The SCT BDM Exchange site has been updated again. We've now reached 10,328 records!! 3,464 Births 1,555 Deaths 3,115 Marriages 1,542 Baptisms 49 Burials 603 Banns Please bear in mind that if you have made a submission that is not yet listed, I update one section at a time. The dates each section has been updated is listed on the home page. To view the site, go to - http://www.sctbdm.com/ Cheers Sue Lund
No new members this week ****** ****** ****** Problems @ home.com The following subscribers have been removed due to continuing bounces by their ISP dajackson@mail.wpnr1.mb.wave.home.com jfinley77@mail.casper1.wy.home.com If any subscriber has an alternate means of contacting either of the above (that is other than the short form address @home.com), please let them know that the reason I cannot maintain their subscription rests with @home.com and not with RootsWeb.. ****** ****** ****** After the burst of Viruses, it is perhaps time for a bit of recycled humour ... > Question: How many E Mail List Subscribers does it take to change a > light bulb? > * > * > * > Answer: 1,001 > > 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the > light bulb has been changed. > > 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the > light bulb could have been changed differently. > > 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. > > 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing > light bulbs. > > 53 to flame the spell checkers > > 106 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light > bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to the mail list. > > 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. > > 99 to post that the list is not about light bulbs and to please > take this email exchange to private email > > 113 to demand that cross posting to other mail lists about changing > light bulbs be stopped. > > 101 to defend the posting to the list saying that we all use light > bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. > > 156 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, > where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work > best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. > > 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs > > 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post > corrected URLs. > > 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to > this list which makes light bulbs relevant to the list. > > 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all > headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." > > 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they > cannot handle the light bulb controversy. > > 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." > > 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. > > 1 to propose a new "Lite Bulb Changing" Mail List. > > 47 to say this is just what the Mail List was meant for > > 123 votes for the new Mail List And if those values don't add up, don't blame me :-) ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown@fast.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list.
Please note my E-mail address has been changed from dajackson@home.com Regards Ann
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Doull, Charleson Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/SeC.2ACI/268.2 Message Board Post: I have a Elspet DOULL (born 1735) father George DOULL of Wick in my tree. She married a William CHARLESON and they had James CHARLESON (1765) and Isobel (1758). Is this any connection to your family?
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Doull, Charleson Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/SeC.2ACI/268.1 Message Board Post: I have a Elspet DOULL (born 1735) father George DOULL of Wick in my tree. She married a William CHARLESON and they had James CHARLESON (1765) and Isobel (1758). Is this any connection to your family?
Further to Madeleine's posting re tenant in Lochly, whilst I have no specific information about that particular locality, multiple tenancies seem to have been both common on Bute but also fairly unique to the island. The exact reason for this not known to me but I suspect that two causes may be relevant. Firstly, in the early 1500s there were around 80 landholders outside the burgh of Rothesay but 200 years later that number had dropped to half a dozen, the majority having been bought out by the Stewart family (the hereditary Sheriffs/Earls of Bute.) A lot of the properties it seems were amalgamated into larger units however still supported more than one family. The Old parish Registers reveal that a lot of those living at these farm settlements were also seamen/fishermen. As the Herring fishing season lasted 6 months, it seems logical, to me anyway, that the men involved, and their families, would require somewhere to live and an income/subsistence for the rest of the year. (This certainly applied to some of my own ancestors who co-tenanted Glenchromag on the Western shore of Loch Fad with a family of McConachys from approx.. 1730 to 1770 but were also fishermen.) I also strongly suspect that there is a clear distinction in the Parish registers of the terms "in Lochly" for example and "tenant in Lochly" with reference to an individual although until the tenancy records held by the Mountstuart trust are made available to researchers - in they ever are - there is always likely to be some doubt. About the only way I can think of to determine whether Lochly was co-tenanted at the time in question would be to laboriously plough through the OPRs at a Family History Centre to see whether another family name turns up also associated with the same place. This of course only works one way as absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!!! Cheers Bill
(Footnote, page 106) * This was written about 1802. The mill was built in 1778, and added to afterwards. The following advertisement may prove interesting: Glasgow Mercury, 28th July, 1785. Sale of a Cotton Mill. To be sold by public roup, on Tuesday, the 20th day of September next, in the Tontine Coffee-house, Glasgow,The Cotton Mill, late erected at Rothesay, in the island of Bute; with the whole carding, roving, and spinning machinery therein, compleat for near 1000 spindles, all constructed on the most approved principles, and, it is allowed, produces twist of the very best quality. As also about 20 spinning jeanies, all new, and in complete condition, and chiefly calculated for fine wefts. The situation of this work is very favourable for obtaining any number of hands that may be necessary for carrying on the business. For particulars, apply to David Orr, at the warehouse of Brown & Co., calico printers in Glasgow. The state of machinery, produce, wages, etc., is as follows: Spindles drove by water, including a few worked by the hand in the large, or new, mill 7696 Spindles drove by steam in the old mill 5000 Total spindles 12696 Yarn spun per day in both mills, 750 lit., or 20,000 hanks. Cloth wove per day from part of the above yarn, 42 pieces, or 1176 yards. The remainder of the yarn is sent to Glasgow, and sold there, as is also the cloth. Raw wool used per day 940 lit. Gross wages of the works per day £42. Average cost of the raw wool 2s 6d per lit. The weaving is in the blunk or calico line, for which Blackburn, in Lancashire, has been celebrated. It was begun here by people brought from Blackburn at the expense of the present proprietors of the works, in the year 1792, and has succeeded so well that the Rothesay calicoes vie in the market with those of Blackburn, and always fetch as high a price. Their first out establishment for weaving was at Millport, in the island of Meikle Cumbray, where it has received, and continues to receive, considerable support from Captain James Crawford, who built a shop for the purpose, in the year 1796, to contain sixteen looms. The weaving at present stands as follows: In Rothesay 113 looms. Port-Bannatyne, and other country places in Bute, 25 Cumbray 27 Largs 10 Lochgilphead 13 Tarbert 12 Total looms 200. The works which were established in Rothesay by Mr Kenyon, as stated in the foregoing extract from Mr Blains manuscript, belonged to Anderson, Fullerton & Dunlop, in 1801, and were sold to Messrs William Kelly and Robert Thom some time between 1811 and 1813. In January, 1826, Mr Kelly retired and sold the works to Mr Thorn, who thus became the sole proprietor, and also acquired the estate of Ascog, which still belongs to his heirs. Thereafter Mr Thom assumed Mr Struthers into the firm. Afterwards the present highly-respected proprietor, Mr Duncan Salmond, along with Mr Struthers, purchased the works, and upon the latter gentleman retiring, Mr Salmond became the sole proprietor, under the firm of Duncan Salmond & Co. These works, consisting of the old and new buildings, capable of working 16,000 spindles, are known by the name of The Old Mill but there are in Rothesay three other extensive cotton worksnamely, those of Messrs Archibald & John McKirdy, the senior partner being now Provost of Rothesay;their work contains 305 looms, with preparation therefor, and employs 210 workers; those of Messrs Sharp, Thomson & Co., which are new and very complete, and contain 390 looms, 27,000 spindles, and employ about 400 hands; and those of Messrs Doig & Co., built in 1840, containing 280 looms, with preparation for the same, and employing 190 workers.
Christine, Here is some more background on the Rothesay cotton mills. As it is rather lengthy I have split it into 2 postings. It comes from J.E. Reid's History of the county of Bute p103-108 (1864) but extensively quotes J. Blains manuscripts of circa 1810. Mr Arkwright having enjoyed a patent whereby the spinning of cotton yarn in England by means of machinery was limited to him and his assigns for a term of years, the late James Kenyon of Sheffield had, in 1779, the address to buy off from about Mr Arkwrights works some men who were known to understand the construction and working of machinery. With the assistance of these, he proposed to establish a business of cotton spinning on this side of the English border; and, towards accomplishing that object, sent two of his friends to wait on the Earl of Hopeton, in the view of obtaining in lease a proper situation whereon to form his projected establishment within the bounds of the Marquis of Annandales estate. The idea went no farther than merely to have the yarn spun out of England, and to carry it immediately to that country for sale, or to be wrought up. Such, however, was the situation of the Annandale estate at the time that, though the Earl had the management of it, he could not grant leases to endure longer than nineteen years. The late Robert Oliphant of Rossie, Postmaster General of Scotland, who was concerned in the management of the Earl of Butes Scots estate, happened to be at that time on a visit to his relation, Lord Hopeton, and finding that his lordship could not afford the accommodation sought, directed the gentlemen to the island of Bute, as a much more eligible situation than Annandale. Of this truth they could not easily be persuaded, and they were not prevailed upon to coincide in his idea until he described the island as situated in the immediate neighbourhood of Greenock, where cotton wool could be procured in any quantity, and through which their yarns, if not demanded in Scotland, would be speedily transmitted to England by the numerous vessels constantly plying in that tract. But he assured them that a ready market for an infinitely greater quantity of yarn than they could produce would be found in Glasgow, Paisley, and other manufacturing towns in the West of Scotland, with which there was constant and easy intercourse by water to and from Rothesay. Upon visiting Bute, the gentlemen found that Mr Oliphant had not given a more flattering description of the situation than it really deserved. A treaty was accordingly soon set on foot for the requisite quantity of ground, and the command of the stream, for the purpose of driving their machinery. The Earl of Bute, ever ready to encourage useful undertakings, and anxious to ameliorate the condition of the town of Rothesay, gave very liberal terms; and before the oldest of the two mills now in use was erected, Mr Kenyon and his friends constructed machinery, so as to fill an old flax mill, and to keep their people employed until their greater building should be erected. This was the first cotton mill established in Scotland. The use of the fly-shuttle was not known at that time in Scotland. A company of manufacturers in Glasgow bought up with avidity what yarn the Rothesay mill could produce. Among other ingenious servants of the mill company was a man named Thomas Rogerson, versant in the business of weaving with that shuttle, while at the same time he could not only make the implement but also direct the making of the loom and all its apparatus. Mr Oliphant, out of zeal to extend the manufactures of his country, recommended that this man should be sent to Glasgow, to instruct in his mode of weaving a few of those journeymen who were in the employment of the purchasers of the yarn. The recommendation was complied with as a measure tending to enlarge the demand for this commodity. Rogerson directed the construction of some looms at Glasgow, but the journeymen were exceedingly averse to receive instruction from him, and to relinquish their former mode of working. He wove some webs himself in order to show them the method, and by his advice the masters had to purchase their compliance by a very considerable augmentation of price for each piece. The great body of mankind do not easily give up habits to which they have been long accustomed. Yet that mode of performing the work is much easier and far more expeditious than the method formerly in use, and has, accordingly, become universal. In a few years after, Peter Colquhoun, Esq., then Provost of Glasgow, afterwards an eminent police magistrate in London, having occasion to pay Mr Oliphant a visit in Edinburgh, described to him, with no small degree of patriotic exultation, the rapid progress of the cotton manufactures in the West, on which Mr Oliphant intimated the pleasure he derived from such a circumstance, which he said could not fail to afford him more than ordinary satisfaction, for, he added jocularly, I am the father of these fabrics a declaration whereat Mr Colquhoun scouted. Mr Oliphant thereupon related to him the fact of his having been the first to procure the introduction of a cotton mill into Scotland, and that he was the means of sending a tradesman from Rothesay to Glasgow in order to teach manufacturers there how to avail themselves of the produce of such mills. These were circumstances Mr Colquhoun had not been apprised of; on which Mr Oliphant further told him that it was not to be wondered at that his good deeds and services should be so soon forgotten in the city of Glasgow, where they had been once well known to not a few in the manufacturing line, when it was agitated as a matter of doubt who was really the inventor of the art of printing, or the discoverer of the mariners compass. This anecdote was related to me by Mr Oliphant himself. The mills at Rothesay, continues Blain, are extensive and complete,* as are the other buildings subservient to the principal works. As the company had in their lease a corn mill, they demolished the old and erected a new one in its stead, which, for conveniency, is not exceeded by any other in Scotland. In 1800, the company erected a steam engine, to be used for the accommodation of the old, or original, cotton mill, when summer droughts should render its aid necessary. These mills have changed masters more than once since their first establishment, but since 17 have been in possession of Messrs Dugal and John Bannatyne, at Glasgow, and the mercantile house of Anderson, Fullerton & Dunlop, at Greenock. I am obliged to Mr William McRae, one of the managers, for the following information relative to these works as the business stood at the 1st of August, 1801. The cotton works employ about seven hundred hands, young and old, two hundred of whom are weavers. The greater part of the mill-hands are females, as are also about thirty of the weavers. The ordinary hours of employment are from six in the morning to seven in the evening; and the wages vary according to the age of the party, namely, from fourpence to tenpence per day for children; from tenpence to eighteenpence, and in some instances two shillings, per day for women; and from twentypence to three shillings, and in some instances four shillings, per day for men and tradesmen. All the people are employed in or about the mills except some women, who are allowed to pick cotton at home, and the weavers and their winders. The female weavers are in shops by themselves, near the mills.
