Hi Ann, There were Sunday schools also, which would teach them to read the Bible and write a little. Also the Dame schools took them from a very early age. It would be very basic education but they would be able to write their names and read a little. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <marr794@aol.com> To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [BKM] schooling > > I had wondered myself about schooling in England. My Thomas Willmore, b. > abt 1809 in Buckingham, evidently knew how to write at least his name. > Considering his father died when he was 7 -- "Thomas commenced daily labor > at the age of seven. He worked for William Britain for four cents per day > and boarded himself. He resided with his mother until his sixteenth year". > His mother was a lacemaker. When and where would he have gained any > learning? > > Thomas married an Irish girl in America. I have a copy of the birth page > of the family bible. Not sure which of them filled it out, but the writing > looks like schoolchild caligraphy to me -- block letters in what we today > would call old English font, with the letters?quite large for the page. > > Also, I would love to find out who William Brittain was. Would have been > in either Buckingham or Akeley, probably. > > Ann Marr > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Bit late!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Foster BucksFHS" <dave.foster@bucksfhs.org.uk> To: <bucks@rootsweb.com>; <ENG-BUCKINGHAMSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:38 PM Subject: [BKM] Bucks FHS Meeting Tuesday 14th April > The next meeting of the Buckinghamshire Family History Society Southern > Group will take place this coming Tuesday, 14th April. > > This month's talk is by Ian Waller who will talk about Domestic Work > for the Gentry. > > Southern Group meeting take place at Bourne End Community Centre in > Wakeman Road, Bourne End starting at 19:30 with time to browse and chat > before the talk. Directions to the Community Centre are on our website > http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/meetings > > All members and guests (inc possible new members) are welcome. > > We also hold monthly meetings at Aylesbury and Bletchley. Please follow > the link above for further details. > > > -- > Dave Foster - Managing Trustee - Buckinghamshire Family History Society > Charity Registered in England and Wales No. 290335 > Member of the Federation of Family History Societies > E-Mail: dave.foster@bucksfhs.org.uk Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk > > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

According to the BFHS transcription of the Ashendon PRs, there is no burial of a Mary PLESTEAD, under any spelling, in that period. There *is* a burial of Mary PLESTEAD, widow, 25 Mar 1807, & of John PLESTEAD, labourer, 22 Oct 1789. The PLESTEADs (PLAYSTED, PLESTIDE, etc) in Ashendon go back to the beginning of the PRs in 1590, but Mary SPENSER must have come from elsewhere. Paul Liz wrote: > Hello > Mary Spenser married John Plestead 21 Nov 1768 in Ashenden. I am looking for > her death between 1778 & 1784. Does any one have access to PRs for Ashenden > at this time please? > > Thanks in advance > Liz > > >

Hello Mary Spenser married John Plestead 21 Nov 1768 in Ashenden. I am looking for her death between 1778 & 1784. Does any one have access to PRs for Ashenden at this time please? Thanks in advance Liz -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 714 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Wendy taylor <wtaylor1@iinet.net.au>wrote: > To those that were interested, I have Varneys in my tree in Bucks, Any in Silverstone, Nths, or WHITLOCKS or PICKETTS associated with VARNEY? Regards Anne > > -- > Anne PICKETTS > Waipu, NZ > NZSG #5331; KFHS #6151 > Researching in Ireland, Cornwall, Dorset, Sussex, Kent, Yorkshire, Bucks > and Northampton >

Hi Margaret, Bear in mind that a lot of people were only partially literate in the late 1700s/early 1800s. In some instances a child might be taught how to write their own name but nothing else, some people were taught to read the bible but not to write, others could deal with sums/measurements but not literature, etc. Just because someone signed their own name does NOT mean that they were fully literate, or even went to school. It was simply an improvement on "the mark of X". A relative, family friend or neighbour could all have taught the kid their signature and/or a few basic words. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Margaret Holmes" <margaret.holmes4@ntlworld.com> > Subject: [BKM] schools in early 19th century > > I have been reading the book "Henry Mundy - A Young Australian Pioneer" > which has set me wondering about schools in or close to Great Brickhill. > My husband's great great grandfather John Holmes, a shepherd, was seemingly > able to write his name at least. His son George, a groom was similarly > literate. John was born in 1799 and George in 1826 so where at that time > would they have learned to read and write? Henry Mundy went to a school in > Simpson but Leighton Buzzard or Slapton would probably have been nearer to > Great Brickhill. Was there a school in those places between 1805 and 1840? > The National School in Little Brickhill was opened in 1840 so probably > George's children would have gone there. Margaret

I have Elizabeth Verney, b. abt 1806 in Winslow, m. 1835 in Winslow John Wilmore. I would be interested in learning her parents' names -- and any info on her and the Wilmore family. Ann Marr

