I am looking for the Burial of Elizabeth ISAACS in the hope I can find her Hebrew name to prove beyond doubt a family connection to the JACOBS. Elizabeth died 10th September 1860, 45 Bankside Southwark. Her son Moss ISAACS whom she was living with was a member of the Western Synagogue and paid for it to be refurbished in 1870. Some of her grandchildren were buried in Brompton, i.e. Charles Isaacs, 1874 as per Gen Pals. Can you advise me whether it was likely she would be buried through the Western Synagogue, I think that they used Brompton Cemetery, if she was is there any likelyhood of her stone still being read. I know Angela is doing some work on the Brompton Cemetery and I don't mind being patient if there is a chance Elizabeth will be amongst the stones but I am trying to work out how people from Southwark got to the Western Synagogue every Sabbath without taking carriages etc, was there no South of Thames Synagogues she could have been buried in? Thanks Debbie Bozkurt Outer Hebrides (dreary old day, cold and damp) www.jacobstree.co.uk

Thank you Bill and Listers for your help with Hannah Jacobson sister of my g. grandfather Abraham Prince. It filled in some gaps which I hadn't managed to find in the census etc. It is so sad in that family that all the siblings and in law siblings seemed to go off to other countries to make their lives and the family just broke up into fragments. But this is our story. One of Mark and Hannah's sons, in the 1871 census was born in Australia . I wonder if they went to there and then returned. I would like to explore that and would like to know whether there are ships manifestos etc like the Ellis Island ones. Has anyone any suggestions?With many thanks, Louise--- From: "Bill Joel" <wjoel@optonline.net> >

Dear Listers, I have just discovered from Free BMD a Rachel Prince who married a Charles Freed(same name as the letter from Dave Freed received in the 1940s by my father) I then found Rachel in the 1891 Census living in North Block? Aldgate Parish with her son Henry aged 3 born in New York. I then found Rachel in the Ellis Island Manifesto on the St. Louis departing from Southampton April 2 1898 and with her according to the ships Manifesto was Charles Freed 45 a Cattleman, American Citizen. Last residence 2 Stepney Green, London . Henry aged 10, Pearl aged 2 Abraham aged 9 and David an infant. All American citizens returning home on ticket 22011 to 430 East 86th Street ( but which town,/ Baltimore or New york). Can anyone tell me if I am again barking up the wrong tree and how do I find more about them in United States records? I wonder if the David Freed, is Dave Freed of U.S.S Cushing who wrote on that scrap of paper to Pearl, who now I realise might have been his sister? Now I am off to see if any the children were born in England. I would love to take this line down. Is anyone descended from this Freed family ? Best wishes, Louise

Dear Listers, in my quest for more family of Catherine Prince, my great grandmother, I followed her daughter in the 1871 census, Rachel Prince and may have found her marriage( or someone with that name) to Charles Freed in 1886. She is down in the 1881 census as married with one son, Henry 3 born in New York USA. Now Dave Freed who wrote to my Aunts about the family from New York, just could be related to her. On the scrap of paper of the letter he sent it mentions he lived at 3524 third Avenue, New York but was on a ship coming to London, U.S.S. Cushing C.O G>P.O. This letter appeared to be to someone called Pear, as I mentioned before and he signs it, your loving cousin. So could he have been a son of Rachel Prince , married Freed and possibly born after 1891 census.? Can anyone tell me how I can f ind out more about this boat and track Dave Freed or family in New York. I have Ancestry but not the American version. With many thanks for all the help I have had so far, Louise (London)

