WEDNESDAY LUNCHTIME GALLERY TALKS AT BUCKINGHAMSHIRE COUNTY MUSEUM All talks 12.30-13.00 4 May Of lace and men 11 May Rocks and fossils: the Museum's geology collections 18 May Vintage Aylesbury - the Cubitt Car Company in the 1920s 25 May Museum Treasures - archaeological finds acquired under the Treasure Act 1 June The wonderful and frightening world of insects 8 June Margaret and Peter Aldington answer questions in the exhibition 'A Garden and Three Houses' For further details of museum events and exhibitions visit www.buckscc.gov.uk/museum Buckinghamshire County Museum, Church Street, Aylesbury, HP20 2QP, 01296 331 441 Miss Alexandra MacCulloch Keeper of Art, Clothing and Textiles Buckinghamshire County Museum Visit our Web Site : http://www.buckscc.gov.uk **** Buckinghamshire County Council E-mail Disclaimer ******** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, the use of the information by disclosure, copying or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager at postmaster@buckscc.gov.uk This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for content and for the presence of computer viruses. **** End of Disclaimer ***************************************

It is with regret that I must report a temporary absence from the Internet for the time being. After a long faithful service our home computer died today at the age of almost ten years. We knew this was on the cards and were in the process of transferring data to floppy disk. Unfortunately we hadn't completed this process and unless we can get the thing working again we have lost all our photographs from our honeymoon in Budapest in 2003, and all Davyd's photographs from his business trips to Crete and Costa de la Luz, as well as one or two pieces of software that we no longer have the disks for. Fortunately my family history, one-name study and the multiple records of transcriptions and searches that I had done are safely stored on floppy disk. I can still get access to the Internet at work, though I have to be careful about the amount of time I spend on the work computer using it for personal use. I can also use Davyd's work computer for essential emails only (like this one). We are exploring getting a new computer, but don't have the spare cash lying around at present. If you wish to contact me in the meantime, the best way to do this is the old fashioned methods (which will be sent out separately rather than to the email lists). Hope you're all well, Graham Taylor-Paddick Aylesbury, Bucks, UK "This book is not to be discarded lightly: it should be thrown with great force..." Dorothy Parker, in a review for "The House at Pooh Corner" by A. A. Milne http://uk.geocities.com/francs2000 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

Am new to this list and researching James COMPTON. There seem to be a lot of COMPTONs in Bucks so was hoping some of your listers might help. Working backwards... my James COMPTON died in Staffs in Hanbury, aged 33, in 1880. His SECOND wife was Emma; married her in Burton-on-Trent when he was a 28 year old widower. I think he must have been born abt 1847 but can't find him on 1837online, nor FreeBMD. There was a James COMPTON married to a Hannah with a son George aged 4 on the 1871. James born Castlethorpe. Wonder if this was his first wife? Can anyone help? Suzie

<<Well, as long as we're on the subject of surname origins, can anyone enlighten me as to the likely origins of Woodliffe/Woodleefe (nowadays in the U.S. mostly spelled 'Woodlief' or 'Woodliff') ? Is this a 'place name'? While mine seem to have been in Bucks (at least briefly from rougly mid 1500s to early 1600s), it looks as though an awful lot of them congregate around Lincs.....from whence mine may well have come.>> It beats me, Sandy. I've looked in various of the specialist surname books in our library and can't find it in any of them. I've looked in some place-name books, including the English Place-names Survey's 'Place-names of Oxfordshire' and the still-incomplete volumes of 'Place-names of Lincolnshire', and can't find any place with a name like Woodliff. Of course that doesn't mean the surname didn't come from a place-name which isn't in those books, but it just doesn't look like a place-name. Liff or Lief or anything similar isn't a common place-name element, especially not as the second or generic element. In fact I can't think of any other place-name ending with it, and I can't find anything like it in any book on place-name elements. I suppose Woodlief could possibly be a corruption of Woodleigh, but that doesn't seem very likely, as there are hundreds, if not thousands, of known place-names whose generic element is -leigh, ley etc yet none of them has corrupted to -lief or -liff. So it must fall into one of the other categories of surnames. A nickname or occupational surname seems most likely, though I don't know what it would mean, as I don't know of any word similar to liff or lief which could be combined with wood to make either a nickname or occupation. Perhaps it is just leaf - ie thing which falls off trees - but 'wood-leaf' seems rather redundant. Or it might conceivably be a surname originating in a personal name - some kind of Anglo-Saxon name like Wud-leaf, maybe? Or even Odd-leaf, since in surnames and place-names Wood/Wold and Od/Old are sometimes interchangeable (for instance Odell originated as Wood-hill or Woad-hill). Unfortunately I don't know enough about Anglo-Saxon personal names to say. Matt

On Tuesday, April 26, 2005, at 04:32 AM, Tompkins, M.L. wrote: > Or it might conceivably be a surname originating in a personal name - > some kind of Anglo-Saxon name like Wud-leaf, maybe? Or even Odd-leaf, > since in surnames and place-names Wood/Wold and Od/Old are sometimes > interchangeable (for instance Odell originated as Wood-hill or > Woad-hill). Unfortunately I don't know enough about Anglo-Saxon > personal names to say. > Me either. But Ancestry.com lists: "English (Lincolnshire): from the Old English personal name Wuduleof." source: Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press. I don't know if that's accurate, but I think it makes more sense than the place-name explanations I've seen. -Sandy >

As an aside to this, the Winslow Court Rolls which start in 1322 show exactly when ordinary peasants started using surnames, because the (new) system was still extremely fluid then: people with no surnames, people with several surnames at once, people with different surnames at different stages of their life, etc. As far as I can see, surnames then were more likely to be personal (especially patronymics or metronymics and place-names) than inherited. By the time the first surviving series of Court Rolls ends in 1377, a much more stable system had developed, and when they start again in the 15th century surnames are virtually always inherited from the father. So a peasant surname has really got to be a term which would be in use in the early 14th century. No Puddephatts in Winslow, though! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr David Noy Lecturer (currently on sabbatical) Department of Classics University of Wales Lampeter U.K. d.noy@lamp.ac.uk www.lamp.ac.uk/~noy

In message <200504251121.j3PBLeGs024557@mail.rootsweb.com>, Celia Renshaw <celia@valinor.force9.co.uk> writes >A few STANLEY bits from Buckingham. >Their connection to JOLLY interests me, on of my main lines - see marriages >marked **. Please get in touch if you see a link. > >Celia Renshaw >In Chesterfield UK > >Baptisms >4 Oct 1775 Fanny STANDLY dau of Israel >Oct 1775 Ann STANDLY dau of Israel Israel Stanley was a bit of a ladies' man, and had children by a lady he later married. You can read all about it in Bukingham Settlements, when she chased him for maintenance - I will check this, but tomorrow, since I have done my quota of stair climbing for today. > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Well, as long as we're on the subject of surname origins, can anyone enlighten me as to the likely origins of Woodliffe/Woodleefe (nowadays in the U.S. mostly spelled 'Woodlief' or 'Woodliff') ? Is this a 'place name'? While mine seem to have been in Bucks (at least briefly from rougly mid 1500s to early 1600s), it looks as though an awful lot of them congregate around Lincs.....from whence mine may well have come. Thanks, Sandy >

Hi again, just wondering if anbody is researching Crane's from Newton Longville or Plumb's from Fenny Cheers Clive Gates Canada --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

Hi all, I received this email today re the Puddephatt name, does this make more sense ? "The Puddephatt Name My Mother always said that when she was at school other children called her �Pudding Fat� � which is hardly surprising as her surname was Puddephatt. This nickname was not far off the original derivation of the name. The first element of the name �Pudde� is probably the dialectal �puddy� or �poddy� which in Old English meant round or stout in the belly . This came from the Germanic root �pud(d) meaning to swell or bulge (eg as found in the word �pudding� � which is something that swells up when cooked). In Low German the word �puddig� meant thick or stumpy. In Old English the word �puduc� meant a wen (ie a fat spot or lump) and the dialectal �pod� was used to describe a large protuberant belly (in which form it still is often used). In Modern English peas grow in a pod that swells up as the peas inside ripen. It is clear that the second element �Phatt� is not �foot� but �fat� from the Old English �fat� meaning a vessel. With the introduction of the letter �v� into English (it was not used in Old German) this word became our �vat� meaning tub or cask. So someone given the name Puddephatt would be a person with a prominent paunch. In medieval England the �d� would have been pronounced as a �t�. Thus Pudifat (and Puddephatt) would have been pronounced �putifat� or even �putifet� . The �t� pronunciation lives on in modern English words such a pot and potty - a fat pot (or Pudifat) that goes under the bed. The earliest reference to the name that I can locate is one Roger Pudifat in Cambridgeshire in 1188. The same gentleman (or someone of the same name) reappears in Hertfordshire in 1233. In 1212 there was a Herbert Pudifat in Yorkshire and in 1213 a Richard Pudefed in Oxfordshire. As spelling did not start to become standardised until the 17th century and as spoken English underwent a great vowel shift some two centuries earlier there are many different written versions of the name. These include: Puddephatt, Puddifoot, Pudifoot, Puddefoot, Pudefat, Pudifat and Podifat It would appear that the surname in its many different forms was largely restricted to the counties of Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire. So it would appear that for the past 1000 years the Puddephatts have not been great travellers." Clive Gates --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

<<There is no historical evidence that it was not done, and given the>> If it is asserted that the surname Puddephatt originated with runaway serfs who had deformed feet because their lords had driven metal spikes through them, or had iron feet because they had lost a foot from the same cause, then some evidence really should be provided that this did happen, that it happened in the period when serfs were adopting hereditary surnames, and that it happened sufficiently often to have given rise to the surname. Saying there's no evidence that it didn't happen isn't enough. My remarks about medieval society were naturally not based only on my own research. In fact they were based principally on the research of the many other historians who have studied manorial society and surnames during the entire medieval period, using original records - studies which my own work requires me to be familiar with. I won't go through all the points in debate again; suffice it to say that anyone who reads the historical literature of the last few decades will find little to support the idea that rural manors at the time when surnames were being acquired by serfs were 'concentration camps' - the more we study the actual records of manors the more we see a quite different picture. Incidentally, before I posted my comments I showed the spiked feet story to a couple of professors of medieval history who have worked on manorial records for many records. And this weekend I also mentioned it to some of the other historians attending a conference at Nottingham University on 'Slavery, Freedom and Unfreedom in the Middle Ages' (including one who gave a paper at the conference discussing the extent of lords' power over their tenants in thirteenth century England). None of them thought it had any foundation in fact (one professor, who has published quite a bit specifically on serfdom, called it 'total fantasy'). Matt Tompkins

There is a Festival in Aston Abbotts near Aylesbury this weekend to celebrate the local World War II Czechoslovak links. Friday 29th April, Saturday 30th April and Sunday 1st May For more details contact me or read the articles in the Bucks Herald and Leighton Buzzard Observer. Neil Rees

