Can anyone cleverer than me find this family in 1851 and 1861 UK censuses? I cannot believe they were not there for either. Adolphe Casimer (or variant) CHOIRON entered Dover from Ostend 2 Mar 1846 Married at All Souls Marylebone (don't ask cos at least 1 daughter married in Synagogue) 24 Oct 1853 just given as full age & of the parish as was his bride (Sarah SACKVILLE) he was a cabinet maker. Birth of son Adolphe Cazmear (or variant) in Aug 1854 baptised twice once in Aug 1854 at All Souls Marylebone res. 12 Bayham Pl (checked in 1851 census and not there) still cabinet maker; rebaptised Jan 1857 at St Pancras Camden same details but father now as carpenter and address is Little King Street South (checked in 1861 not there). Birth of daughter Emma Julia Josephine CHOIRON Pancras reg Mar qtr 1857 but born Dec 1856 baptised Jan 1857 as above with her brother. She married in Paris in Jan 1877 and went on to have a daughter married in Paris in 1895. Birth of second daughter Adelaide Emily Jane CHOIRON reg Mar 1859 Pancras. She married in Paris in Nov 1881 in Synagogue. Birth of third daughter Lydia Isabella Sarah CHOIRON reg Sept qtr 1862 Pancras and died Dec qtr 1862 Pancras. I have tried everything I can think of and am still drawing a blank on both the websites which hold UK censuses and use subsription/pay per view. The JC is not coming up with anything either. So, anyone wanting a Sunday Sleuthing project feel free- PLEASE! Thanks Sherry Landa (Oxford, UK)

Sherry, 1861 they are in Camden Town. One site has CHOVION, the other CHEVRON. RG 9/116 f21 p36 HTH Judy London, UK On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Jewish Admin <Jewish@slanda.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: > Can anyone cleverer than me find this family in 1851 and 1861 UK > censuses? I cannot believe they were not there for either. > > Adolphe Casimer (or variant) CHOIRON entered Dover from Ostend 2 Mar 1846

Hello, Sherry! This is just for you, and it's long! This might be Adolphe's arrival: Name: Adolph Choiron Port of Arrival: Dover, England Arrival Date: 2 Mar 1846 Port of Departure: Ostend, Belgium Ship: Princess Alice Country of Origin/Native of: France Let's look at the marriage: Name: Adolphe Cazimire Choiron Age: Full Age Spouse Name: Sarah Sackville Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 24 Oct 1853 Parish: Langham Borough: Westminster Father Name: Adolphe Letrone Choiron Spouse Father Name: James Sackville Register Type: Parish Register Adolphe was a Cabinet maker. His father was a Tinplate worker [deceased]. James Sackville was a Shoemaker [deceased]. They were married in the __Church of All Souls, and they lived in the All Souls District. Witnesses were Gilbert Sackville and Fred? Minton. Possibly Sarah's birth: Name: Sarah Sackville Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 5 Aug 1833 Father's Name: James Sackville Mother's name: Sarah Sackville Parish or Poor Law Union: St Andrew Holborn Borough: City of London Register Type: Parish Registers Her sister, Jane: Name: Jane Sackville Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1827 Father's Name: James Sackville Mother's name: Sarah Sackville Parish or Poor Law Union: St Andrew Holborn Borough: City of London Register Type: Parish Registers Ancestry "thinks" Jane married Eugene Guillaume, had Adele, Ann, Isabella, Mary, Emile, Rose Augusta and William, and died in 1911. I see the marriage for their daughter in Paris: Name: Adèleeaïde Emelie Jeanne Choiron Marriage Bann Date: 20 nov. 1881 Father's Name: Adolphe Choiron Mother's name: Sarah Sackville Spouse's Name: Eugène Levy So Adeleeaide apparently chose to become Jewish... Their other daughter: Name: Julie Emma Joséphine Choiron Marriage Bann Date: 3 avr. 1877 (3 Apr 1877) Father's Name: Adolphe Casimie Choiron Mother's name: Sarah Choiron Spouse's Name: Fulgence Xavier Savate The same as this daughter? Name: Emma Julia Josephine Choiron Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1857 Registration district: Pancras Inferred County: London Volume: 1b Page: 113 (click to see others on page) The Thomas Family Tree owned by janard645 says Lydia was another daughter: Lydia Isobella Sarah Choiron Birth 10 Jul 1862 in St Pancras, London, England Death Oct 1914 in London, Middlesex, United Kingdom The Thomas Tree says Gilbert and Martha were Sarah Sackville's parents, but they were probably her grandparents. Her father was James. Their son was also named Adolphe Cazimer Choiron, born 24 Aug. 1854. They lived at 13 Bayham Place, Camden Town. Adolphe was a Cabinet Maker. The baptism was at the Lambeth General Lying In Hospital, performed by J.R. or I.R. Baber on Aug. 30. Rev. Barber performed 11 baptisms at that hospital that day. Adolphe and Sarah might not have understood that their son was actually baptized. Here's another baptism for the same son, three years later: Name: Adolph Casimir Choiron Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 16 Jan 1857 Father's Name: Adolph Casimir Choiron Mother's name: Sarah Choiron Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras Borough: Camden Register Type: Parish Registers Adolph was born 24 Aug. 1854. They lived at Little King St. South. Father was a Carpenter. apparently Julia was baptized the same day. Julia was born 16 Dec. 1856. Gilbert Sackville, age 60 in 1841, was a Tailor living in All Souls and Trinity. His wife was Margaret, 55, and children [grandchildren?] at home were: Jane, 14 Sarah, 10 Jane and Sarah were born in the same County [Middlesex], but Gilbert and Margaret were not born in Middlesex. Maybe Gilbert was Sarah's grandfather? Here's a Gilbert who got married in 1860: Name: Gilbert Sackville Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1860 Registration district: Marylebone Inferred County: London Volume Number: 1a Page Number: 531 (click to see others on page) He married Isabella Budd. Here's Isabella Budd, who married Gilbert Sackville in 1860, in Langham, Westminster. Isabella's father was Charles Budd. Gilbert's father was James Sackville. Name: Isabella Budd Spouse Name: Gilbert Sackville Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 23 Jan 1860 Parish: Langham Borough: Westminster Father Name: Charles Budd Spouse Father Name: James Sackville Register Type: Parish Register Here they were in 1861: Name: Isabella Sackville Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Gilbert Sackville Gender: Female Where born: Calne, Wiltshire, England Civil parish: St Marylebone Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Registration district: Marylebone Sub-registration district: All Souls ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 410 Piece: 66 Folio: 108 Page Number: 62 Household Members: Name Age Gilbert Sackville 82 [It might say 52.] Tailor. Born in Northumberland, Alnwick Isabella Sackville 50 Born in Witts, Calne Their address looks like 22 Wicks [or Wells] Mews. Here is a death for Gilbert Sackville in 1868. It has his age as 89,. Name: Gilbert Sackville Record Type: Death Estimated Death Date: 1868 Age: 89 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1779 Parish or Poor Law Union: Saint Marylebone Borough: Westminster Register Type: Parish Register He died in Ward 20B of the Workhouse Nov. 23, 1868, and was buried by the Workhouse. Gilbert had entered the Workhouse 11 April 1864. Isabella Sackville entered the Workhouse 16 June 1865, and died in London Dec. 22, 1868. She was buried by McDix [possibly McDickens, 114 Cleveland St.] Here's a James Sackville who married in 1840: Name: James Sackville Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1840 Registration district: Pancras Inferred County: London Volume Number: 1 Page Number: 241 (click to see others on page) Either: Eleanor Beetson Ruth New or this Marriage registry: Name: James Sackville Age: Full Age Spouse Name: Eliza Luck Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 18 Jan 1840 Parish: St Pancras Parish Chapel Borough: Camden Father Name: Galvert Sackville [Gilbert] a Tailor Spouse Father Name: Wm Quinlon [Dead] Register Type: Parish Register James was a Widower, a Shoe Maker, who resided in ? A death at the same time: ??? Name: James Sackville Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1840 Registration district: Marylebone Inferred County: London Volume: 1 Page: 146 (click to see others on page) There was a Lord Sackville who was a big shot. His wife was Elizabeth, and they lived in Knole House in Sevenoaks, West Kent in 1881. Lord Sackville was born about 1821. He was probably Mortimer Sackville-west, a Baron, and Elizabeth was probably Elizabeth Faber. Name: Elizabeth Faber Gender: Female Birth Date: abt 1841 Age: 32 Father's Name: Charles Wilson Faber Spouse's Name: Mortimer Sackville-West Spouse's Age: 52 Spouse's Father's Name: George John Sackville-West Marriage Date: 12 Jun 1873 Marriage Place: Northaw, Hertfordshire, England There was a Sackville Gallery, fine Arts Dealers, at 28 Sackville St. in 1907- There was a Sackville Laundry at 47 Brook gn. [Green?] in 1907. Another James Sackville b. 1806 in England, came to Ontario Canada by 1861: Name: James Sackville Age: 65 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806 Gender: Male Birth Place: England Residence District: Northumberland West Residence Location: Hamilton Township Ethnic Origin: English Religion: Church of Christ Occupation: Farmer & Sawyer Division: 3 Microfilm Roll: C-9983 Page: 1 Head of Household Comment: This person is listed as a head of household. His death: Name: James Sackville Death Date: 10 Apr 1879 Death County or District: Northumberland Age: 73 Gender: Male Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806 Birth Location: England Linda Wolfe Kelley Portland, OR