Hello, Judy Margaret's suggestion of Hethersett, Norfolk, (which, incidentally, reached my Inbox about 36 hours before your original enquiry!!) does appear quite likely to be your answer, although proving it could be difficult! You've obviously discovered that your Thomas FORSTER died before the 1861 census was taken, so there's no help there. And you've probably also viewed the 1841 census, which records exactly the same family members as the 1851, 10 years younger but without their birthplaces! A possible clue comes from the 1801 - yes, 1801! - census for Hethersett "... one of the few places in the county (Norfolk) for which a census before 1841 containing names survives": see http://www.origins.org.uk/genuki/NFK/places/h/hethersett/census1801.shtml . This records a household headed by a Thos. FORSTER, comprising 2 males and one female; details were a little thin on the ground in those very early censuses! Were these, possibly, father and infant son, both named Thomas, and, of course, their wife/mother? This could be checked by reference to the Parish Registers, but could you accept that as conclusive proof that the Hethersett Thomas junior, and your Thomas, are one and the same? Have you considered that, given Thomas's rather unusual occupation, any surviving trade directories for the 1820s/30s might help to establish at least a pre-St. Pancras residential link with the general area in Norfolk? Mike Joseph (in bright and sunny - well, it was during the daytime! - but very cold, Ashford, Middlesex, UK

Hi Mike, Thank you so much for an extremely informative and detailed response to my request. Your suggestion of looking at the trade directories was excellent - I had forgotten about them. Unfortunately I cannot send off for a death record as the name is too common. I will let you know if I make any progress. If I can be of any help to you in Los Angeles please let me know. Kind regards, Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Joseph" <member@emmpeejay.freeserve.co.uk> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] [BRITISH JEWRY] Placename on 1851 census > Hello, Judy > Margaret's suggestion of Hethersett, Norfolk, (which, incidentally, > reached my Inbox about 36 hours before your original enquiry!!) does > appear quite likely to be your answer, although proving it could be > difficult! You've obviously discovered that your Thomas FORSTER died > before the 1861 census was taken, so there's no help there. And you've > probably also viewed the 1841 census, which records exactly the same > family members as the 1851, 10 years younger but without their > birthplaces! > A possible clue comes from the 1801 - yes, 1801! - census for Hethersett > "... one of the few places in the county (Norfolk) for which a census > before 1841 containing names survives": see > http://www.origins.org.uk/genuki/NFK/places/h/hethersett/census1801.shtml > . This records a household headed by a Thos. FORSTER, comprising 2 males > and one female; details were a little thin on the ground in those very > early censuses! Were these, possibly, father and infant son, both named > Thomas, and, of course, their wife/mother? This could be checked by > reference to the Parish Registers, but could you accept that as conclusive > proof that the Hethersett Thomas junior, and your Thomas, are one and the > same? > Have you considered that, given Thomas's rather unusual occupation, any > surviving trade directories for the 1820s/30s might help to establish at > least a pre-St. Pancras residential link with the general area in Norfolk? > Mike Joseph (in bright and sunny - well, it was during the daytime! - but > very cold, Ashford, Middlesex, UK > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 05:36 PM 2/14/2008, you wrote: >Thirdly, does anyone know anything about the family of Hannah Prince married >to Mark Jacobson. They lived in Mildmay Park according to the JC archives, >but I wonder if anyone is descended from them. I think Hannah was the sister >of my great grandfather Abraham Prince as they were both married in the >Great Synagogue and their father's were the same Zeev Wolf Prince. According to the 1871 British Census, they lived at 13 Crispin Street, Christ Church, Spitalfields, London, UK. Name Age Occupation Where born <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&indiv=try&h=12735585>Mark Jacobson 54 Furrier Prussia <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&indiv=try&h=12735586>Hannah Jacobson 50 Prussia <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&indiv=try&h=12735587>Jacob Jacobson 17 Assistant to father Melbourne, Australia <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&indiv=try&h=12735588>Eva Jacobson 14 Scholar London <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&indiv=try&h=12735589>Leah Jacobson 9 Scholar London <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&indiv=try&h=12735590>Helen Parry 19 Servant In 1881 Census, they did live at 33 Mildmay Park, but the kids are grown and have left the nest. Neither seem to be listed in the 1891 or 1901 censuses. FreeBMD shows a Rebecca Hannah Jacobson died 4th quarter 1885 in Islington, where Hannah and Mark lived in 1881. She was born about 1820. Mark Jacobson's death is listed as 2nd quarter 1890, also in Islington, with birth about 1816.

