Hi, I have just recently received a copy of a will dated in the late 1700's and another from the early 1800's both mentioning properties owned during those times and I just wondered if it is possible at all to search for records or documents of the properties mentioned and how I might go about that - whether papers or maps might perhaps exist from them. I wonder is it the local genealogy societies that I would need to go through? I would really appreciate any advice at all. The properties seem to have been in Buckinghamshire and Middlesex. Thankyou very much. Kind regards, Tina Connell

Hi, I have recently received a will from the late 1700's that lists a copyhold cottage as well as some freehold land and I just wondered if anybody could please explain to me what copyhold means? Thankyou very much. Kind regards, Tina Connell

For those of you searching in Canada, the 1881 census is at www.familysearch.org and the 1901 is available through the Canadian archives at www.archives.ca or directly through (with actual page viewing/printing available a page in sections at a time) www.automatedgenealogy.com Hopefully the 1911 will be released soon too. If you do a general search there may be others available or parts of others available online through various Canadian or other websites or genealogy societies. See the original posts below for more info on the hold up with the 1911 one. ----- Original Message ----- From: <e.thompson2@ukonline.co.uk> To: "chicoyne" <bharrison11@rogers.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [BKM] Advice please > Hi, > Thanks for the information, I will look out for it in due course, hopefully in > 2005? > Eileen > Quoting chicoyne <bharrison11@rogers.com>: > > > Hopefully the 1911 census will be released and online soon. It is under > > debate in parliament. The Chief Statician & Members of Parliament in Ottawa is stalling due to > > privacy issues. The Cdn. law as it stands now, however, is that it is to be > > released after so many years, so it should have been released 3 almost 4 > > years ago. Watch for it's release. The National Archives of Canada will > > probably carry the info once it is released. The 1901 is at www.automated > > genealogy Perhaps the 1911 will be there too once it's released. Good luck > > in your research. > > B. Harrison, Ontario, Canada > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <e.thompson2@ukonline.co.uk> > > To: "chicoyne" <bharrison11@rogers.com> > > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 2:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [BKM] Advice please > > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestion, the trouble is he was only 11 years old in > > 1901 > > > and wason the English 1901 census, so his exploits to and from Canada were > > > most likely to have been about another 10 years on. > > > However, it was nice of you to try to help. > > > Eileen > > > Quoting chicoyne <bharrison11@rogers.com>: > > > > > > > You could try searching the 1901 census online, free. You can do a > > > > countrywide search or a provincial/name search. > > > > www.automatedgenealogy.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "eileen thompson" <e.thompson2@ukonline.co.uk> > > > > To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:09 PM > > > > Subject: [BKM] Advice please > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to trace someone (born circa 1890) who went to Canada and > > joined > > > > the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, served in WW1, got wounded and was > > > > hospitalised at Egham before going back to Canada. > > > > > I have no idea what records etc. I need to look at and what can be > > done > > > > via the internet, so any advice will be most welcome. > > > > > Eileen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > > > > > To view recent downloadable photos of Bucks churches and village > > scenes, > > > > courtesy of Peter and Kevin Quick, visit: > > > > > http://www.countyviews.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net >

