I came across what looked like an interesting twist on these stories while doing my research. In going through Ontario births, I found a case where a non-Jewish farmer's daughter had a child out of wedlock. Judging by the name it appeared that the father of the child was a Jew. Later, going through the old records of Holy Blossom Temple, here in Toronto, I found a man who appears to have been that baby, called to aliyah in the synagogue. It interested me on a couple of counts, 1) that a relationship had been maintained between the father and child, and 2) that a child of a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother was accepted at that time by the congregation. Eve Richardson (wishing it looked less like winter outside)

Dear All I have been following this thread with interest. My story is sad but , as far as I can tell, not comforting. My g grandfather, Joseph Woolf was a Jew and orphaned as a child of six. In 1865, when he was 21, he married Elizabeth Jane Holmes ( his landlady's daughter) at Marylebone Register Office. His grandmother, Alice Woolf, died in 1876 in her 101st year, by which time Joseph and Elizabeth had several children. Alice lived in Southwark, her two daughters Sophia and Maria who placed the notices of her death (thank you, Jewish Victorian and the correspondent who discovered this for me) lived in Sheffied St WC and Kennington Park Road SE. Joseph and his young family lived in Boston Place Islington. Idly speculating on whether Alice would have known her great grandchildren (they all lived in London and not too far apart), or Sophia and Maria would have known their great nephews and great nieces (amongst whom was my grandfather) I now understand that this was very unlikely as when someone 'married out' the service of the dead would be read and from that time onward they would be dead to their religion and to their family. Whilst intellectually I can understand this, on an emotional level I find it hard. Can anyone please tell me how common this was in the 19th century? Best wishes Rosemary (in grey and drizzly North Yorkshire) Researching WOOLF, JEWELL, MORDECAI > > > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRITISH-JEWRY- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message Rosemary A Rees 3 College Fold Rathmell Settle North Yorkshire BD24 0LQ

rosemary wrote: <I now understand that this was very unlikely as when someone 'married out' the service of the dead would be read and from that time onward they would be dead to their religion and to their family.> As others have said, this would depend entirely on the family. In my family it seems to have been not unusual for someone to marry "out", and relationships appear to have been maintained even several generations ago. My gr grandparents were cousins, but after my gr grandmother died my gr grandpa took up with a woman who probably wasn't a Jew. My grandmother was also married to a cousin but left him for my non-Jewish grandfather and was still part of her Jewish family. I never heard of it being an issue. One of my gr grandpa's sisters was apparently something of a black sheep, but I suspect that wasn't so much because she married out, as that she married a man several years younger than herself, he barely out of the cradle. They appear in a census record living together before they were married. I suspect she got knocked up and married down, as she came from a "respectable" family of opticians and he was a butcher. A cousin of a generation earlier married out, but it is evident that he maintained close ties with his brother, an officer and briefly president of is synagogue. Eve Richardson (Who worked out that a gr gr aunt in another branch of her family was the black sheep because she married "out" - that is, she married a Catholic instead of C of E)

Hi Rosemary, It depends entirely on the individual family how they treat people who "married out". Mine seemed to have been fairly understanding in this matter, but I also guess it may have something to do with them being dirt poor English Jews. They clung together like limpets, still do. My ggreat aunt Sophie Sloman married out in 1857, and living with her at the time of the 1861 census is her brother Moss Sloman, he is apprenticed to Sophie's gentile husband as a shoemaker. Cheers, Su in Armidale NSW On 23/02/2008, at 8:45 PM, Rosemary Rees wrote: > Dear All > > I have been following this thread with interest. > > My story is sad but , as far as I can tell, not comforting. <snip> > > I now understand that this was very unlikely as when > someone 'married out' the service of the dead would be read and from > that time onward they would be dead to their religion and to their > family. Whilst intellectually I can understand this, on an emotional > level I find it hard. Can anyone please tell me how common this was > in the 19th century? > > Best wishes > > Rosemary