Welcome to John Rouse who has joined this week. If you haven't already contributed, we hope to hear from you soon. ****** ****** ****** Don't forget this month's topic is "My honorary Bute ancestor" - ie that person or those people who keep turning up alongside your own ancestors in various records so that you become interested in their lives too. For example, from time to time we all receive enquiries from possible relatives regarding links to their ancestors - have any of your checks on these developed into a de-facto honorary ancestor ? Please also note that these monthly topics do not 'die' at the end of the month - if you suddenly come upon an ancestor worthy of a dinner invite (March topic) , then let us all in on the secret. ****** ****** ****** If you have South African Genealogical interests the new virtual branch of GGSA may interest you ... eGSSA's website is currently hosted at http://www.ggsa.info/eggsa ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown12@optonline.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list.

Welcome back to Sharon Hawkins who has rejoined us this week. If you haven't already contributed, we hope to hear from you soon. ****** ****** ****** Running late due to family priorities - a Happy Easter to one and all. Don't forget this month's topic is "My honorary Bute ancestor" - ie that person or those people who keep turning up alongside your own ancestors in various records so that you become interested in their lives too - thanks to Madeleine for her contribution this week. ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown12@optonline.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list.

Hello everyone, My honorary Bute ancestor is Robert McFie, first editor of The Buteman (1854). I have McFie ancestors on Bute but I have no reason to believe I'm related to Robert. He strikes me as a spirited character and if anyone is related to him or knows anything more about him I'd be glad to hear from you Starting a newspaper was obviously a bold move and it can’t have been easy. An article during Robert's editorship declares "We have often thought that every fault-finding subscriber to the Buteman should be editor for a month…" (May 31, 1856). Robert's Buteman wasn't afraid to speak out on behalf of the working class. In February 1856, for example, there is an editorial attacking the Rev Mr Elder who had denounced the evils of Saturday night entertainments, or concerts, for working people. The newspaper suggests that if the middle class could listen to chamber music in their drawing rooms on a Saturday night, the working man was entitled to his entertainment too. Robert had been a workman in Salmond's Cotton Mill and a member of a flourishing Young Man's Debating Society. Some of the members decided that it would be a good idea to publish a newspaper. Robert went to Glasgow for some training and on his return began printing the Buteman, according to The Transactions of the Buteshire Natural History Society (vol 14, Notes on Rothesay Newspapers). The plant consisted of a hand press and publication was fortnightly. It must have been important to make money and it was a printing business as well as a newspaper. In official documents Robert is described as a printer and the Buteman contained advertisements from him for jobbing printing "done on the lightest notice". Robert died young and his obituary appeared in the Buteman of December 28, 1861 (much more space is given over to the report of the funeral of Prince Albert). "Death, ever busy, has taken from among us Mr Robert McFie, the Proprietor and Editor of this Journal from its commencement seven years ago. On Sabbath last, while in his own room, about one o'clock pm he was seized with illness which proved fatal, notwithstanding every effort of medical aid. He was in his 34th year and leaves a widow and young family. The Buteman will be continued in the meantime for their benefit under the practical management of Mr William Wilson, who has been foreman in the office for several years. It is hoped that it will meet with the generous support of the public and that subscribers and contributors will lend their aid in an increased degree." Robert would no doubt have approved of the opportunity being taken in his obit to promote the newspaper! His death certificate gives his age as 34, occupation printer. His parents are given as John McFie, mariner (deceased) and Mary McFie (maiden surname also McFie). His wife was Margaret (maiden surname McNAIR) and his father-in-law, who reported the death, Archibald McNair. No cause of death is given. There is a note that the death is entered in the Book of Corrected Entries for 1862 but I haven’t yet been able to check that, Regards Madeleine Wales

Hi all, I'm off to Bute fairly soon and I am hoping to sort out two place name confusion before I go. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. As a guide the couple I am researching also lived in Barmore and Meikle Kilmory which are both on the west side of the island of Bute. Place one is given as 'Beleacaul' and "Baliecaul' - I am thinking a spelling error for Ballycaul as this is a little to the north of their earlier homes. Place two is given as 'Tighnastraid'. Spelt the same on two OPR entries and the last is given as Straid. No idea for this one. Perhaps some relation to Straad? Huge thanks for any assistance as I wish to put them on my map so I can wander past the area on my trips around Bute. Cheers, Sharon