Hi, Wow, I'm really impressed with the number of contacts to and from List Members, I guess the question has already been answered. Seasons Greetings to all, keep safe & well so that you can continue to pursue those elusive family members in the New Year. Regards, Trish. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn Ponting" <genea@dccnet.com> To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:16 AM Subject: RE: [BKM] Birth Date of Mary Fletcher > I can't find them in the Northants 1851 index. > > Here are the few BUTCHERs with Bucks connections. > > Wellingborough 2a 16 > John 29 born Northampton > Emily 23 born Newport Pagnell > > Addington 23 > William 23 born Steeple Claydon > Ann 46 born Lt Addington > > Northampton St Andrew 8j 21 > William 31 born Stoke Golden > Eliza 30 born Turvey > > Pattishall 5a > Thomas 72 born Hanslope > Ann 64 born Pattishall > > Cheers > Marilyn > British Columbia > > http://www.northants1841.fsnet.co.uk/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Irving [mailto:pauljirving@ntlworld.com] > > Sent: December 14, 2004 2:19 AM > > To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BKM] Birth Date of Mary Fletcher > > > > > > I really should have replied to the list .. .. .. > > > > What looks very much like Marys parents are in the 1851 census in > > Padbury, with matching christenings on the IGI for those children still > > living with them (Joseph was a cordwainer, & had two sons in the trade > > living with him). There's a christening for a Mary on the IGI in 1818. > > But no sign of William & Mary in Bucks in 1851. > > > > I told Alan that, in more detail, & explained about "at least 21". > > > > What I didn't say was that I speculated that a cordwainer might have > > moved to Northampton, which is very close, & where the shoe industry was > > growing at the time, putting small shoemakers out of business. So what > > if William was in the same trade? Might be worth looking in the 1841 > > Padbury census, & I'd look in the 1851 Northamptonshire census, > > if I had it. > > > > Paul > > > > Toni Skidmore wrote: > > > > >Hi Alan, > > > > > >Padbury is just southeast of Buckingham town in northwestern > > Bucks - there is more information about it here: > > > > > >http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/Padbury/Index.html > > > > > >And from the pinpoint location on the map on that page, you will > > be able to see it on a Parish map of Buckinghamshire here: > > > > > >http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/hundreds/ahunmap.html > > > > > >BUTCHER is a very prevalent surname in the area; FLETCHER > > somewhat less so. I don't see either of the two you are looking > > for in Tingewick, which is on the other side of Buckingham. Do > > you have William's father's name? > > > > > >Do you have the family in the 1851 census, or any later census > > for that matter? This should give you Mary's place and > > (approximate) year of birth. It will be easier to try to find > > her baptism once we know this. I'd not hold out a lot of hope > > for finding an exact date of birth in this time period, though. > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Toni Skidmore > > >Tingewick list Co-Admin > > >Chicago, USA > > >Researching: CLIFFORD/CLIFTON, DEAN, HOLLAND, NEAL(E), and > > NOQUET in Bucks > > >-------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hi Everybody, > > >> > > >>I recently purchased a Marriage Certificate of William Butcher and Mary > > >>Fletcher who were married in the Church in Padbury in > > Buckinghamshire on 24 > > >>February 1842. > > >> > > >>Mary's age was shown as 21. Could some kind person please be > > able to find > > >>out for me, if possible, her date of birth. Her fathers name > > was Joseph and > > >>if possible i would like to know her mothers name. > > >> > > >>Where in Buckinghamshire is Padbury please? > > >> > > >>Many thanks > > >> > > >>Alan > > >>Australia > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > > >To view recent downloadable photos of Bucks churches and village > > scenes, courtesy of Peter and Kevin Quick, visit: > > >http://www.countyviews.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > To search the BUCKS list message archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=BUCKS > >

<<I have recently received a will from the late 1700's that lists a copyhold cottage as well as some freehold land and I just wondered if anybody could please explain to me what copyhold means? Thankyou very much. Kind regards, Tina Connell>> Hello Tina, at the present day there are two ways of owning landed property - 1. freehold and 2. through a lease or tenancy. But until 1925 there was a third way - copyhold. Before I say something about copyhold, it is necessary first to explain something else. Nowadays we think of a tenancy as just a shorter and less formal type of lease, but technically all forms of ownership are tenancies, and every owner of property has a landlord, even freeholders (their landlord is the Queen, as she is the feudal lord of the whole country). Nowadays that freehold lordship is purely technical, and for all practical purposes a freeholder is the absolute owner of his land, beholden to nobody, but in the medieval past things were very different. Then every freeholder had a lord, and had to pay him a rent or even work on his land - the difference between freeholders and the rest was just that freeholders paid smaller rents and had to do much less work (and were personally free - they weren't serfs). Most of the rest of the rural population were serfs. They held their land on a kind of tenancy that was halfway between a freehold tenancy and what we nowadays call leasehold or tenancy. In the middle ages their kind of tenancy was called a customary tenancy (also called a native or villein or bond tenancy), but around 1500 it began to be called copyhold (because ownership was recorded in the lord's manor court roll and the tenant was given a copy of the entry on the roll as his title deed). There were different kinds of copyhold, but in many parts of England (broadly the eastern half, including Bucks) the most prevalent sort was a type called 'copyhold of inheritance' which was not greatly different from a freehold - you just had to pay a lot more to the lord. However the rents were often fixed (ie the lord couldn't increase them - ever), so that what had been a very heavy burden in the middle ages became much easier to pay after the inflation of the Tudor period. However copyholders had to make a number of other payments which lords could use to effect a kind of rent increase. Every time the owner died or sold the property he make a payment called heriot (it was usually the 'best beast', the most valuable animal on the holding - their value increased with inflation), and the heir or purchaser had to make another payment called a fine. In may areas this last payment could be any amount the lord chose to demand, so they could use this to effect a kind of rent! increase to compensate for the falling value of the real rents. But in some areas even the amount of the fines was fixed by custom, and here the copyholds were almost as valuable as freeholds. (In other areas, notably the western half of the country, 'copyhold for lives' was more common. Here properties were held for the lives of a number of named persons - frequently the tenant, his wife and their son. Once the third named person had died the property reverted back to the lord, who could charge whatever he liked to allow that person's heir to inherit, or sell it someone else.) In the 16th and 17th centuries most of the land in any given manor would have been copyhold, but it mostly disappeared in the 18th and early 19th centuries, as lords bought it back from their tenants (or, in the west, just took it back) and re-let it to tenant farmers on modern leases and tenancies. In 1925 all copyholds were converted into freeholds. Matt Tompkins Blaston, Leics

Hi, I recently found out that 3 of my Grandfather's sisters all died in the Aylesbury District, probably Aylesbury, in the 1970's and 1980's. I have yet to obtain the Death Certificates. The addresses are from the Electoral Rolls. If anyone has any personal knowledge of these ladies I would be grateful if you would contact me off-list. I would love to be able to get to know them, as at present all I have is the little knowledge gleaned from my Mother when she visited Aylesbury in the 1920's, when she was a child. I had no idea that they had lived until long, I mean really long, after I was born. Gertrude [CHAPMAN] WRIGHT d. March Qtr 1970 age 74 : Last known address - 9 Manor Road in 1970 : Gertrude's husband had died in 1938 : Annie Jane CHAPMAN d. March Qtr 1976 age 89 : Last known address - 9 Manor Road, Aylesbury in 1975 : Ethel Beatrice CHAPMAN d. June Qtr 1983 age 90 : Last known address - 9a Manor Road in 1980 : Pamela

Has anyone come across Alphonso Sigismund Redrup when searching the 1871 census? In 1861 he was aged 20 and living in Prestwood, the son of the village baker. He died in the Shakespears Head, Great Marlborough Street, London in 1874 aged 29, occupation publican. I've tried Ancestry's 1871 index without success. Ruth

thanks very much Paul - sorry to be thick but what does LMS stand for and where can i find their records? ALison >From: Paul Irving <pauljirving@ntlworld.com> >To: Alison PAGE <alisonpage74@hotmail.com> >Subject: Re: [BKM] RE: Railway workers >Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:49:33 +0000 > >Since each railway company owned the track its trains ran on, he most >certainly would have been working for a particular railway. I don't believe >they used subcontractors for maintenance: railways back then were >vertically integrated organisations, doing absolutely everything in-house, >including designing & building their own locomotives & rolling stock. So >he'd probably have been listed in rail company records. I think the LMS >owned the railway near Wing. > >Paul > >Alison PAGE wrote: > >>My great grandfather was a plate layer on the railways when they arrived >>near Wing. he changed to this having previously been an ag lab. would >>these men have been affiliated to a particular railway? or be listed in >>rail company records or were the labourers separately employed? >> >>Any information gratefully received. Thankyou >> >>Alison >> >> >> > >

Hmm. Wouldn't that enquiry be better addressed to the Hampshire list? Now I know why I couldn't find them on the Bucks GS 1891 census CD. Paul MARTIN SEAR wrote: > Hi, > In 1881 Mary E Barron was 35 and living in the royal oak in Portsea > Hampshire.In 1901 He has a different wife,They were married in Portsea > in 1868 she was under the name Elizabeth Wyatt. > Hope this helps > Martin. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Irving" > <pauljirving@ntlworld.com> > To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: [BKM] Barron > > >> Can you say anything more? e.g. where & when (As far as you know) >> James, Jane and Elizabeth Mary were born, & where they lived in 1881? >> That might help identify them in 1891. >> >> Paul >> >> MARTIN SEAR wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> Trying to locate My Elizabeth Mary Barron (Re Wyatt).She married >>> James Andrew Barron in 1868 and was around as Mary I Barron in 1881. >>> If anybody has access to the 1891 census could they confirm her >>> existence James Barron married my Grand mother Jane Sear in 1891, >>> but I do not know happened to her >>> >>> >>> ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== >>> Questions about the list administration? Contact the listowners: >>> Dave Carlsen - davidcarlsen@charter.net; Judith Young - >>> Arkleside@btinternet.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== >> Your signature should be no more than 3 lines long and should not >> include surname interests which are outside the scope of this List. >> >> > > >

Can you say anything more? e.g. where & when (As far as you know) James, Jane and Elizabeth Mary were born, & where they lived in 1881? That might help identify them in 1891. Paul MARTIN SEAR wrote: >Hi, >Trying to locate My Elizabeth Mary Barron (Re Wyatt).She married James Andrew Barron in 1868 and was around as Mary I Barron in 1881. >If anybody has access to the 1891 census could they confirm her existence James Barron married my Grand mother Jane Sear in 1891, but I do not know happened to her > > >==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== >Questions about the list administration? Contact the listowners: >Dave Carlsen - davidcarlsen@charter.net; Judith Young - Arkleside@btinternet.com > > > >

My great grandfather was a plate layer on the railways when they arrived near Wing. he changed to this having previously been an ag lab. would these men have been affiliated to a particular railway? or be listed in rail company records or were the labourers separately employed? Any information gratefully received. Thankyou Alison >From: "Wraith, David" <dwraith@handsa.co.uk> >To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [BKM] RE: Railwaymen, WRAITH, DIMMOCK >Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:06:24 -0000 > >Eve, thank you for your reply on this. >I have already looked into the railway company angle. The company was >originally the Yorkshire Railway Company, which soon became the Lancashire >& Yorkshire Railway Company. Their records are at the National Archive, >Kew, along with most railway companies. I have searched the index online >and there is very little of that age for the company unfortunately. >There is a list for railway genealogists: >http://www.british-genealogy.com/mailman/listinfo/gen-railwaymen and a >gentleman called Geoffrey Oxley, who is Research Officer, Railway and Canal >Historical Society (they have a good website), gave me a lot of help. He is >extremely knowledgable. >Your comments about William Wraith's education are very interesting and his >ancestors were mainly railway clerks down to my father (I even did a short >temp stint in the job!). At least some of them were reputed to be smart >(genes worn thin now though). I am struggling to confirm his birth date as >he gave his age as 35 in the 1841 census (i.e. born between 8 June 1801 and >7 June 1806 I think), and 47 in the 1851 census (i.e. born between 1 April >1803 and 30 March 1804 I think) and the only William Wraith in the >Hollingbourne PR's was baptised 20 December 1801. I don't think he would >have got his age wrong. >With respect to the Dimmock line, the earliest I have come from Wootton >near Bedford, Joseph born around 1737 from his MI. He was a yeoman farmer >who owned his land so I assume the family had been there for some time. I >know there were and are a lot of Dimmocks in Bucks (I live in Berkhamsted) >but I haven't found a link yet. >Any other suggestions gratefully received. > >Many thanks > >David Wraith > >-----Original Message----- >From: Eve McLaughlin [mailto:eve@varneys.demon.co.uk] >Sent: 13 December 2004 22:27 >To: Wraith, David >Cc: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: Railwaymen > > > > > >William gave his occupation as servant, which could mean > >many things. >Possibly in this case 'railway servant' which included clerks etc. > >However they moved to Wakefield, Yorks around 1840 and by 1841 his >occupation > >was Railway Inspector. By 1851 he was the station master in Wakefield. > >In your previous response you made reference to the difficulty in getting >a job > >as a station employee. I have often wondered how a country boy from Kent, > >working far from home, managed to get what was probably a very good job >at the > >other end of the country. > >He must have had a reasonable education, since clerks were expected to >write a very neat hand, deal with maths etc. And to become a station >master he must have been a high flyer. It will certainly be worth >looking for him in the records of the railway company. Finding out which >railway co is the first necessity - maybe (London and) North Eastern, or >maybe one of the cross Pennine lines. Writing to the Railway Museum in >York may get the necessary information in this case (saying he was >stationmaster at Wakerfield). > > >I don't recall having seen you mention your railway ancestors before in >your > >many postings so was interested to see the comment. My Dimmock line were >yeoman > >farmers in Bedfordshire around Wootton. William Dimmock, > >well known Bucks name. > > son of a yeoman farmer > >was born 1805, became a tenant farmer (coincidentally near Sherington I >think) > >as his inheritance wasn't very big. His son Barnard, b 1831, worked on >the farm > >at first, then moved to Newport Pagnell where he became a corn merchant. >His > >father William retired and lived with him. The business presumably failed >as > >both father and son then went to work on the railway, the old boy as a >porter > >and the son as a labourer at Wolverton loco works. The family then moved >to > >Derby where many of them worked in the loco and carriage & wagon works. >The > >story seems to be typical of the move from working on the land to >industrial > >towns. > >There are some recoprds of the Wolverton Works in the Milton Keyenes >Museum (open spring-autumn - and you need a special appointment to see >the railway staff books, because someone h as to sit with you.) > >-- >Eve McLaughlin > >Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians >Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >* * * * >This electronic message and any files transmitted with it are >confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual >or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the >intended recipient, please notify our Information Technology >Group immediately on - 020-7413-9600. Do not disclose the >contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store >or copy the information in any medium. Any opinion expressed >in this message or any attachment is not necessarily the >opinion of Teknica UK Ltd. We make every effort to keep our >network free from viruses although we can take no >responsibility for any computer virus which may be transferred >by way of this e-mail. >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >* * * * > > >==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== >Your signature should be no more than 3 lines long and should not include >surname interests which are outside the scope of this List. >