I had wondered myself about schooling in England. My Thomas Willmore, b. abt 1809 in Buckingham, evidently knew how to write at least his name. Considering his father died when he was 7 -- "Thomas commenced daily labor at the age of seven. He worked for William Britain for four cents per day and boarded himself. He resided with his mother until his sixteenth year". His mother was a lacemaker. When and where would he have gained any learning? Thomas married an Irish girl in America. I have a copy of the birth page of the family bible. Not sure which of them filled it out, but the writing looks like schoolchild caligraphy to me -- block letters in what we today would call old English font, with the letters?quite large for the page. Also, I would love to find out who William Brittain was. Would have been in either Buckingham or Akeley, probably. Ann Marr

To those that were interested, I have Varneys in my tree in Bucks, along with Kings, Richardson, Elley, Walker, Grace, Munday, and many more that married into the families. Cheers Wendy in Australia

Hi Martin and Diana, Thanks for that. My own great great great grandfather was a Vicar in a parish in Montgomeryshire. There was no school in this parish so he started one in the vestry of the church. He had 5 daughters and one son. I do not know whether his children or wife assisted. The vicar died in 1854 so this was prior to that date. From the information gleaned from the 1833 report on education Great Brickhill had a population of 776 but had 3 infant schools and two daily schools. This seems a lot for such a small parish. I would think that some of the infant schools were probably "Dame Schools." These were run by older women to eke out a living in widowhood. For a penny or two a week she would teach them their "letters." Very basic education. I note that Mrs Duncombe supported one of the Daily Schools to the tune of £5 per annum. The schoolmaster would not get very fat on that! Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Robinson" <drobins6@rochester.rr.com> To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:40 PM Subject: [BKM] schools in early 19th century > In some parishes, one of the "duties" of the vicar's wife - and sometimes > older teenage daughters - was to run an evening class in simple writing > and > arithmetic for the "men and boys" of the village. I have notes from a > rural > vicar's family - distant relatives - in 1875 in which this was an ongoing > event. (One may suspect that the assistance of the teenage daughters > increased attendance from the young men of the village, of course.) This > family was in Wiltshire, but I would assume that a similar tradition was > carried out elsewhere. Most schooling for poorer folk who could not afford > private school was carried out in "church schools" in England well into > the > 1900s and I'm guessing that these grew out of the less formal classes that > were originated by the Vicar and his family. > > Happy hunting! > > Diana Robinson (nee Gardner) > Now in Rochester, NY, USA > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:02:52 +0100 > From: "Margaret Holmes" <margaret.holmes4@ntlworld.com> > Subject: [BKM] schools in early 19th century > To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <0847D5CAF52E40538CCEC5E123268543@holmesd428a94c> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > I have been reading the book "Henry Mundy - A Young Australian Pioneer" > which has set me wondering about schools in or close to Great Brickhill. > My husband's great great grandfather John Holmes, a shepherd, was > seemingly > able to write his name at least. His son George, a groom was similarly > literate. John was born in 1799 and George in 1826 so where at that time > would they have learned to read and write? Henry Mundy went to a school in > Simpson but Leighton Buzzard or Slapton would probably have been nearer to > Great Brickhill. Was there a school in those places between 1805 and 1840? > The National School in Little Brickhill was opened in 1840 so probably > George's children would have gone there. Margaret > > > > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Paul Sorry, I thought someone told me you were researching the Varney family, my mistake. Carol ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Irving" <pauljirving@ntlworld.com> To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [BKM] Varney > Not that I know of. But I did have a friend called Varney at primary > school in Aylesbury. ;) > > carol emes wrote: >> Paul, I'm I right in thinking you are related to the Varney family of >> Mentmore/Wing,Bucks? >> >> Carol >> > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Not that I know of. But I did have a friend called Varney at primary school in Aylesbury. ;) carol emes wrote: > Paul, I'm I right in thinking you are related to the Varney family of > Mentmore/Wing,Bucks? > > Carol >

Paul, I'm I right in thinking you are related to the Varney family of Mentmore/Wing,Bucks? Carol ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Irving" <pauljirving@ntlworld.com> To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [BKM] schools in early 19th century > One of my ancestors signed a census enumeration form for the canal boat > of which he was master. His signature appears to have been written > slowly & carefully, & the rest of the form was filled in in another, > much more fluent, hand - with his surname spelt differently. I think > that he could only write his name, & might not have been able to read > even that. I doubt he ever went to school. > > Being able to write ones own name is not necessarily an indication of > having any schooling. > > Paul > > It's possible to learn to > > Margaret Holmes wrote: >> I have been reading the book "Henry Mundy - A Young Australian Pioneer" >> which has set me wondering about schools in or close to Great Brickhill. >> My husband's great great grandfather John Holmes, a shepherd, was >> seemingly able to write his name at least. His son George, a groom was >> similarly literate. > > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

