In a message dated 5/23/2008 5:44:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aelfassi51@yahoo.com writes: Brian, It might have been required to take out passports in country of origin - there is a site there to check that out (am I allowed to mention JewishGen), you might want to do a search there using CHAJKIELSON name on Soundex. Good luck Angie Israel PS - Did I snip enough? Thanks, Angie, but I've been a member of Jewishgen since its inception, and there is no luck there on this particular person. I am sure the document in question was created because it was needed in England or Wales to prove birth. Brian **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

Brian, It might have been required to take out passports in country of origin - there is a site there to check that out (am I allowed to mention JewishGen), you might want to do a search there using CHAJKIELSON name on Soundex. Good luck Angie Israel  PS - Did I snip enough?   Searching: RAYKH-ZELIGMAN/RICHMAN, Stakliskes, Lithuania/Leeds COHEN, Sakiai, Lithuania/Leeds MAGIDOWITZ, Jurbarkas, Lithuania/Leeds KASSIMOFF, Rezekne, Latvia/Leeds ----- Original Message ---- From: "ENFJBri@aol.com" ENFJBri@aol.com Hello, Listers! I have reason to believe  that my wife's paternal grandfather, Jacob BARNETT (born Jankel Girsz  CHAJKIELSON), was naturalized circa 1928, but no proof.    Why else  would they need sworn affidavits in lieu of birth certificates?) Thanks  for any suggestions. Brian Neil Burg Fullerton, CA,  USA ENFJBri@aol.com

Received from the generousity of the list admin for GLA __________________________________________________________________ In the 'Cambrian' newspaper dated 31st January 1879, page 5, there is a detailed account of the wedding at Goat Street Synagogue, Swansea of Mr Morris FREEDMAN, South African Merchant, and Miss Jenny FREEDMAN, of 17 Northampton Place Swansea, daughter of the late Mr S. FREEDMAN of Dowlais. Surnames appearing among the bridesmaids and guests, who came from as far afield as Tredegar, Cardiff, Newport, Gloucester, Bristol and London, were JACOBS, LYONS, BLAIBERG, BIRNSTEIN, RAPHAEL, COHEN, HARRIS and PRAG, as well as FREEDMAN. The Rabbi was Rev LEVENSON, who conducted the ceremony in Hebrew but gave an address of helpful advice to the bride and groom in English. Apparently crowds wanting to see the event were so numerous that three policemen were needed to control them, and to ensure that only guests with tickets were allowed in, including the newspaper reporter. The 'Cambrian' local newspaper has a searchable index on-line from 1804 to about 1877 at www.swansea.gov.uk/cambrian . It will probably be a few months before this item appears in the index. Copies of the newspaper on microfilm are held at West Glamorgan Archives and at Colindale Newspaper Library, and bound volumes of a number of years including 1879 at Swansea Museum, though prior appointment is necessary to see the latter. Jeff list admin, Glamorgan list

Hello Listers - and 'Madams Moderator' Sherry & Jackye I have a VERY DEEP BASKET!! This is just the Berzynski/Barnett Basket. Naomi Melbourne, Orstralia Just the one basket, Naomi? You must be doing a lot better than me! Sherry

Dear Listers, In time for the Holiday Weekend! We have just completed* The Western Synagogue (Brompton) Cemetery at Queens Elm Fulham. Over 500 stones have been photographed and transliterated. Many of those buried in this ground were prominent persons, both within the Jewish community and in the wider society beyond. Where possible, we have added details of spouses and children, using corroborative sources such as census returns, wills and Jewish Chronicle announcements. We have also been able to make links with family members interred in Brady Street and Edmonton Western. *We are still working on a few, remaining very worn, stones. We will do our best but, in some cases, time and the elements have taken their toll, leaving little, if any, trace of the original inscription: a stark reminder, if it were needed, of the importance of recording these memorials before even more are lost for all time. Two more cemeteries have been photographed and are currently being prepared for uploading onto the site _www.genpals.com_ (http://www.genpals.com/) and we have plans for two or three more, at least one of which we hope to complete this year. We will also be going back over some of the earlier stones from Brady Street and, where possible, adding additional data from the Hebrew inscriptions. Our thanks to the many people who have contacted us via the on-site link: your comments have been much appreciated. Regards Angela Shire & Gaby Laws

In a message dated 5/21/2008 10:51:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jill.whitehead@blueyonder.co.uk writes: "In regard to the Hebrew name for Harris I have several ancestors called Hirsch who subsequently became Harris. Not sure if this name is Hebrew or Yiddish?" Hirsch is Yiddish and German. It means a "stag"--a male deer. The female form is Hinda--a "doe." At a certain point in time in German lands, Jews were forbidden by law to give their children Hebrew names. Some of them got around this rule by assigning names based on Biblical metaphors. One passage in the Old Testament compares a person named Naftali to a deer--"He was as swift as a deer," or something like that. So, instead of giving the child the Hebrew name Naftali, he was given the name "Hirsch" which was a deer in German and Yiddish, and, to the German ear, didn't sound like a Jewish name. There are a lot of animal names among Ashkenazi Jews for this reason. Brian Neil Burg Fullerton, CA, USA P.S. Herschel is a diminutive form. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

