<there is a book which records the BMD of the Western Synagogue, it may be called Records of the Western Synagogue 1761 - 1932> According to Google Books, there are 3 copies in the UK, at the libraries of Oxford and Cambridge Universities and at the Institute of Historical Research, London. Details at: http://worldcat.org/oclc/10669788&tab=holdings?loc=united+kingdom#tabs Inter-library loan may be a possibility although it could be difficult if the book is rare or valuable. Beverly Bergman Camberley UK

Debbie Next time you are trying to find a book title try looking at www.copac.ac.uk - this is a combined catalogue of academic libraries, including British Library. It tells you in which of the libraries the title is held. I suppose you sometimes leave your wet and windy island? ;) There seem to be two likely authors: Records of the Western Synagogue, 1761-1932. [With], The Western synagogue : some materials for its history / Matthias Levy. 1932. Records of the Western Synagogue 1761-1932 / by Cecil Roth. 1932. Actually I wonder if this indicates two authors working on the same book............ If you put Western Synagogue into the COPAC search box you'll find a whole lot more books about it. Sometimes I do this and then use the bibliographic details to search the second hand book market on the web. I've been to the Brompton Cemetery a couple of times - in Fulham. I could be entirely wrong but I thought this was the Western Synagogue Cemetery. Raymond Montanjees of JGSGB is the expert. Best wishes Hazel Hazel Dakers, London UK www.hazeldakers.co.uk <http://www.hazeldakers.co.uk/> Researching: NORDEN (London & South Africa); HEIMANN (Luegde, Germany and South Africa); GOLD (Zgierz and Lodz, Poland), BIRNBAUM (Zgierz and Lodz, Poland) I do believe there is a book which records the BMD of the Western Synagogue, it may be called Records of the Western Synagogue 1761 - 1932, but I don't know if that has burials and early marriages in it etc. Was a little confused when looking it up on google as one site says it is A history of the synagogue, including an inventory of vital records but no actual records or abstracts.

Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Records of the Western Synagogue > Dear Debbie, I have a copy of the Great Synagogue marriage register 1791- > 1850. There are plenty of Jacobs there if you need a look up. > Thanks to your detective work finding my GGgramdmother Catherine was alia > Kitty Jacobs before her first marraige to Jonas, who I thought was Israel, > Silver, I have now managed to send for the cetificate after two days of trying to get a new pass word which they refused to accept. I then tried phoning and after two days of holdng on, I spoke to a very nice lady who told me that it costs £7 for aa certificate on the net and £8.50 on the phone. Dont depair listers if you dont get through at first, try late in the evenng as they are open till 8 at the Certificate services at ONS.. Louise. > > >

Hi, Underneath this lady's photo it says: "This female, whose name I don't know, but who looks very much like my Grandfather. I think she could be one of his siblings. She would be nee WOOLF. The photo was amongst other family photo's belonging to my late Mum." Im sorry I cant help identify the lady but I would like to tell you that after my mother died, I collected together all the photos in the house. I went on a "pilgrimage" to Leeds and visited various relatives Id never met. I took with me loads of photos and at each home showed them the photos I believed belong to their family. There was a photo of a gentleman who bore such a strong resemblance to my father's brother. At the house of my mother's cousin, she picked out that photo (which Id put on a separate pile believing it belonged to my father's family) the lady said "oh, that's a photo of my grandfather"!!! Moral of the story - show as many photos to our seniors, and not to expect the person to turn up in the family we thought they would.... Another nice story that I had on that trip was when I visited a 2nd cousin - his late father and my mother were first cousins through his father's side. I shared some photos with him, he picked one out and on the back it said "to Auntie Sarah, Love Celia and Howard" - Auntie Sarah being my grandmother. He exclaimed: that's my mother and I. Apparently his mother sent my grandmother that photo. How amazing. "Celia and Howard" had lost all contact with Howard's paternal family through a family disagreement. Howard grew up almost never knowing his father's parents and family. What a shame. Regards Angie Israel Searching: RAYKH-ZELIGMAN/RICHMAN, Stakliskes, Lithuania/Leeds COHEN, Sakiai, Lithuania/Leeds MAGIDOWITZ, Jurbarkas, Lithuania/Leeds KASSIMOFF, Rezekne, Latvia/Leeds ----- Original Message ---- From: Sherry with Sky <SherryELanda@sky.com> To: "BRITISH-JEWRY@rootsweb.com" <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 4, 2008 8:02:14 PM Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] ADMIN Digital View Carole Preece would like help to identify the woman in the photo which has been uploaded to Digital View tonight. http://www.british-jewry.org.uk/New%20Member%20Area/Digital%20View/digitalview.htm Please take a look in case you know who she is. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Debbie I understood that the records for the Western Synagogue London were destroyed WW2 as was the cemetery. Can other listers confirm if that is correct. Dr Phillip Kirby Norfolk England