Dear Listers, now hat I am sorting out my G. grandmother Kitty or Catherine Prince, or Silver or Wartantz or Israel or Jacobs or Marks, I need to get some marriage authorisations to get more clues. Does anyone know if these exist for the year 1859 ,1878 1877 and 1843. Possibly 1814 and is it Charles Tucker at the Beth Din that I have to get them from?. Another question. Where are the ships manifestos for boats going to SO. Africa from London about 1900- 1904? Thirdly, does anyone know anything about the family of Hannah Prince married to Mark Jacobson. They lived in Mildmay Park according to the JC archives, but I wonder if anyone is descended from them. I think Hannah was the sister of my great grandfather Abraham Prince as they were both married in the Great Synagogue and their father's were the same Zeev Wolf Prince,. With many thanks, Louise With best wishes, Louise

In case it helps, this is the entry from the official PRO street index for Gravel Lane in 1861. Unfortunately there is the usual duplicate and inconsequential numbering to contend with. Gravel Lane, Harrow Alley nos. 4-8 RG9-210 folios 79-80 Ropers Buildings, nos. 9-15 RG9-210 folios 78-79 nos. 108-120 RG9-210 folios 80-83 no other numbers exist Gravel Lane (Lower), Houndsditch nos. 1-7 RG9-210 folios 67-68 nos. 26-30 RG9-210 folios 68-69 no other numbers exist Regards Elly On 14/02/2008, Angellza@aol.com <Angellza@aol.com> wrote: > Listers with subscriptions to the provider whose name begins with F might > like to know that a large section of GRAVEL LANE Aldgate has been incorrectly > indexed as GRANT LANE > This applies to house numbers 4- 8, 108-113 and 115 -120 > House 114 had been correctly indexed > Haven't found the remaining numbers yet > Angela

Hello BJs, Unfortunately my request for any information on this man, two weeks ago, and his wife Rachel Lebowitz (or spelling variant) fell on stony ground. Have now learned that the family were at 2 St Agnes Terrace, Hackney until 1932 and later, certainly up to 1940 at 14 Banbury Road, Hackney E9. Hyman Berkovitch died 1941/42. Of their six children Esther married Stoppler, Lily married Alfred Posner, and Milly married Joseph Pecyna. Any bells ringing this time please? Alan Booth

Thanks Elly I am sure the references will be helpful to subscribers to this particular provider . My own reason for posting was simply to alert people to the indexing errors Regards Angela In case it helps, this is the entry from the official PRO street index for Gravel Lane in 1861. Unfortunately there is the usual duplicate and inconsequential numbering to contend with.

Listers with subscriptions to the provider whose name begins with F might like to know that a large section of GRAVEL LANE Aldgate has been incorrectly indexed as GRANT LANE This applies to house numbers 4- 8, 108-113 and 115 -120 House 114 had been correctly indexed Haven't found the remaining numbers yet Angela

Su Solomon <susol@westnet.com.au> wrote: Transcription of marriage certificate for Louise ...... Married in the: house at 3 Partridge Court according to the Rites Ceremonies of the: Jewish Persuasion, by me: [and this name I cannot read] Reader of Synagogue, (Two more lines that might help Louise are:) Maiden Lane Covent Garden Abrm. Colliss Secy Graham Green Western Australia

Hi MArg, Thank you very much for the suggestion. It could well be the right town. I appreciate the feedback. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Cambridge" <talktomarg@shaw.ca> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Place name on 1851 census > How about Hetherset, Norfolk? > Marg >>From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Judith Wolkovitch" <judywolk@mindspring.com> > To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:21 AM > Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Place name on 1851 census > > > There is a family on the 1851 census that I think belong to the tree I am > compiling. The head of the family is Thomas Forster, an Artist in Hair > Jewellery, and he lives on Charlotte Street, St. Pancras, with his wife > Clara and three daughters. He is 50 years old. I am trying to decipher > the > place where he was born. It looks like Heshonset but this is incorrect > and > I would appreciate any suggestions. > > Many thanks, > > Judy Wolkovitch > Los Angeles > > > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How about Hetherset, Norfolk? Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Wolkovitch" <judywolk@mindspring.com> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:21 AM Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] Place name on 1851 census There is a family on the 1851 census that I think belong to the tree I am compiling. The head of the family is Thomas Forster, an Artist in Hair Jewellery, and he lives on Charlotte Street, St. Pancras, with his wife Clara and three daughters. He is 50 years old. I am trying to decipher the place where he was born. It looks like Heshonset but this is incorrect and I would appreciate any suggestions. Many thanks, Judy Wolkovitch Los Angeles

