Wetenskaplik is ’n voorval van nie-vaderskap, slegs dit: êrens in die geslagsregister is die persoon wat as vader aangedui word, nie die biologiese vader nie. Toe die voorval plaasgevind het was minstens die ma bewus daarvan of dalk albei ouers, maar in die loop van die geskiedenis het daardie inligting verlore geraak. Die persoon wat die familienaam dra het deel geword van die oorgedraagde stories, die waardes en die liefde van die familie. Dit is wel baie interessant om die Y-DNA van ’n familie te toets, want dan kan die daardie familie aan persone van die stamland gekoppel word. Daar sal gewoonlik baie min redes wees om die moederskap te betwis, behalwe in gevalle waar ’n kind in die hospitaal omgeruil is. Persoonlik sou ek nie pa-seun toetse doen nie, maar wel neefs, kleinneefs en agterkleinneefs. As daar dan’n nie-vaderskap voorval aangedui word, sou dit tot 1745 teruggevoer kon word. Groete Elmien

Hi Elmien (Verskoon die Engels maar ek sal nooit dit in Afrikaans kan verduidelik nie!) On the birth of my mother in Cape Town in 1923, the name of her father was given on her birth certificate but her parents were unmarried. I have traced her baptism certificate on LDS and the father's name is also given. Nothing further is known about her father as he played no part in her life at all. The interesting thing is that the address given on the baptism certificate is an address of a foster home where she was cared for; I only discovered this later when I found "protection of infants" files in the Cape Archives. Fortunately, she did go back to her mother when she was about 15 months old (hurray!) My grandmother would not speak about this man (my "unknown" grandfather) when questioned by my mother. We therefore have no clue as to where he came from. When I spoke to a nephew of my grandmother many, many years later once I became interested in genealogy, he said he thought the man in question came from Uniondale or Graaff Reinet. My grandmother's family originally came from Oudtshoorn so this could be true. My grandmother's older relatives (nephews and nieces) have passed away a long time ago; their children don't even know there is a mystery. Now the question : If (and it's a big if), I would like to try and find out more about my grandfather's line through DNA testing, is there any way of doing it as for obvious reasons, we do not know of any male descendants/relatives of this man. (my mother was the only child my grandmother had from him) My mother always had a burning desire to know more about her father but due to her mother blocking all her enquiries she never found out more. My regret is that I didn't take an interest much earlier as perhaps we could have found out something for her. As an only child, she always wondered if she could have had half brothers or sisters as she was very family orientated. The name of the man is John Murray. Antoinette -----Original Message----- From: buitenposten-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:buitenposten-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elmien Wood Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 9:50 AM To: SAGenealogie; Buitenposten Subject: [BP] "Non-paternity event" Wetenskaplik is ’n voorval van nie-vaderskap, slegs dit: êrens in die geslagsregister is die persoon wat as vader aangedui word, nie die biologiese vader nie. Toe die voorval plaasgevind het was minstens die ma bewus daarvan of dalk albei ouers, maar in die loop van die geskiedenis het daardie inligting verlore geraak. Die persoon wat die familienaam dra het deel geword van die oorgedraagde stories, die waardes en die liefde van die familie. Dit is wel baie interessant om die Y-DNA van ’n familie te toets, want dan kan die daardie familie aan persone van die stamland gekoppel word. Daar sal gewoonlik baie min redes wees om die moederskap te betwis, behalwe in gevalle waar ’n kind in die hospitaal omgeruil is. Persoonlik sou ek nie pa-seun toetse doen nie, maar wel neefs, kleinneefs en agterkleinneefs. As daar dan’n nie-vaderskap voorval aangedui word, sou dit tot 1745 teruggevoer kon word. Groete Elmien ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BUITENPOSTEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Antoinette I do apologize for not replying sooner. The sad new is that DNA testing would not solve the problem of who your grandfather was. At present only the male to male to male or the female to female to female line can be traced. The good news is that John Murray would not have been a person who came and went for a short period of time. He would have been a neighbour, an employer, a church friend, a school friend, even a teacher. The first thing to find out is