In a message dated 05/04/2004 07:09:33 GMT Daylight Time, pugdog@bigpond.net.au writes: > off to Bute fairly soon and I am hoping to sort out two place name > confusion before I go. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. > > As a guide the couple I am researching also lived in Barmore and Meikle > Kilmory which are both on the west side of the island of Bute. > > Place one is given as 'Beleacaul' and "Baliecaul' - I am thinking a spelling > error for Ballycaul as this is a little to the north of their earlier homes. > > Place two is given as 'Tighnastraid'. Spelt the same on two OPR entries and > the last is given as Straid. No idea for this one. Perhaps some relation to > Straad? > Hi Spelling variations are very common before 1900........... many people could not read and write so spelling was at the whim of the writer. This applies even more so when the name was being translated from gaelic. So it is very likely that Beleacaul is the same as Ballycaul. 'Tigh na' means house beside ..Straad I'm not sure about ..I think it may be shore. Irene

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/SeC.2ACI/570 Message Board Post: Hi all, I'm off to Bute fairly soon and I am hoping to sort out two place name confusion before I go. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. As a guide the couple I am researching also lived in Barmore and Meikle Kilmory which are both on the west side of the island of Bute. Place one is given as 'Beleacaul' and "Baliecaul' - I am thinking a spelling error for Ballycaul as this is a little to the north of their earlier homes. Place two is given as 'Tighnastraid'. Spelt the same on two OPR entries and the last is given as Straid. No idea for this one. Perhaps some relation to Straad? Huge thanks for any assistance as I wish to put them on my map so I can wander past the area on my trips around Bute. Cheers, Sharon

Welcome to Alasdair F Macdonald who has joined this week. If you haven't already contributed, we hope to hear from you soon. ****** ****** ****** Well, we have already had one posting on this month's topic of "My honorary Bute ancestor" - ie those people who keep turning up alongside your own ancestors in various records so that you become interested in their lives too. Who is yours? ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown12@optonline.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list.

An early entry for this topic. My honorary Bute ancestor will be shared by many of you, as he was Dr John Coombes MADDEVER, a well known Rothesay doctor who signed many of your relatives' death certificates. Another connection, in my case, is that (I am fairly sure that) one of my distant cousins was in domestic service in his household in 1881. I have mentioned Dr MADDEVER before, in a posting to the List in 1999, but this is a fuller report on him. There is a description of Dr MADDEVER in a book entitled "Glimpses of Rothesay and its people 50 years ago", written by J. Burnett Lawson MD in 1923, which is in the Rothesay Library. It records that: "I dare say that [Dr J.C. Maddever] is remembered by more people in Rothesay than the majority of the other persons I will have occasion to mention. He was the popular doctor of his time, and had an extensive practice in the town and over the island, and indeed beyond it, for in these days the doctors regularly went outwith the island to the Kyles of Bute and other parts. He was a man of strong individuality. A large built man, with a bulbous head and a benevolent cast of features, though somewhat cynical expression. A man of many paradoxes, dogmatic in his opinions, most energetic in his practice and the carrying out of his surgical beliefs. He practised in Rothesay for thirty years." The book contains a distinctive picture of the doctor, which supports the narrative description. Other facts that I have gleaned about Dr MADDEVER (who is not a relative of mine) are as follows. On the evidence of the 1881 census and/or his death certificate, he was born in England in about 1824 ("Family Search" indicates that this was in Linkinhorne in Cornwall). His parents were John MADDEVER, a Farmer, and Joanna COOMBE. He held the qualification(s?) of MDMC from Glasgow University. He was married twice, first to Isabella McPHERSON and then to Margaret Bell DUNCAN - Margaret was born in Rothesay in about 1831. He had a son, also called John Coombe MADDEVER and a doctor, born in Glasgow in about 1851, at the same address in 1881 and therefore perhaps in partnership with him. In 1881 Dr MADDEVER employed two servants, a coachman and a domestic servant, Mary MALCOM aged 15 - Mary was almost certainly a g.granddaughter of my g.g.g.grandfather, Gilbert TAYLOR of Skipness. He died in Rothesay in 1887 from blood poisoning (contracted perhaps in the course of his profession) Dr MADDEVER's first marriage was in 1846 in Glasgow. His second was in 1859 in Rothesay. (There are various spelling mistakes in the transcript of the 1881 census entry. MADDEVER is spelled MADDENER; Coombe is spelled Combe; MALCOM is spelled MALCOLM; and Mary's place of birth is given as Kilbride, Renfrew - it should be West Kilbride in Ayrshire. The last two of these discrepancies are the reasons why I am not claimimg to be absolutely certain she is my relative, but I am nearly certain that she is - my Mary MALCOM was a daughter of Archibald MALCOM, a local boat hirer, and was not with her family on that day.) Dr MADDEVER must have been a keen Freemason. There is a record that "on 21st January 1881, sixteen brethren met in McKinley's Hotel (now the Esplanade Hotel) to consider the formation of a new Lodge. Dr J. C. Maddever provided and processed a requisition signed by thirty-one brethren who were of the opinion that a new Lodge should be opened in Rothesay, and who pledged themselves to become members of it". However "the new Lodge was not a success numerically or financially". >From all I have read about him he would have been an interesting man to meet. Apart from anything else, he must have had a wealth of information about our ancestors, not all of it unrepeatable <g>. A Dr John Coombes MADDEVER (presumably the son, not the father) is listed in Kelly's Directory for Brownhills, Staffordshire, in 1884. Martyn

Hi all, I wonder if someone can help me with this. I am trying to determine when the question was first asked on Scottish censuses whether Gaelic was spoken. I know that it was asked in 1891but would like to know when it was first included. If anyone has extracts of the 1861-1881 censuses, that show the column headings I would be grateful to hear from you regards, Bill McKinlay

Welcome to Marvin Dellinger who has joined this week. If you haven't already contributed, we hope to hear from you soon. ****** ****** ****** Just over three days left to post your contribution on the March topic of "Who, out of all your Buteshire ancestors, would you invite to dinner ?" The topic for April (suggested by Madeleine) closely follows on from this month - it is: "My honorary Bute ancestor" - ie those people who keep turning up alongside your own ancestors in various records so that you become interested in their lives too. Michelle's recent post re the tomb at Rothesay that has always intrigued her, is but one that has been mentioned recently. Another example (from my wife's Sassenach roots) is the presence of the same mid-wife for two generations of births. So, post details of your "honorary Bute ancestor" any time during April. ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown12@optonline.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list. P.S. Suggestions for future monthly topics are always welcome.

My dinner guests would be my great great grandfather and family. Samuel Picken born about 1806, son of James PiCKEN and Elizabeth McKINLAY. In 1832 he married Mary Stuart BLAIR, daughter of William BLAIR and Mary BANNATYNE. Samuel was a sea captain and spent many years at sea. This item in the "Newfoundlander' dated Thursday, August 9, 1832 - ' Married on the 3rd July, at Rothesay, Captain SAMUEL PICKEN, of the Brig Funchal of Gronnock, to Miss BLAIR, of the former place.' indicates that he was probably at sea then. In the 1841 census Samuel is not mentioned, but a ship named 'Mary Bannatyne' arrived in Sydney on 4th February 1841, the Master named as PICKEN. Was this you, Samuel ? and was the ship named after family. Incidently the passengers on the ship were Sir Thomas and Lady Mitchell and their nine children. I guess this was our famous explorer.Major Mitchell. The rest of the family mentioned in the census at Argyle Street were Mary BANNATYNE 50, Elizabeth BANNATYNE 60, Mary BLAIR 25 , Jessie PICKEN 5, Samuel PICKEN 3, Elizabeth PICKEN 1, Janet MCKIRDY 20 Female Servant and STEELE (Mrs.) 35 Outside. ( the women seem to use their single surnames) Captain SAMUEL PICKEN came to Ausralia almost every year, between 1850 and 1858 bringing passengers and merchandise, and returning with passengers and cargo of gold, wool and tallow. In 1852 Capt. Picken came to Australia on the "Melbourne', his 14 year old son came with him. Some extracts from his (young Sam's) journal Thunder and lightening accompanied by a shower of hail and a squal happened at dinner time today. The hail fell very fast and in very large stones, never saw hail in July before. Thinking of home, my brother will now have the vacations for some time. Gooseberries and apples will now be ripe. If the shore people have fruit, we have fruit too. We have our Greengage, Green Gooseberry, Damson and apple tarts. Our raisins, our nuts, our figs, and our almonds. Morning.Very cold, a good deal of wind from the Westward.Stearing SE ½ South. I am tired of the sea. I wish I was on shore no matter where, either in Port Philip or Rothesay would be best. When the change wears off one is heartily tired of the sea. Nothing to do, except read, and who can be always reading? No ship seen for a long time, nothing to take away the sameness of our every day life. Youths are generally fond of novelty, and I am not an exception to the rule. Days sailing 195 miles. Lat. South 40º41 Long. 3º33 East The wind lulled towards evening. Think often of home, & all the friends I left there. Father was up late last night, a sailors life is not at all an enviable one Go to the Forecastle every night to see the Bosom. He often speaks of mother and Grannie. I was talking to Father about my future prospects, he says, there will be plenty of situations for me. He was offered some before he left Port Philip. Besides I have a Letter from Potter Wilson & Co. to Mr. Oswald Gilchrist to do all he can for me. I do not know how I will get on in Port Philip, after Father leaves me. I shall then be alone, as it were, in the world. But Father has got many Friends in Port Philip, who will take care of me, and will show kindness to me, If by my own conduct I merit it. I am sure, it will be a great pleasure to all of us, to meet again. I hope we will do so either in Port Philip or in Dear old Scotland. Obviously young Samuel was to be left in Australia. In December 1858, Captain Samuel brought his wife and the rest of his family to Australia on the "Harriet' The children wereJessie, Aged 21, Eliz Picken, Aged 19 (my Great Grandmother), Wm Picken, Aged 15, and James Picken, Aged 9 when I guess they reunited with young Samuel. There are many questions I would like to ask the family, partcularly Captain Samuel's career at sea.and how Mary coped at home with her growing family, with her husband away at sea for such long periods. Cheerio Janet Trudgeon Victoria, Australia

