Worth looking for records of property transactions, as well. Try www.a2a.org.uk, & search the records of the Centre for Buckinghamshire Records. There's a Hawes of Princes Risborough entry dated 1466 . . . Also www.nationalarchives.gov.uk - wills, court cases, etc. Eve McLaughlin wrote: >In message <BAY101-F38B53AAD84AA58B1058044BD4D0@phx.gbl>, Robert Hawes ><rdhawes48@hotmail.com> writes > > >>My family immigrated from Buckinghamshire, England to Dorchester, >>Massachuttes, USA aboard the ship "Truelove", out of London, in abt. 1630. >>His wife was Ann; and they had a daughter, Anne, and a son Obadiah, both >>born in England. >>My immigrant was Richard Hawes, b. 1580 in Great Missenden, Bucks, England. >>He was christened in "Prince, Risborough". His father was Benett Hawes, and >>his father was Richard Hawes, and his father was Thomas Hawes, b. Abt. 1507, >>Allscott, Risborough and d. Abt. 27 May 1554. >> >> >The date of 1507 sounds like a guess, since there are no parish >registers then and normally very few indications of any age. The >generations seem to be a little 'short', allowing shortish probable time >elapses for 4 generations. (not impossible, but I would be wary). > This is in most cases a family of some property, so wills should >certainly be able to make the links which the registers do not. > > > >>Are Great Missenden, Allscott and Prince Risborough all "villages" in the >>same town? >> >> >Great Missenden is a village on the road from Aylesbury to Amersham. >Allscott is a hamlet in Princes Risborough whicvh is a small town about >5=6 miles west of Missenden, and on the road from Aylesbury to High >Wycombe. It is puzzling that someone born in Missenden should be >baptised in Risborough - it would be abnormal for that period. I think >you may be looking at two different persons. > > > >>Also, do we understand correctly that "Bucks", "Buckingham", and >>"Buckinghamshire", are all the same location? >> >> >Buckinghamshire is the county, abbreviated to Bucks. Buckingham is a >town in the north of the county, and LDS have wroingly used Buckingham >to indicate the county, which is not helpful. > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 21/03/05

Hi Gill I used to live where you are talking about - first in Swan Terrace (down from the back of the old Swan Hotel that used to be on High Street) the on the corner of Russell Street/Vicarage Walk. My great-aunt Connie lived on New Street for many years. My mum lodged in "The Gardens" when she was first married and dad was stationed abroad after WW2. They are no longer there but your description of how they were accessed seems right. I have an old map (1901) of the area if that helps, can send a jpg of where "the Gardens" were - and my mum and stepdad will be delighted to explain the layout in more detail you need it! Both their families lived for many years in Vicarage Walk. Do you need to know about anywhere else in Stony? Best wishes Celia Renshaw -----Original Message----- From: Gill Smith [mailto:gillster@interhop.net] Sent: 22 March 2005 15:28 To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BKM] Re: (BKM) 1891 Occupaton Thanks to Al, William and Diane for the answer I should have thought of for myself ! In regard to the address, that was on an earlier census and I think that the enumerator started on New Street and left that on the page when he went across the road. I have actually been there and found the place and it is closer to being across from the Swan Yard. The Gardens actually back onto a lane that becomes Vicarage Walk but are accessed from Russell Street. I shall eliminate New Street from my address, Gill Smith Haliburton, Ontario. ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== To view recent downloadable photos of Bucks churches and village scenes, courtesy of Peter and Kevin Quick, visit: http://www.countyviews.com

