In message <000201c53c34$119301a0$0100a8c0@mums>, Kirsten Friis Holm Hawkes <kirstenh@iprimus.com.au> writes >Hmm this sounds truly GREAT! >But.. .a tad too far from Kariong NSW :-( If you sling a few things in a bag and start out NOW - you will make it. >Subject: [BKM] BGS FAMILY HISTORY FEAST Apr 23 > > >Make a note in your diaries of the one you cannot afford to miss. On April >23, we lay before you a FEAST of information, 1000 odd books pictorial, >historical and reference, from my own library, plus CDs, microfiches, etc >for everywhere in the British Isles and a few other areas too. The whole of >the Hartwell Day Centre is taken over by tables and tables of information; >we have a separate room for Bucks information, parish register transcripts, >censues, masses of books, many of >Snip > > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

In message <002801c53c3f$a1bf6b50$400cc2cb@ford>, Geoff Ford <dgford@dodo.com.au> writes >I agree, Eve. But in my example of interchanging of the terms I meant that >it was used more loosely than that. It has been used (with four baptisms) >as Gent, Esq, Esq, Gent and I don't think that it was the rank that yoyoed! >I believe that, in the eyes of the Curate, yes, that is probably it = few people knew the correct form, or much cared, as long as they labelled the local gent with an honorable description -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

My first call to list, Recently I made a discovery on IGI of Windsor and Winser of Soulbury from 1770 onwards. As a descendent of Richard and Elizabeth Windsor circa 1780, I was caught by the number of Winser family members in Soulbury at the same time. A brilliant thought came, "are they connected in some way ? " There is every possibility that work has already been undertaken on this very same question. I am twelve thousand miles away, how can I make friends with the good people of Soulbury to find the answer. An urgent need is to obtain details of All Souls parish registers 1780 - 1800. These registers must have numbers - London parish registers may be obtained on CD's. Does All Souls church, Soulbury, issue Cd's ? I must stop asking questions. Best regards to you all. Jim Windsor, NZ mainrd@clear.net.nz

Make a note in your diaries of the one you cannot afford to miss. On April 23, we lay before you a FEAST of information, 1000 odd books pictorial, historical and reference, from my own library, plus CDs, microfiches, etc for everywhere in the British Isles and a few other areas too. The whole of the Hartwell Day Centre is taken over by tables and tables of information; we have a separate room for Bucks information, parish register transcripts, censues, masses of books, many of them rare, worked pedigrees, and displays by local history groups, from Stone, Haddenham, Naphill and Walters Ash, Waddesdon and Wolverton (the railway town). There is a large room with other counties, again, masses of books and pictures, with a separate room for Scotland, Ireland and the north; plus information on computer and microform covering the whole UK (and a little for Australia, America etc). There are lots of new CDs, including all those issued with magazines in the last year or so, and our highly trained operators will help you get the item you want. There are also stalls where you can buy masses of books, old and new, guides, staitonery, software, postcards etc and even arrange for your own family history to be printed inexpensively. Oxford FHS huge range of microfiche and CDs will be on sale - and for those who have been waiting eagerly, our own BUCKS 1861 census CD will be unveiled. There are talks by Eve McLaughlin introducing the resources avaialbel, Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake on what is, and what is not, available on the net, and Julian Hunt on what County Archives can offer you. All day, expert advice will be on tap, helping you sort out your own knotty problems. There will be light refershments and somewhere to sit (in the sun, specially ordered) to have a chat with others - and you may discover new cousins on the day. The venue is the Hartwell Day Centre, Thame Rd South, on the west side of Aylesbury. Coming from the town, take the Oxford road (A418), past the rail bridge and the traffic lights, and turn left into a cul de sac at the first big roundabout, where the main road turns right and goes off to Oxford. From the est, at the second roundabout on the edge of town, go straight ahead instead of turning left, and you are there. Parking on site, in the LDS carpark next door and in the broad cul de sac. Members of BGS free, visitors £1. easy access for disabled to all rooms. Further details from me at 01844 291631 or e-mail eve@varneys.demon.co.uk. Map sent for SAE to Varneys, Rudds Lane, Haddenham, Bucks HP17 8JP. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

In St Mary's church Uxbridge there is a memorial tablet to a relative, Samuel A Hatch, who died in the First War. Is there anyone who could take a digital picture of this and send it to me? Donald Hatch, Bilthoven Netherlands ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Deze e-mail, inclusief eventuele bijlage(n), is uitsluitend bestemd voor gebruik door de geadresseerde(n). Indien u dit bericht abusievelijk heeft ontvangen, mag de informatie daarvan niet worden gebruikt of openbaar gemaakt, noch aan derden worden verstrekt. Wij verzoeken u om in dat geval direct contact op te nemen met de afzender en de e-mail te vernietigen. This e-mail, including any appendix or appendices, is intended solely for use by the addressee(s). If you have received this message in error, the information it contains may not be used or disclosed, nor may it be revealed to third parties. In that case, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the e-mail.

Those of "gentle" status were recognised as of rank superior to the "simple" folk. To be recognised as a "Gentleman" you HAD to be in possession of LAND --- and not just a paddock. And then that gentility was an automatic status that would be INHERITED by the descendants down through the ages! Owners of large chunks of land were recognised as knights, having "Sir" preceding their name, and could have various titles --- such as Baron, Lord, Earl, etc --- and were entitled to possess a Coat of Arms, a visual emblem of their gentility. Although the "nouveau riche" of the industrial era had loads of money and could buy large chunks of land they found it difficult to be recognised as a Gentleman by those who WERE gentle!! So, it all came down to breeding. If you were begatted by one of the "Gentles" then YOU would be a Gentle --- even if in earlier times you had to prefix your name with a "Fitz" to denote that you were conceived on the wrong side of the blanket! In my transcribing of Parish Records (Cornish) --- especially Baptisms' Registers --- I have frequently seen the terms "Gent" and "Esq" interchanged when referring to the same person. Therefore, they would appear to be synonymous when applied to one of the lower levels of Gentle rank. Geoff Ford Sydney NSW Transcriber 1851 Census Kea and 1851 Census Feock Cornwall Online Census Project http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~kayhin/ukocp.html OPC for Kea Parish Church

It has been checked & corrected, & now I'm just doing a couple of presentational bits. It should be ready for distribution in the next couple of days. I'll e-mail copies (322 Kb Excel spreadsheet, or available as a comma separated text file) to anyone who asks for it (off list, please - no point in cluttering up the list with requests) before then. It should appear on the internet soon. Notices will be posted. Paul -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 07/04/05

> >In my transcribing of Parish Records (Cornish) --- especially Baptisms' >Registers --- I have frequently seen the terms "Gent" and "Esq" interchanged >when referring to the same person. True, but there was a precise definition and a loose definition, and if the same man appears to have moved from Gent to Esq, it is possible his older brother had died in between. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

In message <262AB7B2-A63C-11D9-9CB8-00039362DB14@earthlink.net>, Sandy <teylu@earthlink.net> writes >Seeking some assistance with English "titles," specifically "Gentleman" >and "Esquire" in the 1600s. > >In the documents I'm viewing, a distinction does seem to exist between >the two titles, as some men are listed "Gentleman" whereas others are >listed "Esquire" both in documents of 1609 and again in 1615. Technically, the eldest son and heir was Algernon Bloggs, Esquire, the younger sons Tom, Dick and Harry Bloggs, Gentlemen. But given mortality rates, a younger son could become the oldest son later on. However, in practice, very few men were labelled with absolute precision anyway. A gentleman was a gentleman, whatever his position in the family. And it really did mean gentleman by birth at that date. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

