Many thanks for the replies, all I really remember is that the service was conducted by a man with dried up egg yolk on his surplice. I think I was in a state of shock. Best wishes, John

Have a look at: http://www.countyviews.com/bucks/chpages/highwycombe3.html Kevin -----Original Message----- From: John Gurney [mailto:john.gurney2@virgin.net] Sent: Saturday, 19 March 2005 7:14 PM To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BKM] Trinity Congregational Church High Wycombe Hello list Please could someone tell me if this church exist today please? It was near to The Coach & Horses in (Eastern St.?) in 1959 So far I have drawn a blank using Google I need its denomination because I do not understand what "Congrelationalist" means With my thanks, John ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== Please do not post long surname lists.  Dave Carlsen looks after the Bucks surname list, which is the proper place for such postings.  Go to: http://webpages.charter.net/dcarlsen/genuki/BKM/bucksurname.html ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== To view recent downloadable photos of Bucks churches and village scenes, courtesy of Peter and Kevin Quick, visit: http://www.countyviews.com

Dawn wrote:- > There is a denomination called Congregational. Or was. Most went into > the union with the Methodists and Presbyterians - that union is now > called the Uniting Church in Australia if not world wide. > > In England they would have been one of the non-conformist churches I > think. In England it's called the United Reform Church. Mike

Hello list Please could someone tell me if this church exist today please? It was near to The Coach & Horses in (Eastern St.?) in 1959 So far I have drawn a blank using Google I need its denomination because I do not understand what "Congrelationalist" means With my thanks, John

>None of Roberts descendants benefited from Benjamins will, although a >fair proportion of his estate had been left to him by Robert, & he'd >been entrusted with the upbringing of the boys & the support of Roberts >widow. Sounds very close to the case I mentioned. Grandfather was a rich man, but, not approving of the family he deceased eldest son had married into, he left most of his estate in the hands of two friends and trustees, who snaffled the lot. Thos fiddle was a way of getting at least the inheritance from the maternal side back for the grandson (whose descendants never looked back). >I wonder what happened to the assets supposed to be inherited by >the boys when they reached 21? As far as I can see Benjamin kept it all. >He was described as "Gent." at his death, although the family had never >been more than "Yeoman" before, as far as I've found. Buying social >advancement with his nephews stolen inheritance? sopunds likely. There wasa lot of it about. > >>And one local schoolmaster, 1810ish, was responsible for a very >>complicated legal fiddle/scheme which regained the ownership for a >>friend and cousin of his of a property which had been legally and >>properly sold by his maternal aunt when he was a small boy. >> >> > > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

If onlly my ancestor William Eeles & his older brothers had had his advice in 1811, when their father Robert died, leaving several hundred pounds in cash plus land, houses, a butchers business, cattle, crops, a dairy, etc, in Oakley & Waddesdon. William & his two older brothers ended up poor (last news I have of William was in Winslow workhouse in 1851), while his fathers older brother Benjamin, executor of the will, died in 1831 apparently in possession of the lot. Left a family trust which kept paying out until the 1960s, & was wound up at the beginning of the 1980s & the assets distributed (£30-something per head) when there were too few assets left for the solicitors administering it to profit from flogging them off to pay their fees (they'd had all the income for many years previously). Note to makers of wills: never, ever, set up a complicated family trust with multiple conditional beneficiaries. The lawyers will take all the money. None of Roberts descendants benefited from Benjamins will, although a fair proportion of his estate had been left to him by Robert, & he'd been entrusted with the upbringing of the boys & the support of Roberts widow. I wonder what happened to the assets supposed to be inherited by the boys when they reached 21? As far as I can see Benjamin kept it all. He was described as "Gent." at his death, although the family had never been more than "Yeoman" before, as far as I've found. Buying social advancement with his nephews stolen inheritance? Paul Eve McLaughlin wrote: >And one local schoolmaster, 1810ish, was responsible for a very >complicated legal fiddle/scheme which regained the ownership for a >friend and cousin of his of a property which had been legally and >properly sold by his maternal aunt when he was a small boy. > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 15/03/05

Many thanks for the list of early Bucks students to New Coll. I believe that medieval schools (cathedral, church, chantry, guild, grammar etc) taught until about the age of 14, by which time those who wished to apply for University were likely to achieve the minimum standard of Latin to gain entrance. So I suspect that Winchester and the RLS were teaching the same age of children - the difference (I think) is that the pupil fees at Winchester were paid by an endowment. > >Could they have received a preliminary schooling at the Royal Latin School >before going on to Winchester, do you think, or did the school only take pupils >from the same age as Winchester? > -- Paul Poornan

I'm the guilty party behind the transcription of Wing (plus Ascott, Burcott, Crafton, Littleworth, and Wingberry) that Paul referred to. This has just been uploaded to my website: http://www.wychwood.gen.nz/family/wing/index.html This link takes you to the page I have set up with Wing resources (small but growing whenever I find the time!), and there is a link to the 1841 transcription there. If you are a Wing researcher, I'd love to hear from you. Eve, you can email me direct if you want any more details for your master list. Regards Alex in Auckland NZ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

<<Continuing this theme: in 14th century Winslow (1327-77), fathers regularly paid the lord of the manor (Abbot of St Albans) for permission to send their sons to clerical school (the usual expression is ad scholas clericales, but in some cases it's just ad literaturam, and in one the son is specifically prohibited from joining the clergy). Some of these sons later returned to live in Winslow without taking holy orders, some turn up again as chaplains who were presumably serving elsewhere but had to come back to claim and sell an inheritance, and some just disappear from the Winslow records. I've assumed that the sons were sent off to St Albans for their education, as it's too early for any of the North Bucks schools, but I wonder if anyone has any other suggestions, and if there's any significance in the use of the plural scholas. The ones who came back to live in Winslow were presumably equipped to act as the sort of low-level pseudo-lawyers to whom Matt referred.>> This is very interesting, David - you're right, these are exactly the kind of people I think sometimes scraped an income by legal work. May I quote you in my article? There has been some recent work on this clerical underclass, by people like Robert Swanson at Birmingham (who has written about the peasant chaplains of Alrewas in Staffordshire Studies) and Margaret Harvey, who gave a talk about the poor unbeneficed clerks of 15C Durham at the Fifteenth Century Conference last year. Swanson shows how some minor clerics from peasant backgrounds who couldn't get a living retained the peasant holdings they inherited, and may even have farmed them personally. I think I have one such in Great Horwood, a William Gilmot als Taylor, who leads a fairly typical existence as a middling peasant between 1401 and 1422, but from 1422 until 1439 is permanently absent from the manor, and throughout that period is always referred to as a chaplain (he seems to have re-appeared in the village in 1440, but was still called chaplain, or once just clerk). He came from a family slightly better off than most of its neighbours, who presumably could afford him an education, but weren't influential enough to get him even a chaplaincy until he was well into middle age. The odd thing is that when he died in 1458 his holding was inherited by his daughter. Either he had had a wife, who must have died before he took up the chaplaincy, or I am conflating two different men of the same name! I have no idea where his chaplaincy was - if anyone comes across a reference to a chaplain of this name, from the 1420s and 1430s, I should like very much to know about it. Matt

>some just disappear from the Winslow records. I've assumed that the sons >were sent off to St Albans for their education, St Albans seems likely, though you might get a high flier attending Cambridge (one in the very early 1500s from Haddenham, similar yeoman's grandson, with a father who was man of business to the Wartons of Winchendon, entirley without apparent training, just natural talent/deviousness. > as it's too early for >any of the North Bucks schools, but I wonder if anyone has any other >suggestions, and if there's any significance in the use of the plural >scholas. I have always assumed that this refers to classes running in parallel, of (say) musical education plus academic education + theological education. Rather as you say 'at his lessons' rather than at his lesson, or studies, not study. One thing you do notice in studying slightly later manorial/local records is that certain families retained a grip on the low level legal affairs of the village. For instance, the Brangwins in Haddenmham were the writers of wills through several generations, and hired themselves out to do the same for other places, within (so far) a ten mile radius. And one local schoolmaster, 1810ish, was responsible for a very complicated legal fiddle/scheme which regained the ownership for a friend and cousin of his of a property which had been legally and properly sold by his maternal aunt when he was a small boy. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