Dear Listers Thanks to all the kind people who took the time to write and give their suggestions regarding my question about a usual Hebrew equivalent for the first name Harris. I was trying to connect a person with a similar surname to our family but the Hebrew names don't match. I shall have to file the information in the basket marked 'perhaps one day this piece will fit.....'. Naomi Barnett Melbourne, Australia <<Can someone please tell me if there is a usual Hebrew equivalent for the first name Harris?>>

In regard to the Hebrew name for Harris I have several ancestors called Hirsch who subsequently became Harris. Not sure if this name is Hebrew or Yiddish? In regard to Electoral Registration, only in 1918 could all men and women over the age of 30 vote in a general election (to vote for an MP). Women over the age of 21 could not vote until 1928. Before 1918 the qualification to vote was owning land/property above a certain value. However, men and women could vote in local municipal elections towards the end of the 19th century. Most public libraries and local authorities have copies of old voting registers. For Swansea the local authority is a Unitary authority called the City and County of Swansea - www.swansea.gov.uk <http://www.swansea.gov.uk/> Jill Whitehead

Just the one basket, Naomi? You must be doing a lot better than me! Sherry On 21/05/2008, Merv & Naomi Barnett <barnett@netspace.net.au> wrote: > > I was trying to connect a person with a similar surname to our family > but the Hebrew names don't match. I shall have to file the information > in the basket marked 'perhaps one day this piece will fit.....'.

Having just received my Digest, Vol 3, Issue 197 I have put the list on emergency moderation. I am SICK and TIRED (yes, I am shouting) of asking people to be responsible about subject lines and snipping messages in reply. If you can't sort yourselves out, I will. As of now, EVERY message to list will have to be approved by either Jackye or myself. This will lead to delays. Anyone attempting to send messages with digest anything as a subject line or who fails to snip messages correctly will be transferred to indefinite moderation. This list will remain moderated for 48 hours. On Friday afternoon (GMT) Jackye and I will decide if we should continue moderating or allow you to take back the responsibility you should have. I sincerely apologise to all the list members who do snip and think about their subject lines for the Draconian measures I feel forced to take... Yours in abject despair, Sherry

I have a recollection of callin my friend HERSCHEL. Try that On 5/20/08, Merv & Naomi Barnett <barnett@netspace.net.au> wrote: > > Hello Listers > > Can someone please tell me if there is a usual Hebrew equivalent for the > first name Harris? > > > Many thanks > > Naomi Barnett > Melbourne, Australia > Our website is at > www.british-jewry.org.uk > We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. > > British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- All the best Lou Dias 87 Grange Crescent, Chigwell, Essex IG7 5JD United Kingdom... Tel 07941492538

Hi Naomi If anyone comes back to you offlist with an answer, I would be interested to know this too, as have a paternal great uncle now deceased with the same name and I have no current connections with his family (though strangely enough, I believe his daughter Hannah may have married someone called Barnett!) best regards Kathy Cameron Glasgow Scotland -----Original Message----- From: british-jewry-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:british-jewry-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Merv & Naomi Barnett Sent: 20 May 2008 13:54 To: British Jewry Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] What is the Hebrew equivalent of Harris? Hello Listers Can someone please tell me if there is a usual Hebrew equivalent for the first name Harris? Many thanks Naomi Barnett Melbourne, Australia Our website is at www.british-jewry.org.uk We update regularly. Let us know if you have ideas to offer. British-Jewry-admin@rootsweb.com is the address to use for help. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

OOPs! You are right. The page is ready in my file, but I am awaiting someone's confirmation that they are still available. I will pass your message on to the looker-upperer! Sherry On 21/05/2008, ENFJBri@aol.com <ENFJBri@aol.com> wrote: > Thanks, Sherry! Actually, I do have an address. When I went to the Look-Up > Exchange part of the website, though, it said it was being revamped and to > write to the webmaster, which, I gather, is you! So, here's the info and the > request:

Naomi Usually Zvi (Hebrew) or Hirsch ( Yiddish) - can be used in relation to the first name Harris. However, there is no "prescribed equivalent", and there would be other alternatives. Terry Newman Sydney, Australia >

Hello Listers Can someone please tell me if there is a usual Hebrew equivalent for the first name Harris? Many thanks Naomi Barnett Melbourne, Australia

In a message dated 5/20/2008 5:17:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, indplbry@triwest.net writes: Would either Hirsch or Zvi also apply to the surname Harris? ********************** It might, but did you see my earlier posting about how one of my relatives changed the surname KHARATZ (usually "Charatz" in the U.S.) to HARRIS? (The same surname sometimes appears as Harats or Haratz in the U.S. and Israel.) I would say that just about anything that remotely sounds like Harris could end up becoming Harris in an English-speaking environment. Brian Neil Burg Fullerton, CA, USA **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