Hello everyone, this is my third posting asking about people who owned land in Great Horwood between 1400 and 1600 but didn't live there. This time I am hoping that someone will know something about a north Bucks family called COWLEY, or sometimes COVERLEY. Several men of this family, mostly lawyers, were associated with the Colyer family about whom I posted last week. The first was a JOHN COWLEY, who between 1471 and his death in 1486 was the absentee owner of 2 messuages and 2 yardlands (one of them freehold) in Great Horwood. At his death he left them to Henry Colyer the elder, whose wife Margaret was probably related to him (perhaps even was his daughter). He may be the John Cowley of Quainton whose will was proved in the PCC in 1486, but I haven't looked at that will yet. Thereafter, between 1500 and 1530, the Cowleys appear in the Great Horwood records only as trustees and guardians of the Colyer family. One was THOMAS COWLEY, who in 1502-1504 was a trustee of Henry Colyer the elder's will, executor of his wife Margaret's will (in which she refers to Thomas as her cousin) and guardian of their children. He was a clerk and a Master of the Court of Chancery. His will, which was proved in the PCC in 1510, is mostly concerned with the Colyer family's affairs and does not give much personal information, but it does mention property in Pightesley and Coryscombe (which the calendar says are in Northants and Dorset) so for him, as for many of these families I am posting about, the law seems to have been the route to wealth and position. Also mentioned briefly in records from 1500-1510 are Alexander Cowley (a brother of the lawyer Thomas), William Cowley, gent and John Cowley, clerk. The last to appear is RICHARD COWLEY, who was trustee of several Colyer properties in Great Horwood in the 1520s - I suspect he was the Richard Cowley who was assessed in the 1522 Muster Roll on £10 worth of goods in Preston Bisset (which parish includes the hamlet of Cowley, from where the family presumably took its name). As always I hope that someone may be able to point me towards information about these Cowleys in the world outside Great Horwood. Ideally information about their social and economic standing and activities, but purely genealogical data will also be received gratefully. And of course if they are anyone's ancestors then I'll be happy to supply what information I have about their history in Great Horwood in return (in fact generally I can do this for anyone whose ancestors lived in Great Horwood before 1600). Thanks very much, Matt Tompkins Centre for English Local History University of Leicester 5 Salisbury Road Leicester LE1 7QR

Hi Gill He has a 'General Dealers Shop' Regards,William wgra0331@bigpond.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Smith" <gillster@interhop.net> To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:23 AM Subject: [BKM] 1891 Occupation > > In 1891 he is in the same house and is listed under occupation as "General Dralen shop" The writing is relatively easy to read and I cannot make anything else out of what is written. ---------------------------------------snipped a heap-----------------------------

Thanks to Al, William and Diane for the answer I should have thought of for myself ! In regard to the address, that was on an earlier census and I think that the enumerator started on New Street and left that on the page when he went across the road. I have actually been there and found the place and it is closer to being across from the Swan Yard. The Gardens actually back onto a lane that becomes Vicarage Walk but are accessed from Russell Street. I shall eliminate New Street from my address, Gill Smith Haliburton, Ontario.

In message <BAY101-F38B53AAD84AA58B1058044BD4D0@phx.gbl>, Robert Hawes <rdhawes48@hotmail.com> writes >My family immigrated from Buckinghamshire, England to Dorchester, >Massachuttes, USA aboard the ship "Truelove", out of London, in abt. 1630. >His wife was Ann; and they had a daughter, Anne, and a son Obadiah, both >born in England. >My immigrant was Richard Hawes, b. 1580 in Great Missenden, Bucks, England. >He was christened in "Prince, Risborough". His father was Benett Hawes, and >his father was Richard Hawes, and his father was Thomas Hawes, b. Abt. 1507, >Allscott, Risborough and d. Abt. 27 May 1554. The date of 1507 sounds like a guess, since there are no parish registers then and normally very few indications of any age. The generations seem to be a little 'short', allowing shortish probable time elapses for 4 generations. (not impossible, but I would be wary). This is in most cases a family of some property, so wills should certainly be able to make the links which the registers do not. >Are Great Missenden, Allscott and Prince Risborough all "villages" in the >same town? Great Missenden is a village on the road from Aylesbury to Amersham. Allscott is a hamlet in Princes Risborough whicvh is a small town about 5=6 miles west of Missenden, and on the road from Aylesbury to High Wycombe. It is puzzling that someone born in Missenden should be baptised in Risborough - it would be abnormal for that period. I think you may be looking at two different persons. > > >Also, do we understand correctly that "Bucks", "Buckingham", and >"Buckinghamshire", are all the same location? Buckinghamshire is the county, abbreviated to Bucks. Buckingham is a town in the north of the county, and LDS have wroingly used Buckingham to indicate the county, which is not helpful. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

>affairs of the village. For instance, the Brangwins in Haddenmham were >the writers of wills through several generations, and hired themselves >out to do the same for other places, within (so far) a ten mile radius. >And one local schoolmaster, 1810ish, was responsible for a very >complicated legal fiddle/scheme which regained the ownership for a >friend and cousin of his of a property which had been legally and >properly sold by his maternal aunt when he was a small boy.>> > > >I once read somewhere that in the late 19th or early 20th century, when >barristers out on circuit at the provincial courts gathered for a convivial >professional dinner, one of the toasts was always 'To the village schoolmasters, >whose attempts to write wills bring us so much of our work! You couldn't fault a Brangwin will - they'd been at it for generations and could cope with any situation. The one which went astray was that drawn for himself by an 'utter barrister'. Or, for that matter, William Clarson Cox, who got his cousin 'back' family properties. It was the personal interest, i think... -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