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/SeC.2ACI/569 Message Board Post: hi my name is patrick i am from the united states, and wanting to relocate and permanetly live in the scotland area. My ex wife lives there now (fife) and i have our 3 minor children who want to be closer to their mother. I am posting this, on the hopes, that someone can offer me employment, and a place to stay, and share expences with. I am wanting to relocate by august, if you can offer any help, i would be grateful

The following was posted on another list. Very handy to have as a reference for those odd words that keep popping up from time to time. Cheers Bill "The three year project, led by English lecturer Victor Skretkowicz and lexicographer Susan Rennie at the University of Dundee has seen all 12 volumes of the Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue and all 10 of the Scottish National Dictionary transferred to the web to make the first online Dictionary of the Scots Language. For nearly a century, successive editors of the Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue and The Scottish National Dictionary laboured to create a historical and cultural record of Scots, from 1200 to 1976. The twenty two volumes contain hundreds of thousands of quotes describing all walks of life but now through a process of 'virtual integration' the Dictionary of the Scots Language brings their linguistic, historical and cultural records together and facilitates rapid searching of their contents. It can be accessed for free at www.dsl.ac.uk <http://www.dsl.ac.uk>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/SeC.2ACI/201.1 Message Board Post: Hi Greg - I think you have a wrong name there - Helen Phillips married Richard COPELAND not Caselton - as you know ,their daughter Helen COPELAND married John FLEWIN (or maybe you didn't know) I have a copy of their (Helen & John's) marriage registration in my files if you would like a copy.... regards Alf ( aka Bill) - Co-Organizer of the Norman Morison 150 Reunion

While there are various church documents in the mainland repositories going back pre 1300, there are no surviving church registers or kirk session record books on Arran pre 1700 - the old St Bride's church which was located on the outskirts of the present Lochranza, belongs to that period. Any pre 1702 registers for Kilmory are likely to have gone up in smoke along with everything else when Kilmory manse burnt down on 7 November 1710 - the Book of Arran refers to a contemporary report which stated that "Nothing escaped but he (Mr Bannatyne), his wife and their servants, with their lifes, by leaping out at the windoues." The two main Arran Parishes are Kilmory (literally Church Mary, or St Mary's) on the westside and Kilbride (literally Church Bride, or St Bride's {or Bridget's}) on the east. Their records start as previously stated in 1702 and 1704 respectively. The two chapelry's that also had records were Lochranza and Shisken. Reference in church registers or kirk session records to St Bride's is therefore to the eastside mother kirk at Lamlash and not to the ancient St Bride's at Lochranza. FWIW, records which give "Kilmory, Shiskine, Lochranza." seem to refer to the westside mother kirk and it's two main chapelry's as a group, so the event may have taken place at any one of the three. Missing registers/record books is not an uncommon event - the Kirk Session record book for Kilbride starting in August 1749 is also missing. The volume for Kilmory up to 1762 may well have been lost when the kirk was rebuilt in 1785. As to control of the ministers, the livings of all the Arran churches were under the patronage of the Duke of Hamilton, while Church control came via the Presbytery of Kintyre and the Synod of Argyll - not perhaps the direction Linda was thinking of when she wrote of "the mainland" ? regards Peter