<<I only found 4 Buckingham entrants to New College: Simon Lambert (1499, aged12), Robert Chalner (1507), Thomas Duke (1509). [William Lambert (1558)].>> New College Archives have a massive manuscript Register of the Wardens, Fellows and Scholars of the College, prepared by Warden Sewell in the 19th century. It lists, and provides brief career details of, everyone mentioned in the College records from its foundation until 1850. It is in chronological order, but is indexed by surname (only). I once went through it noting people with a connection to Bucks, but only up to 1500 (and I certainly will have missed some before that date - the handwriting gets a bit spidery at times, and I was really only looking for Great Horwood connections). Only three were stated to be from Buckingham - they were: Thomas Dale, entered Winchester College 1457, New College c1454-74 (1473 became Rector of Tingewick, died there 1473) John Whitwey, New Coll 1493-97 Edmund Pyke (Peke), New Coll 1497-1500, Fellow of Win Coll 1505. The odd thing about Pyke is that the register says he was a son of a Great Horwood tenant (it was relevant because it gave him an entitlement to attend the school and the college). In fact no Pyke (or Peke) was a tenant there at any time in either the 15th or the 16th century, but there was a family called Pixy, often spelled Pyxe, so perhaps Warden Sewell misread the entry. Anyway, the fact that he is recorded as being the son of a GH tenant yet from Buckingham made me wonder whether he went to New College from the Royal Latin School. It's noteworthy that he didn't go there from Winchester College. A list of the Wardens, Fellows and Scholars of Winchester College was published in 1888 by a Thomas Kirby. It is indexed by surname, but not for places. I once went through it noting people who had come from Great Horwood, Buckingham, Chalfont St Peter or nearby places up to 1625 (this time I didn't try to catch people from the whole of the county). The scholars stated to be from Buckingham were: Richard More, Buckingham, 1404-07 Thomas Dale, 1457, later career as above Thomas Ashewode, 1471 Edmund Pyke, 1495 (age 14), as above Simon Lambert, 1499, age 12, went on to New Coll (Fellow there 1508-9) Robert Chawner, 1501 (age 11), went on to New Coll (later a barrister) Thomas Duke, 1504 (age 11), went on to New Coll (Fellow there 1511-13, died 1513) Thomas Holcam, 1509 (age 10), went on to New Coll (Fellow there 1518-19, beneficed) William Tyle, 1510 (age 11), went on to New Coll (Fellow there 1524) Giles Rede, 1511 (age 10), went on to New Coll (later a barrister) George Boston, 1546 (age 12), went on to New Coll william Lambard, 1551 (age 12), went on to New Coll (Fellow there 1560-74, Vicar of Hornchurch) Matthew Nicholls, 1601 (age 12), went on to New Coll (Fellow there 1608-20, died 1631) Francis Lambart, 1603 (age 11), went on to New Coll There was also a Fellow of Winchester College from Buckingham: William Tyle, BA, admitted as a Fellow 1524 Could they have received a preliminary schooling at the Royal Latin School before going on to Winchester, do you think, or did the school only take pupils from the same age as Winchester? <<New College founded by Wm Wykeham in 1379 (Prebendary of Buckingham in 1365), owner of Radclive in 1365 - there is some evidence that Wykeham purchased lands to aid scholars to attend grammar schools. See AF Leach (1969) Schools of medieval England, p201-210.>> Thank you for that reference - I shall look it up. I notice he also wrote a History of Winchester College, which I shall also look at while I am there. Matt