In message <1a8.351fd292.2f855354@aol.com>, Microfish7@aol.com writes >Please excuse the ignorance of an American on the wrong side of the pond: is >the 1841 census for Bucks available in any searchable form, or it is just >page by page searching? > >I'm looking for the family of Thomas and Rebecca [PEARCE] WHEELER, who were >in the Flackwell Heath area in the 1851 census. Thomas was a papermaker, born >in Exeter, Devonshire, but in Bucks from at least 1828, when his daughter, my >ancestor Mary Ann, was baptised. Thomas and Rebecca were married in Wooburn, >September 21, 1814. We (Bucks GS) do have the raw data for the 1841 census of the Wycombe area. It is not indexed. so searching will take a little time. > >In 1851 Thomas was 57 and Rebecca was 56. I think it likely they attended >Flackwell Heath Primitive Methodist Chapel. I think Thomas died in 1866, so I'm >anxiously awaiting the 1861 release later this month to learn more about the >WHEELERs and the SMITHs. Right on track - the disc burning should be complete by early next week. (If everything goes according to plan.) > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Please excuse the ignorance of an American on the wrong side of the pond: is the 1841 census for Bucks available in any searchable form, or it is just page by page searching? I'm looking for the family of Thomas and Rebecca [PEARCE] WHEELER, who were in the Flackwell Heath area in the 1851 census. Thomas was a papermaker, born in Exeter, Devonshire, but in Bucks from at least 1828, when his daughter, my ancestor Mary Ann, was baptised. Thomas and Rebecca were married in Wooburn, September 21, 1814. In 1851 Thomas was 57 and Rebecca was 56. I think it likely they attended Flackwell Heath Primitive Methodist Chapel. I think Thomas died in 1866, so I'm anxiously awaiting the 1861 release later this month to learn more about the WHEELERs and the SMITHs. Al Dawson, Iowa City, Iowa - MA, History, UNC-Chapel Hill, 1973 Visit my website at: www.familytreemaker.com/users/d/a/w/Al--Dawson/ Ancestor Birthday: Peleg Sanford Mason, April 06, 1720, Stonington, CT. Source: Gary Boyd Roberts, "The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States, Who Were Themselves Notable or Left Descendants Notable in American History" (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, Inc., 2001) pp. 233-34

Would anyone be kind enough to look up a family for me in the 1841 census for West Drayton. The family is John Puzey (Horse Dealer??) Ann Puzey 25 Wife Julia 5 Daughter Nathaniel 2 Son Also is Staines near West Drayton? I am trying to find the Death of John ... there is one on FBMD in Staines that is a possibility if it is close enough Thanks for any help Regards Jenny (New Zealand)

<<In the documents I'm viewing, a distinction does seem to exist between the two titles, as some men are listed "Gentleman" whereas others are listed "Esquire" both in documents of 1609 and again in 1615. I have a "John Doe, Gentleman" referenced in the 1609 document and a "Capt. John Doe, Esquire" listed in the 1615 document. General thought is that the John Doe of 1609 is one-and-the-same-as the John Doe of 1615. I realize that "Gentleman" and "Esquire" are minor titles, but I am not at all familiar with the protocol associated with titles, so I'm wondering whether the earlier designation of "Gentleman" followed by the later designation of "Esquire" holds any significance? Are the different titles, in and of themselves, any indication that these may be two different men?>> At this period there was a slight difference between gentlemen and esquires - an esquire was of higher status (it was the highest status which could be claimed by someone who didn't actually have a title - the next step up was knighthood), and would normally be wealthier. You could be relatively poor and still be a gentleman by birth, but to be an esquire you had to be well off, and a working definition of an esquire could be just a better off gentleman. However there was no precise, clearly defined distinction between them and it wasn't uncommon for a wealthy gentleman sometimes to be described as esquire, or for a man usually called esquire to be referred to occasionally as a gentleman. Of course John Doe was one of the names used when conveyancing or litigation procedures required a fictional person to be a party to a land transaction or suit (Richard Roe was the other commonly used name). There's no doubt that the John Does you mentioned were real people? If they only appear in records of court proceedings or title deeds they may well have been fictional. Matt Tompkins

In message <94401D98-A626-11D9-9CB8-00039362DB14@earthlink.net>, Sandy <teylu@earthlink.net> writes >Has anyone viewed a map which depicts the relative size and boundaries >of the lands of Peterley Manor in its early days - ca late 1500s or even >some point in the 1600s? >If so, is it possible to describe for me a rough idea of those >boundaries such that I could get an idea by looking at a current-day map? > It was very small indeed, barely a proper manorial estate at all, more a large farm estate with a few cottages. and in the vicinity of Gt Missenden, where currently it is reduced to one biggish house and half a dozen smaller ones (still rather expensive, because of the area). >I'm not seeking "precision" - just trying to get a general idea of the >relative size & importance of this manor - and also its proximity to >Dinton Parish church. Miles away across country. look south of Missenden, towards Holner Green. > >Also, I've run into references to "Peterley Stone" and I'm trying to >discover if that's one-and-the-same as "Peterley" manor. Yes. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Seeking some assistance with English "titles," specifically "Gentleman" and "Esquire" in the 1600s. In the documents I'm viewing, a distinction does seem to exist between the two titles, as some men are listed "Gentleman" whereas others are listed "Esquire" both in documents of 1609 and again in 1615. I have a "John Doe, Gentleman" referenced in the 1609 document and a "Capt. John Doe, Esquire" listed in the 1615 document. General thought is that the John Doe of 1609 is one-and-the-same-as the John Doe of 1615. I realize that "Gentleman" and "Esquire" are minor titles, but I am not at all familiar with the protocol associated with titles, so I'm wondering whether the earlier designation of "Gentleman" followed by the later designation of "Esquire" holds any significance? Are the different titles, in and of themselves, any indication that these may be two different men? Thank you for any assistance, Sandy >

Has anyone viewed a map which depicts the relative size and boundaries of the lands of Peterley Manor in its early days - ca late 1500s or even some point in the 1600s? If so, is it possible to describe for me a rough idea of those boundaries such that I could get an idea by looking at a current-day map? I'm not seeking "precision" - just trying to get a general idea of the relative size & importance of this manor - and also its proximity to Dinton Parish church. Also, I've run into references to "Peterley Stone" and I'm trying to discover if that's one-and-the-same as "Peterley" manor. Thanks for any help, Sandy >

Hi Jenny Lookup done, image being sent off list. Parents are John and Eliza STEVENS and 9m old Joseph is there too. Best wishes Celia Renshaw In Chesterfield -----Original Message----- From: Jenny Cross [mailto:jenny@jennycross.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 05 April 2005 16:02 To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [BKM] 1891 census look-up Is anyone able to look up the 1891 census for Twyford, Bucks (or one of the hamlets, Poundon and Charndon) for Walter and Joseph Stevens. In 1901 they were aged 14 and 10 and living with their 80 year old grandmother Dinah in Twyford. Unfortunately I do not know who their parents were. Walter should definitely be on the 1891 census although Joseph may be just too young TIA Jenny ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== Advertising for financial gain is not permitted on this List, although subscribers may include a link to their website in their signature.

Is anyone able to look up the 1891 census for Twyford, Bucks (or one of the hamlets, Poundon and Charndon) for Walter and Joseph Stevens. In 1901 they were aged 14 and 10 and living with their 80 year old grandmother Dinah in Twyford. Unfortunately I do not know who their parents were. Walter should definitely be on the 1891 census although Joseph may be just too young TIA Jenny

I am trying to get information on the Bennett family of Gawcott up to late 1800s Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

Does anyone know the SIMONDS family of Weedon. I am trying to help out a distant relative who is aged 99 with family information. Her parents were Walter Simonds who married Lousia Jane Gurnett (b 1882). e-mail me off list NEIL REES Bucks