Thanks, Sherry! Actually, I do have an address. When I went to the Look-Up Exchange part of the website, though, it said it was being revamped and to write to the webmaster, which, I gather, is you! So, here's the info and the request: Name: Jacob BARNETT (aka Jack BARNETT), born 1883 (in Suwalki, Poland--then Russia). Residence in May, 1927: 55 Western Street, Swansea, Wales Residence in February, 1929: 18 Victoria Terrace, Swansea, Wales Can you hook me up with someone who could check to see if Jacob Barnett appears on any electoral register in Swansea for 1928 or thereafter? My goal is to determine whether or not he ever became a British citizen and, if so, approximately when he was naturalized--all in order to obtain naturalization documents (which do not appear in the online archives). Brian Neil Burg Fullerton, CA, USA In a message dated 5/20/2008 8:43:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sherry.landa@wanadoo.fr writes: To find a voter you need an electoral register. Data was collected each October to appear in the next year's electoral register. These are organised by electoral ward and then by street. You need to know a street address. Swansea, even then, was a big city. You might well need to know what area of Swansea in case there are several streets with the same name. If you have a street address try our Look Up Exchange (see www.british-jewry.org.uk then members' area) as we have someone willing to search for Welsh records. Passports spring to mind as a time when you were required to prove birth dates and places. I am not sure whether you had to actually prove births for naturalisations. I suspect you didn't. You signed a statement to certify the details you gave were true...not sure these were ever checked but others are more knowledgeable on the legalities than me. best wishes, Sherry (in Salford, LAN) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

----- Original Message ----- From: <british-jewry-request@rootsweb.com> To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:47 PM Subject: BRITISH-JEWRY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 196 > Would either Hirsch or Zvi also apply to the surname Harris? > > If you wish to change the format of this digest please email > british-jewry-admin@rootsweb.com (put digest format in the subject line) > When you reply please remember to make the subject line appropriate and to > snip everything but the original message body-thanks! > > Today's Topics: > > 1. What is the Hebrew equivalent of Harris? (Merv & Naomi Barnett) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:53:57 +1000 > From: Merv & Naomi Barnett <barnett@netspace.net.au> > Subject: [BRITISH-JEWRY] What is the Hebrew equivalent of Harris? > To: British Jewry <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <4832C9E5.5060705@netspace.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hello Listers > > Can someone please tell me if there is a usual Hebrew equivalent for the > first name Harris? > > > Many thanks > > Naomi Barnett > Melbourne, Australia > > > > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 23:36:51 +1000 > From: "Terry Newman" <tnewman@wix.com.au> > Subject: Re: [BRITISH-JEWRY] What is the Hebrew equivalent of Harris? > To: <british-jewry@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <020501c8ba7e$8f7dc890$045554cb@TERRY> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Naomi > > Usually Zvi (Hebrew) or Hirsch ( Yiddish) - can be used in relation to the > first name Harris. However, there is no "prescribed equivalent", and > there > would be other alternatives. > > Terry Newman > Sydney, Australia >> > > > >> > To contact the BRITISH-JEWRY list administrator, send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the BRITISH-JEWRY mailing list, send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BRITISH-JEWRY-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of BRITISH-JEWRY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 196 > *********************************************

To find a voter you need an electoral register. Data was collected each October to appear in the next year's electoral register. These are organised by electoral ward and then by street. You need to know a street address. Swansea, even then, was a big city. You might well need to know what area of Swansea in case there are several streets with the same name. If you have a street address try our Look Up Exchange (see www.british-jewry.org.uk then members' area) as we have someone willing to search for Welsh records. Passports spring to mind as a time when you were required to prove birth dates and places. I am not sure whether you had to actually prove births for naturalisations. I suspect you didn't. You signed a statement to certify the details you gave were true...not sure these were ever checked but others are more knowledgeable on the legalities than me. best wishes, Sherry (in Salford, LAN) On 20/05/2008, ENFJBri@aol.com <ENFJBri@aol.com> wrote: > So, my question is: how can I find post-1928 voter registration lists for the town of Swansea, Wales, which is where he lived at least between 1907 and WWII? > > Why else would they need sworn affidavits in lieu of birth certificates? >

Hello, Listers! I have reason to believe that my wife's paternal grandfather, Jacob BARNETT (born Jankel Girsz CHAJKIELSON), was naturalized circa 1928, but no proof. I have not been able to find any naturalization records for him. I remember reading on this list sometime in the past that a good indication of naturalization is whether or not a person appeared on voter registration lists. So, my question is: how can I find post-1928 voter registration lists for the town of Swansea, Wales, which is where he lived at least between 1907 and WWII? (My 1928 presumption is based upon a curious pair of documents which were passed to us from my wife's uncle. They are sworn affidavits in Polish, from the town of Suwalki, by witnesses who knew the family, which state that although no birth records exist for my wife's grandfather and grandmother, they were nevertheless born in a particular village near Suwalki on specific dates. It seems to me that these documents were needed in order for my wife's grandparents to prove their birth dates and origins in connection with some official government action--most probably naturalization. Why else would they need sworn affidavits in lieu of birth certificates?) Thanks for any suggestions. Brian Neil Burg Fullerton, CA, USA ENFJBri@aol.com **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)