Sherry, Thanks for the information - I will give the online indexes a quick go before trying other things. Miriam > The registers are at Tower Hamlets. They have online search BUT there is > nothing showing for this name. However, I checked 1892 using COHEN and they > have records, so I suspect they do have the registers. > The Register Office, Bromley Public Hall, Bow Road, London, E3 3AA. > *Tel*: 020 7364 7880. *Fax*: 020 7364 7885. > *E-mail*: register.office@towerhamlets.gov.uk > On-line indexes - Tower Hamlets BMD http://www.thbmd.co.uk/

I got quite a surprise when I obtained a copy of my gg grandads marriage certificate from1859. I already knew that he used both Saul SOLOMONS and Solomon SOLOMONS at different times, (he is shown as Saul on the certificate). What I wasn't prepared for was his fathers name, it is shown as Solomon DAVIS. This was a real surprise. Both were born in Holland and I believe it wasn't unusual for the former Dutch citizens to change their names in England as they were unable to do so in Holland. Does anybody think that Saul is using the Hebrew style of naming as in Saul son of Solomons? Was this common? I am not familiar with Jewish tradition as I am not Jewish. I still don't know where the Saul came from as in both 1841 and 1852 census returns he is shown as Solomon DAVIS the same as his father (he was second son). The others in the family are Solomons wife Rebecca DAVIS and oldest son Isaac and daughter Esther, In 1841 the children are not at the same address as the parents and are living with an Abraham DAVIS, posssibly an uncle. Solomon and Rebecca are living with Rachael MYERS (60)who I think may be Rebeccas mum. Saul married Catherine PHILLIPS in 1859 at the Great Synagogue. Her father is shown as Selig PHILLIPS and the family lived at 10 Swan Court, Aldgate. Catherine is often shown as Kitty. In 1841 the family consists of Selig and wife Ann, sons Barnett, Nathan, Zeadock?, and Phillips and daughters Eliza, Esther and Catherine. They were still at Swan Court in 1851. Selig and Ann are both shown as born in Aldgate about1800 and I believe they were part of the older established Dutch community. Do any of the above names or families mean anything to any of you? Is DAVIS a name used in Holland or was it an Anglicisation of Davids son? DAVIS was one of the family names belonging to the Dutch families established in Aldgate prior to 1800 as was PHILLIPS. Does anybody have any records of when these families arrived in England? Sorry if I have rabbitted on a bit but I would love to trace some descendants of these families. Peter Solomon North Yorkshire

> Re: Registers for the East London Synagogue - 1892 > > Have you thought of obtaining the authorisation? You don't give a date but > the authorisations I have seen ALWAYS give the maiden surname (or previously > married surname). I have seen ones from early 1870s onwards. Yes - thats my next move but because its Shabbos I thought I'd email the Beth Din on Sunday rather than Saturday. > The other thing is, you might want to see if the certificate copy exists at > local level (not GRO/ONS level). I know a lot of London ones don't because > of WW2 bomb damage, but IF it does, the local registrar will do a photocopy > of that part of the certificate for you to see for yourself, if you explain > the position you are in and can quote the direct reference number and date > and place from the certificate (i.e. NOT the GRO ref number). I've got both the date of the marriage (17 January 1892) and the place (East London Synagogue). Do you know whether the records for Mile End still exist - I would assume not, as the east end of London coped a lot of direct hits during WWII, but then again I might be wrong. What do you mean by the 'direct reference number'? Is that the number of the actual certificate (under the number column)? Thanks for your help. Miriam (off to Tescos) Cambridge > > Exciting, isn't it? > Sherry > >

SFERDLIN might be a highly unusual spelling, but Sverdlin, Zverdling, Zwerdling and Swerdlin are more common forms of this well known Jewish name. I wonder if the root is SFARAD - Sephardi (from Spain). Swidler could be an anglicized form..... David Levy Professor, Department of Management University of Massachusetts, Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd., Boston, MA 02125, USA http://www.faculty.umb.edu/david_levy/ -----Original Message----- From: british-jewry-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of jeremy frankel Sent: Sat 3/8/2008 11:40 AM To: British Jewry Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] SWIDLER versus SFERDLIN Miriam Pollak raises several interesting questions concerning her "find" of her great grandmother's last name apparently being SFERDLIN as recorded on the marriage certificate. Naturally she is excited but as always a measure of caution ought to be thrown into the pot. Is this name real? Is it possible there might have been an error. Miriam didn't say whether the certificate was hand-written or typed.

The registers are at Tower Hamlets. They have online search BUT there is nothing showing for this name. However, I checked 1892 using COHEN and they have records, so I suspect they do have the registers. The Register Office, Bromley Public Hall, Bow Road, London, E3 3AA. *Tel*: 020 7364 7880. *Fax*: 020 7364 7885. *E-mail*: register.office@towerhamlets.gov.uk On-line indexes - Tower Hamlets BMD <http://www.thbmd.co.uk/> If you email and give them to details: Date, place, names of both parties and the reference (should be the numbers in the left hand column rather than the certificate number which is in one of the corners (think it's top right but am typing from memory and feeling very senior today!) they should be able to tell you if they have the "first copy" of the entry and what it says. Of course, that doesn't mean that they will have the same as the original marriage book, as errors can occur. Beth Din archivist should be able to tell you who holds the original book (as long as it still exists). It might be at LMA who hold the board of deputies stuff for this shul. Beth Din, in this case, will furnish you with the letter of permission you need to get access. HTH Sherry On 08/03/2008, Miriam Pollak <miriam_pollak@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I've got both the date of the marriage (17 January 1892) and the place > (East London Synagogue). Do you know whether the records for Mile End still > exist - I would assume not, as the east end of London coped a lot of direct > hits during WWII, but then again I might be wrong. What do you mean by the > 'direct reference number'? Is that the number of the actual certificate > (under the number column)? > >

Please can the Hebrew readers take a look at http://www.british-jewry.org.uk/New%20Member%20Area/Digital%20View/digitalview.htm to see what the Hebrew says, for me? Thanks in advance, Sherry Landa (Salford, LAN)

Hello everyone, I am looking for references to Samuel Wolitsky, born c1866 in Warsaw, Poland. Died, 13th August 1918 at 90 Navarino Mansions, Dalston, England. He married Hannah Goschowsky, 1893 at the city of london synagogue. I would like to find information about a cap factory he owned which was burnt down, I am now sure when this happened. I would like to find out about his move to England from Poland, would there be records of this? His boat crossing, where he entered England, and where he stayed when he got here, who he travelled with?? I do have the following, to save anybody looking for info I already have, 1881, 1891, 1901 census records. Thank you for any help you may be able to give, I have previously posted about Samuel Wolitsky, but due to new info I would prefer to draw a line under that previous, very confusing research and start a fresh with purtely trying to find out facts about this person, not trying to second guess what there favourite food is etc....which I was doing before! Thank you again Kirstie Pickles Lancashire, England __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. The World's Favourite Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Miriam Pollak raises several interesting questions concerning her "find" of her great grandmother's last name apparently being SFERDLIN as recorded on the marriage certificate. Naturally she is excited but as always a measure of caution ought to be thrown into the pot. Is this name real? Is it possible there might have been an error. Miriam didn't say whether the certificate was hand-written or typed. Either way, looking on Google for both names, what do we find? For SWIDLER there are over 300,000 hits, and for SFERDLIN, there are - none! I'm not saying this is conclusive, but it is, I think always a good idea when inserting a name into a database to do a broad search just to get a sense of "weight." that is, what is one dealing with, a large number of people with that name or not many at all? For example I am helping someone in California with the last name of ZEAVE, a nice, unusual name. There are only four instances (since 1894) of it appearing in the California Death Index, so I am getting a sense of how often it crops up, the likelihood of my running across it - slim to nothing. And yes, they are all related (two couples). So Miriam should also be careful as well. I'm not saying that this couldn't have been her maiden name, but it does give one a moment for pause when there are NO hits on Google. If I were Miriam, I would check out all the databases on JewishGen, which are more focused towards Jewish names and see if it crops up there. The other thing I usually suggest is to submit the name to a Daitch-Mokotoff Soundex test and see what the variants are (you can do this on JewishGen). After all, there really isn't that much difference between SWIDL and SFERDL parts of the names (remember the W will have a V or F sound to it). It's only the last two letters that are causing the problem. Again, I am helping someone else with the GUTES last name. I was able to show how wildly the spelling can be to obtain similar sounds, GUTES or CHODESH both share the same D-M soundex. Good luck, Jeremy -- Jeremy G Frankel ex Edgware, London, England Berkeley, California, USA EBIN: Russia, New York, USA FRANKEL: Poland, London, England GOLDRATH/GOLD: Praszka, Poland, London, England KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania, London, England, NYC, NY, USA LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland, London, England PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland, London, England, NYC, NY, USA

Dear Listers, Recently because of a request by Bea from London, I have had another look at my great-grandparents information and to start went on-line and ordered their marriage record from the General Register Office. Two things struck me straight away - firstly they had his first name wrong - Hyman instead of Abraham (did this mean that the wedding should have been for his elder brother Hyman, but Abraham stood in instead?). The mis-spelling of the surname did not worry me quite as much. Then I got the shock of my life. For the last twenty odd years I had known my great-grandmother's maiden name as SWIDLER, yet there it was on the certificate as SFERDLIN. The first thing I did was put "East London Synagogue" into the web and it told me that they were being held at Southampton University Library. Well, according to the librarian that replied to my email, they are not, only some of the papers, but not the marriage register. How do I get to see the original register? Does anyone know? How can I find out what the actual register says for her maiden name? I have all sorts of questions going around in my mind and was hoping that someone out there could help me with this. Miriam Searching for the family Sabel who arrived in England 1890s

Hi Miriam, Have you thought of obtaining the authorisation? You don't give a date but the authorisations I have seen ALWAYS give the maiden surname (or previously married surname). I have seen ones from early 1870s onwards. The other thing is, you might want to see if the certificate copy exists at local level (not GRO/ONS level). I know a lot of London ones don't because of WW2 bomb damage, but IF it does, the local registrar will do a photocopy of that part of the certificate for you to see for yourself, if you explain the position you are in and can quote the direct reference number and date and place from the certificate (i.e. NOT the GRO ref number) Exciting, isn't it? Sherry On 07/03/2008, Miriam Pollak <miriam_pollak@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Then I got the shock of my life. For the last twenty odd years I had > known my great-grandmother's maiden name as SWIDLER, yet there it was on the > certificate as SFERDLIN. The first thing I did was put "East London > Synagogue" into the web and it told me that they were being held at > Southampton University Library. Well, according to the librarian that > replied to my email, they are not, only some of the papers, but not the > marriage register. > > How do I get to see the original register? Does anyone know? How can I > find out what the actual register says for her maiden name? I have all > sorts of questions going around in my mind and was hoping that someone out > there could help me with this. > >

| |-3. Moss JACOBS (b.Abt 1875-London) > | | sp: Sarah LAZARUS > Luana in CA, USA > > Hi Luana I have a Sarah LAZARUS born 19/5/1870 Liverpool Lancaster, haven't found a marriage for her yet? Janis

Hi Luana, Do you know we have a surnames list for this very thing? Have a look and see who else on list is looking at these names and/or submit your names so other people who are browsing can see you are interested in these names. http://www.british-jewry.org.uk/Surnames.htm Look forward to receiving your submission (and anyone else's submission or update). Sherry (still in Salford) On 05/03/2008, LS <mygen@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Hi List, > > My husband's ancestors have been hard enough to trace and even harder to > connect to other surnames that connect, yet I know they do.

Does anyone have access to the Book Records of the Western Synagogue 1761 - 1932 by Cecil Roth. I have a copy of the later book The Western Synagogue through two centuries 1761 - 1961 by Arthur Barnett. In the back of this book is an appendix of all the records that Cecil Roth collected in 1932, including Burial Register 1815 to 1874. I would dearly love to find out if a David Isaacs was in the register (died between 1835 and 1841 I think) and an Elizabeth Isaacs died 1860 and if it mentions their Hebrew Names. If anyone has access to this book could they look this up for me, would be extremly grateful. Thanks Debs Debbie Bozkurt Outer Hebrides Cold but Sunny Scotland

Hi List, My husband's ancestors have been hard enough to trace and even harder to connect to other surnames that connect, yet I know they do. Anyone else had this problem? Let me guess the answer to that one! I've been seeing so many of my husband's ancestors surnames come up on this list that I can't keep them straight. I'll start my first inquiry with the Jacobs line which is a direct line to my husband's ancestry. Then I'll expand and inquire on other surnames as I have time (I work). Here's what I have in my database regarding the Jacobs line (although there is more info not yet in my database, so please ask if you think there might be a connection): Descendants of Jacob JACOBS 04 Mar 2008 ====================================================================================================================== 1. Jacob JACOBS sp: UNKNOWN |-2. Isaac JACOBS (b.Abt 1831-Poland) | sp: Esther DAVIS (b.Abt 1825-Poland) | |-3. Elizabeth JACOBS (b.Abt 1855-St Botolph Aldgate,London) | | sp: Simon JACOBS (b.Abt 1851 m.06 Sep 1876) | | +-4. Miriam JACOBS (b.Abt 1879-St George in the East,Middlesex) | |-3. Jacob JACOBS (b.Abt 1857-St Botolph Aldgate,London) | |-3. Simon JACOBS (b.Abt 1859-St Botolph Aldgate,London) | | sp: Sophia COHEN (d.Abt 1894) | | sp: Augusta CLEAVER (m.Abt 1895) | |-3. Marks JACOBS (b.Abt 1861-Whitechapel,London) | |-3. Millie JACOBS (b.Abt 1866-Whitechapel,London) | |-3. Deborah JACOBS (b.15 Feb 1868-Whitechapel,London) | | sp: Harry SHAW (b.Abt 1872-Austria? m.22 Oct 1893) | | |-4. Isaac SHAW (b.18 Jan 1895-Mile End New Town,London) | | |-4. Miriam SHAW (b.18 Dec 1900-Fulham,London) | | +-4. Sidney SHAW (b.25 Apr 1904-Fulham,London) | |-3. Samuel JACOBS (b.Abt 1870-Whitechapel,London) | |-3. Fanny JACOBS (b.Abt 1873-London) | |-3. Moss JACOBS (b.Abt 1875-London) | | sp: Sarah LAZARUS | | |-4. Isaac JACOBS (b.Abt 1893-St George in the East,Middlesex) | | |-4. Abraham JACOBS (b.Abt 1895-City Of London) | | |-4. Esther JACOBS (b.Abt 1899-Whitechapel,England) | | +-4. Lizzie JACOBS (b.Abt 1901-Whitechapel,England) | +-3. Henry JACOBS (b.Abt 1877-London) |-2. Hyam/Hyman JACOBS (b.Abt 1834-Poland) | sp: Harriett FRIEDMAN (b.Abt 1833-Poland m.08 Jul 1857) | |-3. Rebecca JACOBS (b.Abt 1860-St Botolph Aldgate,London) | +-3. Sarah JACOBS (b.Jan 1858-Poland-Russia) | sp: Morris SAMUEL (b.Jan 1856-East London Co,Middlesex,London m.19 Feb 1879) | |-4. Henry/Handig Charles SAMUEL (b.Sep 1878-England) | | sp: Fannie UNKNOWN (b.Abt 1882-NY m.Abt 1904) | | |-5. Murray L. SAMUEL (b.19 May 1906-NY d.10 Feb 1994-NY) | | +-5. Sidney SAMUEL (b.Abt 1911-NY) | |-4. Samuel Alfred SAMUEL (b.Aug 1881-England d.Jun 1970-Lake Worth,Palm Beach,FL) | | sp: Gertrude (b.Abt 1888-NY m.Abt 1915) | |-4. Charles SAMUEL (b.09 Jan 1885-England) | | sp: Minnie BASSERT (b.Abt 1886-NY m.09 Feb 1908) | | |-5. Ethel SAMUEL (b.Abt Jan 1909) | | |-5. Miriam SAMUEL (b.Abt 1917-NY) | | +-5. Jannette SAMUEL (b.Abt 1921-NY) | |-4. Abraham SAMUEL (b.27 Apr 1887-NY d.Mar 1966-NY) | | sp: Ella (b.Abt 1893-Russia m.Abt 1912) | | |-5. Mae/May SAMUEL (b.Abt 1914-NY) | | | sp: RIBACK | | +-5. Irma SAMUEL (b.Abt 1921-NY) | | sp: PHILLIPS | +-4. Jacob SAMUEL (b.16 Mar 1889-NY d.Oct 1969-NY) | sp: Lillie (b.Abt 1890-Russia m.Abt 1914) | |-5. Rosalyn SAMUEL (b.Abt 1914-NY) | +-5. Sadie SAMUEL (b.Abt 07 Jun 1915-NY) +-2. Hannah JACOBS (b.Abt 1841-Poland) sp: Myer FISHLER (m.11 Mar 1863) As I said, I have other info/surnames not yet in my database, so if you even think there is a possible connection, please e-mail me. The surnames that are currently included in my database are: JACOBS DAVIS COHEN CLEAVER SHOR / SHAW LAZARUS FRIEDMAN SAMUEL / SAMUELS (LONDON & NY, USA) CHANGED TO SAMUELS IN THE USA BASSERT (NY, USA) RIBACK (NY, USA) PHILLIPS (NY, USA) FISHLER Thanks in advance for looking and any responses. Luana in CA, USA

Shalom all genners interested in Leeds phone numbers, The Alwoodly number would be : ++44-1132- plus rest of the digits. All the best, from a very wild southern Israel, Brenda Habshush, Negev. . . DISCLAIMER: This mail message was scanned for malicious content by Quality Bytes Mail Security when leaving the gateway of Quality Bytes http://qb.q-bytes.com/qbms/?c=qb .

Hello Listers Please cancel my request - I now have the answer. I can't even transcribe a phone number properly these days.............. Naomi

Hello Listers I'm looking for some advice please. I want to call a relative who lives in Alwoodley, Leeds. I have a phone number but the message I receive when dialling the number is along the lines of "The network is unavailable". Methinks I have missed out something. From Australia I am dialling +44 326 and then 5 further digits (not repeated here for privacy reasons). Should there be something between the 44 and 326? Many thanks. Naomi Barnett Melbourne, Australia

Hi, Does anyone have a HARRIS JACOBS in their family ? He was born in Russia/Poland c1870. Married SARAH SCHWEITZER 1894 London. Their children were MARY born c1896 St. George's East, Deborah b 1898 Whitechapel, GOLDA b 1900 Mile End, Beatrice b 1902 Mile End & ROSA b May 1908. There could be other children. If anyone recognises these names, could you please get in touch. I have information on GOLDA & ROSA, but I havn't yet found marriages or descendants from the others. Thanks Carole (Hereford)

I have a tree for a Jacobs family which commences with Elias Rypinski Jacobs and his wife Henriette Leisersohn who were married in 1833. I don't know where this marriage took place and apart from the date of marriage no other dates are shown on the tree. A granddaughter of this couple married Isaac Isaacs, later Governor General of Australia and their two daughters married men of my Cohen/Levy family. The Australian Dictionary of Biography is freely available online but Isaac's entry doesn't show much family information. My two 3 x gt grandmothers Sarah/Sierlah and Martha were sisters the daughters of Eleazer/Eliezer Levy. Sierlah married Barnett/Burnett/Baruch Cohen and Martha married Benjamin Wolfe Levy who died in 1829. I am sure there was more than one Eleazer Levy in London at the time and I have no indication of who his brother might have been. One of Martha's sons was David Levy later Lewis of Lewis's stores in Liverpool and Birmingham etc. The Cohen family has been connected to a very wealthy London family of that name, but there is no documentary evidence of this and they would appear to have moved in very different circles. I wouldn't rely on the Colyer Fergusson tree. Dinah Harvey Sydney Australia

I am a Cohen/Levy descendant, Woolf and Martha Levy and Sarah and Barnet Cohen being my 3 x gt grandparents. Although a well-known family tree shows Dore or Dove Levy and her husband Lewis being the father of Woolf (sometimes Benjamin Woolf Levy) this is not so. I have Dore's cert of death (1842) which states her to be aged 42. Benjamin Woolf Levy husband of Martha died in 1829 the father of 4 children born between 1815 and 1823. There is a will for Benjamin W and also for Lewis husband of Dore. There is too much to go into here but if anyone wants more detail email me. Also a well known tree lists my family with the Levy of Daily Telegraph fame, and I think I can conclusively prove this to be incorrect. Pity! Dinah Harvey Sydney Australia