Continuing this theme: in 14th century Winslow (1327-77), fathers regularly paid the lord of the manor (Abbot of St Albans) for permission to send their sons to clerical school (the usual expression is ad scholas clericales, but in some cases it's just ad literaturam, and in one the son is specifically prohibited from joining the clergy). Some of these sons later returned to live in Winslow without taking holy orders, some turn up again as chaplains who were presumably serving elsewhere but had to come back to claim and sell an inheritance, and some just disappear from the Winslow records. I've assumed that the sons were sent off to St Albans for their education, as it's too early for any of the North Bucks schools, but I wonder if anyone has any other suggestions, and if there's any significance in the use of the plural scholas. The ones who came back to live in Winslow were presumably equipped to act as the sort of low-level pseudo-lawyers to whom Matt referred. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr David Noy Lecturer (currently on sabbatical) Department of Classics University of Wales Lampeter U.K. d.noy@lamp.ac.uk www.lamp.ac.uk/~noy

Thanks Paul Inevitably disappointing that pupil lists don't survive but you've saved me a search for something that doesn't exist! Is the list of scattered names you mention included in your book? Celia Renshaw In Chesterfield UK -----Original Message----- From: Paul [mailto:Bucks@dustyoldbooks.demon.co.uk] Sent: 18 March 2005 11:37 To: Celia Renshaw Cc: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BKM] Henry COLYER, Richard COLYER, 15th, early 16th century Almost no records of past pupils at all. I have compiled a list of names from scattered records, the earliest of which date from 1839. There is a register covering a few years from 1910. >Also a relative >Ambrose NELSON was, I believe, a music teacher there later, it would be >great to know more about him. He was a teacher there in c1890, as mentioned in a school music programme. No other information has been found about him. > >If these records exist, are they at the Centre for Bucks Studies? > >Now I know about your book I will get a copy, but hope you won't mind giving >a little info now. > >Thanks >Celia Renshaw >In Chesterfield UK > > -- Paul Poornan, Author of 'The Royal Latin School, Buckingham'.

> >And I suspect him of being a kind of lawyer himself. I am presently writing an >article about evidence for 15th century peasants having used lawyers to do >their >conveyancing. Clearly peasants could not afford lawyers of sort we know about, >trained at the Inns of Court or the universities and working in the Westminster >courts, but I argue that there were other, more shadowy figures who seldom >appear in the records - local men, poor priests, wealthy yeomen, with just a >smattering of knowledge and a little Latin, for whom legal work was just one of >several activities by which they made a living. Interesting - makes sense. >I have long suspected that other Great Horwood men who made good in the 15th >and >16th centuries did so via the Royal Latin School. Theoretically, because the >manor of Great Horwood was owned by New College in Oxford, sons of the tenants >there ought to have been eligible to go to Winchester School and then on to New >College, but in fact this seems to have been a rare event, and I think the >Buckingham school may have been a more common route to an education. I only found 4 Buckingham entrants to New College: Simon Lambert (1499, aged12), Robert Chalner (1507), Thomas Duke (1509). [William Lambert (1558)]. New College founded by Wm Wykeham in 1379 (Prebendary of Buckingham in 1365), owner of Radclive in 1365 - there is some evidence that Wykeham purchased lands to aid scholars to attend grammar schools. See AF Leach (1969) Schools of medieval England, p201-210. > >Certainly Henry Colyer didn't go to Winchester or New College, so I think he >probably got his legal education at the Inns of Court in London. I believe >some >of their early rolls have been published - I should have a look in them. > >I hadn't heard of the Thornton chantry school - would that also be mentioned in >your book? I shall get our library to borrow it for me. > >Thanks again, > >Matt > > >==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== >View or download up to 20000 archive photos of Buckinghamshire from the Bucks >County Council web site at: http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/photo_database > -- Paul Poornan, Author of 'The Royal Latin School, Buckingham'.

