Hi Gill, I don't know the answer but maybe 5 to 7 years ago Wikipedia used to provide explanations. I entered an off-list discussion (with, as it turned out, a retired history teacher!) on the subject using info from Wikipedia and discovered Wikipedia would change almost from hour to hour. The Wikipedia battleground was apparently an online war between current adherents of the various Christian sects who were actually involved at the time compounded by rival Uk v USA camps anxious to over-write each other. Now Wikipedia seems to be silent on the subject! But it still has a reference to an Education Act of 1833 and that may relate to this funding - perhaps through the Established Church - referred to in an individual item: "A Committee of the Privy Council was appointed in 1839 to supervise the distribution of certain Government grants in the education field. The members of the Committee were the Lord President of the Council, the Secretaries of State, the First Lord of the Treasury, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer. From 1857 a Vice President was appointed who took responsibility for policy." There were certainly government-appointed Inspectors of Schools during the period you ask about. Perhaps they supervised the 'church' schools. Here is the first bit of apparently "solid ground" but that is marked as requiring further references to sources : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_Education_Act_1870 This is the kind of thing that was once on Wikipedia http://www.scholieren.com/werkstukken/28215 Would the National Union of Teachers be able to advise you? Sorry that's not much help David On 2/05/2009, at 3:00 AM, Gill Smith wrote: > Hello all you knowledgeable people ! > > This is a general question that I am hoping someone can help me > with. Does anyone know how a person in the mid to late 1850's would > obtain certification as a National Schoolmaster/Mistress? Also how > they obtained their "postings" to the various schools in which they > taught. > > I have a husband and wife who were born and schooled in > Gloucestershire and Wiltshire respectively. Their first joint > posting was to Burton Latimer, Northants. The next to Sowerby, West > Riding, Yorkshire amd lastly to Middleton in Lancashire. > > It would appear that there was some central body directing these > teachers around the country and/or taking applications for > transfers, apart from the original certifications. > > Has anyone come across a website on the subject ? > > Any direction to some kind of information would be much appreciated. > > Gill Smith > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

You might want to look at GoogleBooks and put in 'national schoolmaster.' There is quite a bit to read including a copy of "The National Schoolmaster" from 1885 digitized by Oxford U. Liane

Gill, my wife's gg grandfather attended the Culham Training College -a C of E establishment SE of Abingdon founded in 1852. I have found him in their records. He was originally a servant in a vicar's house, who sponsored him at the college. After probationary periods at a couple of local schools he took charge of the National School in Binfeld. We have the records of the various inspections of the school with comments regarding his efficiency in the various subjects.. His wife was shown on census as schoolmistress - but there is no record of her having received any training! I suspect that the post came as being wife to the schoolmaster!! A daily diary is in the Berkshire RO. One entry records that the school was closed that day as he was burying his son! It also gives details of attendance - which fell markedly during the harvest season! To answer your original question, I think his posting probably came via the college. However you might like to read up on The National Society. This was formed in 1811 with the aim of setting up a school in every parish - so it's possible they exercised a central co-ordinating role. Start with http://www.natsoc.org.uk/society/history/ As for your ancestors - I suggest that you start by looking for training colleges in Gloucestershire and see if they have any record. Probably only the husband attended such a college. John > Hi Gill, > > I don't know the answer but maybe 5 to 7 years ago Wikipedia used to > provide explanations. I entered an off-list discussion (with, as it > turned out, a retired history teacher!) on the subject using info from > Wikipedia and discovered Wikipedia would change almost from hour to > hour. > > The Wikipedia battleground was apparently an online war between > current adherents of the various Christian sects who were actually > involved at the time compounded by rival Uk v USA camps anxious to > over-write each other. > Now Wikipedia seems to be silent on the subject! > > But it still has a reference to an Education Act of 1833 and that may > relate to this funding - perhaps through the Established Church - > referred to in an individual item: > "A Committee of the Privy Council was appointed in 1839 to supervise > the distribution of certain Government grants in the education field. > The members of the Committee were the Lord President of the Council, > the Secretaries of State, the First Lord of the Treasury, and the > Chancellor of the Exchequer. From 1857 a Vice President was appointed > who took responsibility for policy." > > There were certainly government-appointed Inspectors of Schools during > the period you ask about. Perhaps they supervised the 'church' > schools. > > Here is the first bit of apparently "solid ground" but that is marked > as requiring further references to sources : > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_Education_Act_1870 > > This is the kind of thing that was once on Wikipedia > http://www.scholieren.com/werkstukken/28215 > > Would the National Union of Teachers be able to advise you? > > Sorry that's not much help > David > > > On 2/05/2009, at 3:00 AM, Gill Smith wrote: > > >> Hello all you knowledgeable people ! >> >> This is a general question that I am hoping someone can help me >> with. Does anyone know how a person in the mid to late 1850's would >> obtain certification as a National Schoolmaster/Mistress? Also how >> they obtained their "postings" to the various schools in which they >> taught. >> >> I have a husband and wife who were born and schooled in >> Gloucestershire and Wiltshire respectively. Their first joint >> posting was to Burton Latimer, Northants. The next to Sowerby, West >> Riding, Yorkshire amd lastly to Middleton in Lancashire. >> >> It would appear that there was some central body directing these >> teachers around the country and/or taking applications for >> transfers, apart from the original certifications. >> >> Has anyone come across a website on the subject ? >> >> Any direction to some kind of information would be much appreciated. >> >> Gill Smith >> *************************************** >> >> BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ >> BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ >> Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message >> > > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4049 (20090501) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4049 (20090501) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Thank you John for this information. This gives me hope that I can find such information as you have on your gg grandfather. Unlike your situation I have now found the wife in a young ladies training school located in The Close of Salisbury Cathedral - this in 1851 at the age of 17. I had noted that all the schools at which they taught seemed to be closely associated with the church. Much appreciated help from John and David Gill Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Our Mail" <ourmail@chez-williams.com> To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 2:32 AM Subject: Re: [BKM] Off topic - Schoolteachers > Gill, my wife's gg grandfather attended the Culham Training College -a C > of E establishment SE of Abingdon founded in 1852. I have found him in > their records. He was originally a servant in a vicar's house, who > sponsored him at the college. After probationary periods at a couple of > local schools he took charge of the National School in Binfeld. We have > the records of the various inspections of the school with comments > regarding his efficiency in the various subjects.. His wife was shown > on census as schoolmistress - but there is no record of her having > received any training! I suspect that the post came as being wife to > the schoolmaster!! A daily diary is in the Berkshire RO. One entry > records that the school was closed that day as he was burying his son! > It also gives details of attendance - which fell markedly during the > harvest season! > > To answer your original question, I think his posting probably came via > the college. However you might like to read up on The National > Society. This was formed in 1811 with the aim of setting up a school in > every parish - so it's possible they exercised a central co-ordinating > role. Start with http://www.natsoc.org.uk/society/history/ > As for your ancestors - I suggest that you start by looking for training > colleges in Gloucestershire and see if they have any record. Probably > only the husband attended such a college. > > John >> Hi Gill, >> >> I don't know the answer but maybe 5 to 7 years ago Wikipedia used to >> provide explanations. I entered an off-list discussion (with, as it >> turned out, a retired history teacher!) on the subject using info from >> Wikipedia and discovered Wikipedia would change almost from hour to >> hour. >> >> The Wikipedia battleground was apparently an online war between >> current adherents of the various Christian sects who were actually >> involved at the time compounded by rival Uk v USA camps anxious to >> over-write each other. >> Now Wikipedia seems to be silent on the subject! >> >> But it still has a reference to an Education Act of 1833 and that may >> relate to this funding - perhaps through the Established Church - >> referred to in an individual item: >> "A Committee of the Privy Council was appointed in 1839 to supervise >> the distribution of certain Government grants in the education field. >> The members of the Committee were the Lord President of the Council, >> the Secretaries of State, the First Lord of the Treasury, and the >> Chancellor of the Exchequer. From 1857 a Vice President was appointed >> who took responsibility for policy." >> >> There were certainly government-appointed Inspectors of Schools during >> the period you ask about. Perhaps they supervised the 'church' >> schools. >> >> Here is the first bit of apparently "solid ground" but that is marked >> as requiring further references to sources : >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_Education_Act_1870 >> >> This is the kind of thing that was once on Wikipedia >> http://www.scholieren.com/werkstukken/28215 >> >> Would the National Union of Teachers be able to advise you? >> >> Sorry that's not much help >> David >> >> >> On 2/05/2009, at 3:00 AM, Gill Smith wrote: >> >> >>> Hello all you knowledgeable people ! >>> >>> This is a general question that I am hoping someone can help me >>> with. Does anyone know how a person in the mid to late 1850's would >>> obtain certification as a National Schoolmaster/Mistress? Also how >>> they obtained their "postings" to the various schools in which they >>> taught. >>> >>> I have a husband and wife who were born and schooled in >>> Gloucestershire and Wiltshire respectively. Their first joint >>> posting was to Burton Latimer, Northants. The next to Sowerby, West >>> Riding, Yorkshire amd lastly to Middleton in Lancashire. >>> >>> It would appear that there was some central body directing these >>> teachers around the country and/or taking applications for >>> transfers, apart from the original certifications. >>> >>> Has anyone come across a website on the subject ? >>> >>> Any direction to some kind of information would be much appreciated. >>> >>> Gill Smith >>> *************************************** >>> >>> BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ >>> BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ >>> Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >>> >> >> *************************************** >> >> BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ >> BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ >> Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4049 (20090501) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4049 (20090501) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09 14:23:00

Hi Gill Having some National School Teachers in my line I have been down this road a few times, all my wives of National School Teachers were themselves accredited teachers in their own right though I found mention of one of mine (Charlotte YOELL my great grandfathers sister) in the following book on googlebooks http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0CsLAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=National+Society%27s+Monthly+Paper&ei=XZL9Se6LFY2oyASikujuBQ#PPP1,M1 It or similar may be useful in your research, there is alot of information in it which helps There are also some interesting ones on Archive.org such as :- The National School Magazine (1825) It also gives a flavour of the things being taught at that time to children (perhaps they should revert to some of these <g>) Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > Thank you John for this information. This gives me hope that I can find > such information as you have on your gg grandfather. Unlike your > situation > I have now found the wife in a young ladies training school located in The > Close of Salisbury Cathedral - this in 1851 at the age of 17. I had noted > that all the schools at which they taught seemed to be closely associated > with the church. > > Much appreciated help from John and David > > Gill Smith

Thankyou very much, Nivard, for posting this link to the National Society's monthly paper in your recent email to the Bucks List. I found Henry King, listed within the "Male Training Schools - Students" list at Highbury as having been examined at Christmas 1857, in his second year. Was this a mid-term exam? I would like to think that this Henry King was my gg-grandfather. Family notes state that Henry took his teacher training in London, and Highbury appears to be a district in London. He had previously been a "pupil teacher" at Steeple Claydon in 1851, as noted in the census of that year. On December 24th, 1858 my gg-gf Henry King married Emma Grace at Steeple Claydon. On the marriage licence Henry was noted as a Schoolmaster at Kimbolten, Hunts. kind regards, Sharon Starkey, nee King British Columbia, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [BKM] Off topic - Schoolteachers > Hi Gill > > Having some National School Teachers in my line I have been down this road > a > few times, all my wives of National School Teachers were themselves > accredited teachers in their own right though > > I found mention of one of mine (Charlotte YOELL my great grandfathers > sister) in the following book on googlebooks > > http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0CsLAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=National+Society%27s+Monthly+Paper&ei=XZL9Se6LFY2oyASikujuBQ#PPP1,M1 > > It or similar may be useful in your research, there is alot of information > in it which helps > > There are also some interesting ones on Archive.org such as :- > > The National School Magazine (1825) > > It also gives a flavour of the things being taught at that time to > children > (perhaps they should revert to some of these <g>) > > Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > >> Thank you John for this information. This gives me hope that I can find >> such information as you have on your gg grandfather. Unlike your >> situation >> I have now found the wife in a young ladies training school located in >> The >> Close of Salisbury Cathedral - this in 1851 at the age of 17. I had >> noted >> that all the schools at which they taught seemed to be closely associated >> with the church. >> >> Much appreciated help from John and David >> >> Gill Smith > > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

John, Thank you for giving the source for the name National Schools. I see from that site they were actually the schools of the established church. As a foreigner I'd assumed the name meant they were central-government funded and never thought that the name might come from such as the National Society. Thanks for explaining that. David On 3/05/2009, at 6:32 PM, Our Mail wrote: > Gill, my wife's gg grandfather attended the Culham Training College - > a C > . . . . . > > To answer your original question, I think his posting probably came > via > the college. However you might like to read up on The National > Society. This was formed in 1811 with the aim of setting up a > school in > every parish - so it's possible they exercised a central co-ordinating > role. Start with http://www.natsoc.org.uk/society/history/ > As for your ancestors - I suggest that you start by looking for > training > colleges in Gloucestershire and see if they have any record. > Probably > only the husband attended such a college. > > John