where your grandmother lived when she fell pregnant. If you know how old she was, you can also look at confirmation documents. Maybe someone who researches the Murray family can find a person who was living in the same area at the same time. It would be difficult, but it is doable! And it would be very rewarding. If it was a small community, there will definitely be someone who knew exactly who he was. (I know someone who was born in the ninety twenties, but she is unique.) The minutes of the church might have something on the couple, but they might not have recorded the couple's parents. Good luck! Regards Elmien -----Original Message----- From: Accounts IBF Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:19 AM To: buitenposten@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BP] "Non-paternity event" - my unknown grandfather and DNAtesting Hi Elmien (Verskoon die Engels maar ek sal nooit dit in Afrikaans kan verduidelik nie!) On the birth of my mother in Cape Town in 1923, the name of her father was given on her birth certificate but her parents were unmarried. I have traced her baptism certificate on LDS and the father's name is also given. Nothing further is known about her father as he played no part in her life at all. The interesting thing is that the address given on the baptism certificate is an address of a foster home where she was cared for; I only discovered this later when I found "protection of infants" files in the Cape Archives. Fortunately, she did go back to her mother when she was about 15 months old (hurray!) My grandmother would not speak about this man (my "unknown" grandfather) when questioned by my mother. We therefore have no clue as to where he came from. When I spoke to a nephew of my grandmother many, many years later once I became interested in genealogy, he said he thought the man in question came from Uniondale or Graaff Reinet. My grandmother's family originally came from Oudtshoorn so this could be true. My grandmother's older relatives (nephews and nieces) have passed away a long time ago; their children don't even know there is a mystery. Now the question : If (and it's a big if), I would like to try and find out more about my grandfather's line through DNA testing, is there any way of doing it as for obvious reasons, we do not know of any male descendants/relatives of this man. (my mother was the only child my grandmother had from him) My mother always had a burning desire to know more about her father but due to her mother blocking all her enquiries she never found out more. My regret is that I didn't take an interest much earlier as perhaps we could have found out something for her. As an only child, she always wondered if she could have had half brothers or sisters as she was very family orientated. The name of the man is John Murray. Antoinette -----Original Message----- From: buitenposten-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:buitenposten-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elmien Wood Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 9:50 AM To: SAGenealogie; Buitenposten Subject: [BP] "Non-paternity event" Wetenskaplik is ’n voorval van nie-vaderskap, slegs dit: êrens in die geslagsregister is die persoon wat as vader aangedui word, nie die biologiese vader nie. Toe die voorval plaasgevind het was minstens die ma bewus daarvan of dalk albei ouers, maar in die loop van die geskiedenis het daardie inligting verlore geraak. Die persoon wat die familienaam dra het deel geword van die oorgedraagde stories, die waardes en die liefde van die familie. Dit is wel baie interessant om die Y-DNA van ’n familie te toets, want dan kan die daardie familie aan persone van die stamland gekoppel word. Daar sal gewoonlik baie min redes wees om die moederskap te betwis, behalwe in gevalle waar ’n kind in die hospitaal omgeruil is. Persoonlik sou ek nie pa-seun toetse doen nie, maar wel neefs, kleinneefs en agterkleinneefs. As daar dan’n nie-vaderskap voorval aangedui word, sou dit tot 1745 teruggevoer kon word. Groete Elmien ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BUITENPOSTEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BUITENPOSTEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2639/5551 - Release Date: 01/22/13

Graaff-Reinet has several Murray families living there. Farmers Janet Melville -----Original Message----- From: buitenposten-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:buitenposten-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elmien Wood Sent: 15 February 2013 06:16 AM To: buitenposten@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BP] "Non-paternity event" - my unknown grandfather and DNAtesting