The National Archives at Kew have most of the railway company archives. From memory you can search to see what they have before visiting. David -----Original Message----- From: Hamilton, Andrew [mailto:AH515164@NCR.COM] Sent: 14 December 2004 12:42 To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [BKM] Railwaymen In my family I have 3 generations of Elmes who worked on the Great Western Railway. William who was a policeman in 1841 (died 1845 age 45), Alfred who was a plate layer in 1881 and William who was an train driver in the 1910's (died in 1917 of pneumonia after having been stuck in a snow storm while working as a train driver). As yet I do not have information from the 1861, 1871 and 1891 records to find out what Alfred was doing in these years. Does anyone know how I could get more information on their working lives? Are records kept somewhere of GWR employees? Thanks, Andrew ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== Your signature should be no more than 3 lines long and should not include surname interests which are outside the scope of this List. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This electronic message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify our Information Technology Group immediately on - 020-7413-9600. Do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Any opinion expressed in this message or any attachment is not necessarily the opinion of Teknica UK Ltd. We make every effort to keep our network free from viruses although we can take no responsibility for any computer virus which may be transferred by way of this e-mail. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Hello List, Would like to contact anyone researching this West Wycombe Family if pos. I shall be unsubed from 16 to 22 With thanks Pete.

Hi, Trying to locate My Elizabeth Mary Barron (Re Wyatt).She married James Andrew Barron in 1868 and was around as Mary I Barron in 1881. If anybody has access to the 1891 census could they confirm her existence James Barron married my Grand mother Jane Sear in 1891, but I do not know happened to her

Hi there, Could someone check out a family in the Census` above - to check this family are still there? ANSTEE William HD 58 Cordwainer Journeyman Elizabeth W 56 Shoe Binder George SO 30 Cordwainer John SO 21 Cordwainer Harrold SO 16 Regards & many thanks Pat

Eve, thank you for your reply on this. I have already looked into the railway company angle. The company was originally the Yorkshire Railway Company, which soon became the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Company. Their records are at the National Archive, Kew, along with most railway companies. I have searched the index online and there is very little of that age for the company unfortunately. There is a list for railway genealogists: http://www.british-genealogy.com/mailman/listinfo/gen-railwaymen and a gentleman called Geoffrey Oxley, who is Research Officer, Railway and Canal Historical Society (they have a good website), gave me a lot of help. He is extremely knowledgable. Your comments about William Wraith's education are very interesting and his ancestors were mainly railway clerks down to my father (I even did a short temp stint in the job!). At least some of them were reputed to be smart (genes worn thin now though). I am struggling to confirm his birth date as he gave his age as 35 in the 1841 census (i.e. born between 8 June 1801 and 7 June 1806 I think), and 47 in the 1851 census (i.e. born between 1 April 1803 and 30 March 1804 I think) and the only William Wraith in the Hollingbourne PR's was baptised 20 December 1801. I don't think he would have got his age wrong. With respect to the Dimmock line, the earliest I have come from Wootton near Bedford, Joseph born around 1737 from his MI. He was a yeoman farmer who owned his land so I assume the family had been there for some time. I know there were and are a lot of Dimmocks in Bucks (I live in Berkhamsted) but I haven't found a link yet. Any other suggestions gratefully received. Many thanks David Wraith -----Original Message----- From: Eve McLaughlin [mailto:eve@varneys.demon.co.uk] Sent: 13 December 2004 22:27 To: Wraith, David Cc: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Railwaymen >William gave his occupation as servant, which could mean >many things. Possibly in this case 'railway servant' which included clerks etc. >However they moved to Wakefield, Yorks around 1840 and by 1841 his occupation >was Railway Inspector. By 1851 he was the station master in Wakefield. >In your previous response you made reference to the difficulty in getting a job >as a station employee. I have often wondered how a country boy from Kent, >working far from home, managed to get what was probably a very good job at the >other end of the country. He must have had a reasonable education, since clerks were expected to write a very neat hand, deal with maths etc. And to become a station master he must have been a high flyer. It will certainly be worth looking for him in the records of the railway company. Finding out which railway co is the first necessity - maybe (London and) North Eastern, or maybe one of the cross Pennine lines. Writing to the Railway Museum in York may get the necessary information in this case (saying he was stationmaster at Wakerfield). >I don't recall having seen you mention your railway ancestors before in your >many postings so was interested to see the comment. My Dimmock line were yeoman >farmers in Bedfordshire around Wootton. William Dimmock, well known Bucks name. > son of a yeoman farmer >was born 1805, became a tenant farmer (coincidentally near Sherington I think) >as his inheritance wasn't very big. His son Barnard, b 1831, worked on the farm >at first, then moved to Newport Pagnell where he became a corn merchant. His >father William retired and lived with him. The business presumably failed as >both father and son then went to work on the railway, the old boy as a porter >and the son as a labourer at Wolverton loco works. The family then moved to >Derby where many of them worked in the loco and carriage & wagon works. The >story seems to be typical of the move from working on the land to industrial >towns. There are some recoprds of the Wolverton Works in the Milton Keyenes Museum (open spring-autumn - and you need a special appointment to see the railway staff books, because someone h as to sit with you.) -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This electronic message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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John asks about the whereabouts of Probate records in Wakefield. The Registry of Deeds, Newstead Road, Wakefield. You need to book your visit and request the records in advance, and visiting hours are limited. Tel 01924 305983. Website www.archives.wyjs.org.uk. The Registry is within 5 mins walk of the station (Wakefield Westgate). Or about 10 mins from the M1. I can give you directions and parking advice if required. Richard

Hi Allan, Could you tell us the names of the Witnesses? Also what age was William & what was his father's name? Did the certificate say if the happy couple were both living in Padbury at the time? They are all clues. Regards, Trish. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEVIN SUTTON" <kevin.sutton2@btinternet.com> To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:22 AM Subject: [BKM] UK BMD certificates (was 'Birth Date') > Hello Alan, > She may well have been 21, but is more likely to be over 21. Unfortunately > this is just another way of saying 'of full age'. > Anybody seeking an understanding of UK certificates need look no further > than Barbara Dixon's very excellent site at: > http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/births.htm > and follow the link to 'marriage certificates'. > I fear that if you are used to Australian Cert's you will be very > disappointed in UK ones, especially death... Sometimes I thing they'll be > the death of me. > Kevin, Biggin-on-the-Bump, Kent, England > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Richards" <ricko_15@hotmail.com> > To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 9:35 AM > Subject: [BKM] Birth Date > > > > Hi Everybody, > > > > I recently purchased a Marriage Certificate of William Butcher and Mary > > Fletcher who were married in the Church in Padbury in Buckinghamshire on > > 24 February 1842. > > > > Mary's age was shown as 21. Could some kind person please be able to find > > out for me, if possible, her date of birth. Her fathers name was Joseph > > and if possible i would like to know her mothers name. > > > > Where in Buckinghamshire is Padbury please? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Alan > > Australia > > > > > > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > > Please do not post long surname lists. Dave Carlsen looks after the Bucks > > surname list, which is the proper place for such postings. Go to: > > http://webpages.charter.net/dcarlsen/genuki/BKM/bucksurname.html > > > > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > Your signature should be no more than 3 lines long and should not include surname interests which are outside the scope of this List. > >

Hi Everybody, Once again you people have come to my aid. I posted a query on the birthdate of Mary Fletcher and received replies from Rosemary, Dianne, Paul, Jenny, Jean, Kevin and Gillian, all of whom i have thanked personally. Being in Australia makes it a little more difficult to find out this information, but i am learning as i go. Merry Christmas to you all Alan Australia

In my family I have 3 generations of Elmes who worked on the Great Western Railway. William who was a policeman in 1841 (died 1845 age 45), Alfred who was a plate layer in 1881 and William who was an train driver in the 1910's (died in 1917 of pneumonia after having been stuck in a snow storm while working as a train driver). As yet I do not have information from the 1861, 1871 and 1891 records to find out what Alfred was doing in these years. Does anyone know how I could get more information on their working lives? Are records kept somewhere of GWR employees? Thanks, Andrew