There is a LOVELL connection on the TACK branch of my family, and I am wondering if they were gypsies, as I understand that this was a common gypsy surname. I looked them up on the census, which did not give me any particular clue. However, several of them had (Em'ee), and I wondered what that might stand for..... does anyone know? and can anyone tell me how I can determine whether they have gypsy origins or not? Mary LOVELL was born in Wing and married Henry TACK Many thanks in advance. Gill

I can't provide an answer to the query about "Em'ee" (could it be emigree meaning travelling people?), though LOVELL is certainly recognised as a gypsy surname. Can anyone tell me what the phrase "by the roadside" might signify on three baptisms in my GADSDEN family? Bucks origins are indicated for the parents, James and Sarah GADSDEN (no marriage found yet) but their first three children are recording among "baptizings" in parish of St Mary's Whitechapel, Thomas 1757, John 1759 and Sarah 1760 - all with location given as "by the roadside". Other baptisms in the same pages give more understandable locations, like "in Church Lane" or "in Black Lion Yard". Various explanations have been offered me but none of these seem satisfactory. Does the phrase indicate that the parents were of no fixed abode, travellers in some way? The fact that the children were baptised over a three to four year period in the same parish seems to suggest that the family was stationary for that time at least. One well-known genealogist gave the theory that "by the roadside" means the family were living on the main street of the area at that time - but again, other baptisms in the same group and date show "in the High Street" so why would "by the roadside" be the term used for the Gadsdens? Anyone got any ideas on this? Many thanks, Rosemary in Durban SA www.genealogyworld.net ----- Original Message ----- From: gill kelly <gk011a6271@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:16 AM Subject: [BKM] LOVELLs - were they gypsies? > There is a LOVELL connection on the TACK branch of my family, and I am wondering if they were gypsies, as I understand that this was a common gypsy surname. I looked them up on the census, which did not give me any particular clue. However, several of them had (Em'ee), and I wondered what that might stand for..... does anyone know? and can anyone tell me how I can determine whether they have gypsy origins or not? > > Mary LOVELL was born in Wing and married Henry TACK > > > Many thanks in advance. > Gill > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > Advertising for financial gain is not permitted on this List, although subscribers may include a link to their website in their signature. > >

It's long been common for travellers to have a base, a place to which they return regularly. I can imagine that children born on their travels (i.e. by the roadside, which is where they usually lay up) would not be christened in the nearest church, but when they next stopped by their "home". Paul Rosemary Dixon-Smith wrote: >I can't provide an answer to the query about "Em'ee" (could it be emigree >meaning travelling people?), though LOVELL is certainly recognised as a >gypsy surname. > >Can anyone tell me what the phrase "by the roadside" might signify on three >baptisms in my GADSDEN family? Bucks origins are indicated for the parents, >James and Sarah GADSDEN (no marriage found yet) but their first three >children are recording among "baptizings" in parish of St Mary's >Whitechapel, Thomas 1757, John 1759 and Sarah 1760 - all with location given >as "by the roadside". Other baptisms in the same pages give more >understandable locations, like "in Church Lane" or "in Black Lion Yard". > >Various explanations have been offered me but none of these seem >satisfactory. Does the phrase indicate that the parents were of no fixed >abode, travellers in some way? The fact that the children were baptised over >a three to four year period in the same parish seems to suggest that the >family was stationary for that time at least. One well-known genealogist >gave the theory that "by the roadside" means the family were living on the >main street of the area at that time - but again, other baptisms in the same >group and date show "in the High Street" so why would "by the roadside" be >the term used for the Gadsdens? > >Anyone got any ideas on this? > >Many thanks, >Rosemary in Durban SA >www.genealogyworld.net > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: gill kelly <gk011a6271@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:16 AM >Subject: [BKM] LOVELLs - were they gypsies? > > > > >>There is a LOVELL connection on the TACK branch of my family, and I am >> >> >wondering if they were gypsies, as I understand that this was a common gypsy >surname. I looked them up on the census, which did not give me any >particular clue. However, several of them had (Em'ee), and I wondered what >that might stand for..... does anyone know? and can anyone tell me how I can >determine whether they have gypsy origins or not? > > >>Mary LOVELL was born in Wing and married Henry TACK >> >> >>Many thanks in advance. >>Gill >> >> >>==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== >>Advertising for financial gain is not permitted on this List, although >> >> >subscribers may include a link to their website in their signature. > > >> >> > > >==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== >Questions about the list administration? Contact the listowners: >Dave Carlsen - davidcarlsen@charter.net; Judith Young - Arkleside@btinternet.com > > > >

The fact that the baptisms occurred over several years does not necessarily mean that the family was stationary. Most travelers had a route that they moved through at different times of the year, aiming perhaps to be at one location over Easter and another at Whitsun, or perhaps to catch particular crop seasons where they might either be work or a surplus of a crop that they might be able to get cheaply or free. So if they knew that a particular parson was friendly to travelers (which many were not) they might tend to delay baptisms, regardless of when and where a child was born, until they circled back to that specific parish. And "by the roadside" would support the idea of a friendly parson - one who might stop by and baptize an infant at the parents' camp site instead of requiring that they attend a formal service in a church (which might also offend some of his regular parishioners, unfortunately). Happy hunting! Diana Robinson Now in Rochester, NY, USA -----Original Message----- From: Rosemary Dixon-Smith [mailto:dixonsmithbygad@eastcoast.co.za] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:34 AM To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BKM] LOVELLs - were they gypsies? Can anyone tell me what the phrase "by the roadside" might signify on three baptisms in my GADSDEN family? Bucks origins are indicated for the parents, James and Sarah GADSDEN (no marriage found yet) but their first three children are recording among "baptizings" in parish of St Mary's Whitechapel, Thomas 1757, John 1759 and Sarah 1760 - all with location given as "by the roadside". Other baptisms in the same pages give more understandable locations, like "in Church Lane" or "in Black Lion Yard".