Christine, Lochly appears to exist today - on the shores of Loch Fad, according to my Landranger Ordnance Survey map, a couple of miles from Rothesay. I assume it is a farm. I *think* the phrasing "tenant in Lochly" indicates that there was more than one tenancy, but I'm not sure. Can anyone else help? Re the cotton industry I hadn't realised until now that the cotton industry in Rothesay had a shaky start and that at least one of the early entrepreneurs faced ruin (in about 1812, a few years after William BANNATYNE's death). Rothesay's Cotton Works was established in 1779 and underwent several changes of management and direction (The Island of Bute, Ian S Munro). It was advertised for sale in 1785 and it changed hands again in 1813, when it was bought by Kelly and Thom. The period before the latter sale had been a difficult one, apparently. In November 1812 Archibald MOORE, factor, wrote to Lord Bute warning that the Cotton Mill Company had failed and its affairs were in such a bad state that the company was heading for bankruptcy. However, the acquisition by the water engineer Robert THOM was a great step forward for the cotton industry on Bute. A 1908 article describes how the 1779/80 cotton mill on Bute was about 100ft by 30ft and four storeys tall (the Cotton Industry in Rothesay by ex-Provost SHARP, Transactions of Buteshire Natural History Society). After the 1785 sale, he says, the new company appeared prosperous because it built a second mill (erected 1791) facing Mill Street. "It was a handsome structure of about 150 by 40 feet and five storeys." Mr Sharp says he was startled to find that "in 1812, when the mills were owned by Messrs ANDERSON, BANNATYNES, Alex. DUNLOP and FULLERTON, that Lord Bute's factor had to report to his Lordship that the concern was bankrupt, that the Company was utterly ruined, in particular that Mr Anderson had put in his whole, a considerable fortune, and was completely cleaned out..." George ROBINSON "a public spirited Rothesay man, ship owner and merchant" suggested that Lord Bute should approach the Government and ask it to buy the mills, and keep a number of Frenchmen , who were prisoners at war at this time, in them. But in 1813 the mills were acquired "at a low figure" by Messrs Wm KELLY and Robert Thom. "Mr Kelly was at one time manager of Lanark Mills, and latterly a partner in the Blackburn Mills, and an improver of cotton machinery. Mr Thom was an eminent C.E. born in Tarbolton in 1775. He brought the water into Greenock and Paisley ..... In 1826 Mr Kelly retired and sold the mills to Mr Thom, who thus became the sole proprietor. Buying the estate of Ascog, Mr Thom assumed Mr STRUTHERS into the firm." You may already know that there is an MI for William Bannatyne at Rothesay. William Bannatyne, manager of Rothesay Cotton works, died 1.6.1808 aged 54. Wife Margaret Duncan. 7.3.1838 aged 79. Erected by daughter Elizabeth. (Bute and Arran Monumental Inscriptions edited by Alison Mitchell), Madeleine In a message dated 12/11/01 8:01:47 PM GMT Standard Time, csmladen@city.toronto.on.ca writes: << My ancestor, John Sharp, is listed as a late tenant in Lochly on a marriage certificate from 1810. Just wondering, does anyone know what being a "tenant in Lochly" refers to?? Also, does anyone have any information about the Cotton Works in Rothesay. Another ancestor (William Bannatyne) was the Manager of the Cotton Works - listed on a marriage certificate from 1810. >>
Hi I had a spare minute in Register House yesterday. Agnes Campbell Robison born 14 June 1862 at 4 Columshill Place Rothesay f John Robison mason (journeyman) m Flora McDougall date of marriage Feb 1855 Glasgow informant John Robison father Magic! I thought ............ but there was no John Robison/Robson/Robinson/Robertson to be found in the 1855 marriages. I tried doing a cross check ..but this is one of the major drawbacks with the computer system ..if the spelling isn't right it doesn't bring it up ..and Macdougall can be spelled in quite a few ways. It could even be McDugald. I think Bill's suggestion of searching the 1861 census is a good one. Irene
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Cruickshank, Scott Classification: Obituary Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/455 Message Board Post: The Times, Trenton, New Jersey, December 12, 2001 COLUMBIA, Md. -- Elizabeth Scott Cruickshank, 69, died Dec. 3 at Howard County General Hospital, Columbia. Born on the Isle of Bute, Scotland, she came to the United States in 1962 and lived in Hopewell before moving to Maryland in July. She worked in the field of psychiatric nursing at facilities in Trenton and Belle Meade before retiring in 1997. Wife of the late Graham Cruickshank, she is survived by a son and daughter-in-law; two sisters and brothers-in-law; a brother-in-law and sister-in-law; and nieces and nephews. Memorial service will be 10:30 a.m. Saturday at Covenant Presbyterian Church, Parkway and Parkside avenues, Trenton. Burial will be in Scotland. In lieu of flowers, memorial contributions may be made to Alzheimer's Association, 12 Roszel Road, Princeton, N.J. 08540.
Christine Sorry not to respond to the specific questions that you asked, and this is a VERY long shot, but do you have in your family an Annie SHARP who married John TAYLOR in Bute on 27 Apr 1848. He was my g.g. uncle, became a wine and spirit merchant (and, I think, hotel keeper) in Glasgow, and died there on 13 Jan 1856 at the early age of 34. Despite making extensive enquiries, I have been unable to identify Annie's parents, her birth or death, or whether she remarried - but she had died by 1884 when her daughter married. In case the naming pattern that they used is relevant, John and Annie's only child (that I know of) was called Mary. (Therefore, Annie's mother MAY have been a Mary too.) Martyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Mladen" <csmladen@city.toronto.on.ca> To: <ButeshireGenWeb-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:00 PM Subject: Lochly & Cotton Works > My ancestor, John Sharp, is listed as a late tenant in Lochly on a marriage certificate from 1810. Just wondering, does anyone know what being a "tenant in Lochly" refers to?? > > Also, does anyone have any information about the Cotton Works in Rothesay. Another ancestor (William Bannatyne) was the Manager of the Cotton Works - listed on a marriage certificate from 1810. > > Thanks.
My ancestor, John Sharp, is listed as a late tenant in Lochly on a marriage certificate from 1810. Just wondering, does anyone know what being a "tenant in Lochly" refers to?? Also, does anyone have any information about the Cotton Works in Rothesay. Another ancestor (William Bannatyne) was the Manager of the Cotton Works - listed on a marriage certificate from 1810. Thanks. Christine Mladen Toronto, Canada
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Haig, Colledge Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/368.2.1 Message Board Post: Sorry, but I don't think that your Nancy Jane Haig fits into the family that I have. Andrew Haig d 1796 Cavers Roxburgh married Jane Colledge b 1799 and had 13 children from 1822 to 1843. There was no child called Nancy or Jane.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: CUMMING CURRIE KERR Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/454 Message Board Post: Is there anyone who is researching the Cumming Families from Dippen, Isle of Arran, who would know who the father of Duncan Cumming born 1811/2 and married to Catherine Currie, or the father of Archibald Cumming born 1802/3 and married to Margaret Kerr would be. Duncan and Archibald were cousins.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/SeC.2ACI/453 Message Board Post: I have a Nancy Jane Haig or Nancy or Jane. Born 1822 in Scotland and met William Corbin in Indiana and had two children Agnes and James and then they migrated to Illinois and had the following:William, Jane, Joseph, Anna, Belle, Sarah. They did not marry until all the kids were born on January 11, 1877 and then William deserted them all and ran off. Nancy is buried in Washburn Illinois. Can anyone help me? Dan Corbin djcelr37@hotmail.com
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Haig Corbin Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/SeC.2ACI/368.2 Message Board Post: I have a Nancy Jane Haig possibly just Jane. Born October 13, 1822 in Selkirk, Scotland as the story goes. She died in December 19, 1888 in Washburn, Illinois. She married William Corbin after all their children were born and raised in 1878 and then he ran off and deserted them all. I have no parents on any of them. I know that the corbin haig family must have migrated together or were large enough to be everywhere because two of their children also married Haigs in Illinois. Is there any thing here that sounds remotely familiar. Dan Corbin djcelr37@hotmail.com
Hi Sandy, Just a suggestion. Have you tried the Rothesay 1861 census to see where the parents were born? they may have been married in their home town or their banns may have been read there. Sorry I can't be more helpful Bill
Hello, Hope some one can help me find my ancestors. They are Agnes Campbell Robison born June 14,1862 in Rothesay,Bute,Scotland . Her parents were John Robison and Flora McDougall. She married James Walker from Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland . He was born April 13,1863 . The only parent I know of is Ann Walker and she may have been from England. She was listed in the 1881 British census at 42 Bishop Street Rothesay,Bute,Scotland as widow 49 years of age from England. So from this I gather she was born around 1833. Also states James was born in Greenock,Renfrew,Scotland. Sandy
One day early and very short due to other commitments tomorrow ... Welcome to Sandy who has joined this week. If you haven't already contributed, we hope to hear from you soon. ****** ****** ****** The Clyde Passenger Steamers list of Owners / Masters is now completed - covers 1812 - 1901 - see http://cookfmly.rootsweb.com/cps_list/ ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown@fast.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list.