Hi There I do believe there is a book which records the BMD of the Western Synagogue, it may be called Records of the Western Synagogue 1761 - 1932, but I don't know if that has burials and early marriages in it etc. Was a little confused when looking it up on google as one site says it is A history of the synagogue, including an inventory of vital records but no actual records or abstracts. I know someone has got book of early records of marriages at the Western Synagogue (1826ish) but I don't know if they would have got it from this book as they knew the fathers name. If anyone knows about this book or another and it is the one that has the Births, deaths and marriages in it can they tell me where I can buy it? I have tried googling it but it doesn't appear for sale anymore. I am really interested in deaths as well as marriages. Thanks Debbie Bozkurt Outer Hebrides WET!

Carole Preece would like help to identify the woman in the photo which has been uploaded to Digital View tonight. http://www.british-jewry.org.uk/New%20Member%20Area/Digital%20View/digitalview.htm Please take a look in case you know who she is. Thanks Sherry

Dear Jackye, The Foll are taken from GS Registers but are Very confusing (to me at least) GSM 225/33 Benjamin Nelson - Catherine Solomon(Widow). Her Hebr name Keila and father Simon? Problem is until I can trace pervios Marrige(s) records I cannot locate her Maiden name. Going on time frame I would gather that both bride and groom where born Abt 1800. Next comes the Nelson side and again GS RECORDS are showing grooms father as Nathan Nelson.(no civil records seem to matchfor conf of this) Nathan was father to the foll; Benjamin Alexander Moses Solomon Elizabeth Barnet Henry Louisa Isaac Lewis The only other info I have and am not sure how to proceed further . According to an email from Angela ther was a Business run by Nathan at 22 Wentwoth St. It appears that the only child of Benjamin And Catherine was Philip Marr Welcome Solomon GS 18 jan 1854 at 41 Chiswell St EC1. Cannot Find any ownwership of that address either. Family of Philip and Welcome Moved to Melbourne in 1859. Hope you may be able to make something of all of this. Peter Nelson- Sydney.

Sorry David, somehow this didint get opened. thank you for your advice, best wishes, Louise ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L Levy" <David.Levy@umb.edu> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] voice recording genealogy book > Don't get your hopes up about being able to generate text from a digital > voice recorder - I sometimes use voice recognition software when a > disk/nerve condition flares up in my left arm (the best is Dragon > Naturally speaking), and with some practice you can get decent accuracy > - but it's much harder to get good results playing back from a recorder. > > David Levy > > > > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1189 - Release Date: > 18/12/2007 21:40 > >

It also happens that a male child would be sent to live with a childless family as their SON , thereby avoiding the draft...early 1800s. So I am told with various family examples. Often on the Polish or Lithuanian Jewish Gen lists we see a "servant" with a Jewish sounding surname , often a very young teenager, living with a family. Exactly what that "servant" meant is not necessarily the same in every case. Might be really a "mother's help" a relative or a future bride of one of the sons. Why didn't we ask questions when we could? Ros ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Bozkurt" <debbieinscotland@googlemail.com> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 11:32 PM Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Childless couples and 'adopted' Nieces > Has anybody else came across this or knows if this is often a pattern? > > In this instance I have a niece that from at least the age of 12, > lives with her aunt and uncle who are childless, until her marriage. I > have had some young females living with elderly grandmother maybe to > look after them. The niece I have just found, parents were alive and > well and the remainder of her siblings lived with the parents. > > Can anyone throw some light, was this acceptable pattern of behavior > in the families of the time. The family she came from were not poor so > I think they could afford to 'feed' another child. > > Thanks > > Debbie Bozkurt Outer Hebrides - Snow all day now rapid melt down yuk! > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The Saga and brick walls go on! Sarah Catherine Solomon (known as Kate) married Benjamin Nelson on 07 jul 1824. According to the GS registers married as a widow. I know there was one child at least Philip Benjamin Nelson Born Around 1837. Does any one know of or have any ideas on other chidren of the marriage or indeed who the former husband(s) might have been?. I have been searhing for some clues on tis for a number of years now, all to no avail. Hoping you may be able to help. Peter Nelson Sydney.

Dear Philip, There was a Henry Nelson (age 7 months) died in Tasmania in 1844 the son of Benjamin Nelson. David Alexander Puycelsi France least Philip Benjamin Nelson Born Around 1837. Does any one know of or have any ideas on other chidren of the marriage or indeed who the former husband(s) might have been?. I have been searhing for some Peter Nelson Sydney. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now.

Peter, Maybe I missed the original post but this doesn't tell me what you've already done to find more information. It would be helpful to also know more about the family. Jackye Sullins > The Saga and brick walls go on! > Sarah Catherine Solomon (known as Kate) married Benjamin Nelson on 07 jul > 1824. > According to the GS registers married as a widow. I know there was one > child at least Philip Benjamin Nelson Born Around 1837. > Does any one know of or have any ideas on other chidren of the marriage or > indeed who the former husband(s) might have been?. I have been searhing > for some clues on tis for a number of years now, all to no avail. > Hoping you may be able to help. > Peter Nelson > Sydney.

< I have a niece that from at least the age of 12, lives with her aunt and uncle who are childless, until her marriage. I have had some young females living with elderly grandmother maybe to look after them. The niece I have just found, parents were alive and well and the remainder of her siblings lived with the parents.> Hi Debbie, I can't comment on patterns/behaviours of "the time" (you didn't specify a period), however I don't believe such situations are necessarily peculiar to a particular time or place. For example, my mother was raised by her grandmother even though she was the elder of only two children of the marriage. The reason in this instance evolved over time as her younger sister needed regular trips to hospital for therapy (she'll be 85 in March and still going strong). Anyway, mum's grandmother assumed her care in this difficult period. By the time my grandmother was in a position to resume full responsibility my great-grandmother had become so attached to my mother she would not let her go! Other contemporary examples I have noted include the placing of a "difficult" or talented child with an obliging childless couple or "empty nesters" with the time available to provide extra supervision/guidance, the "adoption" of an illegitimate child by childless family members or whose own children had died in infancy. Companion and helpmate to elderly grandparents or ailing relative is also a common theme. The possibilities are endless and not confined by social class. I bet those relatives had no idea how fascinating and sometimes frustrating their particular domestic arrangments would be to their descendants. I hope you sort it out. Cheers, Babs O'Connor Penrith, Australia P.S. How are the mice?

Hi Miriam, I noticed a Martha FRIEND on the Leeds Burial List, http://www.jewishgen.org/JCR-UK/Leeds.htm date of death 21 March 1901, aged 60. Maybe she was divorced and not deceased prior to Henry's second marriage? Regards, Sonya Mitchell/ANSELL New Zealand

Can be a number of reasons, Debbie, but yes, it was a practice (how common I don't know). As you say, the aunt and uncle might have wanted help in the house. The parents might have been struggling to house and feed another child. The child might have obtained work which was easier to get to from her aunt & uncle's etc. Sherry On 02/02/2008, Debbie Bozkurt <debbieinscotland@googlemail.com> wrote: > Has anybody else came across this or knows if this is often a pattern? > > In this instance I have a niece that from at least the age of 12, > lives with her aunt and uncle who are childless, until her marriage. I > have had some young females living with elderly grandmother maybe to > look after them. The niece I have just found, parents were alive and > well and the remainder of her siblings lived with the parents.