I would invite my great grandparents - Margaret McIntosh from Slate Quarry North Bute and her Irish husband Robert Brewster who married in February 1859. I would invite them so that I could ask them why they didn't register the birth of my grandmother Jane Brewster - I have searched and searched for a birth certificate but it does not appear to exist. I have made all sorts of suppositions but I would really like to know why. Jean Reynolds ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Cook" <cookfmly@bigpond.com> To: <ButeshireGenWeb-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 3:45 AM Subject: [BUT] Sunday morning musings #241 > No new subscribers this week. > > Thanks to Mike for his support for the this month's topic ("Inviting > Relatives for Dinner") and his own early contribution, so if you > haven't already contributed something on this month's theme, we hope > to hear from you soon as we passed the Ides of March (15th) last > Monday, and are fast approaching the end of the month. > > ****** ****** ****** > > Linda kindly posted some "missing Kilmory baptism records" earlier > this week, as a follow-up to my post last Sunday re the gap in the > Kilmory, Arran registers, however it needs to pointed out that all the > farms given are in fact in Kilbride Parish. The Sannox farms in > particular, were the home of many of the 1829 emigrants to Megantic > County, Quebec, Canada who sailed on the "Caledonia". > > ****** ****** ****** > > Feel free to join in and present your own items. > > Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com > List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown12@optonline.net > > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list. > > ______________________________

Peter, thank you for answering my question concerning whether these were records recorded at St. Bride's Church at Lochranza or at the Kilmory church on the south end of the island. I have not ever really understood why the records for the Sannox farms located in the Kilbride district were recorded at the Kilmory church of St. Bride's. Perhaps it had to do with how far the nearest church was for members. Another mystery is why was my ancestor Archibald McKillop, schoolmaster at Lochranza, recording baptisms, a job done by the catichist. It seems that the churches were not able to keep the positions filled? I cannot believe that a whole book of records was lost!!!!! I wonder if anyone has checked the cave where the church met while the dispute over pastor was going on or maybe in the attic of Rev. McMillan. Wishful thinking. A more productive question might be who was the higher authority that these parishes answered to on the mainland and whether the missing book was turned over to a mainland church. Peter, I still do not know the difference between the records shown as "Kilmory" and "Kilmory, Shiskine, Lochranza." Any thoughts? Linda

No new subscribers this week. Thanks to Mike for his support for the this month's topic ("Inviting Relatives for Dinner") and his own early contribution, so if you haven't already contributed something on this month's theme, we hope to hear from you soon as we passed the Ides of March (15th) last Monday, and are fast approaching the end of the month. ****** ****** ****** Linda kindly posted some "missing Kilmory baptism records" earlier this week, as a follow-up to my post last Sunday re the gap in the Kilmory, Arran registers, however it needs to pointed out that all the farms given are in fact in Kilbride Parish. The Sannox farms in particular, were the home of many of the 1829 emigrants to Megantic County, Quebec, Canada who sailed on the "Caledonia". ****** ****** ****** Feel free to join in and present your own items. Peter Cook cookfmly@bigpond.com List maintainer and Co-host with Barbara < babrown12@optonline.net > of the ButeshireGenWeb mailing list.

