Hi Sandy I am so grateful for your comments and for being the first person to give me an understandable reason why there may be restrictions on transcribing (and publishing) the whole or large part of a register. Thanks to my son asking a very sensible question when I was moaning about this issue for the umpteenth time (he said "Who owns the original church registers?") my brain had previously reached the point of thinking that registers deposited at ROs may still belong to another body - the individual church or chapel for instance - and, therefore, the RO may have to protect the owners' interests, including their copyright. But no-one (including Bucks RO) had actually SAID at any time that this was the reason for not having Bucks PRs available on fiche. I suppose too it still begs the question why Northants are free to copy and sell PRs and Bucks are not - perhaps it comes down simply to different depositing agreements with document owners, or different dioceses having different attitudes, or other local reasons, like you say. I think you are right that a microfilm copy could be cheaper than (or at least about equal cost to) buying fiche copies and that photocopying adds up to an astronomical amount. But I don't think Northants RO (or Bucks RO for that matter) will sell film copies. I have a feeling I asked Bucks this when I enquired about fiche copies, but I can always check again - or maybe other listers know the answer to this. Since we have BFHS and BGS members on these lists - and I'll guess we also have people with RO and diocesan level contacts - can I register a plea? Is it possible to negotiate different arrangements for Bucks PRs? Those listers with appropriate influence may be able to transform life for all Bucks researchers.... Celia Renshaw In Chesterfield UK -----Original Message----- From: Sandy [mailto:teylu@earthlink.net] Sent: 19 April 2005 15:56 To: Celia Renshaw Cc: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BKM] Parish registers on fiche Celia, I may be misunderstanding, but in reading your messages I wonder if the difference between Northants and Bucks has more to do with restrictions which preclude duplication of the fiche than it does with the cost associated with duplicating a roll of microfilm. The cost of purchasing a duplicate roll of microfilm (while higher than purchasing a few fiche) shouldn't approach the usual definition of exorbitant. I've not purchased a duplicate roll of film in the UK, but I've usually paid somewhere between $8 to $12 USD per roll when purchasing from archives and libraries in the U.S. By contrast, the cost of putting the film on a reader-printer and making "paper photocopies" of an entire roll, paying by the printed sheet, would approach the astronomical (by my budget anyway). ;-) But the same could be said for doing this same thing with a number of microfiche. However, I ran into what seems to be a similar situation concerning Cornwall Illogan and Nottingham St. Mary's. You can view the images of the original registers (on fiche, I believe) at the CRO or Notts archives, but they do not allow the sale of duplicates of those fiche. I think it is even necessary to obtain specific permission to be allowed to produce transcriptions of the registers (not so much as regards each particular entry, as to transcribe the full, or perhaps some great segment). As best I've been able to ascertain, the nature and reasons for the restrictions seem to differ from one county records/diocesan archives to the next, with some (such as Northants) seeming not to have restrictions. In the case of Illogan and Notts St. Mary's, I believe the restrictions come from the church (although I'm not certain whether from the parish level or the diocese). Also, in some cases there seem to be arrangements or agreements between the records/archives office and the local FHS, but I am not personally familiar with any of those and such arrangements might also differ from place to place. Eve likely would know more about whether the Bucks FHS or BucksGS has any such particular arrangement. I don't know if any of this helps, or simply serves to further muddy the waters. But I agree it is an undesirable situation for researchers. -Sandy > On Saturday, April 16, 2005, at 07:28 AM, Celia Renshaw wrote: > However, Northants RO also offers a fiche copying service - £2 per > fiche. > It costs a lot for a whole parish - from, say, 1500s to 1900s it could > be > about £50, but one can buy just two or three at a time, good when one's > on a > budget. Since Northants do this, I thought it odd that Bucks did not. > Maybe it's because Northants have copied their registers onto fiche in > the > first place and Bucks have used film, so for Bucks to put them all onto > fiche as well would be prohibitive. I'm only guessing here but how I > wish > they could make fiche copies available. As I've said in another > message, it > looks like the 'trustworthy' transcriptions you mention are going to be > the > only option and the 'primary source' research we're exhorted to do is > nigh > impossible for many. > > Thanks again > Celia > In Chesterfield > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eve McLaughlin [mailto:eve@varneys.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 15 April 2005 12:24 > To: Celia Renshaw > Cc: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BKM] Parish registers on fiche > > >> >> It does seem rather odd that if Northants supplies copies, Bucks >> doesn't.. > > No, this stems from a complicated leasing arrangement which Northants > had for a photocopier, many years ago. They had to pay x (large) pounds > a month for a set maximum quota whether they used the copier or not, so > they made sure they did take up the full quota, by copying all the BTs, > systematically. > Result was good for them =- they got the value, and very good for > researchers, because there were sets of copies of every parish sitting > on a shelf, at hand. Presumably they are now duplicating and selling > these copies. The copier company withdrew the arrangement. > Bucks didn't use the same system - and there is a general Archive rule > that actual parchment and any bound volumes cannot be copied (using > normal copiers) > - so while you vould probably arrange for a film to be made, at serious > cost, there will not be photocopies now. > Our own (BGS) transcribed registers are normally carefully checked - I > did most of the older period ones and have checked personally some of > the later ones. Where copies are unchecked, we usually say so. I do know > that some other transcriptions have been issued where there are gaps and > omissions. > If you can borrow that car again and come down to Aylesbury for our > Family History Feast on April 23, you will be able to see all the > livrary transcriptions. > > -- > Eve McLaughlin > > Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians > Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society > > > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > To search the BUCKS list message archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=BUCKS >