In message , Celia Renshaw <celia@valinor.force9.co.uk> writes >Hi Paul > >Slightly off Matt's topic but seeing your signature line, I wonder if you >can tell me if there is any surviving information about pupils of the Royal >Latin School who would have attended in late 18th century? Almost no records of past pupils at all. I have compiled a list of names from scattered records, the earliest of which date from 1839. There is a register covering a few years from 1910. >Also a relative >Ambrose NELSON was, I believe, a music teacher there later, it would be >great to know more about him. He was a teacher there in c1890, as mentioned in a school music programme. No other information has been found about him. > >If these records exist, are they at the Centre for Bucks Studies? > >Now I know about your book I will get a copy, but hope you won't mind giving >a little info now. > >Thanks >Celia Renshaw >In Chesterfield UK > > -- Paul Poornan, Author of 'The Royal Latin School, Buckingham'.

snip interesting stuff > >I hadn't heard of the Thornton chantry school - would that also be mentioned in >your book? I shall get our library to borrow it for me. You should buy it, Matt - it is an excellent book -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

It's fascinating stuff - thanks for posting it to list and not keeping it a private conversation! Celia In Chesterfield UK -----Original Message----- From: Tompkins, M.L. [mailto:mllt1@leicester.ac.uk] Sent: 18 March 2005 10:41 To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [BKM] Henry COLYER, Richard COLYER, 15th, early 16th century Hello Paul, thank you so much for that - it's exactly the kind of informed answer I was hoping for. Yes, it is surprising to see a husbandman's son rising so fast (it took the Pastons a generation or two longer!). But although William Colyer (probably born 1400-10, not in Great Horwood; died in or after 1477) was a husbandman, I think he was also something more than that. He seems to have been something of an entrepreneur: he first appeared in the Great Horwood records farming just half a yardland (18 acres), but over the next forty years built up a larger estate. He not only tripled his landholding, but also built up a portfolio of 5 messuages and cottages in addition to his own residence (partly by buying reversions from old widows, giving them the money to keep them in their old age and him the property after they died). The money which funded this empire-building must have come from other activities than just farming. In 1447 he acquired one of the village's two mills (horse-mills) and ran it until shortly before his death, and between 1464 and 1475 he leased the ! right to collect the tithes in the neighbouring hamlet of Singleborough. And I suspect him of being a kind of lawyer himself. I am presently writing an article about evidence for 15th century peasants having used lawyers to do their conveyancing. Clearly peasants could not afford lawyers of sort we know about, trained at the Inns of Court or the universities and working in the Westminster courts, but I argue that there were other, more shadowy figures who seldom appear in the records - local men, poor priests, wealthy yeomen, with just a smattering of knowledge and a little Latin, for whom legal work was just one of several activities by which they made a living. I think William Colyer may have been such a man. He appears once in the records of the Great Horwood manor court as attorney for a cordwainer who brought a suit against a Great Horwood resident. And I was surprised to come across a reference to him in the court rolls of the manor of Temple Bulstrode (in Hedgerley, in the far south of the county) - a presentment that "William Colyer ! of Horwood in co. Bucks husbandman on 10 Nov 1456 by force and arms, that is swords, arrows, bows, entered the house of Robert Fulmer and then and there feloniously took and carried away the said Robert's goods to the value of 40s against the king's peace". Of course, it may be that he was funding his buying spree in Great Horwood with the proceeds of armed robbery in distant parts, but I think it more likely that the presentment represents the locals' spin on a bit of muscular but legal debt collecting, perhaps on behalf of a client. His son Henry's career as a proper Westminster lawyer seems a bit less surprising if the father was already involved in the legal world - perhaps Henry's sponsor was one of William's contacts higher up the food-chain. Or perhaps, as you say, it was one of the John Bartons - I hadn't thought of them, but they were both successively steward of the manor of Great Horwood in the 1420s and 1430s (William Colyer arrived in the manor in 1433 - maybe his advocacy before them on behalf of the cordwainer impressed them!). I'd like to know more about the Bartons - would your book on the Royal Latin School be the place to find that? I have long suspected that other Great Horwood men who made good in the 15th and 16th centuries did so via the Royal Latin School. Theoretically, because the manor of Great Horwood was owned by New College in Oxford, sons of the tenants there ought to have been eligible to go to Winchester School and then on to New College, but in fact this seems to have been a rare event, and I think the Buckingham school may have been a more common route to an education. Certainly Henry Colyer didn't go to Winchester or New College, so I think he probably got his legal education at the Inns of Court in London. I believe some of their early rolls have been published - I should have a look in them. I hadn't heard of the Thornton chantry school - would that also be mentioned in your book? I shall get our library to borrow it for me. Thanks again, Matt ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== View or download up to 20000 archive photos of Buckinghamshire from the Bucks County Council web site at: http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/photo_database

>The first to leave Great Horwood was HENRY COLYER, probably born around 1430-40, >died 1501. Though his father William had begun as a mere peasant husbandman, >Henry somehow acquired a legal education and became a lawyer. By the time he >died he owned land in Buckingham, Tingewick, Padbury and Brackley as well as >Great Horwood, and appears in one record as a gentleman (said to be of Hogshaw, >though he doesn't seem to have owned any land there). <<Just some background: it seems odd that the son of a husbandman became a lawyer. One thinks of education, sponsors, etc. In terms of schools, there were chantry schools at Buckingham and Thornton which date from c1423 and 1468 respectively. No records exist, but both chantry schools were founded/refounded by the Bartons. The father (William) and two sons (both called John) lived at Buckingham, Foxcote and Thornborough, and owned lands all over this area. William was the coroner, and the Johns were lawyers to the gentry / Bishops / Mercers all over England. Some rental records (tenants payments) for John Barton survive in BM Lansdowne Charters. I cannot find Henry COLYER in the shortened version of Oxonia Aluminensis (1900).>> Hello Paul, thank you so much for that - it's exactly the kind of informed answer I was hoping for. Yes, it is surprising to see a husbandman's son rising so fast (it took the Pastons a generation or two longer!). But although William Colyer (probably born 1400-10, not in Great Horwood; died in or after 1477) was a husbandman, I think he was also something more than that. He seems to have been something of an entrepreneur: he first appeared in the Great Horwood records farming just half a yardland (18 acres), but over the next forty years built up a larger estate. He not only tripled his landholding, but also built up a portfolio of 5 messuages and cottages in addition to his own residence (partly by buying reversions from old widows, giving them the money to keep them in their old age and him the property after they died). The money which funded this empire-building must have come from other activities than just farming. In 1447 he acquired one of the village's two mills (horse-mills) and ran it until shortly before his death, and between 1464 and 1475 he leased the ! right to collect the tithes in the neighbouring hamlet of Singleborough. And I suspect him of being a kind of lawyer himself. I am presently writing an article about evidence for 15th century peasants having used lawyers to do their conveyancing. Clearly peasants could not afford lawyers of sort we know about, trained at the Inns of Court or the universities and working in the Westminster courts, but I argue that there were other, more shadowy figures who seldom appear in the records - local men, poor priests, wealthy yeomen, with just a smattering of knowledge and a little Latin, for whom legal work was just one of several activities by which they made a living. I think William Colyer may have been such a man. He appears once in the records of the Great Horwood manor court as attorney for a cordwainer who brought a suit against a Great Horwood resident. And I was surprised to come across a reference to him in the court rolls of the manor of Temple Bulstrode (in Hedgerley, in the far south of the county) - a presentment that "William Colyer ! of Horwood in co. Bucks husbandman on 10 Nov 1456 by force and arms, that is swords, arrows, bows, entered the house of Robert Fulmer and then and there feloniously took and carried away the said Robert's goods to the value of 40s against the king's peace". Of course, it may be that he was funding his buying spree in Great Horwood with the proceeds of armed robbery in distant parts, but I think it more likely that the presentment represents the locals' spin on a bit of muscular but legal debt collecting, perhaps on behalf of a client. His son Henry's career as a proper Westminster lawyer seems a bit less surprising if the father was already involved in the legal world - perhaps Henry's sponsor was one of William's contacts higher up the food-chain. Or perhaps, as you say, it was one of the John Bartons - I hadn't thought of them, but they were both successively steward of the manor of Great Horwood in the 1420s and 1430s (William Colyer arrived in the manor in 1433 - maybe his advocacy before them on behalf of the cordwainer impressed them!). I'd like to know more about the Bartons - would your book on the Royal Latin School be the place to find that? I have long suspected that other Great Horwood men who made good in the 15th and 16th centuries did so via the Royal Latin School. Theoretically, because the manor of Great Horwood was owned by New College in Oxford, sons of the tenants there ought to have been eligible to go to Winchester School and then on to New College, but in fact this seems to have been a rare event, and I think the Buckingham school may have been a more common route to an education. Certainly Henry Colyer didn't go to Winchester or New College, so I think he probably got his legal education at the Inns of Court in London. I believe some of their early rolls have been published - I should have a look in them. I hadn't heard of the Thornton chantry school - would that also be mentioned in your book? I shall get our library to borrow it for me. Thanks again, Matt