Hi Brian, Firstly, I don't know if this was the mail that was trapped. It's frustrating to me that when people post and it gets rejected they don't know which post is rejected-that's the software, not me. Also sometimes we get "false positives"-things say they are trapped and then they appear on the list. As my mail is so sporadic, I end up not seeing these until the digests by which time I have sometimes told people to send again in plain text! Back to the question: In short NO ERs are NOT on line. Where they are held are patchy too. For example Salford's to about 1974 are in the local studies library and the rest are still at the Civic Centre (City Hall) or they were when I last had cause to search them. Try: Email: staff@swanlib.demon.co.uk Website: http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=6201 Give them the details you have and ask them how much it is for a search or to give you details of a researcher who will search for you. Some libraries, if they have the time and personel, will do a free 30 minute search. Others will charge. Some won't search at all, but will give you contact details of local researchers who will. Maybe someone on this list is going to Swansea and will do a RAOGK (You could try the RAOGK website http://www.raogk.org/wales.htm and see if anyone is offering free or "for costs" look ups at Swansea library). Best Sherry (off to Bury today) [Note to Sherry: Is this the message that didn't get through? Are the Electoral Registers available on-line?

There is a family on the 1851 census that I think belong to the tree I am compiling. The head of the family is Thomas Forster, an Artist in Hair Jewellery, and he lives on Charlotte Street, St. Pancras, with his wife Clara and three daughters. He is 50 years old. I am trying to decipher the place where he was born. It looks like Heshonset but this is incorrect and I would appreciate any suggestions. Many thanks, Judy Wolkovitch Los Angeles

The reader's first name is Woolf. He was enumerated on the 1841 Census as Wolf Peiser, reader living on Greek St. (HO107; Piece 730; Book: 1; Civil Parish: St Anne Soho; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: 5; Page: 2; Line: 15) Regards, Susan McPhedran Bowmanville Married in the: house at 3 Partridge Court according to the Rites Ceremonies of the: Jewish Persuasion, by me: [and this name I cannot read] Reader of Synagogue, (Two more lines that might help Louise are:) Maiden Lane Covent Garden Abrm. Colliss Secy Graham Green Western Australia

Further to my previous on this. The officiant is Wolf Piser who was Reader of the Congregational Amude Yesharim - was the official who conducted the service on occasion of Chief Rabbi's visit in 1845 (this is from the Western Synagogue Book) And the rest should of course read Maiden Lane Synagogue Covent Garden (not Congregation!) Angela

This is my reading - not entirely sure about the name of the 1st officiant Marriage Solemnized at 3 Partridge Court Aldgate Parish of St. Botolph Aldgate Date 4 Jamuary 1845 Groom Jonas Silver, age 25, status bachelor, occupation Translator, Residence at time of marriage 3 Partridge Court. fathers name and surname - dead Bride Kitty Jacobs, age 24, spinster, occupation clothing dealer, residence at time of marriage, same place (ie 3 Partridge Court. fathers name and surname - dead both parties to the marriage are literate and sign their names ( since this is a copy of the cert, these are not their original signatures,but, had they not been able to sign, they would have been shown with an X or, more likely a circle with a dot in the centre. Witnesses are Philip Levy & I Berchat (possibly should be BORCHAT?) Officiants: 1) Woolf Pizer (?) Reader of Synagogue Maiden Lane Congregation London 2) Abraham Collis, secretary - Angela