In message <000a01c52c5b$c4862960$82406551@l5s6u0>, John Gurney <john.gurney2@virgin.net> writes >Hello list > >Please could someone tell me if this church exist today please? I think it is part of the car park - a local resident would know better. >I need its denomination It was Independent, which became Congregational, and much later United Reform. It won't help a lot, since post 1837 records of nonconformist chapels are usually hard to come by. It is easier to get the information from civil records plus census records. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

I wonder if someone on the list can figure this one out ? My 2 XG. Grandfather Caleb Savage was an agricultural labourer in Beachampton, then Passenham until the 1881 census where he has moved into Stony Stratford and is listed as a Grocer(s) Porter. He is living in "The Gardens", New Street, Stony Stratford East. In 1891 he is in the same house and is listed under occupation as "General Dralen shop" The writing is relatively easy to read and I cannot make anything else out of what is written. In 1901, he has moved to 130 High Street, Stony Stratford East and has a grocers shop. Any ideas as to what the 1891 occupation could be ? Gill Smith Haliburton, Ontario

Robert Hawes wrote: > My family immigrated from Buckinghamshire, England to Dorchester, > Massachuttes, USA aboard the ship "Truelove", out of London, in abt. > 1630. His wife was Ann; and they had a daughter, Anne, and a son > Obadiah, both born in England. > My immigrant was Richard Hawes, b. 1580 in Great Missenden, Bucks, > England. He was christened in "Prince, Risborough". His father was > Benett Hawes, and his father was Richard Hawes, and his father was > Thomas Hawes, b. Abt. 1507, Allscott, Risborough and d. Abt. 27 May 1554. > > Here is my question. Is there anyone doing any research on the "Hawes" > family from Buckingham? > > Are Great Missenden, Allscott and Prince Risborough all "villages" in > the same town? > No. Villages are separate settlements, not parts of a town. Great Missenden is a large village, Princes Risborough a small town, though no larger than some large villages. Alscott - try Alscot. If you look at www.genuki.org you'll find a great deal of genealogical & geographical information. http://met.open.ac.uk/genuki/big/eng/BKM/ is the Buckinghamshire part of the site. www.streetmap.co.uk will show you where places are. > > Also, do we understand correctly that "Bucks", "Buckingham", and > "Buckinghamshire", are all the same location? > Yes. Buckinghamshire is the name of the county. Bucks is the common abbreviation. Buckingham is the name of the town which the county is named for, & is also sometimes used for the county. > Would like to hear from anyone with suggestions. > > Teresa & Robert Hawes > New Hampshire, USA > > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > Please do not post long surname lists. Dave Carlsen looks after the > Bucks surname list, which is the proper place for such postings. Go to: > http://webpages.charter.net/dcarlsen/genuki/BKM/bucksurname.html > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 21/03/05

My family immigrated from Buckinghamshire, England to Dorchester, Massachuttes, USA aboard the ship "Truelove", out of London, in abt. 1630. His wife was Ann; and they had a daughter, Anne, and a son Obadiah, both born in England. My immigrant was Richard Hawes, b. 1580 in Great Missenden, Bucks, England. He was christened in "Prince, Risborough". His father was Benett Hawes, and his father was Richard Hawes, and his father was Thomas Hawes, b. Abt. 1507, Allscott, Risborough and d. Abt. 27 May 1554. Here is my question. Is there anyone doing any research on the "Hawes" family from Buckingham? Are Great Missenden, Allscott and Prince Risborough all "villages" in the same town? Also, do we understand correctly that "Bucks", "Buckingham", and "Buckinghamshire", are all the same location? Would like to hear from anyone with suggestions. Teresa & Robert Hawes New Hampshire, USA

Hi I am looking for details of a Frank FLEET. He was born in Whitchurch, Bucks in 1864. In the 1871 census he is living at "Little London" Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire with his father William born 1821 in Whitchurch and his mother Mary born 1830 Whitchurch... Does anyone else have this particular FLEET family in their tree....??? I would really like to know the names of any of his siblings (I am sure that there will be some!!) I am also wondering if this FLEET family can be connected to the rather large FLEET family of hardwick/Weedon??? Any help greatly received Many thanks Tezz _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Was away - SMITH, High Wycombe and PEARCE/PEARSE the same, who married a WHEELER from Exeter, settled in Flackwell Heath, paper-making trade. Al Dawson, Iowa City, Iowa - MA, History, UNC-Chapel Hill, 1973 Visit my website at: www.familytreemaker.com/users/d/a/w/Al--Dawson/ Ancestor Birthday: Hannah Leavitt, March 20, 1663/64, Hingham, MA. Source: Emily Leavitt Noyes, Descendants of John Leavitt the Immigrant (1956) Vol V p. 35.

