Thank you George,I can assure you that there will be no crow in your diet. S.B.Broyles ----- Original Message ----- From: "George W. Durman" <GermannaResearch@comcast.net> To: <BROYLES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [BROYLES] My BROYLES line > Margot, I challenge you to show me ONE BROYLES in the > country today that descends from BROYHILL. I don't mean > to be overly sensitive about this, but it just continues to irritate > me when people insist on spreading unreliable information > without a smidgen of proof to back it up. There has never > been a piece of actual paper proof of any BROYLES in Ireland > or Scotland who did not descend from original Germanic emigrants. > And, no one has ever produced a single piece of original source > document proving that any American BROYLES, of whatever > spelling variant, descended from anyone except the original > John BROYLES (the German Johannes BREYHEL/BREHEL). > > I do not dispute your claim that there may be/have been people > in Ireland who were known by names "close" to the BROYLES > pronunciation -- but, I do dispute the fact that anyone has found > in this country any BROYLES, or other related spellings, who > descend from these Irish folks. (For the record, just because a > name in one country is pronounced "close" to the pronunciation > in another country, that doesn't mean a danged thing! STOP IT!) > > Please, I don't mean to start a row, but if someone COULD > produce some original source documents that show that not all > BROYLES descendants in America come from the original > German emigrant, it would thrill me. Serious genealogy researchers > are always open to new findings, and happy to have them. It's > just that when spurious claims keep popping up, and no one can > provide a whit of valid proof, it gets tiresome. > > Now, to what you posted, specifically: > > Please see this web site: > > http://www.broyhill.org/ > > You won't find a mention of BROYLES or any of its variant > spellings. The genealogy of this family line is inclusive and > covers the original emigrant, William BROUGHALL, his son, > William BROUGHALL, Jr., and Jr's son James BROYHILL, > the first in America to take the name BROYHILL. Plus, you'll > find that all the American BROYHILL people were from England, > not Ireland or Scotland, and can trace back many centuries before > the Irish and Scots families you reference. County Cork or > Scotland does not enter into the BROYHILL line any time, any > place! > > AND, the original name, whether you claim Ireland, Scotland, > or England, was NOT "BROYHILL", or "O'BROYLES", or > "BROILS", or anything else. It was BROUGHALL, and > sometimes BROUGHILL!!!!! So much for the Irish BROYHILL. > (According to the web site referenced above, "BROUGH" > translates to "fortified place" in the Latin/Roman language, and > "HALL" translates to "earth works". So these people took a > name from a location -- they were known as the people from the > "fortified earth works", and went back as far as the Roman > occupation of Britain, i.e. present day England.) > > Please, if you're going to try to help other genealogy researchers, > make sure of your sources. The supposed BROYHILLs and > BROYLES in Ireland and Scotland were not of the BROUGHALL > line that immigrated from England to America and became the > BROYHILL line. If you find BROYLES, BROILS, O'BROYLES > and other variant spellings in Ireland, they were NOT of the > BROUGHALL/BROYHILL lines. They were emigrants from the > "continent" who came from the Germanic regions, and, so far, > no records have ever shown any of THEM immigrating from > Ireland to America. > > I SAY IT AGAIN !!!!! SHOW ME ACTUAL PAPER SOURCE > DOCUMENTS OF "ANY" BROYLES IN THIS COUNTRY > TODAY WHO DOES "NOT" DESCEND FROM THE ORIGINAL > GERMAN IMMIGRANT "JOHN BROYLES/JOHANNES > BREHEL"!!!!! > > Supposition is worse than nothing! > > Regards, > George W. Durman > (If, and when, anyone can provide proof of the fallacies in our > theories of BROYLES genealogy, we will gladly acknowledge > such proof, offer our apologies for our "arrogant" stance, and > "eat crow" forever more. Until then BROYLES is BROYLES, > and nothing else, including "not BROYHILL".) > > At 02/12/2003 11:59 PM Wednesday, margot malone wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > >There are a lot of Broyles that descend from the Broyhills of county > >Cork..the Broyhills are actually a cheiftain clan in Scotland that > >were > >given land in Ireland and then probably intermarried a lot. But the > >name was > >also pronounced Broyles and late r some became Broyles...there are > >also > >O'Broyles in Ireland. My own Grandmothers family are from Cork and I > >have > >many items that list her name as Broils which is not correct. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: George W. Durman <GermannaResearch@comcast.net> > >To: <BROYLES-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 3:41 PM > >Subject: Re: [BROYLES] My BROYLES line > > > > > > > At 01/21/2003 11:12 AM Tuesday, Sperong@aol.com wrote: > > > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > > > >Almost all American Broyles descend from Hans Jacob's father > > Johannes > > > >Breyhel > > > >and Ursula Ruop. I also descend from Cyrus and Maria Wilhite > > through > > > >son > > > >Daniel and Unknown wife. I have not done much original research > > but > > > >thanks > > > >to the research of others on this list, I have the Wilhite > > > >and Fleischmann > > > >line in my database as well as the Broyles line back a few > > > >generations. I > > > >could send it to you. > > > >(snipped) > > > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > > > > > Hello "SPERONG": > > > > > > Just a word about your first paragraph. I know you were just being > > > conservative and careful when you say "Almost all..." . Actually, > > > this subject has been raised many times in the past and from all > > the > > > research that has been done, NO BROYLES descendants have ever > > > been found that did NOT descend from Johannes BREYHEL and > > > Ursula RUOP. And, there is a very good reason for this. Johannes' > > > name in German was spelled variously BREHEL, BREYEL, BREYHEL, > > > etc., but NEVER was it spelled BROYLES, BRILES, or any of the > > > other Americanized spellings in Germany. > > > > > > Johannes, his wife, and children arrived here with the German > > > spelling. It was not until the British clerks entered the name in > > > various court records as BROYLES, BROYL, BRILE, BRILES, > > > etc., that we have the American versions. Thus, anyone with > > > the name BROYLES does descend from Johannes. Anyone > > > arriving later with the spelling BREHEL, or one of the other > > > German spellings, would very likely not have been entered in > > > the records as BROYLES. Plus, there is absolutely no record > > > of any other emigrant in the early 1700's arriving with any of > > > the various spellings, either German or Americanized. > > > > > > So, I think we can safely say that all American BROYLES or > > > BROYLES descendants descend from old Johannes. Nothing > > > is, of course, ever a 100% certainty, but during the course of > > > genealogical research no BROYLES has EVER been found that > > > can't be traced back to our Johannes. > > > > > > Regards, > > > George > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > > ==== BROYLES Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from BROYLES, send an e-mail message to: > BROYLES-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > BROYLES-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) > Subject: unsubscribe > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > (Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >