire lists are another two that do not use the prefix, so the implication that this list is the odd one out is not correct. There are also many other lists which do not use the prefix. 2 There are valid reasons for this non use of the prefix - all messages to each RootsWeb based list have their "To" address changed to the list name. Therefore, all you need to do is to include the 'To' column in your inbox display. George, this also helps to weed out spam messages as they are so often NOT addressed to the recipient. Alternatively if you have one of the more robust e-mail programs, you can sort your mail into secondary folders based on the "To", "From", "Subject" or even in some cases on Keywords in the message. 3 A bit of history for newer members, apologies to the old hands - this list began without a prefix, then the original list maintainer added one. Shortly after taking over, I issued a Request for Vote (RFV) on keeping or removing the prefix. The result of the RFV appeared in Musings #5 mid January 1999 ... "Firstly the result of the RFV, which was for removal by a clear majority. The list name has therefore been removed from the subject line of messages to this list. Thanks to those who voted, and commiserations to those who wanted the name to remain - remember I can probably help you overcome the problem if you use IE4, and Barbara can if you use Netscape." So, as it has worked well in its current form for over 2 years, I do not intend to change the way the subject appears for the Bute list. The final sentence of that earlier message still holds except that my system has progressed to IE5 & Outlook Express - our addresses are, as usual, at the end of this posting for anyone who wants to avail themselves of our assistance. ****** ****** ****** It seems that the virus which sends rather large attachments and begins with 'I send you this file in order to have your advice' is doing the rounds again. As always, do not open unsolicited attachments, no matter how enticing. "****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown@fast.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list.

Request noted - this will be answered in my regular Sunday post.

QQLindy asked >Does anyone know what a yell beast is? A hardy breed of cattle, bred for meat as distinct from Milk Cows (whose use is clear) - the term is used extensively in John Burrel's Arran Journal. Peter

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Farmer Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/448 Message Board Post: I would like to know the name of my G grandmother. My grandmother was Jane or Jean Farmer, she married John Rippie. My mother was Agnes Rippie. She was born on Isle of Bute Rothesay Sep 16,1896

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/444.1 Message Board Post: Anthony Duncan & Janet Bell were my g-g-g-gp. On your Family Tree 2 my grandmother was Euphemia Bell [b. 9 Nov 1879 d. 6 Feb 1973]. She married John Cassels; their children were Mary 26 Jan 1900, William 4 Aug 1901, John 10 Jun 1905, Duncan Bell 25 Jul 1906, Colin Young 24 Jan 1909, Anne Young 1918. Mary Cassels married John Cunningham in 1932 and I was born 9 Oct 1933. Also on your Family Tree 2, I have been in spasmodic e-mail touch with Judith Bell, wife of Graham Robert Douglas Bell, son of Robert Bell & Ena Hendren. Graham & Judith live in Havelock North, NZ. Hope this is of some interest / use. John

I agree that this would be highly desirable. With all the scams and viruses going around, I often delete any messages, unread, if I cannot tell where they are coming from. George Sanborn Kathy Tolman wrote: > List owner, > > On all of my other mailing lists in Scotland, there is something in the > subject line indicating that the message is from the mailing list. For > example, the Ayrshire list shows [AYR] before the message subject. Is > there some way to do this for the Buteshire list? > > Thank you. > Kathy Tolman > > ==== ButeshireGenWeb Mailing List ==== > *********************************************************************** > The Buteshire GenWeb page is at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctbutes/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237