Dear All Has anyone got the following in their tree please? Margaret Pym m.Fred Rockall Daughters Dolly and Lilian Lily Pym m Fred,Surname nk Daughter Joy Bessie Pym m.Gerald Crampton Son John Edith Pym married Fred Peel Bessie Pym m.Harry Smith Son Harry Albert Ernest Pym m.Hilda Miles 2 sons Albert H and Peter Pym children born Cookham,Slough and Eton Many Thanks Kate CHESTER

Progress has been good (over 800 names now, of about 1750), but there is one problem. HO107/39/14 (Waddesdon includes HO107/39/14 to 19) is very hard to read, due to faintness. My source is a CD with PDF files on it, & I have no way to enhance the images. I've found that printing the worst pages can enable me to read a little more, & I'm gathering clues by cross-checking against other sources, but even so, there are some names & a few jobs which I'm stuck on. Luckily, 14 is only about 10% of the village (the east end - Eythrope, Cranwell, Blackgrove), & the rest is pretty clear, so the total number of illegibles is small, maybe a couple of dozen with one or both names not transcribed at all (there are also some uncertain, with question marks against them). Now to the point: a few kind people have responded positively to my request for someone to check my output. You know who you are (thanks). Are any of you - or anyone else - equipped & willing to check HO107/39/14, knowing it's very faint & I've left some blanks? Paul -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/05

<<One thing you do notice in studying slightly later manorial/local records is that certain families retained a grip on the low level legal affairs of the village. For instance, the Brangwins in Haddenmham were the writers of wills through several generations, and hired themselves out to do the same for other places, within (so far) a ten mile radius. And one local schoolmaster, 1810ish, was responsible for a very complicated legal fiddle/scheme which regained the ownership for a friend and cousin of his of a property which had been legally and properly sold by his maternal aunt when he was a small boy.>> I once read somewhere that in the late 19th or early 20th century, when barristers out on circuit at the provincial courts gathered for a convivial professional dinner, one of the toasts was always 'To the village schoolmasters, whose attempts to write wills bring us so much of our work!' Matt

Many thanks for the replies about name variations, they were a great help especially eve who sent me a huge list to look through. Many thanks Mark

Hi John and List There is a denomination called Congregational. Or was. Most went into the union with the Methodists and Presbyterians - that union is now called the Uniting Church in Australia if not world wide. In England they would have been one of the non-conformist churches I think. Regards Dawn (Melbourne Australia) -----Original Message----- From: John Gurney [mailto:john.gurney2@virgin.net] Sent: Saturday, 19 March 2005 7:14 PM To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BKM] Trinity Congregational Church High Wycombe Hello list Please could someone tell me if this church exist today please? It was near to The Coach & Horses in (Eastern St.?) in 1959 So far I have drawn a blank using Google I need its denomination because I do not understand what "Congrelationalist" means With my thanks, John ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== Please do not post long surname lists. Dave Carlsen looks after the Bucks surname list, which is the proper place for such postings. Go to: http://webpages.charter.net/dcarlsen/genuki/BKM/bucksurname.html

Mark, There is a book First Name Variants by Alan Bardsley published by the FFHS. Have a look at their web site or any FHS web site and you should find someone to sell you a copy. Alternatively, you could do a Google search on the title. Phil Hales Owen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ware" <ware1973@tiscali.co.uk> To: <BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 17 March 2005 16:45 Subject: [BKM] Variations of Names > Does anybody know where I can find a listing of variations of the same > first name ie. Henry can mean Harry etc.? > > Many thanks > Mark > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send message to: > bucks-l-request@rootsweb.com or bucks-d-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' in the body of the message > >

I wonder if anyone going to the FRC in the near future could do me a big favour please? I am trying to find an old friend who's married name I cant recall. I know roughly when she married and the first name of her husband, but that's all. I do have a very genuine and rather urgent reason for contacting her and have tried electoral rolls but of course I only have her maiden name. I should point out that family history is very much involved here, so it is only slightly off topic. If anyone feels inclined I would appreciate it and contact off list I feel. thanks very much, Pennie