Hi Paul Slightly off Matt's topic but seeing your signature line, I wonder if you can tell me if there is any surviving information about pupils of the Royal Latin School who would have attended in late 18th century? Also a relative Ambrose NELSON was, I believe, a music teacher there later, it would be great to know more about him. If these records exist, are they at the Centre for Bucks Studies? Now I know about your book I will get a copy, but hope you won't mind giving a little info now. Thanks Celia Renshaw In Chesterfield UK -----Original Message----- From: Paul [mailto:Bucks@dustyoldbooks.demon.co.uk] Sent: 18 March 2005 08:06 To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BKM] Henry COLYER, Richard COLYER, 15th, early 16th century >The first to leave Great Horwood was HENRY COLYER, probably born around 1430-40, >died 1501. Though his father William had begun as a mere peasant husbandman, >Henry somehow acquired a legal education and became a lawyer. By the time he >died he owned land in Buckingham, Tingewick, Padbury and Brackley as well as >Great Horwood, and appears in one record as a gentleman (said to be of Hogshaw, >though he doesn't seem to have owned any land there). Hi Matt, Just some background: it seems odd that the son of a husbandman became a lawyer. One thinks of education, sponsors, etc. In terms of schools, there were chantry schools at Buckingham and Thornton which date from c1423 and 1468 respectively. No records exist, but both chantry schools were founded/refounded by the Bartons. The father (William) and two sons (both called John) lived at Buckingham, Foxcote and Thornborough, and owned lands all over this area. William was the coroner, and the Johns were lawyers to the gentry / Bishops / Mercers all over England. Some rental records (tenants payments) for John Barton survive in BM Lansdowne Charters. I cannot find Henry COLYER in the shortened version of Oxonia Aluminensis (1900). Paul. -- Paul Poornan, Author of 'The Royal Latin School, Buckingham'. ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== BGS Website: http://www.bucksgs.org.uk/ BFHS Website: http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/ Bucks Genuki Website: http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/

>The first to leave Great Horwood was HENRY COLYER, probably born around 1430-40, >died 1501. Though his father William had begun as a mere peasant husbandman, >Henry somehow acquired a legal education and became a lawyer. By the time he >died he owned land in Buckingham, Tingewick, Padbury and Brackley as well as >Great Horwood, and appears in one record as a gentleman (said to be of Hogshaw, >though he doesn't seem to have owned any land there). Hi Matt, Just some background: it seems odd that the son of a husbandman became a lawyer. One thinks of education, sponsors, etc. In terms of schools, there were chantry schools at Buckingham and Thornton which date from c1423 and 1468 respectively. No records exist, but both chantry schools were founded/refounded by the Bartons. The father (William) and two sons (both called John) lived at Buckingham, Foxcote and Thornborough, and owned lands all over this area. William was the coroner, and the Johns were lawyers to the gentry / Bishops / Mercers all over England. Some rental records (tenants payments) for John Barton survive in BM Lansdowne Charters. I cannot find Henry COLYER in the shortened version of Oxonia Aluminensis (1900). Paul. -- Paul Poornan, Author of 'The Royal Latin School, Buckingham'.