One of my relies was a British School Master in Haddenham in mid 19c. In his diary he often writes entries like "Monday - about 40 boys at school today". The attendance seemed to vary quite considerably from just a handful on the worst days to upwards of a 100. Apart from when he mentions bad weather he does not give any reasons for the variation. In one entry he says "This week I have allowed a brother and sister to attend school alternatively for 2 weekly I prefer this to making half weeks" - maybe the family could only afford to send one or spare one from work? If they are paying there is no mention of the cost, though in another entry in 1855 he says that he takes four boys for the school into his house to board. He charges their parents £3 per quarter for lodging, board and instruction if they board 7 days a week and £2 5s when it's Monday to Friday only. Martin On 14 Apr 2009, at 04:52, Margaret Holmes wrote: > Hi Nivard, Thanks for the reply. I do realise that but the family > did seem > to value education as George's sons seem to be reasonably well > educated for > the time. George's grandson, Arthur Herbert did even better and > became an > architect, which as the son of an estate carpenter at Bletchley Park > was > pretty amazing. Sir Herbert and Lady Leon seem to have taken a great > interest in education. I wondered if the Duncombs did too. They did > but to a > limited extent. Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> > To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:16 PM > Subject: Re: [BKM] schools in early 19th century > > >> Hi Margaret >> >> I have often seen it said many people could write their name but >> little if >> nothing else, like today I suspect a lot depended upon the parents >> as to >> how >> or if they learned to read or write and like today what importance >> they >> placed upon their childrens education , who taught you to read and >> write? >> I >> could certainly do both before I went to school as my parents >> taught me >> >> Because someone signed the marriage register (which is the usual >> evidence >> given for literacy) does not necessarily mean they were what we >> would call >> literate , do you have any other evidence ? >> >> Likewise someone's X on the register isn't proof of illiteracy, if >> the >> minister said put your mark there, I suspect some did just that even >> though >> they could sign >> >> I cannot recall his name but recall reading of a well known poet who >> taught >> himself to read while working as a shepherd of ag lab parents >> (perhaps >> someone else knows his name?) >> >> Heres a brief timeline of education in England which may help (or >> not <g>) >> http://www.dg.dial.pipex.com/history/timeline.shtml >> >> If not from the parents I would be looking at Sunday schools as a >> possible >> source of education at the time you are asking about >> >> Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) >> >> >>> I have been reading the book "Henry Mundy - A Young Australian >>> Pioneer" >>> which has set me wondering about schools in or close to Great >>> Brickhill. >>> My husband's great great grandfather John Holmes, a shepherd, was >>> seemingly able to write his name at least. His son George, a groom >>> was >>> similarly literate. John was born in 1799 and George in 1826 so >>> where at >>> that time would they have learned to read and write? Henry Mundy >>> went to >>> a >>> school in Simpson but Leighton Buzzard or Slapton would probably >>> have >>> been >>> nearer to Great Brickhill. Was there a school in those places >>> between >>> 1805 >>> and 1840? The National School in Little Brickhill was opened in >>> 1840 so >>> probably George's children would have gone there. Margaret >> >> *************************************** >> >> BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ >> BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ >> Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

In some parishes, one of the "duties" of the vicar's wife - and sometimes older teenage daughters - was to run an evening class in simple writing and arithmetic for the "men and boys" of the village. I have notes from a rural vicar's family - distant relatives - in 1875 in which this was an ongoing event. (One may suspect that the assistance of the teenage daughters increased attendance from the young men of the village, of course.) This family was in Wiltshire, but I would assume that a similar tradition was carried out elsewhere. Most schooling for poorer folk who could not afford private school was carried out in "church schools" in England well into the 1900s and I'm guessing that these grew out of the less formal classes that were originated by the Vicar and his family. Happy hunting! Diana Robinson (nee Gardner) Now in Rochester, NY, USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:02:52 +0100 From: "Margaret Holmes" <margaret.holmes4@ntlworld.com> Subject: [BKM] schools in early 19th century To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <0847D5CAF52E40538CCEC5E123268543@holmesd428a94c> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" I have been reading the book "Henry Mundy - A Young Australian Pioneer" which has set me wondering about schools in or close to Great Brickhill. My husband's great great grandfather John Holmes, a shepherd, was seemingly able to write his name at least. His son George, a groom was similarly literate. John was born in 1799 and George in 1826 so where at that time would they have learned to read and write? Henry Mundy went to a school in Simpson but Leighton Buzzard or Slapton would probably have been nearer to Great Brickhill. Was there a school in those places between 1805 and 1840? The National School in Little Brickhill was opened in 1840 so probably George's children would have gone there. Margaret

