When interpreting the significance of a near or full match, it makes a huge difference what haplogroup you are and how common it is. In that respect DNA haplotypes and haplogroups are rather like surnames. If two strangers introduced at a party are both surnamed, SMITH, they aren't likely to assume they're related and start talking about their genealogy. On the other hand, if those two people are surnamed CARRICO (a very rare surname and one of my five projects), you have good reason to launch immediately into a discussion of your ancestors because it's a near certainty that you both descend from the only known pre-20th-century immigrant, Peter CARRICO, 1674 immigrant to Maryland. So... Consider Haplogroup R1b to be the SMITH of European haplogroups. It is *the* most common haplogroup in western Europe: http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/DNA/Graphics/Map-Distribution-of-R1b.shtml After running six projects for five years, I've come to the conclusion that 37 markers is the *minimum* on which to base an estimate of relatedness in R1b, and I'm not really confident without testing 67 markers, unless the match is in confirmation of good paper trails for both that show the connection. If you're trying to connect two people without a paper connection, then you've *got* to test 67 markers, at least. In contrast, the CARRICO haplotype is as rare as the name. It is so rare, our nearest DNA match gives an estimated TMRCA [Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor] of three to four thousand years. Our nearest match at even 12 markers is only 7/12, and at more markers, it goes downhill from there. We have a value at one marker that no one else ever tested has. So, if you're surnamed, CARRICO, and you have even a near match with the modal haplotype for the family, that's more than enough to support the connection. And it is because the odds of two rare events (rare surname and rare haplotype) happening simultaneously merely by coincidence are infinitesimally small. You didn't mention what haplogroup your BROWNs are, but a 67/67 match in any haplogroup is a slam dunk. Here is FTDNA's description of the meaning of a 67/67 match: http://www.familytreedna.com/genetic-distance-markers.aspx?testtype=67 The remaining question is whether you are all really BROWNs or all really ODOMS. To find that out, you need to keep working on your paper genealogy and start finding and testing cousins, both near and distant. Hope this helps, Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: brown-bounces@rootsweb.com On Behalf Of Carolyn Brown > Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 6:02 PM > To: brown@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BROWN] All DNA testees > > Have you tried contacting any of the Maxwell's or Ramseys? A > 25/25 match could maybe be as far back as the beginning of > surnames, but a 37 should be a lot closer.  Allen has very > few matches, but on Ancestry.com he matches a group of Odoms > 34/34 (they didn't test all the same markers). So far I > haven't been able to get any info from them, but it's very > interesting as the ancestor of one of his 67/67 Brown matches > bought land in 1761 from an > Odom and lived near Odoms. If nothing else the families may > have migrated from the same original area. >   > Carolyn Brown > --- On Sat, 12/19/09, FBrown726@aol.com <FBrown726@aol.com> wrote: > > > From: FBrown726@aol.com <FBrown726@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [BROWN] All DNA testees > To: brown@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 11:07 AM > > > FamilyTreeDNA is the place where my study was done in the Brown DNA  > project. I did a 37 marker test and had several 25/25 and > 37/37 matches. The  > higher the markers tested the more Ramsey and Maxwell people > there are. I cannot > locate my information to access the site right now so cannot be more > specific.  Perhaps my 2nd. great grandfather was a traveling > man, who knows? His > name was  William Brown which is of little help pinning him > down. Might as > well  be John Jones. > > Frank Brown > Kansas City > > > My husband, Allen, tested with FamilyTreeDNA.com and has 4 > matches there  > (one 25/25, and 3 67/67) I have also uploaded his results to > the Ancestry.com > DNA database, no matches there and no input from other Browns > there. Now > that  more labs are starting to do the testing we need a > place to be able to > compare  the results. > > FamilyTreeDNA has over 300 Browns in their Brown  project. I > haven't been > able to find out how many Ancestry.com has and have no  idea > about the other > labs. Results are no good if you can't compare them.  > FamilyTreeDNA.com also > has a site called www.YSearch.org where anyone from any  lab > can upload > their results and search by matching results or by name. You  > don't have to > have tested at their lab and it is free. I would like to see > if we  can either > get everyone on the list who has tested to upload their > results to  either > that site or Ancestry.com (though I think you have to be a > subscriber  there, > I am) or let us know if there is another site that can be viewed for  > comparison with their DNA. > > For those who have tested it is then  obvious if a line is > yours or not. > What do you all think? > > Carolyn  and Allen Ethridge Brown > > --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Eleanor Prieskorn  > <dalell@embarqmail.com> wrote: > > > From: Eleanor Prieskorn  <dalell@embarqmail.com> > Subject: Re: [BROWN] Plus JohnEbenezerBrown  bor... REPLY to > Ellie and Frank > To: brown@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday,  December 19, 2009, 10:06 AM > > > Infor@familytree.com for  us. > Ellie > > -----Original Message----- > From:  brown-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:brown-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of  Carolyn Brown > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:22 PM > To:  brown@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BROWN] Plus JohnEbenezerBrown bor... REPLY  to > Ellie and Frank > > What lab did you test with and how close are the  matches? > > Carolyn Brown > > --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Carol Brown  Parker > <parkerar@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: > > > From: Carol Brown Parker  <parkerar@nbnet.nb.ca> > Subject: Re: [BROWN] Plus JohnEbenezerBrown  bor... REPLY to > Ellie and Frank > To: brown@rootsweb.com > Date: Friday,  December 18, 2009, 7:22 PM > > > Sorry to hear you are in the same boat  too. Well that > thought has crossed > my > > mind too. Another thought  is > that our surname was not Brown. My ggrandfather oldest son of > John Ebenzer  > Brown told my grandfather > that our surname was really Flanagan and we are  from Dublin > Ireland. So I > have also ticked the name Flanagan > as well as  Brown plus asked for to have any name that > matches with the DNA > of my  brother. > > Carol > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From:  <FBrown726@aol.com> > To: <brown@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday,  December 18, 2009 9:06 PM > Subject: Re: [BROWN] Ancestry.com I use it and it  awesome! Plus > JohnEbenezerBrown bor... > > > >I did the DNA test and  my best matches are with folks with > the names of > > Maxwell and Ramsey. Did  the bull jump the fence? > > > > Frank Brown > > Kansas  City > > > > > > > > I had my brother do the Brown DNA when it  first came out. > No matches  yet > > ....still waiting. > > > >  Carol Brown Parker > > > > Me too; and still no  matches. > >  Ellie > > Warsaw MO. > > > > -----Original Message----- > >  From:  brown-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:brown-bounces@rootsweb.com]  On > > Behalf Of  Carol Brown Parker > > Sent: Friday, December 18,  2009 5:51 PM > > To:  brown@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [BROWN]  Ancestry.com I use it and it awesome!  Plus > > JohnEbenezer > >  Brown born Nov 1822 > > > > Have used it for years. I would  not be  where I am today > without it > > either. > > An example flew to  Toronto > > to  visit my brother spent the day at the archives with him  > and hardly > got > > a > > thing. Upgraded to a newer > > version of  FTM put in the same data could not  believe > what my FTM found > >  in > > Ancestry for me. So > > many documents that lead  to other  ancestors. It is well > worth the yearly > > fee > > > > and I have  just  received > > the FTM 2010 which is great. Very cost  effective. > > > > My only  brick wall is my gggrandfather John  Ebenezer > Brown born Nov 1822 > > also in  census showing as John C.  Brown > > and John E Brown. The first name is the real  one as I found  the > decendant > > with his John's family bible and I took  pictures of  the > pages. It dates > > back > > > > to 1855 and then I made my own  bible  from the pages. My > ggrandfather > said > > he > > > > was  from Dublin > > Ireland and  have found no proof of that but census  says > NY and sometimes > > Vermont. > > > > I had my brother do the  Brown DNA when it first came out. > No  matches yet > > ....still  waiting. > > > > Carol Brown  Parker > >  ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list,   please send an email to > > BROWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word   'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes > > in > > the subject and the body of  the  message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > >  Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.716 / Virus Database:  270.14.113/2573 - > Release  Date: > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BROWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BROWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >