Hi, I am seeking information for: BRUCE,? b. Ind. Married Nancy ? b.in Glasgow,Scotland their son: William BRUCE b abt 1844 in Ind Married Catherine MILLER b.abt 1846 in Ky their son: William Luther BRUCE b.30 April 1876 in Grant County,Ky married Sarah Evaline STRANGE in Howard County, MO their son: Harold BRUCE b, in Boone County,Mo. Does any of this look familiar to anyone? This my brickwall Any help would be appreciated. Dee in KCMO

Thomas Bruce, b abt 1855 Sumner Co., TN, d Dec 1890 Bowling Green, KY., married Luvinia _?_. Their children were Shellie, Claude, and Eulah, all born before 1890. Anybody know them? Joyce

>Speaking of geography, I am looking for the descendants of John Wesley Bruce >(abt 1810-21 Jul 1883) and his son John A. Bruce (28 Jul 1848-5 Oct 1893). >John Wesley Bruce was the son of David A. Bruce (son of James Bruce, Sr. and >Lucratia Gaines) and Lucy Ann Bruce (daughter of William Bruce and Mary > _?_). A gentleman responded to my query about John Wesley Bruce, and twice I've tried to e-mail him but had both messages bounce because they "could not be delivered for 1 day" and were deleted from the queue. I am very interested in exchanging information with him concerning these Bruce families from Sumner County, TN. Joyce

I am searching for the descendants of Thomas Bruce Married Annie Marie Rowe 1898 Hackey England Father to Thomas is William Bruce 238 Neville Road Upton Park Forest Gate England Appreciate any information Lynda

Rowland & everyone on list: Does anyone have BRUCE's in Co Mayo, Ireland? William BRUCE b. Jan 1828 Tourlough, Co Mayo, Ireland Farmer md Margaret "Maggie" SHAW 1857 She was b. Jul 1834 Ireland 7 Children: 1. John b 4 Mar 1858 Tourlough, Co Mayo, Ireland 2. Annie b. 12 Nov 1860 Tourlough md John LUDLOW 12 Oct 1892 Huron Co, MI 3. William b. 25 Dec 1862/1863 Tourlough md Rosanna LUDLOW 10 Apr 1890 Huron Co, MI (sister of John) 4. Andrew b. 6 May 1864 Tourlough 5. George G. b. 5 Sep 1866 Castlebar, Co Mayo, Ireland md Mary FREMONT 12 Mar 1889 Port Hope, Huron Co, MI (My Great-grandparents) 6. Andrew James b.1 Nov 1872 Huron Co, MI md Ellen LUDLOW 29 Mar 1898 Huron Co, MI 7. Robert b. 21 May 1875 Huron Co, MI md Frances Unk in 1906 William & Margaret were on the 1880 Huron Co, MI Census & also the 1900 Huron Co, MI Census showing they immigrated in 1870 & on the first census says both sets of their parents were from Ireland while the 1900 census says Maggie's were from Ireland & Scotland. So unsure about that. But this seems to indicate that the BRUCE's were in Ireland from at least early 1800's to 1870. Possibly the LUDLOW & SHAW families also. Anyone have any information on Irish BRUCE's?? If the naming pattern is any indication William's father may have been John & Maggie's father could have been Andrew. Mary Finlay (ErtlTrtl@aol.com)

Hi Bruce listers, My apologies if I sounded touchy, I had hoped the attempted humour "Ye Gods, Marty, don't let a Yorkshirman etc" would indicate the tone I hoped to convey. I guess it must be like those pesky Canadians, who DO have a common border with USA being upset at being called Ameican, not to mention the American couple I met in Austria last year who were keen to tell me the STAMFORD they lived in was NOT the Stamford in New York state, (I didn't even know there was one,) but in Conneticut. I'm not sure exactly, but I would hazard a guess it is a lot less than 200 miles they were talking aboutin terms of York and Edinburgh. And here I shall reitereate that York is equidistant from London and Edinburgh. I did not have to go looking at a map, Daniel and April, to check my "bold statement." I lived there for fourteen years and apart from the people's general knowledge of the place, there is a milestone just outside the city wall at Micklegate Bar which has 200 miles London on one side and 200 miles Edinburgh on the other. I think you may have been looking at the distance "as the crow flies," whereas the milestone indicates distance by road, and the roads are more circuitous north of York because of rivers and the more rugged terrain generally, but it is that which would have mattered to travellers before the days of mechanised transport. (Not clutter, guys, this is an important genealogical consideration in the context of population movements in the middle ages etc.) The time we are talking about was the late 1100-1300's. As an aside, there is no County of Edinburgh. Your map should have indicated Midlothian, added to which, the Bruce's were never connected with Edinburgh anyway. Scone in Perthshire was the Royal seat in those days, or perhaps Stirling and Dunfirmline should also be the area we are talking about. Dunfirmline is not far from Edinburgh in a straight line, but, being the other side of the Firth, in the days before it was bridged it was a considerable distance away in time. The Bruce was buried at Dunfirmline Abbey. (And before I am taken to task over this statement, I know his heart was taken to the Holy Land and finally interred in Melrose Abbey.) As for the inter-relationship of the English and Scottish Bruce's it would seem my posting of 27 February 2001 has been missed by some, wherein I set out the descent of the eight successive Robert Bruces from the one who came with the Conqueror in 1066 to Robert I, King of the Scots, who was the hero of Bannockburn in 1314. Genealogy folks, not clutter: the first Robert's grandson was the one granted land in Annandale. I had set out to display the connection between the Yorkshire Bruce family and the Scottish one, not to suggest anything odd about two families of the same name living in two different countries. I derived much of this information from "King Robert the Bruce, 1274-1329" by Karl Pearson, F.R.S. This was a subscription printing by the Cambridge University Press, and the flyleaf has an inscription by me dated 1971, "Whilst (as yet) I have proved no link of modern Yorkshire BRUCE's with the Scottish line, there seems no doubt all Bruce's in Britain are descended from Robert de Brus." He is the Robert of 1066. (Maybe all claimed Bruce descendents could be DNA tested, to see if this hypotheseis holds true!) Similarly, to those who consider I have "cluttered" the site, that was not my intention at all; I thought I was helping. The medieval system of government in different countries like England and Scotland is difficult enough for foreigners to understand without a misunderstanding of the geography as well, and I myself have found it useful in reserching my wife's ancestry in Lincolnshire, the very next county to Yorkshire, to have had some geograpical guidence along the way, for example an area which in years gone by was literally an island cut off from communication and social events like marriage with areas we would consider within easy walking distance from a modern map proved valuable in tracing one particular person, who heppened to be a boatman. ----- Original Message ----- From: <BLeeWM@aol.com> To: <BRUCE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Clutter > Have to say, I enjoyed them too! > > > ==== BRUCE Mailing List ==== > > >

Rowland, I especially enjoyed your very educational post of 3-9-01. I am saving it for future reference. Sue Bouska in partly sunny Balch Springs, Dallas Co., Texas, USA

Speaking of geography, I am looking for the descendants of John Wesley Bruce (abt 1810-21 Jul 1883) and his son John A. Bruce (28 Jul 1848-5 Oct 1893). John Wesley Bruce was the son of David A. Bruce (son of James Bruce, Sr. and Lucratia Gaines) and Lucy Ann Bruce (daughter of William Bruce and Mary _?_). Both left estates in Sumner Co. TN that involved the sale of real estate, and through several deeds I've traced their descendants to several locations and even discovered some descendants I didn't know previously: John Luther Bruce, son of Smith Lee Bruce and Harriett _?_ , was born about 1869, and on 12 Sep 1901 an item in the Coalgate (OK) Courier reported that he and his wife attended a wedding there. On 16 May 1902 his signature on a deed was notarized in Indian Territory, Central District. In July 1904, his signature was notarized in Otoka Co., Central District, Indian Territory. Adeline Perry Bruce, widow of Smith Lee Bruce, was in Adair Co., MO on 2 May 1903 and again on 9 Feb 1904. Along with Adeline on that same 1904 date, Sallie Bruce and Willie Bruce had their signatures witnessed. These may be children born to Adeline and Smith Lee Bruce between 1880 and 1892 when he died. Cenia Bruce DeLay and her husband Edward DeLay were in Douglass Co., Wisconsin on 16 Feb 1904. Cenia may be another daughter. Cleva Bruce was in Douglass Co., Wisconsin on 1 July 1906 when she acknowledged the deed. Another daughter? By 1925, Cleva had married and moved to El Reno, Canadian Co. Oklahoma, with her husband H. C. Hicks. Lillie Bruce signed the deed on 19 Nov 1909 in Cole Co., OK. Bessie Bruce signed on 5 Jul 1909 at Colgate, Indian Territory, Central District. James R. Perry, son of William R. Perry and Harriett Bruce, was also in Cole/Coal County, Central District, Indian Territory, etc., on these dates and was the notary public who witnessed Lillie and Bessie Bruce's signatures. Mary Bruce Everett/Averett and her husband George W. Averett were in Tullahoma, Coffee Co., TN in 1904. By 1925, Mary had moved to Oklahoma near her brother John Luther Bruce. A question about these dates: The signatures of Sallie, Willie, Cenia, Cleva, Lillie, and Bessie seem to be unrelated to the date the deeds were drawn. Might these dates reflect their reaching the age of 21? I would very much like to hear from anyone researching this line. Joyce

Rowland, I, for one, greatly appreciate your posts. I did, unfortunately miss the post of 27 February 2001. Would you mind re-posting it to me at my e-mail address? >>As for the inter-relationship of the English and Scottish Bruce's it would seem my posting of 27 February 2001 has been missed by some, wherein I set out the descent of the eight successive Robert Bruces from the one who came with the Conqueror in 1066 to Robert I, King of the Scots, who was the hero of Bannockburn in 1314. << I am also descended "by tradition" from Red Comyn <g> Emphasis here on "by tradition" only, since the origins of my Cummings ancestors have not been traced back much further than Bocking, 1561, Copford, Easthorpe, and Mistley, Essex. Many TIA, Claudia Cridland, in snowy Massachusetts, U.S.A.

Have to say, I enjoyed them too!

Ye Gods Marty, Don't let a Yorkshireman hear you expounding these heresies! Go wash your mouth out with carbolic. Yorkshire and Scotland do noyt have a common boundry. Anywhere south of York, (and that houses by far the greatest proportion of the population,) is nearer to London than Edinburgh Rowland BRUCE Adelaide Australia, born in Yorkshire. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Marty73036@aol.com> To: <BRUCE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:54 PM Subject: Re: BRUCE-D Digest V01 #29 > Since Yorkshire borders Scotland and Edinburgh is in the same area bordering > Yorkshire, it is logical that there would be Bruces scattered all over the > area - on both sides of the border. I suspect all the Bruces in the area > will connect in some way. > > Just my .02 worth!! > > Marty Young > El Reno, OK > searching for Young, Bruce, Wise, Frazier (all spellings), Reynolds, Reese, > Lucas and many others > > > ==== BRUCE Mailing List ==== > The Internet Mailing List for BRUCE researchers > > To unsubscribe send an e-mail to bruce-l-request@rootsweb.com > with 'UNSUBSCRIBE' as the only text in the message > > If you get the digest version send an e-mail to bruce-d-request@rootsweb.com > with 'UNSUBSCRIBE' as the only text in the message. > > > >

Hang on just a cotton pickin minute. Yorkshire does not border Scotland. There are two more counties between Yorkshire and the border, try County Durham and Northumberland/Tyne & Wear. Only about 75 miles to the border then another 70 or so miles to Edinburgh. Not far by US standards, I admit but let's be a little more precise. Having said that, the Bruce name is spread far and wide with most claiming, probably correctly, a line back to Robert........, but the spread does not arise from mistaken geography :-). Regards. Bernard Kerr bernard@kalemar.freeserve.co.ok North Yorkshire, UK. KERR; McGRATH (Northern Ireland/Scotland) RICKELTON; MURRAY (Scotland) CHANDLER; WHITE (Norfolk/Suffolk) MARSHALL; ELLIDGE; BRANTINGHAM; BRUCE; THURLBECK (Co. Durham) EDDON; WARD; HOLLIDAY; GAMSBY; GARBUTT; MEAD; WARDILL (North Yorkshire) ROBSON; STAMP; STANFORTH; HOLLINGS (North Yorkshire) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Marty73036@aol.com> To: <BRUCE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 1:24 PM Subject: Re: BRUCE-D Digest V01 #29 > Since Yorkshire borders Scotland and Edinburgh is in the same area bordering > Yorkshire, it is logical that there would be Bruces scattered all over the > area - on both sides of the border. I suspect all the Bruces in the area > will connect in some way. > > Just my .02 worth!! > > Marty Young > El Reno, OK > searching for Young, Bruce, Wise, Frazier (all spellings), Reynolds, Reese, > Lucas and many others > > ______________________________

I think this web site should be used only for the exchange of genealogical information and not for people to argue about what borders on what. If someone wants to thank someone for something, send that to their personal email and not to the Bruce web site! Jane Bogle

Hi, Jane has a good point, although I certainly enjoyed some of the clever, tongue-in-cheek humor of the "borders" exchange. We have some pretty resourceful correspondents in our group! And, after all, the 'delete' key is always easy to reach. W/r, -= Bruce =- -----Original Message----- From: Pvilljane@aol.com [mailto:Pvilljane@aol.com] Sent: Friday, 09 Mar 2001 14:03 To: BRUCE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Clutter I think this web site should be used only for the exchange of genealogical information and not for people to argue about what borders on what. If someone wants to thank someone for something, send that to their personal email and not to the Bruce web site! Jane Bogle ==== BRUCE Mailing List ====

Rowland.... Hi...good heavens! Well, my great granny's (Graham) says that she was "of Scottish ancestry", and yet when I researched the family, found they were from Nottinghamshire, via Yorkshire. Gee, didn't know you guys were so touchy <G> Claudia

Not to be a Trouble or anything but in my experiance in geography I usually look at a map before making bold statements. The County of York is a mere 70 some American Miles from the Border of scotland and England. The Cheviot hills which is the border of Scotland and England. After the border of Scotland you have (in no particular order) Roxburgh, Selkirk, Dumpries, Berwick, and Peebles before you get to the county of Edinburgh. So I would say that the city of york and the city of Edinburgh is a Mere 150 American Miles. That is not Close. just letting you know. Dan

Hi, Marty... No doubt...I have Grahams who are in both Scotland and Yorkshire! Claudia

Since Yorkshire borders Scotland and Edinburgh is in the same area bordering Yorkshire, it is logical that there would be Bruces scattered all over the area - on both sides of the border. I suspect all the Bruces in the area will connect in some way. Just my .02 worth!! Marty Young El Reno, OK searching for Young, Bruce, Wise, Frazier (all spellings), Reynolds, Reese, Lucas and many others

John BRUCE, b. c 1797 in Fermanagh or Cavan, m. c 1822 to Mary JOHNSTON, b. c 1803 in Fermanagh. They immigrated to Canada on June 12, 1840 with their six children. John died shortly after his arrival. After a number of years, Mary and her family moved to the Deavitt's Settlement in Cartwright Twp., Durham Cty., Ontario. When she died, she was buried beside John in Cavan Twp., Durham Cty. Their children were Thomas, Robert, Margaret, Johnston, Andrew, John, Jane. Many descendants of John and Mary are buried in the Deavitt's Cemetery, Blackstock, Cartwright Twp. I would like to connect with anyone researching these people. Ron

One of Robert de Brus's (b cir 1030, in/of Carrick, Argylshire, Scotland) sons was born in France, William de Braiose, (b about 1049, in/about Brienze, Normandy, France). William de Braiose died in 1087 in Bramber, Sussex, England. The name changed for one of the sons to Braose, whose ancestor married a Bohun (Humphrey VI). Humphrey VIII, a couple of generations down the road, married Elizabeth Plantagenet, daughter of Edward I "Longshanks", king of England.and sister of Edward II, king of England and Wales. Or so LDS records say. Gary+ At 04:30 AM 2/25/2001, Bruce Bedford wrote: >As there has been a lot of movement on the "BRUCE" lineage and some seem >to think that there line comes from Scotland, may be they should look at >the Cleveland / Yorkshire area as this is where Robert de Brus settled >when he came to England from Normanby with William the Conqueror around >1066 later the name was changed by deed of parliament to Bruce, it was one >of his sons that went to Scotland and married the daughter of their King. >There are other theories to on when the name firstly came to England but >this is the most popular one. However there are still Bruces living in >Yorkshire Durham and Cleveland. One of the best authorities on the Bruce >name is Jean Smallwood as she has done many years of research on the name, >the last I heard she was writing a book on the research she has done on >the Bruce name. > >Bruce Bedford > > >==== BRUCE Mailing List ==== +++++++++++++ Gary D. Gooch San Marcos, TX gary.gooch@centurytel.net mailto:gary.gooch@centurytel.net +++++++++++++ If you believe what you like in the Gospel and reject what you like, it is not the Gospel you believe but yourselves. --St. Augustine