<<No not he, I have racked my brain but cannot recall who it was but I know it was a household name as well known as Milton.? He was the son of ag lab parents and taught himself while working as a shepherd, I wish I could remember who it was now>> James Hogg, the 'Ettrick Shepherd' (1770-1835)?? His formal schooling ended almost as soon as it as it began, at the age of 6, when his father became bankrupt, and I see from his DNB biography that 'he began once again to master the long-neglected skill of reading' when he became a shepherd in his late teens. Matt ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

Hi Matt No not he, I have racked my brain but cannot recall who it was but I know it was a household name as well known as Milton He was the son of ag lab parents and taught himself while working as a shepherd, I wish I could remember who it was now If I do I will let you know Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > <<I cannot recall his name but recall reading of a well known poet who > taught > himself to read while working as a shepherd of ag lab parents? (perhaps > someone else knows his name?)>> > > > You might be thinking of John Clare, the ag lab poet from Helpston in > Northants (1793-1864).? He wasn't a shepherd, but his third book of poems > was entitled The Shepherd's Calendar.? His mother (the daughter of a > shepherd) was illiterate but his father (the illegitimate child of an > itinerant schoolmaster) could read a little - however John himself learnt > to read and write in school, first at the local dame-school in Helpston > and later a vestry school in nearby Glinton.? He did gain his interest in > poetry while working in the fields, though - when the son of a farmer he > worked for read a poem to him. > > Matt Tompkins

Hi Nivard, Thanks for the reply. I do realise that but the family did seem to value education as George's sons seem to be reasonably well educated for the time. George's grandson, Arthur Herbert did even better and became an architect, which as the son of an estate carpenter at Bletchley Park was pretty amazing. Sir Herbert and Lady Leon seem to have taken a great interest in education. I wondered if the Duncombs did too. They did but to a limited extent. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> To: <bucks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [BKM] schools in early 19th century > Hi Margaret > > I have often seen it said many people could write their name but little if > nothing else, like today I suspect a lot depended upon the parents as to > how > or if they learned to read or write and like today what importance they > placed upon their childrens education , who taught you to read and write? > I > could certainly do both before I went to school as my parents taught me > > Because someone signed the marriage register (which is the usual evidence > given for literacy) does not necessarily mean they were what we would call > literate , do you have any other evidence ? > > Likewise someone's X on the register isn't proof of illiteracy, if the > minister said put your mark there, I suspect some did just that even > though > they could sign > > I cannot recall his name but recall reading of a well known poet who > taught > himself to read while working as a shepherd of ag lab parents (perhaps > someone else knows his name?) > > Heres a brief timeline of education in England which may help (or not <g>) > http://www.dg.dial.pipex.com/history/timeline.shtml > > If not from the parents I would be looking at Sunday schools as a possible > source of education at the time you are asking about > > Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > >>I have been reading the book "Henry Mundy - A Young Australian Pioneer" >>which has set me wondering about schools in or close to Great Brickhill. >> My husband's great great grandfather John Holmes, a shepherd, was >> seemingly able to write his name at least. His son George, a groom was >> similarly literate. John was born in 1799 and George in 1826 so where at >> that time would they have learned to read and write? Henry Mundy went to >> a >> school in Simpson but Leighton Buzzard or Slapton would probably have >> been >> nearer to Great Brickhill. Was there a school in those places between >> 1805 >> and 1840? The National School in Little Brickhill was opened in 1840 so >> probably George's children would have gone there. Margaret > > *************************************** > > BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ > BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ > Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BUCKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

<<I cannot recall his name but recall reading of a well known poet who taught himself to read while working as a shepherd of ag lab parents? (perhaps someone else knows his name?)>> You might be thinking of John Clare, the ag lab poet from Helpston in Northants (1793-1864).? He wasn't a shepherd, but his third book of poems was entitled The Shepherd's Calendar.? His mother (the daughter of a shepherd) was illiterate but his father (the illegitimate child of an itinerant schoolmaster) could read a little - however John himself learnt to read and write in school, first at the local dame-school in Helpston and later a vestry school in nearby Glinton.? He did gain his interest in poetry while working in the fields, though - when the son of a farmer he worked for read a poem to him. Matt Tompkins ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

The next meeting of the Buckinghamshire Family History Society Southern Group will take place this coming Tuesday, 14th April. This month's talk is by Ian Waller who will talk about Domestic Work for the Gentry. Southern Group meeting take place at Bourne End Community Centre in Wakeman Road, Bourne End starting at 19:30 with time to browse and chat before the talk. Directions to the Community Centre are on our website http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/meetings All members and guests (inc possible new members) are welcome. We also hold monthly meetings at Aylesbury and Bletchley. Please follow the link above for further details. -- Dave Foster - Managing Trustee - Buckinghamshire Family History Society Charity Registered in England and Wales No. 290335 Member of the Federation of Family History Societies E-Mail: dave.foster@bucksfhs.org.uk Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk