Dear Listers David Jacobs ( Litzen/Letson and most probably LIETZEN from West Prussia ) who is the insane ribbon stealer is my 5 x great grandfather. My distant cousins and I have no idea when he became insane other than in the Old Bailey Trial of 1801 when his son Henry Jacobs ( my 4x great grandfather) said he had been insane for a number of years. What is sad ( but given the times not unsurprising) is that he got 1 year in Newgate dying in 1809. You can imagine the treatment and conditions of 'ordinary'prisoners in Newgate early 1800s let alone those for an insane old man! The trade of our Jacobs line including David was glass. They were glass dealers, cutters, engravers and manufacturers and had premises in Artillery Passage, Mansell Street, Charles Street and Crown Street amongst others. We have a large collection of trade data on the families from the National Archives, London Gazette as well as trade directories. Those of you who have been following Debbie's postings know she is one of my distant cousins and our related families include Hart/Levy/Nerwich amongst many others. Debbie and I are due to meet at the Society of Genealogists in London where I first discovered my David Jacobs lines in the Hyamson collection. We hope to discover much more! Dr Phillip Kirby Norfolk England

Hi Phillip, What an interesting, though tragic, snippet of social history in your account of your ancestor ! He may simply have had dementia, poor man. And jailed for stealing a ribbon ! I suppose it was thought better for society to keep such people off the streets, though there must have been many on them, unable to receive proper care or shelter. I wonder how our values now would seem to the average person of that not-so-distant past. Eve Richardson (in Toronto, Canada, but wondering where in Norfolk you are as I spend my summers there.)

My great great grandfather Aaron HART was also a glass cutter, engraver, glass manufacaturer etc at different times. He lived in Goulston Street from about 1841 possibly earlier 1823 according toone of the trade directories. There is also a HART glass manufacturer in Petticoat lane in 1830. I wonder if Phillip Kirby wouldhave anything on Aaron HART or even any connection. I wouldbe very grateful to know. In his will it was written as Aaron Brnett HART. With best wishes, Louise ----- Original Message ----- From: "phillip KIRBY" <phillip.kirby@ntlworld.com> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] GT SYNAGOGUE RECORDS PRE 1791 > Dear Listers > David Jacobs ( Litzen/Letson and most probably LIETZEN from West Prussia ) > who is the insane ribbon stealer is my 5 x great grandfather. My distant > cousins and I have no idea when he became insane other than in the Old > Bailey Trial of 1801 when his son Henry Jacobs ( my 4x great grandfather) > said he had been insane for a number of years. What is sad ( but given the > times not unsurprising) is that he got 1 year in Newgate dying in 1809. > You can imagine the treatment and conditions of 'ordinary'prisoners in > Newgate early 1800s let alone those for an insane old man! > The trade of our Jacobs line including David was glass. They were glass > dealers, cutters, engravers and manufacturers and had premises in > Artillery Passage, Mansell Street, Charles Street and Crown Street amongst > others. > We have a large collection of trade data on the families from the National > Archives, London Gazette as well as trade directories. > Those of you who have been following Debbie's postings know she is one of > my distant cousins and our related families include Hart/Levy/Nerwich > amongst many others. Debbie and I are due to meet at the Society of > Genealogists in London where I first discovered my David Jacobs lines in > the Hyamson collection. We hope to discover much more! > Dr Phillip Kirby > Norfolk > England > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: > 26/01/2008 15:45 > >