It would be a family party. I would invite my great-great grandparents, John Palmer and Mary Gibson Palmer, and my great grandparents, John Palmer and Mary McAlpine Palmer. Of the four of them, Mary McAlpine Palmer was the only one born on Bute. The other three came to Rothesay in 1844 from Kirkcudbrightshire. The time of the party is very tricky to work out. The younger John and Mary were married in September 1871 and the elder Mary died in February 1873. My grandfather was born in July 1872. There would have been many times during that period when a get-together would have been impossible to arrange. Perhaps it could be a pre-wedding party. I would imagine that John and Mary had known each other for quite a while—she was 34 and he was 32 at the time of the marriage—and they lived within walking distance of each other. John junior was the eldest of his parents’ children still alive in 1871—as far as I know, the first son to marry. He was a merchant mariner on the high seas and had obtained his first mate’s ticket in 1861. Several years ago I attempted to trace his career. I came to a dead end in 1870 when he was obliged to leave his ship, “Annie”, in Cartagena, Spain, after her owners sold her and paid off the crew. After that, John continued to describe himself as a mariner, so he may have worked the inland waters closer to home on the Firth of Clyde. John Palmer, senior, was the schoolmaster of the Burgh School in Rothesay, also the Civil Registrar for the Burgh and the Clerk of the Session of the Church of Scotland. He had come to Rothesay following the 1843 Disruption in the Presbyterian Church. The rift between the sides of the dispute in Rothesay was quite severe and left the Established Church of Scotland in the town without a minister, a schoolmaster, a chief steward or a beadle. The Session Records following the Disruption put the greatest stress of the loss of the chief steward. It was obvious the heritors had to make sure that the church’s funds had not left with him. The chief heritor was the Marquess of Bute and he must have taken it into his own hands to find a new minister and schoolmaster. John Palmer’s previous post had been as schoolmaster in the Southwick portion of Colvend parish, where the Marquess of Bute had considerable land holdings. John and Mary arrived in Rothesay in January of 1844 with 5 children. The enrolment of the school at the time was nine pupils. Over the ensuing 25 years the burgh school steadily increased its enrolment. Its principal schoolroom was the ground floor of 37 Bishop Street, the two upper floors being the Palmers’ home. Looking at the house today, one wonders how quickly pupil numbers became so large that they had to seek additional accommodation. Just how many children could be fitted into a space that might total 15ft x 30ft? By the mid-1860s the heritors settled on the location for a new school, but it was not opened until 1877 when over 400 children, including my 5-year-old grandfather, marched in formation from Bishop Street up to Mill Street. I am sure it would take more than an evening for Schoolmaster Palmer to tell me all the difficulties that occurred through that time. And what about the ladies of the party? First, how were they addressed? In all formal references they are both given the name Mary, but I have seen letters in which my great-great grandmother was referred to as May Gibson, and my grandfather always said that his mother’s name was Marea. What did they look like? From a photograph I can recognize Marea McAlpine—her hair parted in the centre and straight back from her face, plaited and wrapped round the back of her head, her face at first glance serious, but her eyes giving the hint of a smile. She would be dressed in black. Her mother and a brother died in 1871, possibly allowing Marea and John to marry and move into the flat at 3AVictoria Street. What was she like? I wish I knew. My grandfather never shared any memories of her with me. But what about May Gibson? I’ve never seen a photo of her. She had had thirteen children; in 1871 only seven were alive. The eldest daughter, Margaret, had never been in good health. She died eight months after her mother, from what her father described on her death certificate as “debility suffered over many years” . In 1848-49 three of the children had died within a twelve-month. At that time there was no register for their father to enter the reasons for their deaths. What had happened to them? How had these events left their stamp on May? One of her sons stated that she had been the mainstay of the household, that was why they all put off marrying till their thirties and beyond. There would be plenty to talk about. Even the problems of being Registrar for the Census just passed. What couldn’t be talked about was the future yet to come. May Gibson Palmer died in February 1873; Marea McAlpine Palmer in September 1880; John Palmer on 10 June 1881, less than a week after retiring from his post as Burgh Schoolmaster. His son, the mariner, died when? I do not know. He apparently went back to working on the high seas, leaving my grandfather in the care of his Aunt Bella. One day, returning home from school, he was told that his father had died somewhere abroad. I was fifteen when my grandfather told me that, too impatient to get on with life in the here and now to hear the rest of the story. But I have never found a record of the death of John Palmer, the mariner. After that I can't say /cheers Pat Jeffs

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/SeC.2ACI/95.104.53.57.59.1.1 Message Board Post: I have two Jane/Jean Scoulers associated with my line. I have Susan Scouler's sister Jean born about 1858 and I have Susan's cousin born about 1862. They would both be named after their grandmother, Jane Eddington. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about either of them other than their year of birth. The parents of Jean are John Scouler and Ann Burns. I have her birth as about 1858 probably in Glasgow. The parents of the Jane Scouler are John's brother Thomas and Elizabeth Douglas. Jane was born in 1862 in Dalmellington, Ayrshire. Jean and Jane are interchangeable. If you can get a connection, I can get you back a couple of generations but no more. Hope this helps. Elizabeth Russon