A few STANLEY bits from Buckingham. Their connection to JOLLY interests me, on of my main lines - see marriages marked **. Please get in touch if you see a link. Celia Renshaw In Chesterfield UK Baptisms 4 Oct 1775 Fanny STANDLY dau of Israel Oct 1775 Ann STANDLY dau of Israel Marriages 29 Jan 1586/7 John JOANES & Alice STANDLEY 30 Aug 1651 William STANLY & Elizabeth HARIS 28 Oct 1708 Philip STANDLEY & Anne STEVENS of Winslow 30 Dec 1712 William WALLINGTON of Aylesbury & Elizabeth STANLEY of Nash 5 Jan 1713/4 by banns Jacob STANLEY & Martha ALLEIN 20 May 1728 by lic Samuell CLARK otp & Sarah STANLY otp 30 Apr 1730 by banns Jonathan STANLY otp & Mary ALLEN otp 25 May 1736 by banns John BUCK & Esther STANLY 25 Dec 1748 by banns Israel STANLY otp & Rosimond GAYTON otp 12 Apr 1767 by banns Israel STANLEY X of Buckingham & Jane WATTS X of Buckingham. Wits: John EDGAR & Wm X JOLLEY** 11 Aug 1776 by banns John PILGRIM X of Bradwell, Bucks & Mary STANLY X otp. Wits: Jno MILLS; Mary EDGAR 22 May 1777 by banns Israel STANLY X wid otp & Ann WEST X otp. Wits: Richd X NORTH; John MILLS 27 Jan 1779 by lic George PAXTON X of Gosbyton, Lincs & Susanna STANLEY X otp. Wits: Thos AYRES; Ed UPSTONE 8 Nov 1788 by banns Thomas BURGESS otp & Lavina GAYTON X otp. Wits: Francis X STANLEY; Henry BURLEY 14 Dec 1789 by banns John MARKHAM X otp & Fanny STANLEY X Wits: Cathrine MARKHAM; Wm DAVY; Robert HOLT 7 Mar 1791 by banns William GRUMMIT(S) otp & Ann STANLEY X otp. Wits: Thos CLARK; Ann X NORTH 24 May 1793 by lic William TAYLOR of Potterspury & Ann STANLY X otp. Wits: Richard GOODE; John BATES 22 Apr 1816 by banns Israel STANLY bach otp & Sarah HERBERT X wcp spin otp. Wits: Thom MARKHAM; Mary MARKHAM 15 Oct 1816 by banns Jonathan STANLY X otp & Jane LINES X otp. Wits: Martin X CROOK; John EDGAR 10 Nov 1816 by banns Martin CROOK X otp & Ann BALES X otp. Wits: Israel STANDLEY; Asenath JERRAMS 29 Nov 1825 by banns William FORD X bach otp & Hannah LEESON X spin otp. Wits: George KING; Mary X STANLEY 18 May 1829 by banns John GUNTHORPE bach otp & Rebecca NEALE spin otp. Wits: John TUNKS; Elizabeth X STANLEY 20 Jun 1830 by banns William GUNTRIP X bach otp & Elizabeth STANDLEY X spin otp. Wits: John FRENCH; William AYRES; Mary X STANDLEY 16 Nov 1834 by banns Thomas DRUCE bach otp & Mary FRENCH spin otp. Wits: William STANDLEY; Mary PANGBORN 4 Jul 1830 by banns John FRENCH bach otp & Martha STANDLEY X spin otp. Wits: George FRENCH; Mary X STANDLEY 4 Oct 1839 by banns William STANDLEY 23 bach mason (father Jonathan, Mason) & Mary JOLLY X 22 spin of Buckingham (father Samuel, Butcher). Wits: John X STANDLEY & Ann X BLINCOWE** 3 Jan 1842 by banns William MILLER 33 bach brick maker of Turweston (father John, Lab) & Charlotte JOLLY X 31 spin of Buckingham (father Samuel, Butcher). Wits: William STANDLEY; Mary X STANDLEY** -----Original Message----- From: Eve McLaughlin [mailto:eve@varneys.demon.co.uk] Sent: 25 April 2005 10:35 To: BUCKS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BKM] STANLEYs of Buckingham In message <1d5.3a979fdf.2f9a51a0@aol.com>, Lactodorum192242@aol.com writes >Hi Listers, > >Is there anyone researching the STANLEY families of Buckingham ? > >I`m interested in James born c1801 he marries `Unknown` around 1818 and has >9 children : >John, Israel, James, Mary, Thomas, Fanny, Sarah, George & Joseph (who later >calls himself - Josiah. >Descendants are traced but his ancestry seems to elude me. Any help >appreciated. Contact Peter Stanley, also a BGS member -= in fact, he may contact you, as your details were in the last Bucks Ancestor magazine. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== Questions about the list administration? Contact the listowners: Dave Carlsen - davidcarlsen@charter.net (USA); Judith Young - Arkleside@ntlworld.com (UK)

Hello all. Are there any records of Taplow Grammar School, where my grandfather Henry BRAMSTON (age 12) was a pupil in 1881? I have found one short reference to it in the biography of Sidney Dyke, nephew of the principal: http://jcp.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/56/5/323 In the 1871 census Henry was living in a City of London tenement with his parents Martha and James BRANSTON/BRAMSTON, harness maker, but in 1881 his parents were missing, probably dead, so I have been wondering who could have paid for his education at Taplow. The entry for Taplow Grammar School in the online 1881 census is a bit puzzling, so I looked it up on microfilm at the Family Record Centre. The enumerator departed from the usual procedure by putting one of the teachers, Thomas FLACK (age 47) at the beginning of the school list and entering 'Assistant' in the Relation column. Consequently in the LDS transcription on CD and the internet, the name of the school has been omitted, and nearly 180 pupils, teachers and staff etc. on the school list are included with the inhabitants of the neighbouring cottage. David Leach Farnborough, Hampshire.

In message <1d5.3a979fdf.2f9a51a0@aol.com>, Lactodorum192242@aol.com writes >Hi Listers, > >Is there anyone researching the STANLEY families of Buckingham ? > >I`m interested in James born c1801 he marries `Unknown` around 1818 and has >9 children : >John, Israel, James, Mary, Thomas, Fanny, Sarah, George & Joseph (who later >calls himself - Josiah. >Descendants are traced but his ancestry seems to elude me. Any help >appreciated. Contact Peter Stanley, also a BGS member -= in fact, he may contact you, as your details were in the last Bucks Ancestor magazine. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Oops .... I should have changed my signature of course .... the Bedfordshire Census for 1891 is in fact 100% complete. If anyone has changes to advise I will be pleased to incorporate them provided it conforms to what appears on the fiche. I may be able to consider enumerator errors in the notes but please do not ask me to include family or current researcher details . Regards -- Mike Strange www.yourtotalevent.com for: STRANGE one-name study FreeCen 1891 Census transcription for Bedfordshire (100% on-line and FREE) Microfiche readers for sale HMS Galatea Memorial

Hi Keith I have to agree with Paul on this one. The parish is in two parts, and in the first most of it can't be read at all and an existing knowledge of the families of Marsworth would be an enormous help in transcribing the rest! However....... In the readable bits in that first part, there is a William and Mary SMITH and children (no Joseph), also a Thomas and Fanny SMITH and children (no Joseph). In the second part of the parish (which is quite readable) there is a John and Elizabeth SMITH (in their 70s) with another John SMITH age 35 with them, a Martha SMITH age 20 servant at the vicarage......then not one but two Joseph SMITHs that could be your man, as ages were rounded and not precise that year! One is age 15 shepherd born in county, working for Kezia HALL age 75. The other is age 14 and living with parents (presumably parents, remember no relationships are given in the 1841) James and Sarah SMITH. piece 50 ed 12, top of pages have been cut off so can't give you folio or pg numbers, all born in county: James SMITH 40 ag lab Sarah SMITH 35 Joseph SMITH 14 ag lab William SMITH 10 George SMITH 4 and an unnamed female baby aged 2 days! I guess you will need to look again at other evidence so you can work out which Joseph is yours. Regards Alex in Auckland NZ --- Paul Irving <pauljirving@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Having looked at the Marsworth 1841 census with a > view to transcribing > it, I must say that you don't realise what a big > thing you're asking > for. It's the most illegible parish I've seen. > > Maybe someone has access to a better copy than mine, > or is better at > deciphering it. Good luck, > > Paul > > keith hammond wrote: > > >Dear List, > > Everyone has been so kind in helping > me upto date THANK YOU SO MUCH. Can i be so rude and > ask for a little more help ? I am researching my > SMITH ancestors from Marsworth and wonder if you can > help with an 1841 census look up for smith famillies > ? I am especially looking for a JOSEPH SMITH aged > about 13 on the 1851 he was aged 23 and born > Marsworth he was an agricultural labourer. His > father may well have been a James smith. Thanks so > much for your kind help. > > > >Keith in Malta. > > > > > >==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > >View or download up to 20000 archive photos of > Buckinghamshire from the Bucks County Council web > site at: http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/photo_database Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

Hi I am posting my new interests for Whitchurch, and hoping that someone else has some of these names in their tree... Descendants of Jesse Moxom 1 Jesse MOXOM b: 1848 in Ashford, Kent +Maria b: 1852 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Elizabeth Mary MOXOM b: 1870 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Edgar George MOXOM b: 1873 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire William MOXOM b: 1875 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Maud Margaret MOXOM b: 1877 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Annie Sarah MOXOM b: 1883 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Frederick Anthony MOXOM b 1885 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Albert Ernest MOXOM b: 1888 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Elizabeth MOXOM marris George William YOUNg b 1870 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire They had the following children: May YOUNG b: 1893 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Jesse Jabez YOUNG b: 1894 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire William George YOUNG b: 1897 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire Redvers Horace YOUNG b: 1900 in Whitchurch, Buckinghamshire I would be delighted to hear from anyone who has connectiosn to these families Kind regards Tezz _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

I am delighted to be able to publicly thank all of the transcribers and checkers who have made it possible for the 1891 Census for Bedfordshire to be available on-line and without charge for access - yes folks it's FREE. For those new to this list you may not be aware of the FreeCEN - UK Census Online Project which can be found at http://freecen.rootsweb.com/ Now for some statistics and detail: The Bedfordshire census recorded 165,885 souls on PRO Pieces RG12/1243 to 1275 inclusive. The Bedfordshire census did include a small number of places across the border in Buckinghamshire, similarly a couple of home county villages were covered by Northamptonshire. Full details of these can be seen on my own website at http://www.yourtotalevent.com/projects/freecenbdf.htm The number of people included, to date, in the FreeCEN records for 1891 total 2,625,308; clearly more County co-ordinators, transcribers and checkers are needed to boost these numbers So if you feel you can spare a little time go along to http://freecen.rootsweb.com/ check out the project and volunteer! My regards -- Mike Strange www.yourtotalevent.com for: STRANGE one-name study FreeCen 1891 Census transcription for Bedfordshire (90% on-line and FREE) Microfiche readers for sale HMS Galatea Memorial

Keith, I do not have ready access to the 1851 or 1861, however, in the event that the following might help you in differentiating among the Joseph Smiths which Alex cites in the 1841, here are the Joseph Smith households enumerated in Marsworth in the 1871 and 1881: 1871 Bucks, Civ. Parish: Marsworth RG10/1390, ED 5, Folio 19, pg 4: #17 Stanhopes(?) End: Joseph SMITH, head, married, 42, farm labourer; b Bucks Marsworth; Mary Smith, wife, married, Straw plaitter?; b Bucks Marsworth; Frederick Smith, son, 14, farmers boy; b Bucks Marsworth; William Smith, son, 12, ditto; b Bucks Marsworth; Fanny Smith, daur, 9, scholar platter; b Bucks Marsworth; Charles Smith, son, 6, ditto; b Bucks Marsworth; George Smith, son, 4, ditto; b Bucks Marsworth; Louisa(?) Smith, daur, 12 months; b Bucks Marsworth; (note that immediately preceding this household is a Thomas Smith, age 22 & unmarr., also b Bucks Marsworth, a farm labourer shown as a lodger in the household of James & Ellen Daley, who have a daughter Ellen age 6 months. I believe this Ellen may be the same as the Ellen "Dealey" shown as a granddaughter of age 10 in the 1881 household of Joseph & Mary Smith). 1871 Bucks, Civ. Parish: Marsworth RG10/1390, ED 5, Folio 28, pg 21; #106 Upper End Joseph SMITH, head, married, 49?, farm labourer, b. Bucks Marsworth; Jemima? (indexed as Pernima) Smith, wife, married, 47, Straw plaitter (?), b Bucks Ivinghoe (?) a; David Smith, son, 23, farm servant, b Bucks Marsworth; Ann Smith, daur, 12, Scholar plaitter?, b Bucks Marsworth; There is also a 3rd Joseph Smith shown in 1871, but he is only age 7, one of several childen enumerated with parents William (age 40, b. Marsworth) and Ellen (age 38, b Wigginton Bucks(?) - I think this should be Herts) Smith. Siblings of this Joseph are William, Isabella, George, Peter, Selina (?indexed as 'Selma'), and Harry. In 1881, Marsworth Civil Parish is found: RG11/1447, ED 5, Folio 70, pg 19: #103 (can't make out the road/street/housename column): (all are shown b Marsworth, Bucks) Joseph SMITH, head, age 52, married, ag. labourer; Mary Smith, wife, age 52, married; labourer's wife; Charles Smith, son, 15, ag labourer; George Smith, son, 14, ag labourer; Susan Smith, daur, 12, scholar; Ellen Dealey, grand dau, age 10, ditto; <---I believe this is the Ellen Daley shown age 6 mos in 1871 household of James & Ellen (probaby nee Smith) Daley. Frederick Dealey, age 6, ditto; Charlotte Dealey, age 3; RG11/1447, ED 5, Folio 65, pg 9: #43 (no street or Hamlet is apparent) Joseph SMITH, head, Wid, 57? (or 51), agricultural labourer, b. Bucks, Marsworth; Ann(?) (indexed as 'Agnes') SMITH, daur, unmarried, 22, straw (?strane) plaitter, b Bucks, Marsworth; ***this looks as if it's the Joseph who was married to Jemima (or Permina) in the 1871. The 3rd (& youngest) Joseph Smith (age 7 in 1871) now appears as age 17 in the household of his mother, Ellen (now 47 & widowed, b Wigginton Herts). This Joseph's father, shown as William age 40 in 1871) appears to have died. Siblings of this Joseph are George, Selina, Harry & Emma. On the next page, 2 households away from Ellen & family, are James Smith (age 80, b Marsworth) & wife Sarah (age 75 b Wingrove Bucks). Hope this helps somewhat, -Sandy > On Saturday, April 23, 2005, at 02:55 PM, Alexandra Coles wrote: > Hi Keith > > I have to agree with Paul on this one. The parish is > in two parts, and in the first most of it can't be > read at all and an existing knowledge of the families > of Marsworth would be an enormous help in transcribing > the rest! However....... > > In the readable bits in that first part, there is a > William and Mary SMITH and children (no Joseph), also > a Thomas and Fanny SMITH and children (no Joseph). > > In the second part of the parish (which is quite > readable) there is a John and Elizabeth SMITH (in > their 70s) with another John SMITH age 35 with them, a > Martha SMITH age 20 servant at the vicarage......then > not one but two Joseph SMITHs that could be your man, > as ages were rounded and not precise that year! One is > age 15 shepherd born in county, working for Kezia HALL > age 75. The other is age 14 and living with parents > (presumably parents, remember no relationships are > given in the 1841) James and Sarah SMITH. > > piece 50 ed 12, top of pages have been cut off so > can't give you folio or pg numbers, all born in > county: > James SMITH 40 ag lab > Sarah SMITH 35 > Joseph SMITH 14 ag lab > William SMITH 10 > George SMITH 4 > and an unnamed female baby aged 2 days! > > I guess you will need to look again at other evidence > so you can work out which Joseph is yours. > > Regards > Alex in Auckland NZ > > --- Paul Irving <pauljirving@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> Having looked at the Marsworth 1841 census with a >> view to transcribing >> it, I must say that you don't realise what a big >> thing you're asking >> for. It's the most illegible parish I've seen. >> >> Maybe someone has access to a better copy than mine, >> or is better at >> deciphering it. Good luck, >> >> Paul >> >> keith hammond wrote: >> >>> Dear List, >>> Everyone has been so kind in helping >> me upto date THANK YOU SO MUCH. Can i be so rude and >> ask for a little more help ? I am researching my >> SMITH ancestors from Marsworth and wonder if you can >> help with an 1841 census look up for smith famillies >> ? I am especially looking for a JOSEPH SMITH aged >> about 13 on the 1851 he was aged 23 and born >> Marsworth he was an agricultural labourer. His >> father may well have been a James smith. Thanks so >> much for your kind help. >>> >>> Keith in Malta. >>> >>> >>> ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== >>> View or download up to 20000 archive photos of >> Buckinghamshire from the Bucks County Council web >> site at: http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/photo_database > > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > http://au.movies.yahoo.com > > > ==== BUCKS Mailing List ==== > To search the BUCKS list message archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=BUCKS >