My paterna; great grandmother Catherine was married three times. I am trying to find more about h er and h er e arlier marraiges.. I believe her name before marraige was JACOBS or ISRAEL (both are mentioned at different times). She was born in Poland according to the census. Her first marriage, of which I cannot find a trace, was to Israel Silver about 1843 according to an 1851 census that was kindley s ent to me by June Solntseff, but which I cant find on check on the net. Can anyone find this for me please. I think it might have been in England as they seem to have had a son Jacob soon afterwards. The census gave 3 Partridge Court, off Gravel Lane . There lived Israel SILVER widower aged 35 With him was Catherine ( presumed to be his wife) aged 28 Jacob aged 7 Sarah aged 2 and Elizabeth, mother ( of whom?) a widow aged 50 from Poland. I cannot find a record of this marriage but did find a death that might be Israel's in 1852 perhaps.. In 1859 Catherine was widowed and married Abraham Prince.(My great grandfather) His first marraige had been at the Great Synagogue, He was the son of Zeev Woolf Prince and his first marraige was to Rebecca Barnett daughter of Joseph ha Cohen on 13 September 1832 There is a Jane Prince who might have been born about 1855?,Eva Prince, my grandmother and later Abraham Prince, who was born after his father's death. In 1871 Catherine is still Prince but the Head of the household at Harrow alley, with Jacob 24, Jane 16 Eva 10 Rachel 7 and Abraham 5. I wonder if the Jacob was from her first marriage. In 1877 Catherine married Marks Wartantz at Princess Street, which I presume is the Princelet Street Synagogue , In 1881 census Catherine called herself Catherine Marks and once again was a widow and a redeemer of pledges.There is no trace of Marks Wartantz dying anywhere. Catherine died in 1904 in Somerset East where her daughter Eva had gone with her husband Lewis Cohen. I would love to know more about Catherine and which were her chldren and which inherited from her various husbands who seemed all to be widowers. Has anyone any suggestions please and any ways to disentangle people Begt wishes, Louise.

Has anybody else came across this or knows if this is often a pattern? In this instance I have a niece that from at least the age of 12, lives with her aunt and uncle who are childless, until her marriage. I have had some young females living with elderly grandmother maybe to look after them. The niece I have just found, parents were alive and well and the remainder of her siblings lived with the parents. Can anyone throw some light, was this acceptable pattern of behavior in the families of the time. The family she came from were not poor so I think they could afford to 'feed' another child. Thanks Debbie Bozkurt Outer Hebrides - Snow all day now rapid melt down yuk!

-> The interesting thing is that on the two census in which he was with his > 'wife' he is down as being born in Carmarthen Wales, as far as my research > as shown there were no settlement of Jews in Wales at that time, so he > either wasn't a Jew then or his parents were travelers. Debbie - I have just been engaged in correspondence about a family of Camarthen Jews. Their name was LAZARUS. I don't know much about them as they don't belong to "my" tribe of Devon LAZARUS, but it illustrates that there were Jews there. And for sure plenty in other parts as well (I had school mates who were Welsh Jews). Eve Richardson in Toronto, where we just had another big winter storm

Sorry Debbie it is Philip Moses could be a transcribers error. May not also. Mary > I wonder if anyone could help me, been stuck on this puzzle for a number of > years. > > My great great grandfather was Philip PHILLIPS also known on census as James > PHILLIPS, Philip J PHILLIPS and on two of his children's marriage Phineas > PHILLIPS. On his children's birth certificate mother's name is Ann MOSS or > Annie MOSS. Philip PHILLIPS (name on death certificate) died 1889 Mile End > Old Town, London age 45 (may be a few years too young). In 1901 Annie/Ann > reverted to the name Hannah PHILLIPS, I found her on the Jewish Hospital > Records as Hannah PHILLIPS. > > The interesting thing is that on the two census in which he was with his > 'wife' he is down as being born in Carmarthen Wales, as far as my research > as shown there were no settlement of Jews in Wales at that time, so he > either wasn't a Jew then or his parents were travelers. > > I have never been able to find a marriage for them and I have tried, I can > only assume they either didn't get married, or the names were spelt wrong so > I can't find them. I had an idea if I could find their burial I could then > maybe find out parents names etc. > > Three of the children married in the East London Synagogue, so they were > brought up Jewish. I found out that the East London Synagogue was a United > Synagogue so I searched cemetery by cemetery by Philip PHILLIPS and Phineas > PHILLIPS nothing. > > Can anyone advise me if they married around the Mile End, Whitechapel area > what synagogue would have been the likely place, prob. after 1861 but before > 1868. Do you know, if the family were affiliated to the East London > Synagogue where the cemetery would have been, the East London Synagogue > opened in 1889. > > Hannah PHILLIPS (Annie PHILLIPs on death certificate) died in 1915 Merchant > Street, Poplar, aged 71 (think that maybe a few years too young from earlier > census) > > I know its a lot to ask but every so often I try and see if something extra > turns up in the hope one day I can find my great great grandparents > ancestry. > > Thanks for reading > > Debbie Bozkurt Outer Hebrides Snowing and Cold > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message